According to him, even aliens are considered gods * "The Tanach is not basically a science book but a love letter that God wrote to humans in a language that people could understand two thousand years ago"
The director of the Vatican Observatory said that it is possible that intelligent life exists on other planets. And since aliens may also be creatures of God, their existence does not contradict the Catholic faith. In an interview with the Vatican newspaper, Father Jose Gabriel Pons spoke about the Big Bang theory, and also spoke about creation and evolution.
The interview was initially published in the Italian language, but a priest from the Netherlands translated the full interview into English and uploaded it to his website: FatherRoderick.com.
Question: Does the big bang theory strengthen or conflict with the belief based on biblical creation?
Funas: "As an astronomer, I continue to believe that God is the creator of the universe and that we are not the result of chance, but the children of a good father, who has a loving plan for us. The Tanach is not fundamentally a science book. This is a book in which God gave us His words. It is a love letter that God wrote to humans in a language that is 3,000 to XNUMX years old. In those days, concepts such as the Big Bang were unknown. At least that way we can't ask you scientific questions. At the same time, we do not know whether in the near or distant future the big bang theory will be replaced by a more comprehensive and complete explanation of the origin of the universe. Currently this is the best theory and it does not conflict with faith. And therefore it is a reasonable theory.
Question: But the book of Genesis talks about the earth, the animals, Adam and Eve, does this mean that the creation of other worlds or other living beings in the universe is excluded?
Pons: "I believe that this possibility exists. Astronomers believe that there are hundreds of billions of galaxies, and each of them contains hundreds of billions of stars. Many of them, or perhaps almost all of them, could contain a planetary system. How can we rule out that life also developed elsewhere? Astrobiology is a branch of astronomy that studies exactly this topic, and it has undergone incredible development in recent years. When we examine the light spectrum from stars and planets, we can determine the composition of the elements in the atmosphere - those "bio markers" - and understand whether or not the conditions for the birth and development of life exist on this planet. Moreover, in her theory, life can also arise without hydrogen or oxygen.
Question: Do you also refer to living creatures similar to us or perhaps even more developed?
Pons - this is possible, but so far we have no proof of this. However, in such a large universe, this hypothesis cannot be ruled out.
Question: And this does not cause us problems with faith?
Pons: I don't think so. Just as there are plenty of creatures on Earth, there could be other creatures in the universe, perhaps even intelligent creatures that were also created by God. This does not conflict with his belief, because we cannot impose limits on God's creative freedom. As St. Francis would say, when we treat other creatures as our brothers and sisters, why can't we talk about our alien brothers? They too will be part of creation.
Question: What about redemption through atonement and forgiveness?
Pons: "Let's borrow the image from the faith about the lost sheep. The shepherd leaves 99 sheep from his flock to look for the one sheep. Let's say there are 100 sheep in the universe, referring to different forms of beings. We, the human race, may be the lost sheep, the sinners in need of a shepherd. God was incarnated in man in the form of Jesus to save us. In this way, even when other intelligent beings exist, it does not mean that we do not need atonement. They may remain in complete friendship with their creator.
Question: I insist, what will happen if they are the sinners, will it be possible to grant them forgiveness?
Pons: Jesus was a one-time revelation. The revelation was a unique and unrepeatable event. However, I am sure that they too, in one way or another, had the opportunity to experience God's mercy, as it was for humans.
We have no choice but to cry, if it weren't for the simple fact that unfortunately we also have our own Menachem Ben and Zamir Cohen...
100 תגובות
Evolution is not God. If God could stand billions of experiments like evolution you would probably be happy.
No one ascribes to evolution immense intelligence and infinite goodness. On the contrary, it is a very simple process that causes a very complicated result. And well - this is an interesting question, what is good for one creation can be bad for another.
And as for evolution - the scientists treat it as God for everything and anything.
And they attribute to her immense wisdom and infinite goodness
the Holy Trinity:
The adulterous father. the deviant mother the bastard son
In English, with your permission.
The first "Day" of the National cycle was from 3115 BC to 2721 BC. It was at this time that the Sumerians worshiped An or Anu.
Anu was seen as an omnipotent Creator God who had to share his space with a host of household, workplace, weather and nature gods of all kinds.
The second "Day" of the National cycle was from 2326 BC to 1938 BC. During this section Abraham moved to Cana in 2300 BC.
The third "Day" of the National cycle was from 1538 BC to 1144 BC.
This was the time of Moses and the beginning of Monotheism. (The Truth coming into sharper focus.)
The fourth "Day" of the National cycle was from 749 BC to 355 BC.
Isaiah was from the year 748 BC, Buddha, 552 BC, Confucius, 551 BC, Zoroaster, 550 BC, Pythagoras, 550 BC, Deutero-Isaiah 550 BC.
The fifth "Day" of the National cycle was from 40 AD to 434 AD. During this period Paul took the message of Jesus to the world and Christianity was born. Buddhism started in China 60 AD and the Talmudic and Judaism religions began at this time.
Not to mention Quetzalcoatl, the Maya Creator god who appeared to them in Teotihuacan, as a Christ like personage with a very similar message, in 40AD
The Fifth "Night" 434 AD to 829 AD was when Islam was inspired in 632AD
The Sixth "Day" of the National cycle was from 829 AD to 1223 AD. At this time there was a general expansion of Christianity to Northern and Eastern Europe.
The Crusades and development of the Papacy happened here as well as the second Quetzalcoatl in the Maya/Toltec city of Chichen Itza walked the earth.
The sixth "Night" the second wave of Islam 1223 AD to 1617 AD
The seventh "Day" was from 1617 AD to 2011 AD. During this period, Christianity expanded once again, starting with the Pilgrims in 1620 AD.
We could go through the discovery of scientific principles or communication methods or development of political ideals or the creation of America and we will see that the developments in each field conform to the same schedule. In fact everything we know of what has happened when follows this schedule.
There is no mistake; this is no 16.4 billion year long coincidence.
Now that Michael is out of the race maybe we can get somewhere.
Consider all significant events in the growth of culture throughout history. Place them on a timeline. Amazing things are revealed.
All my "inventions" are actually an attempt to translate into a language that you too can understand the knowledge that was in the world among ancient peoples (and for some reason, more advanced than humans today in certain respects.)
I guess that a concept like "consciousness" is not really clear to some of you.
Anyway,
I will continue with an example about the development of religion in the world.
Um, Hybrid, your entire message regarding the cosmic consciousness and the sine and the time of the pyramids and the other inventions is a total soup of arbitrary determinations that you have made to suit your will.
Let's leave the multitude of ethereal concepts that you threw in your message everywhere ("seeds of consciousness", "application of the new consciousness", for example).
This is not science.
Just let 2012 come so that you will see that you were wrong, and leave us alone.
Good night.
hybrid:
I see no point in continuing the discussion as long as you don't address what I said.
I explained to you the role of the questions I asked you and you continue to claim that they have no role. This is a dialogue with a deaf person and I do not intend to continue it.
I thought this was a scientific forum and comments should be interesting and not defiant.
Please tell me what I said wrong.
2) I don't see any reason to respond to your defiance and I didn't even go in to check what your question was at all because it's not relevant to the progress of the human race.
If Michael is really an ordinary human being and has indeed solved his own riddle, solving the riddle by me will not prove anything again in any case.
