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The theory that conquered the scrolls

Suknik's long night, the charismatic researchers and the religious expectations of the general public. This is how one "sexy" theory took over (easily, quickly and elegantly) the exciting and controversial discovery of the Judean desert scrolls

A passage from one of the Qumran scrolls. From Wikipedia
A passage from one of the Qumran scrolls. From Wikipedia

Edna Ullman-Margalit

Great archaeological discoveries create magnificent myths and the discovery of the Qumran Scrolls in the Judean Desert was a particularly dramatic discovery. More than sixty years have passed since the discovery and the storm surrounding the scrolls continues and sometimes even increases.

The excitement is not only academic. The story of the scrolls involves emotions, interests, religious considerations and mystical hints. As in the famous "Curse of the Pharaohs" story, the fate of some of the pioneers of the research of the hidden scrolls was also bitter - some of them ended their lives as alcoholics and others were hospitalized in psychiatric hospitals. Developments of the last few months include an exchange of accusations between contemporary scroll researchers, which may lead to a high-profile criminal trial in the US. The study of the buried scrolls from the Judean desert is an exciting and dramatic field of study, an unusual combination of brilliant scholarship with far-fetched ideas, of conspiracies, scandals, passions and conspiracies. This powerful combination captures in its web the researchers, the media and the general public alike.

It is difficult to exaggerate the level of expectations created with the discovery. The discovery of the scrolls was hailed by many as the most sensational archaeological discovery of the 20th century. For the first time, evidence has been revealed that makes it possible to shine a new and direct light on one of the most important historical periods in the history of Western culture - the century in which Christianity was born and the Jewish rebellion ended with the Roman occupation of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple. This is a period that shaped the two main religious movements in Western culture: Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism.

Panic for the scrolls

In the spring of 1947, the Bedouin shepherd Muhammad al-Dib of the Timra tribe randomly discovered ancient scrolls hidden in jars in a cave in the Judean desert, near Khirbat Qumran on the northwestern shore of the Dead Sea. It is said that one of the goats was trapped in a cave, and in the rescue attempt A-Div discovered the first scroll.

This discovery led to a "panic for the scrolls" by Bedouins and archaeologists alike. Until 1956, scrolls were discovered in ten additional caves: some of them were preserved almost intact and in full length (about six-seven meters) along with tens of thousands of other pieces and fragments. Most of the texts were written in ink, on the hairy side of even thinner sheets. Although many of them have been remarkably preserved in the dry desert conditions, there is still great variation in the degree of preservation and the length of the sections.

Today we know that the collection of fragments found represents over 900 books belonging to about 300 different compositions, many of which have been preserved in multiple copies. About 200 texts from the collection are biblical compositions, predating by at least a thousand years the earliest known Hebrew biblical manuscript until the discovery of the scrolls. The other texts are not biblical. The vast majority of them are written in Hebrew, and the rest in Aramaic and Greek; Most of the non-biblical compositions were not known before the discovery of the scrolls.

The design of these scrolls reveals a picture of a radical, fanatical and isolated sect, which was immediately labeled as having class characteristics. For example, the scroll "Serach HaHad" contains detailed descriptions of the rites of acceptance into the community, of its communal life, of the common meals and frequent purification baptisms, of the penal code that was introduced for cases of breaking rules and disciplinary offenses, and many other rules.

In the scroll "The War of the Children of Light in the Children of Darkness" instructions are detailed for the war of the end of days, which will last forty years and in which the people of the tribe, who are the "children of light", will fight against their enemies the "children of darkness". The essay describes the military equipment, the structure of the troops, the battle plans and the rules of combat, and details the war prayers conducted by the "chief priest".

Another composition found in Cave 1, "Pasher Habakkuk", is a first example of a literary genre that was not known until the discovery of the scrolls. The pashar opens with an exact quotation of verses from the Bible and later, in an attempt to show how the biblical prophecies were fulfilled, it interprets the quoted text while relating it to the contemporary historical reality of the author of the pashar, as well as to the principles of faith and the worldview of the members of the community. As one of the well-known scholars of the scrolls, the Jesuit Joseph Fitzmeyer, states, "This is therefore a distinct class connection, which was not common even among Jewish circles outside of this community. The interpretation was written out of the conviction that the words of the ancient prophet refer not only to his own time, but to the life of this community."

In the Christian world the spirits were felt. The texts may have testified to the sensitive points of departure between the community of scroll writers and the first Christians and the period when Christianity split from Judaism. In the Jewish world, on the other hand, expectations regarding the potential inherent in the scrolls will be shaken - mainly due to the chance to fill part of the centuries-old "black hole" that has opened up in the Hebrew written sources from the last books of the Bible to the external books and the Mishnah and Talmud literature.

As in any scientific field, an archaeological discovery requires theory and interpretation. An archaeological find, however sharp it may be, does not "speak for itself". Even when it comes to texts, researchers must place the text in a meaningful cultural, social and historical context. Even today, after more than six decades of intensive research, and after the enormous - and scandalous - project of publishing all the texts was completed, many of the questions surrounding the scrolls remain unsolved puzzles and the theories proposed to solve them are controversial.

Who composed the scrolls? Are and how are the scrolls related to the Qumran site that was discovered near the caves? What is the site of Qumran and who exactly lived there? To which sect did the writers of the scrolls (or some of them) belong? These are just a few of the series of questions that also concern a cluster of abstract ideas - purity, poverty, messiahship, the end of days, predestination - which had a far-reaching effect on the first Christians, and therefore have tremendous cultural significance for the history of Western culture. The answers to these important questions require a comprehensive theory about the story of the scrolls and their characteristics.

The leading thesis: the Qumran-Isiat theory

The main theory that dominates the study of the buried scrolls from the early days, and which concerns the unknown origin of the scrolls, is known as the Qumran-Isiat hypothesis. This hypothesis ties a close connection between the three vertices of the Megillat-Essene-Qumran triangle. The theory is based on two simple but crucial assertions: 1. The scrolls discovered in the 11 caves in the Dead Sea region belonged to the Essenes. 2. The center of Ha'im Ha'ayyim was at the nearby Hirbat Qumran site, which functioned as a community-religious center.

The speed with which the central theory was formulated and accepted is noteworthy. According to the accepted mythological version, only a few hours passed from the moment the archaeologist Eliezer Lipa Soknik received the first scrolls in his hands until he formulated the principles of the central theory. It happened in the dead of night, on the 1947th of November XNUMX, the night of the vote at the United Nations on the approval of the partition plan for the Land of Israel.

The scrolls that were brought to his house constituted a successful sample of four of the first seven scrolls found in Cave 1. As soon as he read for the first time a number of paragraphs from the first scroll, which would later be called "Sarach HaHad", Soknik made the hypothesis that identifies the authors of the scroll with the Essene sect. This hypothesis spread easily and was immediately and unquestionably accepted as a qualified hypothesis, which in fact also applies to the other scrolls discovered in Cave 1.

This is how the hard core of the Qumran-Isiat hypothesis, which dominates the study of the scrolls to this day, was established. The immediacy of the diagnosis, as well as the ease with which it was received, is particularly noteworthy considering the fact that the label "Essene" is not mentioned even once in the Serach HaHad scroll or in any other scroll in the collection.

Soknik, the father of the commander, statesman and archaeologist Yigal Yedin, was undoubtedly an expert in his field and a first-rate archaeological authority, which still does not fully explain the speed with which the theory was universally accepted. The explanation he offered apparently corresponded to a complete and broad set of interests, beliefs, feelings and expectations, which enabled a global consensus in accepting the theory.

It must be admitted that the initial testimony that led to the identification was impressive. There is a striking and unusual similarity between the descriptions of the Essenes sect given to us in the writings of the first century historians (Josephus, Philo and Pliny) and the content of the paragraphs from Serach HaHad, which Soknik read for the first time on that historic night.

The similarity concerns a long series of characteristics of the organization of community life, the main points of faith and the conduct of the sect. This is what Yedin wrote, after giving in detail Josephus's descriptions of the Essene sect: "Behold, many are the matters that correspond in their identity to those we have learned about the customs of the sect. The Essenes abstained from meat pleasures and saw conquest as a great virtue. They are fed up with a life of wealth... When they come to eat on Shabbat, they will do so in a special ceremony and the priest is the one who conducts the meal ceremony... The new members who join the Issei are not accepted into the group unless they have passed a certain trial period, as we learned in the Serach Hichad."

How is a scientific theory obtained?

From the perspective of the philosophy of science, the speed with which the Qumran-Isiat theory was announced on that dramatic night is not an unusual problem, and there is nothing in the story in itself to impugn the theory. An important distinction for our purposes here is the one between the context of discovery - the way in which a scientific hypothesis emerged and the context of justification - the way in which the theory is proven and accepted. A scientific hypothesis can be reached in different ways. The process by which a person comes to the discovery of a scientific theory is subjective in its essence and can be hasty, accidental, delusional, stupid, influenced by the wishes of the heart, or the result of ideology or superstition.

The mere fact that a theory is revealed to someone in a dream at night is no guarantee of its truth - but at the same time it is no guarantee that it is nonsense. The question of whether the proposed theory is true or not, is a question of justifying the theory, corroborating or verifying it - and here the story is completely different. The submission of a hypothesis to the test should be done subject to strict standards agreed upon by all members of the scientific community; It should be inter-subjective and free of any ideology or agenda.

Therefore, for our purposes, the fact that the passages that Suknik deciphered on the night of the XNUMXth of November reminded him of the corresponding passages from Josephus' book The War of the Jews in the Romans, as well as the fact that it was only a few accidental passages and that everything happened quickly, does not invalidate the hypothesis that he formulated in that place according to The scrolls are Asian. But what are the sufficient proofs to convince an entire scientific community that the theory is true? This is a completely different question.

The flaws and problems in the central theory
The main theory that links the scrolls to Issim and the site of Qumran bought her an extraordinary status from the moment she came into the world. The theory is used as a research default theory: as long as it is not proven otherwise, the Essene-Kumran theory is perceived as the dominant and authoritative theory in relation to the question of the origin of the scrolls. In other words, unless another theory completely wins you over, you stick with the Essene-Kumran theory, even if you think it has problems and flaws or is not very attractive.

Indeed, the main theory has problems and flaws that cannot be brushed aside just because of the determination or charisma of its supporters. Here are some examples:

Despite striking similarities between what Josephus tells us about the Essenes and what some of the scrolls tell us about the scroll community, there are also gaps that are difficult to reconcile. For example, if the site was indeed used as a religious center of the Essene sect for more than a hundred years, how do we explain the fact that Josephus does not refer to any Essene settlement on the shores of the Dead Sea in his writings? And how do we explain the fact that when Josephus describes the Essenes, he does not mention the idea of ​​"preordained destiny", which is one of the foundations of faith of the scroll community?

Another difficult problem is related to the tablet and worship. According to the discovered writings, the community of the scrolls used a solar calendar which created a sharp separation between it and the majority of the Jewish community who used a lunar calendar and marked the Jewish holidays according to it, including Yom Kippur. This implies that the community of the scrolls feasted on a day that was a fast day for other Jews (and vice versa). In Josephus' descriptions of the Essenes, he does not mention this crucial fact at all.

And finally, if we assume a connection between the scrolls and the Essenes, how do we explain the fact that the term "Essenes" is not mentioned even once in the entire corpus of the scrolls?

There are also question marks on the archaeological side. Archaeologist Roland de Vaux, the great French excavator of Qumran who directed the excavations at the site between 1951 and 1955, admits that "the lack of certainty hovers over all the archaeological findings that we may gather in order to substantiate the assertion that the community at Qumran was Asian in character." He offers a more modest claim, according to which "there is nothing in the (archaeological) findings that contradicts such a hypothesis".

However, there is no doubt that de Vaux was eager to interpret his archaeological findings in the light of the texts of the scrolls, and was determined to establish the hypothesis that the site of Qumran served as the center of a religious sect that maintained a communal life. Examples of this are de Vaux's meandering reference to the fortified tower (in a settlement of a community that was supposed to be peace-loving) and the discovery of female skeletons in the Qumran cemetery (of a community that was supposed to be of monks only), as well as the discoveries at the site of "gender objects" (objects such as skills or beads that were used and owned by women only and therefore indicate the presence of women on the site).

Other problems are raised by de Vaux's reference to fragments of precious glass found in the compound (of a community that was supposed to be ascetic), and to the enigmatic case of the copper scroll (a scroll made of copper engraved with a list of treasures, and it details the hiding place of these treasures).

The philosophy of science describes different ways of justifying a scientific theory or replacing it with another theory. The standard situation is a kind of free market of competing theories, each of which has evidence that corroborates and supports it to some extent. This situation also includes criteria that determine how our attitude to the theory should change with the discovery of new findings, confirming or refuting, and when an acute crisis arises to the point of needing a scientific revolution. Control of a theory in a scientific field as a "default" is not part of the normative concept in science.