In any case, little scientists, you will deny my words even without verifying them or refuting them, just because you have a false feeling that you are educated and enlightened.
Every video, photo or article I see - they are fake = after all, there is an entire industry that makes a million from fake movies, testimonies of innocent people and inventing conspiracies about the government.
What sources do you believe? I will provide you with proof from your sources as well.
hybrid:
Beyond the errors in your words, they are far from answering the questions asked.
Each developmental date is divided into 13 parts, if you like, 7 days and 6 nights as written in the Torah. Like a sine wave that rises to a maximum and falls back to a minimum. Each "day (+)" allows the entry of new consciousness, new ideas, "seeds of consciousness".
In "night (-)" - an application of the new consciousness is realized and opposite poles meet and confront. This goes on and on in an endless motion.
Time, built like a pyramid, in repeating cycles, where each new process is twenty times shorter than the previous one.
The universe was born 16.4 billion years ago.
The first cell appeared on Earth 840 billion years ago.
The mammals, 41 million years ago.
The monkeys, 2 million years ago.
Humans, 102,000 years ago
Agriculture and religion, 5116 years ago,
Institution of the "Law", 1775 AD.
Until 1999 we lived in a time when the "force" prevailed over the law.
Anyone with money or status is basically above the law and allows himself to take power into his own hands.
From the 4th. In January 1999, a new consciousness of "Ethics" began its actions for evolution towards the next stage as we see today in the news.
At the end of this process,
Beyond the global perception that every citizen has on the globe - who is fully aware of the fact that he lives on a globe and there are other people on the earth,
Each of us will also feel part of the galaxy, or in short:
Galactic Consciousness.
February 10, 2011 is the date.
hybrid:
I already thought you flew to your home planet to consult.
When will the chapter on solving the problems I put before you come? What, no one there knew?
What's sad about all this is that this is really the reality.
For thousands of years a force dictates culture, history and religion to people.
The history books were written by the winners.
Even the perception of time and the division of the months of the year were changed to redefine reality for man.
But don't worry, good people, what you see today in the news - how all the corrupt have to deal with the abuse of their power, a rapist president, a prime minister accepting bribes, a thief in the treasury and a criminal police chief -
All of these are strong examples to the public of abuse of power against ethics.
It's all part of a predetermined process of evolution.
In the next chapter I will show you recurring patterns in human history and how each evolutionary process is structured.
hybrid:
Noooo???
Why don't you show us your prowess in solving problems that a simple human like me has solved?
hybrid
The sources you brought are the reason why a TV series like Stargate SG-1 was so successful and is still successful all over the world.
You do give the impression that reality and a fictional TV series are one and the same. This approach is also not a great innovation in light of the fact that our world has become so virtual who can judge what is reality and what is imagination.
The Vatican State - the smallest independent state in the world that has an influence on millions of people all over the world. (Like the Royal Palace in England and the White House in America.)
At its head - Pope Benedict:
or from the side:
Reminds you of someone?
The Philistines worshiped a god who was half man and half fish.
Dagon
As of today, the Catholic Church continues with pagan rituals that include drinking the blood of Jesus and celebrating December 25 - the day of the sun's rebirth.
Modern history was dictated by the Roman Empire which adopted Christianity, combined it with pagan elements and spread it throughout the world.
The calendar was designed by the emperor and the months of the year were given Roman names.
july – Julius
august – Augustus
march – Mars or Mercury the ancient god
and so'
All the nations prior to this period believe in a similar version of the origin of life.
Man was created by gods who came from space.
The sons of the gods multiplied with the daughters of men
The earliest source is found with the Babylonians or Sumerians who believe they are the product of genetic engineering of their ancient goddess.
http://www.halexandria.org/dward183.htm
In your book, everything is already written in the book of Genesis, chapter XNUMX, at the beginning of the story of Noah.
http://kodesh.snunit.k12.il/t/t0106.htm
Other examples can be found in the culture of Egypt and other cultures in South America (the Mayans, for example, believed in half man and half lizard or snake, similar to the Egyptians who lived across the ocean.)
The Dogon tribe in Africa, as part of cultural and religious studies, teaches the history of the star SIRIUS. (By the way, Sirius meets the sun every year on July 4)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogon
By the way, hybrid - I got confused:
You don't need such extreme abilities to solve the problem.
I am only human and yet I solved the problem.
Knows what?
On the same occasion, it was also proven that if a pawn is given that some of its faces are black and some are white, so that there are more black faces than white, but there are no two black faces that share a profession (edge), then it is not possible to block a ball inside the pawn so that it hits all of its faces.
Hybrid:
Come and demonstrate your extraordinary abilities so that we can believe your words.
Do this by solving the problem I gave Airwax in response 56 in the following link:
https://www.hayadan.org.il/animals-one-celled-ancestors-2402081/
hybrid
It is possible that the correct assumption was news today about someone who chose a hospital for the mentally ill
I understand it's confusing to hear it like that,
To understand - just accept the assumption that I am not like you, but I came to help you.
human-hybrid
zeta reticuli, andromeda galaxy
Michael, you have beautiful questions and an appetite for knowledge! I'm glad you're interested.
By what I call the knowledge of men, I mean the popular opinion of what is true or real.
The knowledge I have come to share with you has been on Earth for thousands of years with certain artists and religious people. Some even hid the knowledge from you in order to use it as a power to control.
We have reached a time when knowledge is distributed among humans to prepare them for the synchronization with the center of the galaxy and the openings for new forms of life.
Roni
The key phrase in your response "of course if you don't see it as fiction". Please refer to "The Skeptic" - science and religion, and understand the position of science on the matter.
fBeyond the testimonies
Apparently the Vatican relied on the distinction that many verses in the Bible
(of course if you don't see it as fiction)
Presenting a connection to meeting extraterrestrials=God
For example, Ebanan represents a spaceship in the following verses
Psalms XNUMX: Sing to God, sing his name, ride in the meadows of his name, and ride before him:
Isaiah XNUMX: The burden of Egypt Behold, the Lord rode on a light weight and came to Egypt, and the idols of Egypt moved from before him, and the heart of Egypt melted within him: (Eb turbo)
Psalms Ked XNUMX: The case is in the waters, its risings, the name is thick, riding on it, the movement on the wings of the wind:
Isaiah Yad Yad: I will go up on a platform from the earth to the top: {Bama = back (level)}
(Ef on the ground?? He went crazy and with him he will ascend to the highest???)
Psalms XNUMX:XNUMX: And the heavens came down, and a mist under his feet: And he rode on a cabbage, and flew, and rode on the wings of the wind:
"And he will ride on a cabbage.."
Excellent spaceship or by
Ab or by a chariot as in the story of Elijah
or by means of a wheel or wheel (including chapter XNUMX, which includes a meeting with astronauts)
or by a flying scroll according to Jeremiah
So many science fiction writers in ancient times.
With love Roni
Roni, the same goes for spirits, Jesus, Rabbi Malovevich, and in Japan; Different demons. (In the villages, you'd be surprised how many people can swear by a demon that looks like two enormous legs without a torso running in the forest).
In any case, you know that it is ridiculous to conclude that all of these are real, and it is clear that there is some cultural effect here (I find it hard to believe that the two-legged demon species is endemic to Japan only).
The problem is with the people, with society. and more specifically; in our heads
Dear Ronnie,
I would like to share with you an amazing discovery.