In studying the scrolls, one gets the impression that it doesn't matter how many alternative theories or ideas come up, the condition to switch to a new theory is proof beyond any doubt of its truth. For you to believe, for example, that the Qumran site was an agricultural estate and not a monastery, you would have to present evidence that beyond doubt supports the estate theory. If the evidence isn't perfect, you're left with the Abbey theory by default.

Alternative theories
Many have challenged the accepted theory. Alternative theories contend with each other regarding the origin of the scrolls and regarding the nature of the ruins of Qumran. Despite their many differences, the alternative theories all agree on one point: they deny any connection between the site at Kumaran and the scrolls.

These researchers are not particularly impressed by the proximity of the caves where the scrolls were discovered to the ruins of Qumran (some of the caves are as far as two kilometers from them) and they do not accept the accepted interpretation that the site was the center of a religious cult.

As for the scrolls, the main alternative explanation is that they were sent to the desert from Jerusalem. The claim is that the scrolls came from several libraries in Jerusalem - perhaps even from the temple library - and that they were hastily sent to hide and save in remote caves in the Judean desert when the Roman legions approached Jerusalem just before its final destruction in 70 AD.

And as for the nature of the Qumran site, there are at least ten other theories according to which it was a military site, an aristocratic vacation home, an industrial center, a tax collection station, an agricultural estate, a roadside inn, a workshop for the manufacture of urns, and more. What these alternative interpretations have in common is the perception that the site fulfilled an earthly function, devoid of any religious or spiritual nature. All challenge the idea that Qumran was the center of an ancient Jewish community that maintained a proto-Christian monastic lifestyle. Resolving the dispute over the true nature of the site has far-reaching consequences that can shed light on a period that had a profound impact on Western culture.

The Asian theory still dominates

As it turned out, the central theory "cult" was stronger than any of its competitors. Some of the reasons for this are not purely scientific, and the success of the theory stems from a rare combination of at least four factors: 1) incredibly charismatic researchers who promoted the theory in its early days. 2) An all-encompassing eagerness in the general public, especially in the Christian and Jewish world, to believe the story of Isaiah. 3) A rich corpus of texts (the scrolls), which indeed describes a group similar to the one described in Josephus' stories about the Essenes. 4) A unique and enigmatic archaeological site (Qumran), which is located near the caves and whose identity is unclear.

The contribution of the first researchers to the advancement of the central theory cannot be underestimated. De Vo, Yedin and Suknik were researchers with a captivating personality and a unique research charisma. To them we must add the writer and literary critic Edmund Wilson whose influence, as far as the general public of the English-speaking world is concerned, was no less important: Wilson wrote a series of articles about the scrolls that were published in the prestigious publication The New Yorker, and then published his best-selling book from 1955 based on this series. The book had a huge impact.

Through Wilson's book, a wide English-speaking readership was first exposed to the story of the treasured scrolls. Wilson, completely captivated by De Voe Vidin, unquestioningly bought the Essene-Qumran version of the scroll story, helping to engrave it in the minds of many people. There is no doubt that this non-scientific literary work contributed greatly to the unique position of the Essen-Kumran theory as the great "default" theory.

The connection between the scrolls and the Essenes has a captivating seductive power. By attributing the scrolls to the Essenes, we come as close as possible to identifying and understanding the link between Judaism and Christianity. This fact must have charmed many, just as it alarmed others, especially among the more conservative orthodox Christians, who are preoccupied with preserving the primacy of the message of Jesus. The Issy connection has a powerful attraction - religious, romantic and utopian; None of the other theories can compete with this attractiveness.

In recent decades, and especially since the 90s of the 20th century, scholars such as Norman Golb, Robert Doncil and Pauline Doncil-Watt, Yizhar Hirschfeld, Alan Crown and Lena Cansdale, Michael Wise, Yitzhak Magen and Yuval Peleg have come out strongly against the archaeological argument of the Essene hypothesis -Kumran, and proposed alternative theories. They succeeded in creating cracks in the central theory and exposed its weaknesses, but did not present a coherent alternative theory of similar power.

In the midst of all this, in recent years, the Qumran-Isyat theory has found clever ways to incorporate into it some assumptions from the theories that challenged it. And so, sophisticatedly upgraded and reinstalled, the theory continues to dominate the study of the shelved scrolls. If new and dramatic evidence is not suddenly discovered that will revolutionize the field, it seems that the interpretation given by Suknik the evening he received the first scrolls for examination will continue to be the authoritative and agreed upon interpretation by most researchers - and to the best of my judgment it is true.

On the same topic on the science website

60 תגובות

  1. Lanaam,
    The question is, how did the administration let things happen, even though it is against federal law. A rookie lawyer would go above and beyond and overturn the decree that lasted for years and years. It is a fact that by federal law, slavery was abolished and never happened again, in any state in the USA. Why is the law to abolish slavery preserved and the anti-discrimination law not preserved, in any state in the USA.
    Despite all this, the problem with the ultra-Orthodox will have to be resolved through dialogue. It's not called giving up, it's the best way
    to reach a way out of the existing tangle. After all, what happened regarding the previous refusal, three hundred potential soldiers will not serve in the IDF. This happens because of a lack of understanding by the ultra-orthodox, the commitment to the state, because they do not study citizenship and history. The secular side also fails to reach the understanding of the ultra-Orthodox, because they learn from the books of Halacha, Rambam, Rashbi, Tanach, Gemara, Mishna, Halacha and other sayings of righteous people... This is how two parallel lines were created, without a meeting point. Until the Enlightenment period, it was their entire world, of the entire Jewish people in the diaspora, from east to west.
    Some have completely broken away from the tradition and some have remained adherents to it, both currents remain of Jewish nationality.
    If a person learns something specific, related to faith, it is natural that he will remain faithful to it. otherwise what's the point
    in study and belief if they are not applied during a test. After all, to anyone with common sense, this would be considered treason, for everything dear to you.
    Therefore, it is necessary to reach an understanding with the ultra-Orthodox, to give time to incubate and internalize things, in order to reach a positive result. The situation worsens, because there is no communication at all, during times of calm. A soft tongue will achieve an effective result, more than using force. I also blame the decision makers, who mention the ultra-Orthodox only when the coalition is assembled and do not count them after the formation of the government. If the situation is like this today, it is because the leadership, for generations, did not fulfill its role properly and as required of it.

  2. Gideon:
    In my opinion, you are talking complete nonsense, but since I have already had endless arguments like this with your double, I have already lost my patience.

    Sweet dreams.