People were launched to the moon about 150 years ago.
Yes, yes, it's not a mistake
The detailed report is summarized in Jules Verne's book "The Journey to the Moon" and everything is written in an incredibly scientific and accurate manner.
There is no dispute that Jules Verne was present from the planning stages to the execution of the launch
As proof of the launch to the moon the facts are as follows:
1. 3 astronauts were sent to the moon like in the Apollo program, did it happen?
2. The launch program cost about 5.5 million dollars equivalent to 12 billion dollars in 1968 the Apollo program until the launch of Apollo 8 cost only 2 billion dollars more is this a coincidence.
3. The dimensions of the control room in Jules Verne's report were similar to those of Apollo 8. Is this a coincidence?
4. The command cabin in Jules Verne's report was made of aluminum like in Apollo 8. Is this a coincidence?
5. The escape velocity of Jules Verne's space cell is very close to the escape velocity we know, is it a coincidence?
6. One of the most important things in Jules Verne's report was the launch location from Florida. The Apollo 8 launch site is the closest place to the equator.
An important factor in the efficiency of the launch, of course, was the landing in the ocean, which was about 4 km
Apollo 8 astronauts landing.
It is clear that Jules Verne could not have so accurately predicted the technology of the journey to the moon that occurred about 150 years later if indeed the launch was carried out in his time.
I have clearly proven that there was a trip to the moon about 150 years ago
Roni will surely agree with me beyond any doubt that about 150 years ago astronauts circled the moon and returned to Earth
We are not like the flock of sheep who write here, right?
How did we return to evolution...?
Dear Ronnie,
There is a great deal of evidence for evolution, which is not based on humans or on a 'cartoon video'. These include fossils that do not imply two faces, such as a dinosaur with wings, a series of fossils that show the evolution of the whale from a land mammal, or the evolution of the horse from a small dog-like mammal). There are connections in the DNA between different organisms, from which far-reaching conclusions can be drawn about the connections between the organisms, which are also correlated with other testing methods.
Even nowadays, evolution proves itself all the time. Bacteria that were vulnerable to antibiotics 50 years ago do not respond to them now. They have evolved. Insects in the fields become immune to sprayed poisons. And this is evolution.
In the laboratory they succeeded in creating new species of flies through evolution, and in nature they showed a radical evolution of different species in periods of less than fifty years.
The principle of evolution is used by biologists every day, and there is no laboratory that does not incorporate the idea of evolution in one way or another in its work - whether in the analysis and comparison of DNA sequences between different organisms, or in the artificial selection of bacteria, viruses and proteins. As a famous geneticist said in the seventies: "Nothing makes sense in biology, unless viewed in the light of evolution."
And the aliens?
Lots of people's testimonies, which cannot be verified (and in most cases can be explained in much simpler ways). Murals of a space vehicle... what does a space vehicle even look like? And maybe the painters just ran riot? After all, chariots existed already 3000 years ago! A painting of Jesus with aliens… well, really. Who told you they were aliens?
By the way, when you claim that scientists are not open to new topics, you are very wrong. When the idea of 'cold fusion' was introduced, hundreds of scientists around the world rushed to their laboratories in an attempt to be the first to gain fame, despite the initial aversion of the scientific establishment to the subject. Same with string theory.
In conclusion, scientists are certainly open to unusual and new topics. The problem is that the issue of aliens has existed for over fifty years and is characterized as a social problem, without material and actual proof.
Roy.
To all the skeptics
There are thousands of video clips and millions of testimonies.
From the caves of ancient man to the present day
If we assume that only 0.01% of the evidence is true
It satisfies me.
This is similar to a dot drawing page, where the child is asked to draw a line between the dots
and discover the painting
Unfortunately, it's probably not enough to be "smart"
or have a master's degree or a professor.
And what is more amazing about evolution
Beyond hundreds of thousands of scientific writings.
Those dealing with theory, the maximum possible
Show this cartoon.
I am interested in returning you 500 years
back and explain to you even before Galileo's telescope
Copernicus claimed that we are a planet revolving around the sun, and not the other way around
Apparently you would laughably dismiss his claim
For conventional "science" is what I am
The flock of sheep calls him, begging him to obey
Blind according to the majority.
and one like Gordano Bruno,
It should be brought to the stake about 400 years ago
Because he visualized the drawing of the universe (he simply managed to draw lines between the dots)
There is no point in persuading or arguing about these kinds of issues
Simply because either you know Photoshop and are able to open the image file in your brain
Or not, and if not, how can it be proven?
With love to all
Roni
Hybrid:
After all, we know that we have been lied to for a long time.
Our dispute with you is about who is lying.
You claim the existence of many things that the human race does not know and I ask how you know them (at least to count them).
Do you understand? It's hard to take seriously people whose words contradict themselves.
Hybrid, please, hurry up and read von-Daniken and leave us alone.
Thank you for trying to teach us science. Your proofs, unfortunately, are worth as much as the skin of garlic.
A painting of Christ and spacemen hangs in a 14th century Christian church.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RcrzD0PfyPs&feature=related
Those interested in watching a nice compilation:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KNZ2xve0zzI
Humans, you must understand that you have been lied to for much longer than it seems.
Your calendar (Gregorian), was created by the Christian church to separate the elements of heaven from man. There is no coordination in the number of days in a month and also there are phenomena of a leap year, etc. (due to the deviation of the earth). During that black period, writings of ancient peoples were also burned and various religions were persecuted.
The Hebrew calendar is based on the moon and not the sun. (By the way, Christians are a pagan religion that worships the sun every Sunday)
According to the counting of time by the Jews, the Mayans, the Chinese and more - there is a connection between the dates and the position of the stars. There is also reference to longer periods of time (era, etc.)
Descriptions of living beings that come from the sky and share knowledge and technology that has existed since the dawn of history. Archaeological findings from ancient Egypt, South America, China, show figures in a space vehicle long before the automobile was even invented.
Even in paintings from the Renaissance period, by Da Vinci for example, flying objects and spacemen are a recurring phenomenon and you can see dozens of examples.
Indeed there is nothing that is "supernatural".
There is only the temporary definition of humans as to what "natural" is.
Science is based on observations and measurements.
Most "proofs" are based on verifying information within a given measurement range.
Being physical beings, we are limited in a certain range of frequencies.
Is there no sound beyond the spectrum that we can hear?
Is there no color beyond the visible spectrum?
Life continues to express itself even outside the limits of human measurement and the technology that exists today.
According to the 2008 scientific map, the hidden outweighs the known.
What little scientists find it difficult to explain they dismiss as nonsense or simply ignore, close their eyes wide and continue with those experiments that do manage to confirm their theories about existence.
Phenomena recently observed in the sun contradict all the basic assumptions of modern physics and force the scientists to wait for the genius of the next generation to explain to them what is happening here on top of the popular journals.
Dear Gillian
I was deeply impressed by your alien wisdom
As an ignorant human being I will ask you for an example according to your method that represents an alien revelation on Earth.
The example you show us could have been
Image, video, voice, telepathy, telekinesis, technology unknown to humans
Thanks and looking forward to it
September:
I won't tell you anything if I say that there is nothing "supernatural" in the world.
Therefore, criticism is natural.
Both faith is natural and so is syphilis.
Since humans are endowed with logic and this tool has proven to be extremely useful, any attempt (albeit natural) to neutralize it can only cause harm.
"Naturalness" is not a consideration at all.
The only consideration is benefit and in this sense it is indeed logical - or natural - to cultivate logic rather than blind faith and uncritical thinking.
Both criticality and faith have a role in nature.
Faith is meant to serve tender children who have not yet learned enough to deal with the world independently, so it is better that they believe what the adults teach them.
Criticism is intended for a later stage - when the person stands on his own authority. It is necessary (but really necessary!) for the formation of new knowledge.
Those who base themselves on faith act infantile in the most accurate sense of the word.
The one who neutralizes criticism guarantees only one thing and that is that knowledge will not be created for him but - at most - faith.
Since the action of "neutralizing" critical thinking is a conscious action (at least for those who have heard the phrase "critical thinking") I see her taking a crazy step.
A madman is someone whose mind has been destroyed (confused) about him, and he is also a product of nature, so I do not accuse the Heizrists of naturalism, but only of madness.
I don't think they are crazy.
In my opinion, this is a natural human tendency. So some attribute it to witchcraft, some to religion, some to anti-Semitism and some to belief in aliens, possibly.
And now I recall the words of Nietzsche (?) in connection with existentialism, about the connection to an ideology or a group.
Perhaps criticism is not natural, so it must be cultivated. I don't think any of us skeptics can testify that his criticality was never nurtured (if not by the environment, then by himself).
The work I'm writing now in philosophy affects me.
Nice weekend.
Yesterday or today I heard on the news while I was driving that somewhere in Africa (I think it was Kenya) people burned someone for witchcraft.
Apparently there were enough people who testified that they saw her as a witch.
The blood plots against the Jews also found a foundation among those who wanted to believe them.
Maybe we should be glad that here we crazy people believe in such harmless things as aliens.
So many "scientific" men try to explain to one woman how to distinguish between facts that are willing to accept and those that are not. Maybe you shouldn't confuse her mind with the "slaves"
Gillian
People's stories are not science. People's stories, regardless of their title and status, are not necessarily true, even if they wrote it in documents.
And by the way - you should know - all the skeptics here actually think that there are aliens - only that there is no evidence that they have arrived on Earth.
No no - I knew that ignorance ruled here, but I confess that even I had no idea to what extent. There is no doubt that I was educated today.
And what is the saddest thing about the whole thing - ignorance can still be forgiven, because a person is not hanged for the crime of lack of knowledge. What's worse in the whole story is the emphasized reluctance and my decision to learn and recognize, because what you all say comes up again and again and again and again because you have no idea what you're talking about at all and apart from repeating mantras worn by companies relevant to the issue, you have no ability to say anything and half a thing. (Unless you want to prove otherwise or then you will be forced to refer to each and every document, and to all the testimonies and statements of the military, intelligence, science, HIA and politicians - until then you are nothing more than stirring the kettle at best).
And even worse - you still consider yourselves scientists, when science is as close to you as it was to priests and bishops in the Middle Ages.
If there is indeed a frequent, clear, unmistakable visit of aliens to our world for decades, then the fact that most of us do not believe the facts, that the phenomenon is not addressed in the professional and critical scientific literature, then this is the most serious scientific failure in history, one that will forever change the way I And surely others will also relate to the reality of the environment as science reveals to us. This will require a shake up of the system. In my opinion, science will not have exclusivity over the revealed knowledge. This is one of the basic questions of our existence - are we alone in the universe? Is life in general and intelligent life in particular a common phenomenon? Where did we come from?
Gillian- There are testimonies, photographs, of various people including scientists (charlatans), pilots (or perhaps astronauts), politicians (who even believes them) who describe demons and spirits and reincarnation. There can be ten witnesses present in the séance who will swear by everything dear to them that the cup moved and instructed them: "Be good" (she usually doesn't say much more than that...) Why don't you believe? There are all the arguments that doubly justify a visit from extraterrestrials.
There is a clear herd effect here, the phenomenon with viral characteristics, the story is being built regardless of reality, therefore there can be testimonies of many viewers. It is very easy for an interested party to fix in memory a reality that does not exist, i.e. changing details in a real event. This has been proven in a large number of interesting and simple experiments in which people are shown a picture, ask a directed question about a detail that was not in the picture but can be related in some way, associative for example, and the detail becomes part of the memory , like a magic wand the experimenter will swear that the individual was there - Gillian you will probably say "he's talking again" read, be a little interested and think about your extraterrestrials again.
Your arguments are horribly weak, I repeat myself, you have not progressed anywhere, you have remained whiners who cry conspiracy for decades. You only have more dubious reports, some of them are cheap scams, some of them were investigated in a negligent manner, intentionally or not, and most of them are human weaknesses. Collecting more details is not science. .
Good night.
Oh, I just saw the extra Hybrid stuff. In any case, why are these things not accepted among the scientific community and no material regarding them has been published in serious journals?
There is a good reason for this.
This is nonsense, that's all.
Gillian,
Simple facts are facts that cannot be explained in any other way. When a ball hits the floor, it hits the floor. It is unequivocal, simple and final.
Lights in the sky can be explained in many ways, even when hundreds of people see them. You must have read about the experiment in which a particularly critical UFO researcher flew a kite with a flashlight at night in front of a group of people, and interviewed them afterwards. People swore to him that "the lights were flying in a supernatural way," and that, "it couldn't have been a human-made aircraft." If I'm not mistaken, one or two of them also told him about their previous encounters with the same alien.
In short, simple facts will arrive the day a real alien arrives on Earth and we can analyze it and test it and the results will be published in the scientific literature. Until then, all there is is the 'reliable evidence' of human beings, whose honesty no one questions. We simply question the interpretation they give to what may, in the end, be a lantern on a kite.
Good night,
Roy.
-------
Science for everyone: http://www.israelscience.weebly.com
I agree with Michael. Apart from that, it is easy to see not very small differences between the children's drawings.
Also, a strange coincidence is that the aliens look D-Y-K like the classic Hollywood aliens. in your life
It's easy to see that they didn't invent it but someone instructed them.
The last sentence betrays this in a really striking way - it is not a sentence that the girl formulated herself because it answers something different from what she was asked and the connection between it and the question stems from other conversations on the subject.
62 children from Africa reported an encounter with aliens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5PQleH2Hz8
Why would children invent such a story and more in such coordination?
Before long, all humans will believe in another life form besides man.
The Vatican has been dictating human culture for 2000 years and today we are witnessing the beginning of a new trend to instill in people the idea that there are other life forms in the universe.
Those who want proof, welcome to watch the following films!
No leaks? Buzz Aldrin from Apollo 11 confirms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkV1ybBnHI&feature=related
Photos from Colombia confirm!
SETI received a message that puzzled them because they could not interpret it - coded in an unfamiliar way.
Skeletons and skulls of gray aliens have been found on earth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IgBr0ZhXEo&feature=related
Surgeries, visits and genetic modulations.
A physical bone is found in a person's body after having an "abduction" experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB31wd3mPSQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkeOUzKRzLY&feature=related
Reliable evidence?
In science, humans have no reliable evidence, period. Certainly not when it concerns such topics regarding which memories change in a very radical way, and there is a lot of "wishful thinking" around these topics.