  3. to Michael Rothschild,
    If you think that if the world was without borders, without religion, without faith, without customs, without differences and without leadership, it would be better, you are wrong. One would prey on the other and the one with the arm would dominate, over the weaker than him. By force of nature, there are weak humans and there are strong ones and everything in between. Everyone knows that the strong survive and the weak fall. So if the world is the way it is today, it is because there is no other way to sustain it, despite the wars that happen from time to time. This is the least evil. It is not possible to reach the world like in John Lennon's song: "Imagine".
    Following the separation between countries, different cultures, different music, different language and other differences were created, creating a wide variety
    and rich of cultures.
    It doesn't matter if the Bible is true or not, in any case the Jewish people are educated on it, even if there is doubt. This is a fact.
    The Bible is considered the book of books, and in the sales chart, it occupies first place in the world.
    Regarding the conquest of the land and the expulsion of the Canaanites, the Jews had no choice, since the Egyptians abused them and turned the Jews into slaves. Without slavery, the Jewish people would have remained in Egypt.
    The people realized that without a sovereign state and without a protective force, it would remain weak and controlled by those stronger than it. This is what happened during the Holocaust, Judaism was defenseless and the powerful did whatever they wanted to the Jews.
    The greatest crime in history against humanity was committed by a man without any faith, not a Muslim, not a Jew, and not a Christian believer. This is a fact.
    It is possible that faith softens the animal in man. Faith can limit the power of destruction in a person, by being aware of a power greater than himself.

  4. Machel
    Next, let's assume for a moment that the Torah is not a complete lie
    To which sections will this assumption apply and which not?
    A bit of a problem to choose no yes

  5. Gideon,

    Just not true!
    If there is a conflict between a local law and a state (federal) law, only the state (federal) law should be followed

    Both in Arkansas and in Emanuel, they tried to impose a local law that contradicts state (federal) laws
    (I didn't talk to that brave black woman, but I'm sure she knew about the federal law, otherwise she wouldn't have dared to do what she did).

    Moreover, something much more serious happened here:
    The ultra-orthodox sector explicitly announced that in any case of a conflict between the laws of the state and the laws of Halacha - the laws of Halacha prevail.

    This is no longer a secondary question about a certain school, it is a challenge to the sovereignty of the state.

    A concession here will immediately lead to the submission of troops to the rabbis and not to the commanders, and here you have the complete disintegration of the state.

  6. Lanaam,
    Even if there was a contradiction, a law is a law, whether it is a municipal by-law or a law enacted by the Knesset, both must be obeyed.
    Regarding the law enforcers, disobeying a municipal by-law is a violation of the law. If there was a contradiction why the administration allows it to be held and thus cause suffering to a wide public, who feels humiliated every day anew. There were billboards all over America, enlightening, at the entrance to restaurants and places of entertainment, "Blacks and dogs are not allowed to enter." In the Civil War, slavery was abolished, but discrimination against blacks remained. Without the black woman's refusal, she certainly did not know how to notice the contradiction in the law, the abolition of discrimination laws, would have been postponed and would not have taken place at all. In any case, she disobeyed an existing law. If there was a contradiction, why didn't Luther King or someone else before him raise the issue with the Supreme Court, the Senate or Congress. The issue would have been resolved in one hour, without the need for riots and stormy demonstrations. A state cannot act contrary to the laws it establishes.

  7. By the way, Gideon:
    The first genocide ever recorded (if we assume for a moment that the Torah is not a complete lie) was the one committed by the Jews in the name of their moral religion against the inhabitants of the land (the Hivites, the Frisians and the Jebusites).
    I don't know what would have happened if Hitler had been a believing Christian.
    We saw what could have happened if a Jew had believed and we have a daily demonstration of what would have happened if a Muslim had believed.

  8. Gideon:
    All religions serve only one purpose and that is to control the believers.
    The Jewish religion is no exception.
    All religions create artificial differences between people - differences whose main result is wars.
    All beliefs that go beyond belief in the correctness of the axioms of logic are a substitute for an impartial inquiry into truth.
    That is why all religious beliefs since time immemorial have hindered, for example, the progress of science and even harmed those who dared to promote it.
    This is also true of the Jewish faith.
    Nations also artificially separate people.
    That is why I am not impressed by the fact that if not for Judaism the Jewish people would not exist nor that if not for Islam the international backwardness union would not have arisen.
    If Judaism had not arisen - all the people who were killed due to being Jews would still be alive and so would their descendants who were never born.
    The world would be better if there was no need for nations at all and the need for nations is always created by the artificial differences that humans define between themselves.

  9. to Michael Rothschild.
    I'm not here to preach the repeal of the laws, God forbid. But I point out a fact, the law does not prevent criminality in every existing field, from minor offenses to the act of killing and murder. The law comes into operation, after the offense has been committed and litigation has been initiated
    Jupiter. The law is very essential, for the sake of maintaining public order, deterring and fearing the threat of judgment.
    Regarding faith and religion, according to history and sources, if it were not for both together, the Jewish people would not have formed as a nation
    His own country, who resides in Zion. Had it not been for faith, David as a boy would not have dared to fight the Philistine army and Michael Angelo would not have carved a statue in marble in memory of Moses and David. It is possible that faith is unnecessary today, but in ancient times it was an essential necessity, to motivate a public to change its ways, to go into battle or to achieve any lofty goal. Humans are not built from one piece, there are those who do not let go of faith and religion, because it gives them confidence, spirituality, learning that leads to elation and a sense of shared destiny with the community, which accepts them as they are.
    A believing public exists in every country, from the most enlightened to the most backward, and one must learn to live with it, as a man lives with a woman, even if there is no agreement between them. One should not blacken this or that public, because they are different from each other.
    Every nation has its own past and history, the Jewish nation was created out of faith in God and religion, otherwise it would not exist at all. That's a fact, you have another fact. Faith and religion have created one or two things during human history. There was both good and bad, as it happens in every human society. If Hitler was a believing Christian, he would not have done the crazy things
    that he did against the Jews, as an anti-Semite he would have been content with expelling them from any occupied country, as happened with the deportation of Spain, now you tell me which are the greatest crimes against humanity, the religious or the secular.

  10. Gideon,

    Do you not read what is written to you?

    There was a classic case of a contradiction between a local law and a federal law - and the federal law is decisive - what is not clear to you here?
    The segregationists violated federal law, period.

    Just as today, there is a contradiction between the laws of the state and the laws of the rabbis - and the laws of the state prevail - this is how it is in every reformed democratic country.