Anyway, you're right. There is no point in a futile argument with someone who refuses to acknowledge simple facts, or scientific method, or reality.
Roy - for the last time, simply because I'm tired of repeating myself and not only not getting any attention, but also seeing the same worn-out mantras repeated again:
The photographs are only a tiny part of the material and not the most significant part of it - these are documents and hundreds of reliable witnesses who testified not only about the seizures themselves but also about all the events that surrounded them - and we are not talking about private individuals but military, intelligence, scientists and politicians.
If you prefer to continue to ignore all of this - shame on you, there really is no point in continuing this futile debate with someone who refuses to acknowledge simple facts.
The funniest and most repeated claim I've heard from people who believe in the existence of aliens on Earth is: "The Pentagon knows about it but doesn't publish anything."
Gillian,
I don't know everything, or even a small part of everything. I do know that in order to reach understanding and knowledge on a certain subject, I must rely on certain criteria of criticality.
When you make an extraordinary claim, we want extraordinary proof. If you do not provide such evidence, then there is no question of arrogance or arrogance in our refusal to accept your claims. This is simple and basic logic.
Evidence such as hypnosis has already been disproved in many cases. The same goes for eyewitness accounts, which have not been proven to be reliable and are always influenced by the human expectation of seeing what we want - or fear - to see. Photographs can always be faked, and even expert photographers cannot always detect fakes. Lights in the sky can be related to many natural phenomena. And conspiracies ? This is not proof, it is a claim that needs to be proven, and so far it has been disproved in every possible way. The very idea that many different governments are cooperating on such an important issue, without there being even one small leak, is delusional in itself. After all, everyone is fighting everyone else for so much Things, so it's about the aliens that everyone agrees to close their eyes and cover their ears?
I would love to hear really strong evidence for alien visits, but for now there just isn't enough strong evidence.
Good night,
Roy.
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Science for everyone: http://www.israelscience.weebly.com
SEPTEM You forgot. The editors of Nature and Science are under heavy government censorship and withhold information from the public.
Gillian:
I'm glad you're not trying to convince anyone because it's clear to me that the way you're acting you won't be able to do it either and I'm happy for every heartbreak spared to humanity.
On the other hand - you say you bring information.
On the one hand, it is not clear to me why you are doing this if you do not intend to convince, and on the other hand, all the information you bring is your opinion about us. Since the site deals with science there is no need to express an opinion about us. When this opinion is your opinion and as a result it is an opinion without any basis then it is simply a waste of energy for all of us.
I guess the energy crisis is bothering you too so please…
know everything?
I really hope not, because I know quite a bit.
Anyway, you can continue to complain about the terrible ignorance among us. The fact is that no material was published in a serious scientific journal. (And the reasons are not a galactic-wide conspiracy).
So you are trying to convince, you are only presenting dubious and unreliable studies as evidence, and it is clear that the public for the most part does not have the ability to deal with such arguments.
Even the creationists in the USA do not try to convince, they "only" present information to the public (also in the form of studies), so that each person can judge according to the logic and the eyes in their head.
Of course, they fail to mention that these studies have not been published in any serious scientific journal and for good reason.
really.
Roy my friend,
You systematically make mistake after mistake - and your last mistake, the thought that I am trying to convince one of you of something.
Well - the answer is no.
Beyond that - it's better for you to be the first to implement your own suggestions - aka "a little modesty" which you don't know the meaning of and not only are you convinced that you know everything when that's not the case, but even bother to slander the other side as if they don't know anything when the situation is exactly the opposite These are manipulations of the simplest and worst kind and really do not deserve to be considered.
As mentioned, no one is trying to convince you of this, we are only bringing the information to the public so that each person can judge according to the best of his will, logic and the eyes in his head.
Roy,
First it's good to hear your opinion on the matter.
It is not surprising that NRG is giving expression to pseudoscience.
As a site that belongs to the Maariv group, I remember an article by Avi Blizovsky not long ago about a literary critic of the newspaper and his "scholarly" opinion on evolution.
I didn't get any answers from Gillian Mochanan to the questions I asked, they made sure to point out that I was a complete idiot (my interpretation, they didn't say that specifically...).
They boast of evidence and better knowledge than they have on me, they are generally interested and I'm not, it's not knowledge. They only have anecdotes, nothing more, grandmother's stories. It's not science.
Sharon.
Gillian,
From the moment I read your comments on the site, you repeat and claim that "the issue is too big to be presented on the tip of the fork, and everyone here jumps to different and strange conclusions."
So…
I visited your forums,
I read some of your articles in NRG (nice and polished writing, but the material is nowhere near convincing),
I looked at some of the pictures on EURA,
And in general, from the fact that I write for Idan, I am constantly looking for interesting things to write about. It's been a whole year that I haven't come across even one item that dealt with aliens and that was published in a scientific journal.
In short, I'm not even close to being convinced.
So…
When the good people on the site argue with creationists about evolution, for example, they bother to provide actual examples. We know that there is evolution from this and that evidence, and bring important articles and point evidence.
Instead of bragging and declaring in public that we know nothing and you know everything, why don't you bring some actual examples like this? If possible, accompanied by reliable links.
If you really want to convince someone here, this is the only way. And if you really want to convince us, read Carl Sagan's book - 'A Haunted World' - and respond to the arguments in it as well. This book, which you can find in any library (and also at Book Junction), fights the whole alien issue with some of the most well-reasoned and backed-up arguments I've ever come across.
I would love to read what you have to say,
Roy.
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Science for everyone: http://www.israelscience.weebly.com
All the above scriptures demonstrate the fact that no one can ever be cut off from their faith. The church embraces the aliens into its warm bosom as part of the upgrading of the faith. Those with rationalistic tendencies strengthen their perception of their faith by disputing the alien and conspiracy believers. The latter of course hold to their beliefs without question and scorn the ignorant. . There are many who believe in aliens as part of their personality structure as those who feel that they do not belong to this planet and its inhabitants. In my opinion, the latter believers are more numerous than it is common to think. Because many people feel alienated from human society for many reasons. It is easy to see this if we look at the variety of commenters and their reactions.
I just have to say in conclusion to this delusional discussion, and especially in view of some of the recent responses, that I was really amazed at the foreknowledge that some of you demonstrated and which would not have embarrassed the church in the Middle Ages, along with drawing conclusions from which the logic goes on (according to Sharon's last message) but Arrogance oozes from her in the opposite proportion to logic.
And by the way, SEPTEM - I also happen to be involved in photography professionally and not only in photography, but in video and graphic editing, so with all due respect to the fact that you are a professional photographer, you are not dealing with amateurs here - not even in this field, what's more, we are assisted in analyzing photographs with some One of the world's greatest experts in the field.
Apart from that - the photos are not at all the main and central information on the subject, but again, there is no point in arguing with someone who does not even know the very end of the field, but prefers to jump to different and different conclusions according to his own wild imagination.
And I hope that this is where the discussion will really end, because for me at least - it's over and done with.
Great link!
Thanks.
It was an interesting and convincing discussion (again). Thanks to Carl Sagan!
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Science for everyone: http://www.israelscience.weebly.com
Ah, it is not recommended for you to accept the photos of that Assaf Bar from Ashdod (the photos I was talking about, with the smeared lights). They only intensify the lack of seriousness.
Oh my, I visited the EURA website a few minutes ago. I checked the photos page on the website.