    Your conclusion that the administration was in favor of racial segregation is baseless and shows a complete lack of knowledge of American history.
    So for your information - the civil war (the North against the South) broke out precisely over the question of racism and inequality.

    The fact that the enforcement of federal laws (and in our case state laws) takes a long time indicates the difficulties and perhaps the desire to end the matter peacefully, but, when the moment of decision comes, there is no choice and one must act with strength and determination.

    There is no other way to maintain a country!

    Need to explain it more clearly???

  11. We poked around and finally found the anthem in his honor..
    "In the country of the dwarves there is a commotion, the army in uniform goes to war... and at the head of the battalion stands Thimble the tin... excuse me, commander! On his head is a steel cap and in his hand a steel pin...
    And for the deputy, we have a joke:
    Two Romans enter a clothing store in the dead of night, stealing from everyone nearby. Suddenly one of them sees a tie worth 2000 NIS. "Did you see what thieves they are?" he says to his partner..

  12. The main question is what are the standards according to which they are tested and therefore the result can be adjusted to justify the research only you forgot to mention the main source according to which it all started

  13. Lanaam,
    The racial separation between blacks and whites was established by law. It was not done on the whim of one person or another.
    If it wasn't legal, why didn't the government and law enforcers act against the phenomenon, until that black woman, who sat down on the bus in a place that belongs to whites. If the separation was legal, the woman actually disobeyed and according to the law is liable to the law, like anyone else who transgresses the law. If segregation was illegal, why was it stopped?
    Because of the refusal and disobedience of this brave woman, from whom it all started, the laws of racism were abolished,
    which have existed since the independence of the USA. After all, you have a clear example of disobeying an existing law, which led to a revolution and doing justice to the blacks. The administration was obliged to act against the hawks, as a governing force, for the purpose of industrial peace and to stop the deterioration. The fact that the administration did not act to prevent racial segregation even before the demonstrations and protests of the blacks, indicates that it was in favor of racial segregation.

  14. Complement to Gideon:
    From the way you presented yourself I got the impression that you are not religious.
    From the rest of your words, I lost confidence in this conclusion.
    If the initial conclusion is nevertheless correct and you say that everything starts with education, then how do you want to reach the goal when most of the roots of the problem are in the religious education that educates for parasitism and feelings of grandeur?
    Their main crime is therefore sending their babies to this education system so that they fall captive to religion.
    The only way to fight this phenomenon is to impose a logical education system by law and the main mistake the state has been making for years is not doing so.

  15. Gideon:
    What do I say and what will I say?!
    I don't know the mafia's financial cycle and I have no doubt that you have no idea what it is either.
    It is very convenient to make such claims.
    What is certain is that the mafia is eliminating fewer people than before. This is an obvious and obvious fact that you prefer to ignore.
    Although it is not customary to hang on to high trees, it is still advisable that you pay attention to the fact that there is no one in the world who believes in you. There is no country that has decided to give up the law!
    So you claim that everyone is stupid?
    It seems reasonable to me that what everyone will claim against you in response is more true.
    Let's look at another fact:
    Religion is also nothing but a set of rules!
    Therefore, what you suggest us to believe is that a system of laws enacted by people from a backward culture is superior to the system of laws we are enacting today - with all the experience we have gained.
    Maybe stop hovering?!
    The crime in the religious current is not less than the crime in the secular current.
    Your claim is simply a false claim by the people of the cart full of garbage.
    In fact - the opposite is true.
    The press is full of facts

    But instead of referring you to her - maybe it's better if I refer you to the following lecture:

    This is a lecture worth listening to in its entirety, but the interesting part for our immediate purpose is in the question and answer part - which starts at the 58th minute.
    Sam Harris quotes there from the UN Development Report the simple fact that the countries with the highest level of morality are the most secular countries.

    Now don't get me wrong!
    I am very much in favor of education.
    I only claim (and the proofs are countless) that religious education teaches immorality!

  16. Gideon,

    You were both wrong and missed an important point of similarity between the two cases.

    In the USA, the federal law prevails over the local laws, just as in Israel the state laws prevail over the Halacha laws!
    The opponents of racial segregation in the US acted according to the federal law, and the violation of the law was carried out by the local authorities.

    Basically, you understood the whole event in the opposite way...

    I repeat: the analysis of the event in Arkansas proves exactly the opposite of what you claim. The enforcement of the federal law brought about a change in the racist ideology, and the fact that the US today has a black president is proof of that.

    Your offer to negotiate cannot solve the fundamental problem, but only postpone the inevitable confrontation. There is no possibility of talking to someone who thinks that the rabbis should be obeyed and not the High Court, and I am amazed that you do not understand this.
    Any delay will only make the inevitable confrontation bigger and more difficult

  17. to Michael Rothschild,
    Although the mafia operates with a low profile, the turnover of funds that it generates annually, just keeps growing, every year. A law does not contribute to the eradication of crime and does not prevent any crime, despite the heavy penalties involved. A law does not prevent traffic offenses, does not prevent corruption, does not prevent defamation, does not prevent vandalism and drunk driving, does not prevent drug trafficking and smoking and more...
    What can prevent negative phenomena in society is education with values ​​and morals.
    The secular society is not encouraging, especially among the youth, to say the least. On the other hand, in the religious and ultra-Orthodox stream, crime among the youth is minimal, thanks to the values ​​and moral education.

  18. Lanaam,
    If we go by your words, those who opposed racism in the US did not keep the law, since they rebelled against segregation
    between blacks and whites, according to federal law. According to your reasoning, the blacks had to obey the law, without hesitation and without question. Here we see here a violation of the law in order to abolish racism, by holding demonstrations without the approval of the government and disobeying the law. (Every demonstration by the blacks was dispersed by force of arms)
    If that black woman, who refused to sit on the bus, in a place reserved for blacks, had continued to obey the law,
    It is possible that the laws would not have changed, until this very day. That is, by breaking the law, blacks became citizens with equal rights to whites. This still does not mean that there is no racism towards the blacks and even towards the Jews and other minorities.
    I am not forgiving, towards those who violate law and order, but in order to resolve the tangle with the ultra-Orthodox public, dialogue is necessary
    Constantly, between the local leadership and the religious leadership, trying to bridge the gaps, in matters of state, so that it will be possible
    prevent ongoing conflicts known in advance. Arguing and deviating, one against the other, is not appropriate for a nation that seeks culture and is contrary to the Jewish character, as a nation that creates universal values.
    Law does not defeat ideology and does not decide principles. There is and the law is being emptied of its contents and must be "renovated" in order to adapt to the spirit of the times. The world undergoes constant changes, the laws remain fossilized and do not answer the problems of the hour.
    As Israelis, we know how to fight and are ready to sacrifice, but we do not know how to run a country.