Almost half of it consists of images which are absolutely clear that this is a photograph of light sources close to the ground in a long exposure while moving the camera so that a "smear" is created.
And I can testify to that based on my experience as a professional photographer.
There are some pictures there that raise question marks, but I wouldn't rush to determine that these are UFOs, or that they are all authentic.
And in general, the pictures about the destruction of the animals are very puzzling.
Do extraterrestrials have the characteristics of rejected boys who entertain the idea of Satan worship?
Not clear.
Indeed SEPTEM, you are right, I meant one that would be approved by experts in the field, in any case a photo is just an example of the proof we are looking for.
In hypnosis, the therapist has the ability to influence the nature of the retrieved memories, a memory in general when it is retrieved even in a state of full wakefulness and consciousness is sensitive to a biochemical disturbance, for example, it competes again with new memories, the memory that the system decided to be more important will win, an emotional state has a great effect on the ability to encode the This memory.
I may not be an expert in matters of hypnosis, but I know (in fact, this is the prevailing opinion today in the scientific community) that hypnosis is a very (!) unreliable method for retrieving all kinds of memories.
I am actually aware of how "sleep paralysis" is defined. But no, I don't know how a "kidnapping event" is defined, because it is a fictional definition. By the way, I am convinced that there are countless studies that indicate the existence of demons and spirits, there are photographs, too. There are countless testimonies, also of people who were studied by hypnosis.
Still, no article has been published in the serious and respected literature, there is no noise and commotion in the scientific world regarding such and other findings related to the subject, and the majority of the scientific community's opinion is quite clear. The same goes for UFOs and various aliens.
By the way, in the transition from the Middle Ages to the modern era, a huge change was observed. With the start of the alien and UFO era, the reports of demons and spirits (which were almost identical in many ways, from stigmata to sexual examination by the aliens, which were previously reported to have been done by demons) became simply reports of aliens and UFOs.
Sharon, today photographs are also not a problem. There are loads of photographs, some quite clear. Simply because they are so easy to fake.
As an amateur graphic artist, I can certainly testify that it is possible with unimaginable ease to fake an image of any UFO that will look very real and believable, and may even fool experts in the field of visual findings investigation.
So why on earth is this amazing find not in the public domain? This is the most important discovery in the history of the human race.
If scientists confirm politicians confirm why I don't believe. I am well versed in quite a few fields of science. deals in biology. Why didn't I inherit this knowledge? Who is standing between me and the most important discovery in history?
I will answer you - lack of evidence.
Reports of ghosts like demons are more common at night than during the day. Why does every piece of news about an amino acid in a meteorite cause such a big uproar in the scientific community? A very simple living cell will cause a world-wide excitement. Scientists who believe in Abami are encouraged to publish their findings through the usual channels. Everything is published in Abami's literature, therefore it arouses suspicion as unreliable. Carl Sagan Peace be upon him asked why millions of security cameras are deployed all over the US. Why is there no clear photo of an extraterrestrial? I will add - more than a decade has passed since then, millions of webcams are deployed in the world, why is there not one clear shot. You will probably turn me away, say Bor and with the land there is, search and be interested. One clear photo, which has undergone a thorough examination will change the way we perceive life here, others will examine I trust them, they are greater experts than me. It would be fantastic if there are aliens, you almost convinced me, I'm almost tempted to believe...but no, no, the evidence is weak, most of it is fabricated and it has been proven and there are many reasons to fabricate. Some of the evidence in your possession, dear Hanan and Gilligan, is fabricated, you must be sure otherwise you are gullible to believe anything. Others have a different explanation. Psychological, an input problem in the eye-brain connection - the brain is the one that sees not the eye, atmospheric phenomena, crazy people, cheaters, greedy people. I have no tools to check. I believe the scientific community more than myself if there was life outside the earth, if this was reality I would know it believe me.
Equations? Gilligan - You haven't discovered mathematics yet, a little modesty. In order to engage in any science, you need certain qualities, some of which are common to all sciences and some of which are unique to each branch. Embology only needs to be comfortable to believe.
Sorry to be blunt again. I am a rationalist. An endangered species.
Wait, maybe I'm wrong? Maybe after all…
No! The evidence is too weak, biased, evasive, afraid to be exposed, hiding behind conspiratorial governments even in a decade of information.
SEPTEM - Do you know what the hypnotic regression process is? Do you understand what you wrote in your answer? Do you know what hypnosis is used for?
Unfortunately, you have proven that you have no idea what a hypnotic process is, what it is used for, what is defined as an "abduction" event, what is defined as a sleep paralysis event, etc...
FYI, there is no argument here, because an argument can be conducted if both parties are discussing a subject known to both. Your answer and your previous answers only prove that you are not at all familiar with the subject I am discussing.
Sharon Yedidi - A. To all the questions you asked the answer is "no".
What do I have to say to the believers in ETC fairies? If they present me with conclusive and factual evidence as there is in the field of UFOs, I will be ready to examine the evidence one by one.
For the millionth time - we are engaged in research, not in beliefs, not in delusions and not in nonsense. By the way, you are invited to read our column in NRG (I'm just warning you in advance that there are dozens of articles) in order to start and understand what it is actually about.
There is no infrastructure that is built stone by stone??? On the contrary, not just an infrastructure but a whole picture, built stone by stone precisely and polished.
At the same time - in my humble opinion it is better to stop the discussion here and there is no point in continuing it because it is not possible, for example, to discuss equations with someone who has not yet learned the multiplication table.
Oh, hypnosis you said?
At this moment you have literally lost all your credibility.
And if you don't know why, then it's even worse. Now, when you talked about implants and kidnappings, I really know who I'm dealing with and it's clear to me that there's no point in arguing.
Heath, I went to wrap buckets in foil. (must prepare for the near future).
Gillian, unfortunately you didn't get the joke.
When I wrote "It's sad to see..." I was just having fun at your expense, when in your message you simply wrote a passage that is so typical in debates with rabbis. That's why I repeated it in religious form, I thought you would notice.
Thank you for appreciating my intelligence.
By the way, as with any scientific theory, as the writer pointed out in the above comment, there should be a refutation scenario. I would appreciate it if you offered such a scenario for the alien UFO theory (realistic, of course. Not requiring us to pack up and go on a trip to Andromeda).
And if you bring up the matter of nuclear weapons again...
A UFO did not fall on Hiroshima which resulted in the death of many people.
(And there is no math around the matter either).
so good luck.
To the last commenter -
Again you are caught in terms that we never engaged in this discussion.
We are not talking about beliefs and we are not talking about mere evidence (even though they have been accepted among the scientific community as proof of the existence of quite a few cases in the world).
We discuss:
1. Physical findings that have undergone laboratory tests - including findings from Israel, signed by experts in their field.
2. There is no connection between the brightness of stars and reports of UFOs. This is an invention made by some astronomers who tried to refute all UFO reports in a comprehensive way. (I wonder why they did not refer to the reports of astronauts and cosmonauts, who testified that they encountered UFOs in space? ).
3. Your claim as if this is evidence and nothing else, only proves that you do not know the subject at all.
4. The argument that UFOs were observed at night is also devoid of any basis. UFOs were observed and photographed in daylight and in fact at all hours of the day.
5. Who talked about sexual abuse???? We are talking about cases where people suffered from loss of time, burns that originated from exposure to radiation, implants were discovered in their bodies - and I am not talking about cases of sleep paralysis. I'm talking about events in which several people were involved, events that were investigated for years by hypnosis and clinical tests, etc.
In conclusion - skepticism is an excellent quality, but you cannot claim skepticism without trying and checking the existing findings and data. If there is a specific figure, it can be discussed. If your information is not based on anything (more correctly - the information you have does not exist at all), then it is not possible to discuss the issue.
Therefore, if you want to discuss a specific or general case, then you should refer to the merits of the matter and not make claims that are not based on anything but private belief...
3.
reality? facts? What are you talking about, NASA is investing billions and looking for faint clues to the basic molecules of life on Mars, the way you present things is throwing sand in our eyes, you make us skeptics identified, disconnected, the bitter truth is that your way of thinking is the delusional one here.
A personal question - do you believe in ghosts? in demons? in fairies? in fire-breathing dragons? in Jesus appearing every night? in the Loch Ness monster? in Elvis Presley's tears from wax pictures?
If the answer is yes (at least to some things), then you are comfortable believing and lack a basic sense of skepticism.
If the answer is no, then I would like to hear what you say to the thousands of believers, experts, pilots, astronauts, scientists who believe in these things? What do you claim against them?
"There is nothing to find your way around here" I repeat myself, there are testimonies of people. There is no complicated mathematics here, there is no theory here, there is no way to disprove it, there is no infrastructure of knowledge that is built stone by stone, there is nothing more than wishful thinking here. There is a direct correlation between the brightness of the planets and the reports of ghosts, there is solid evidence from psychologists about the connection between reports and childhood sexual abuse, these guys for some reason always come at night, they never leave signs, they have been investigating us too much already Time, I would pay a lot for the article…
I have a much bigger idea than you think in scientific thinking, I have a skepticism that is completely absent from you and your friends and I do not consider myself intelligent. Just a terribly boring rationalist.
I'm sorry SEPTEM - that's not true.
Not "all over the world the scientific community rejects these arguments".
And who exactly do you mean by "those who reject the theory of evolution"? Because if you mean us, you've made a big mistake again.
It's a shame, a very shame that people talk without knowing not only what they're talking about, but also (and perhaps mainly), with whom. Let's just say that this does not indicate excessive intelligence.
Not in Israel. When did I say that I meant the scientific community in Israel?
All over the world the scientific community rejects these arguments. (Remember the serious reporters?)
It is sad to see how people who consider themselves enlightened can ignore the reality of Jesus our Savior. To bury their heads in the sand in front of the evidence against the theory of evolution and the existence of the soul after the death of the body.
Oh, I'm actually not a Christian missionary. Damn.
May the light of His majesty fill your hearts with golden butterflies.
Sharon - if you consider yourself a smart and intelligent guy, you would have been better off if you hadn't said the ridiculous phrase "there is nothing to find your way around here".
In addition, all the arguments you tried to assert against Hanan are fundamentally wrong, and I have no idea where you got them from. Are we not renewing anything? We personally may not - but hundreds and thousands of military, intelligence, science and political personnel have certainly innovated a lot over the past 30 years and are adding to the innovation. As mentioned - I suggest you keep up to date with the information and not pull it from your hip without having a clue of what you are talking about.
Full of ignorance, but also arrogance??? Inappropriate and inappropriate.
Septem - in the opinion of which scientific community exactly? in Israel? Sorry, but Israel is still not the center of the world - I suggest you check the situation in the USA, England and France for example.
It is unfortunate to see how much ignorance prevails among people who at least consider themselves to be enlightened and intelligent people, but in practice they bury their heads in the ground and are blind (perhaps on purpose) to reality and facts that they either do not know or do not want to know - and this is where the discussion ends.
I know that on one of the stars God sent his house together to atone for... and the story is known
I heard that in one of the stars God sent his brother to atone for... and the story is well known
By the way, Sagan is credited with my few (few but important, in my eyes) information on the subject of the human soul. His book is definitely a defining book in my life.
By the way, in that thread Hanan recommended the broadcasts of the History channel in all that is related to the alleged supernatural. Sorry, but if this is the level of professionalism you were talking about, I'm not that impressed.
The broadcasts of the History Channel are mixed with monstrous megatons of pseudo-science and pseudo-research, where popularity is probably the main motive for making these programs in such a way.
In my opinion, a good idea would be to form a sort of group of researchers (among them James Randi, KM and BN), and with their help make a documentary program about all these matters. And it's better to spice it up with a little humor.
Sort of, the sharp and precise style of "Penn & Teller: Bullshit".
Anyway, I don't think anything similar will come up in the next few years. The public is interested in other things. Crystals, opening chakras, world conspiracies. This is a sure recipe for progress!
September:
You couldn't hit better.
They are not "like" the twin conspiracies but they are exactly the same people.
See for example the Hybrid responses here.
They are also the successors of all the people who have seen witches in the past and are the cousins of those who still see visits from the Holy Mary.
I didn't have the strength to look for the comments here of one called "Efrat". She in general has an interesting mixture of aliens with demons from religious sources.
I'm already quite desperate from the debate with you because I realized that, as Hanan and Gillian say, I lack the relevant knowledge, but unlike them, I think that the knowledge I lack is not knowledge about the aliens, but rather knowledge about the human race and its soul. It might be proof for them that I'm an alien, although for me it's just proof that I'm not a psychiatrist.
So the governments hide the findings from us and Bush sends agents to thwart EURA meetings. The opinion of the scientific community is still clear on the subject.
I would be happy if, in a few years, serious universities open degree tracks in extraterrestrial nanotechnology. So you can also tell me "I told you so."
In the meantime, we'll live and see. You are left with the worldwide conspiracy theory (along with the ID people, the guys who claim Bush bombed the Twin Towers, Loch Ness buffs, and a few others), and dubious research. (It's good that they were published, but where? There are many periodicals that claim to be scientific, but are not serious. Therefore, they did not receive the status they deserved among the scientific community).
Hanan, what you don't understand is that you are the one speaking out of private faith. The knowledge about an intelligent being visiting here is not in the public domain and is not part of current human scientific knowledge. You believe, your right, I can believe what I want, at some point my psychiatric definition will start to be relevant.
Interestingly, the governments of the world are divided among themselves on many issues - economy, politics, security, human rights, religious belief and many other issues. In the matter of aliens, everyone agrees - silence. Everyone agrees that this information should be secret, hidden from public view, for their benefit or not. This is bullshit. There is a large scale influx over decades of extraterrestrial life but the governments manage to hide it all is your punchline argument. It is too weak.
Materials of unknown origin exist on Earth - one explanation is that we don't know all the materials, just like we don't know all the types of fossils, dozens are discovered every year. Besides, there are materials that arrive on top of meteorites. There are other explanations, of course.
You are not innovating anything compared to the generation of believers that preceded you and your successors will also tell about conspiracies, I am convinced.
Grow up.
There is nothing to get your bearings here, the matter is very simple, don't turn it into a complicated story, it doesn't require more than a high school education. If I thought there was something about the giants I would be interested (and as a boy I was certainly interested) in them as in other fields of science in which I am interested and happily engaged. There is nothing interesting about the people, unfortunately. The list of scientists above is not impressive. For every name there are about 100 names of equally respectable non-believers. This does not say anything about the correctness of the matter, of course.