  19. Gideon,
    You are too much bursting into an open door, and at the same time also diverting the debate from the main point.

    The main thing is that it is not possible to maintain a state, if each group of people decides that it has its own laws, and the laws of the state do not apply to it, whenever it seems to them that these laws are contrary to their worldview.
    There is no room for compromise here, because a compromise with a certain body will inevitably lead to further compromises with other bodies, and ultimately to the collapse of the rule of law and the state.

    I hope you agree with such a simple and thorough statement.

    The Americans in the southern countries also saw racial segregation as a matter of principle, and demanded that they be allowed to live their lives according to their worldview.
    Fortunately for the American nation, it had a leader who understood that submission must not be made, and that if there is no choice, force must be used to enforce the law.

    Completely contrary to what you said, law enforcement on a public of millions, succeeded and changed the face of America completely.

    I hope that a brave leader will arise in Israel who will understand this.

  20. Gideon:
    This does not confirm your words at all.
    The mafia is much less powerful than it was in the past in each of these places.
    Neither does anyone think to "learn a lesson" and start talking to you because everyone with sense understands that it is pointless.

  21. To Noam,
    It is true that Zionism was initiated by secular Jews, but despite the rebellion in tradition and religion, they remained Jews, without the burden of the mitzvot. Zionism, a great miracle that is paralleled by the miracle of the exodus from Egypt. In both cases a sovereign state was established for the Jewish people. It must be remembered that the goal and longing of the Jewish people in exile was always to return to the promised land, as a free and sovereign nation over its own land (the anthem proves this)
    Based on what is written in the sources and the longing of the Jew to return to his homeland, Zionism is established, otherwise why not prefer another, less arid region, if you are willing to sacrifice your life, in order to establish a national home for the Jewish people. Just as well, it could have succeeded. Why prefer the Land of Israel, over Uganda for example. Because the Jewish people have a history of 3500 years. Where does the name come from, the Land of Israel, Jerusalem, Mount Tabor, the Jezreel Valley and more... these came from the sources, from the Bible.
    A large and broad part of the Jewish public does not accept Zionism or its leadership, but they still have the right to maintain their unique character and to act according to their faith, Torah, religion and Halacha.
    As for racism, the country is awash in hidden and open racism, in every corner of the city: in society, in employment, in education, everywhere else.
    A secular person will not accept a religious person for senior management positions and vice versa. An Ethiopian will not receive an education like the northerner, he will not receive kindergarten,
    Arabs, neither Ethiopian nor any other tribe.
    Regarding the failure to recruit the ultra-Orthodox to the IDF, the ultra-orthodox fear their children abandoning religion and going into a bad culture, under the influence of
    Secularism. In the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox, any deviation from the Torah standard is an opening to talking about the past and the corruption of morals.
    As for obeying the law, as far as I know, the ultra-orthodox public generally observes the law and there are not many exceptional cases of disobeying the law. If the ultra-Orthodox have principles that are inviolable from their point of view, and they are willing to stand up for them fiercely, they have the right to do so, just as a person who refuses to recruit humanitarian charges is willing to pay the price of sitting in prison for a long time.
    The difference that the secular takes upon himself to be a Jew, living in the land of the oppressed, the ultra-Orthodox who is also a Jew, conducts himself according to tradition, observes the observance of the mitzvot of the Torah and Halacha. Everything beyond that is not considered in his eyes. It's because of education.
    that he grew up on. They did not grow up on the knees of Zionist education.
    to Michael Rothschild,
    To a large extent, this only confirms my words, despite the law and the punishments, the mafia is thriving in the USA, Italy, Japan, Russia and the United States. And the law has failed to save it, especially in social matters. The law cannot be enforced on a principled public.

  22. Gideon:
    The "facts" you state are not facts and the conclusions you draw are off the cuff.
    Do you want me to replace "thief" with "mafia"?
    Here: I changed!

  23. Gideon,

    A large part of the founders of the settlement and the state did indeed come from the background you mentioned, but their action was a ** rebellion in the legacy of Beit Abba **

    I don't know what exactly a "taboo right" is, but in your opinion this right has existed all along and yet has not been exercised. The realization of this right, for the most part, is not done by religious people. The state contract was certainly not a religious person.

    No one proposed to impose a way of life with the help of the law - you burst into an open door.

    At the same time, no one has the right to break the law, and it doesn't matter what his faith is or what his lifestyle is - that's the main point!

    It is forbidden to put up with racial discrimination in the name of religion, nor with any other violation of the law in the name of the Rabbi or the Rebbe.

    The struggle is much deeper and more critical. Those ultra-Orthodox, according to their method, do not support themselves, do not serve in the army and benefit from the budgets of the state they want to destroy.
    Unfortunately, there is no chance that they will want to leave the country, and their strength stems from the existing electoral system, and a forgiving attitude like yours. The process leads to the disintegration of the country within a short time.
    Of course, it doesn't matter to them - after all, they see the country as a foreign rule, and they have no problem continuing under another foreign rule.

    It is not possible to bridge the gaps, and what we must do is to prevent the continuation of the destructive process for the country.

  24. To Noam,
    Most of the founders of the state and the settlement, with a religious background from Abba's house. The BILO group came from a believing home, they studied in a room and kept their traditions, in their countries of origin. The taboo right on the Land of Israel originates in the Bible and this cannot be denied.
    The ultra-Orthodox do not accept Zionism and its leadership. It goes against the belief they were raised on, since the destruction of the house,
    Without the Temple that is supposed to come down from heaven in its entirety, there is no resurrection for the Jewish people. (sounds strange), but this is their way. The ultra-Orthodox live in Israel and behave as if under foreign rule. Go now, to bridge the huge gaps that exist.
    It is folly to think that law and justice will solve the issue, to change their faith and their lifestyle as such. If it were possible, I would be the first to enforce the law, full steam ahead. This is not the right way, it only increases the hatred towards the establishment even more. . We are not talking about a single person here, we are talking about an entire community of several hundred thousand Jews who chose to live here, because settling the land is a mitzvah according to the Halacha, even if it was under another foreign rule. Pressure that hurts their faith, may cause them to leave the country.
    There is much more to add, but I'll settle for now.
    to Michael Rothschild,
    There is a difference between a community and a single person. Law and punishment do not prevent a thief from continuing to steal, the same applies to the ultra-Orthodox, law and punishment are not the solution to the issue, far from it.


  25. Gideon:
    I assume that you will not demand that an ordinary thief stop stealing immediately, but allow him to continue stealing and in the meantime you will talk to him and explain to him that it is not worthwhile for him because eventually you will run out of money and he will have no one to steal from.
    He - of course - will understand, as his predecessors understood, that you can continue to steal and that you will eventually compromise on everything.

  26. anonymous user,

    Your situation is difficult:
    You didn't even know which anthem to choose, and you even forgot your name!
    Or did you hide it on purpose?

  27. Do you want a TLS?? Noam! Brrrr.. for a moment of a huge flash of light
    Panic gripped us, and we almost started singing the anthem in your honor.
    But we faced a minor problem: we didn't know which anthem to choose.

  28. Gideon,

    A person will live in his faith, only if everyone obeys the laws of the country

    Most of the founders of the state did not believe in the Holy One, blessed be He, certainly not in His promises.
    Moreover, quite a few of the ultra-Orthodox are interested in the dissolution of the state as quickly as possible.
    It's nice that you show understanding and patience for the ultra-Orthodox's world view, so much so that you are willing to give up the rule of law. To remind you, in the Emanuel matter, the ultra-Orthodox faction turned to the court for help, and not the court suddenly attacked the ultra-Orthodox.

    The most basic common denominator for all residents of the country is recognition of the supremacy of the law!
    If you show the same patience and understanding to every group of people in the country that believes in its way, and resolve them to obey the law, you will accomplish with your own hands the dissolution of the country that we have worked so hard and sacrificed for.

    Even in the largest democracy in the world - the USA - they realized that in certain situations (Arkansas - mixing blacks and whites in the schools), all force must be used, even with the help of the army, to force obedience to the laws of the state.
    How ironic it is, that there is a surprising similarity between the events in the USA, and what is happening in Ariel.
    It turns out that racists are everywhere - they simply must not be allowed to take over the country.

  29. No one in his faith will live.
    There must be understanding and constant dialogue between all the opposing factions. It is not possible to change in a single diagnosis
    Faith, education, lifestyle and tradition that continues for generations upon generations. The change must be gradual, in order to give
    A stay to digest the transformation process, which the ultra-orthodox current must go through. A council of sages (not politicians or businessmen) must be organized, consisting of well-known, secular and religious people, accepted by all currents, and a reform agreed and binding on all participants must be installed. This is not the place to apply law and justice, since this provokes resistance, protest and increases polarization and hatred for the establishment. It is necessary to internalize the process, we are all in the same boat. It must be illustrated to the entire ultra-Orthodox public that the Jewish people, on all levels, have a common destiny. After all, thanks to faith, in God's promise: "to give this land as an inheritance to the people of Israel", the Jewish people have their own sovereign state. So it cannot be refuted that faith is an unnecessary thing and should be completely barren. Therefore, the right thing to do, at this time, is constant dialogue and to overcome a hurdle every time and reach a common denominator, which will allow all the citizens of the country to live together, with each one contributing his contribution for the common good.

  30. And one or a nurse!
    You are as ultra-Orthodox as it is possible to be!
    To force someone to work for his living so that there is no parasite on me?! Is this coercion? Isn't he forcing his parasitism on me and in fact this is a war of liberation?!
    It is very nice that the job is not at the top of his ambitions!
    I assume that even dying on the battlefield is not considered a great pleasure in his eyes, so we must not force military service on him.

  31. Hello to the debaters above,
    I came to the article in my search for material on the "Book of Genesis" and I was carried away to read your argument.
    To Avi Blizovsky: You yourself quote scientific theories and even journalists as if they were the "words of the living God" when the entire article warns us against swallowing scientific theories without the required reservation.
    Second, if and when there is much more money in the state coffers as a result of the work of the "lulavim" and as you say, we will come to invest it in education, the debate will start again as to what kind of education they will invest money in. That is, we are in the matter of "education" in a closed circle. As long as ultra-Orthodox society does not maintain its own state according to its understanding, whatever you think is right and proper is imposing your view on the ultra-Orthodox. (And this includes the compulsion to work, because it is very possible that they do not see work as the embodiment of human ambition on earth, but rather the studies in the contents they think are worthy.)
    And as for God, if his existence could be proven there would be no need to believe in him. He was a fact and not a belief. As soon as you insert the root amn into an equation or formula, you give up the proof in advance.
    And a small linguistic note: simoth present in XNUMX (she went, found) was already in use in Hebrew during the Second Temple period. (See the scroll of Isaiah that links to this article.) Although this is not acceptable in modern spelling, it is not an unforgivable mistake. just so you'll know!

  32. This article deals with the acceptance and refutation of archaeological theories by science and human society, period.

    Therefore the title is unnecessary, misleading, and demagogic - you are trying to "catch a ride" on a concept that makes a lot of BUZZ, but is not talked about. This entire article does not give any factual information about the scrolls. Just a waste of readers' time.

  33. Herzl was secular, assimilated and he wanted to solve the problem of the Jews as a nation, not necessarily as a religion. Actually many of the fanatics did not want to come to Israel. The Rebbe of Lubivitch of that time chose, for example, to save himself and a small group and move to New York and he left most of his followers to be killed in the Holocaust. Most of the ultra-Orthodox, except for those who decided to come and impose their kerizas on us (due to the tightening of the chametz law and the idea that the barcode at the cash register will not accept chametz even if a secularist saw a chametz product behind the curtain) boycotted the State of Israel until they discovered that it was a shekel to milk.
    You will not rewrite history.

  34. Assaf and my father,
    If you are Jewish, you probably believe that your forefathers, who made you remember that you are like this, were swinging lovers, fanatics who believe in an imaginary friend and people who contribute to the root of evil in the world...
    Assuming you live in Israel, how do you feel comfortable living in a country that arose because of a group of fanatics who think, in the name of that imaginary friend, that she and only she belongs to them, the imaginary people?

  35. Every time the subject of "God" comes up, the saying comes up:
    "The root of evil is the belief in the one and only truth
    The more evil and wicked acts
    are done out of religious conviction"

  36. I agree with you that such people have no place in society but they exist in every society.

  37. Of course, if we go to the point of absurdity then no one is good. Murderers and rapists have no place in society, and it doesn't matter where they are from, a religious Lulav has no place because he lives at the expense of others and demands that he be treated as superior to the others from whom he derives his money.
    And all this in the name of an imaginary friend.

  38. But poverty cannot disappear, what is possible is that "poverty" be defined differently. There will always be poor, only the wealth will change. Correct me where I am wrong.

  39. Since this is such a large population, it is clear that the new resources will also make it possible to invest in education and take us out of the third world in this area, and there will also be enough left over to lower taxes. I really hope that the country will be less corrupt because then it will be possible to make do with less waste in the pipeline. If they work we will all be richer. By the way, the ultra-Orthodox also because because they do menial work, they are afraid of being found out and therefore do not exhaust their real earning potential. And those who live on benefits realize that although they are sucking the bread and butter of the workers and breadwinners, they are still living in a pinch, especially because their families are large.
    So that everyone will be hired. The seclusion only helps their businessmen control them (and us) and does not give them any real benefit in the long run. On the contrary, as I mentioned, they drag the country down.

  40. Mr. Blizovsky you say you have to pay in their place as well. You, as someone who has degrees in economics, might be able to answer my question: Do you think that if the religious also pay taxes, then the burden on taxes will be reduced? Or will their money be added to additional "waste channels" by the government?

  41. You have to go to the army, because you yourself said that we have enemies (exactly for the same reason that Hamas and Hezbollah do not like us because we are enlightened and represent the hated Western culture). And as for the question if the religious don't work, how does that stop me from making a decent living. Come on, some seriousness. A. They don't pay taxes, so I have to pay for them as well. Not only do they not pay, they receive exemptions from property tax and all kinds of taxes and also receive all kinds of allowances tailored to them. That is, apparently intended for everyone, but in fact the ones who enjoy them are mainly them. For example child benefits. and even budgets for youth in need (which they use to prevent the youth from repeating the question). So I actually subsidize them twice. (Unfortunately, I studied economics degrees so I understand the subject).
    Actually three times because they take the money I give them against my will and use it to steal my children.

    I'm sure you know the answer, but you're naive or, what's more certain, naive.

  42. Look, there are some religious people I know who do work, secondly, the reason that, in my opinion, almost all of the ultra-Orthodox do not serve in the army is because the army is "leftist" every day. Besides, if the religious don't work, how does that stop you from making a decent living?

  43. I don't see arrogant people who think they can educate my children better than me as my brothers. Now I also understand why Michael claimed you are a religious troll. You will do everything to protect the defenders of child abusers and rioters against the fact that there are Jerusalemites who also want to work and earn a living with dignity and not just move around all day like Lulev.
    After all, if they had worked for their livelihood, they would not have gotten into these troubles. And you still want me to consider them? About what, about the fact that they are turning us into a third world country? Even so, Israel is at the bottom of the western world in terms of the participation rate of men at work. Maybe you didn't hear Roni Daniel on Friday on Channel 2. He talked about how in 10 years only 40% will receive a conscription order and the rest will be either Arabs or ultra-Orthodox. After all, even today the decision makers take money from the universities and give it to meetings and grants for a growing population of parasites. In the end they will cut the branch on which we all sit.

  44. Avi. All I think is that people like you should not fight with "vigor" but with "courage" and not against your brothers but against your own jobs.

  45. I am the last person you can come to with any claim, I studied elementary school in a religious school, although I did not keep all the mitzvot, but I continued to believe this nonsense gradually until the age of 20, until I read a book by Carl Sagan - Broca's mind, and I understood where the truth is. Since then I have been fighting for rationalization and against anyone who advocates spirituality of any kind - Chinese, Indian Hottentot, and Jewish alike. And besides, if we have to understand the other side, we will have to spend all our days studying hundreds of religions, when there is no need for it, a tree without roots does not last even if all the major workers of all religions paint the trunk with lime every morning.

  46. To my father Blizovsky,
    I also don't agree with religious coercion but why fight it if you don't understand what you are fighting? Their side also does not understand the seculars and they (because you are fighting them) are fighting you and they also do not understand what they are fighting. Try to understand the religion before you start fighting it.

  47. Not true, the answer is simpler. Force God on us with violence, after all, it is impossible to prove the existence of something that does not exist, just as I cannot prove that an invisible teacup floats in space or the existence of the flying spaghetti monster. Only no one spends trillions to rape my children to learn about the exploits of the monster or the cup of tea, while God was invented by people like you precisely to force things on me in his alleged name.
    And if I haven't made myself clear, God cannot be revealed for exactly the same reason that the teacup flying in space cannot be revealed.

    After the promise of the faithful minister, I am no longer forgiving of such coercion and I will fight it with all my vigor (final mud)

  48. Avi Blizovsky, regarding the question you addressed to commenter number 3 (so that there are no misunderstandings, it is not me), allow me to answer it for you: a non-believer (for example, like you) needs to "demand" proof of the existence of God even if he himself does not believe in him (there is a contradiction here ), therefore God cannot reveal himself to him and he cannot believe in God and therefore God uses people like "another one" to respond.

  49. Adi is limited, what to do?
    Fortunately probably less limited than others who vent all their OCD on this site.
    I would appreciate it if you could enlighten me on how to write these words correctly,
    I don't see a better way to write them.

  50. What happens to many scientific theories has happened to the central theory - they become paradigms. That is, they are accepted and a dynamic is created that becomes the basis of the world view. It hurts the most when it is necessary to change a paradigm and then the wars begin between researchers, scientists and just interested people from the side.

  51. I have never seen such an intelligent response and more from the editor of a "scientific" website
    How did you bring her to us upside down, my father, my dear, a genius.
    You are already registered for editing the scientific consultation of "Almost Angels".
    And if you're already thinking about it - you're here, and another one is here, so why not ask him
    Personally, why do you need the internet for that.
    Like that!

  52. Someone should send the article urgently to Roy Cezana after it came out in the article that now it's human sciences released its god.
    Here on the same website it is stated that the science is not accurate (not to say obviously real).

    Roy.... This article completely invalidates your entire article and several others that are published here on the site.

    I, as one who studied science, do not understand all those who hold science as the absolute truth.

    After all, everything is based on unproven imaginary theories, new ones arise every morning. And the only reason they keep them is to not be left with nothing, without any explanation.

    That is to say, it is better to claim something imaginary and not true (and at least they failed to prove it to be true) over a real claim that says

    sorry we don't know

    Several books were written about the scrolls and in the end no one knows anything. Everything written is not different from Zoll Warren's book

    And this is also called exact science...

  53. What do you do with the story of who wrote the scrolls? Like all the people in that period, how is it that in 2010 they still rely on the opinions of people with sticks and stones who lived in that period

  54. Fascinating article.
    Too bad the ending is too hasty. How does the main theory really justify the difficulties with it?

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