Proof, gentlemen, is the name of the game. No conspiracies. There are none. There are stories. Like Elvis Presley or the monster from Loch Ness or whatever.
Sharon - without going into unnecessary details above this stage - you are very wrong, surely this science has advanced in the last 70 years and not only advanced - but very advanced. Just proves how out of touch you are and this is exactly our argument towards you - you claim to be familiar with a field you don't even begin to be familiar with and it's a shame.
Of course, I do not intend to open a discussion here on the topic of aliens and UFOs, and again - only because people continue to write here from their private belief and not from knowledge or checking the data, I find it appropriate to answer the arguments that have been put forward.
Septem - For your information, information about UFOs has been published in independent scientific publications - both in the scientific press and in studies by government research institutes in various countries (I would be happy to direct you and others to a partial list of these scientific studies).
To remind you - there are no books or academic studies, for example, detailing what Israel's nuclear arsenal is and what the non-conventional arsenal it possesses. Not all scientific information is published in the public domain, and not all scientific research is published in major scientific journals. The subject of UFOs is much more confidential than nuclear secrets and information on this subject is rarely published.
And if you've already asked and I'll remind you - we have studies conducted in Israel, signed by senior figures - including Prof. Yehuda Hiss for example (former head of the Pathology Institute). I again invite you and others to get in touch and get details...
Sharon - I read Sagan's book and others, but you (or maybe you) still continue to make claims that have no basis. Do you know all the publications made in the field of UFOs and scientific research? Do you know the testimony of over 400 senior government/military/scientific personnel within the Disclosure Project? Have you ever tried to review the conclusions of the French COMETA project? Before you bring me books that I read a long time ago, I suggest that you also update yourself on a little of the existing material on the subject that I have been researching for over 10 years professionally and for about 18 years in general. Don't blow arguments into the air, without them being based on some research. This is not the scientific way (and we are not talking here about faith or religion, but about scientific studies and NT!!!).
Those who were and are behind the study of UFOs are first class scientists. Prof. Alan Heinke, Stanton Friedman, Dr. Bruce Maccabi, Prof. John Mack, and many, many others. The argument as if there is no serious scientific research on this subject has nothing to do with it. There are many studies on physical findings, studies and analyzes of photographs and films as well as testimonies from very senior figures: scientists, astronauts, pilots, military officers, government officials and more. As I suggested - instead of speaking casually out of sentimentality and impulsiveness, I would be happy to refer anyone interested to this information. If someone continues to ignore the information and stick to their arguments without trying to research the information or at least examine it, then this is the embodiment of pure faith and not scientific research. Against blind beliefs I have no cure (maybe the Holy See in Rome has 😉 )
As for the question I presented above to Roy, which deals with the timing of the Vatican announcement, I am probably not the only one to think about the strangeness of the circumstances:
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/62208
And of course, gentlemen. I will be happy to answer any question as detailed as possible and as much as I can, provided that the question is asked in a serious manner. I apologize in advance if it seems like this is a polemic, but no - the whole intention is to discuss the issue in a respectable and serious manner and not to preach morality to anyone. Anyone who wants to ask should ask. Although this is written above, I allow myself to deviate from my practice, and publish additional details (which are published on the association's website). I am definitely interested in discussing the matter with people who are involved in science and who are close to the scientific world. Feel free to contact me in any way you want. In my opinion, the comment forum here is not the most efficient way to develop a serious discussion.
Looking forward (maybe) to a serious discussion:
Hanan Sabat
Email: eura.isr@gmail.com
site: http://WWW.EURA.ORG.IL
Phone: 052-2565893
The claims you make about the aliens are nothing new and in fact it's not your fault - the track of visiting extraterrestrials-"proofs"-concealment has existed for decades, roughly since the first third of the 20th century. You, the members of the respected Israeli association and the world equivalent of alien believers are unable to promote the scientific knowledge they possess. This is the only scientific knowledge that has not advanced in 70 years as far as I know. The meaning of additional life other than those on Earth, and certainly intelligent life has unprecedented, philosophical, scientific and technological consequences and to claim that a wide-ranging worldwide conspiracy is behind it, is denied (I apologize for being blunt). Carl Sagan "In a World Haunted by Demons" offers excellent, reasoned arguments and asks difficult questions, like a real scientist who devoted a significant part of his life and intellectual resources to researching the possibility of life, even if it is the most primitive in the universe - he raised a piece of clay in his hand, as an intellectual test read the book (again?) And see if you can really handle it, read the whole thing not just the chapters on aliens. Any material that someone has is welcome to stand the test, that's how science works, but the onus of proof is on you and your friends. Greater scientists than the Vatican scientist made various claims in the past that were debunked, so stick to his scientific education (I'm not disrespecting) and say here a scientist says... it's not serious. I am convinced that most scientists do not believe in the flying objects that visit here often and do whatever they want and leave no trace. A black hole is not an alien, there are good reasons to believe in the existence of black holes or atoms or quarks, there are observations, equations, models, one can deduce their existence indirectly. Your aliens are not like that. Maybe they are coming? Maybe not? Their arrival cannot be put to the test. Someone saw, nice. They saw a lot, a lot of beauty... enough such cases were revealed as anything but a visiting intelligent being. At the base of your beliefs are human weaknesses, childish, built into our nervous system, reflect a disposition of the heart, but do not stand up to the test of reality. Carl Sagan in Haunted World answers you.
read it He was a wise (and nice) man. Israel can be an excellent ground for belief in aliens, it is loaded with pseudoscience. It's just a matter of fashion apparently.
Right.
There are many adults who can learn from this child.
Well spoken. I support every word.
In my humble opinion, if no serious article has yet been published in one of the serious journals, there is a reason for that. Every study, before it is published, goes through a murderous peer review, and it's a good thing.
Apparently, the studies in question regarding pieces of extraterrestrial technology did not pass the test.
Many of the claims about this ignoring and suppression of the scientific community, or about the fact that the findings are in my hands in all kinds of governments, simply remind me too blatantly of the whole idea of "men in suits made everything disappear".
Reminds me of the Roswell nonsense. To this day they still claim that a UFO landed there.
I think the scientific community would eagerly jump on any piece of information regarding UFOs or extraterrestrials. There is a pretty clear policy of disclosing information and passing it on, sharing the information.
But there is no fuss about it. And in fact, there is not even a drop of sound.
Research is nice, even for the rabbis, studies that apparently testify to many things, scientific breakthroughs, among others. From the non-programming of evolution to the correctness of the geocentric model.
After all, none of these studies found their way into the considered and serious reports of the scientific community. It is very possible that thanks to the peer review that every study has to go through before it is published in one of these journals.
So all the shouts about the scientific community being closed, or not open to ideas, or suppressing findings, simply sound like the arguments of the creationists in the USA.
What is the wisdom of showing me studies and convincing me? I'm a boy, that's all. I do not have an academic education, and it is likely that I do not have the tools to deal with any of these claims that may be presented to me. Try to publish the studies among the scientific community, in the considered and serious articles I talked about before, so I can read about the things in the textbooks.
Jonathan - and for anyone who has demanded a piece of alien technology or material of extraterrestrial origin, then I invite him to contact me. First, I would be happy to refer him to the studies conducted here in Israel regarding such materials and second, I would be happy to refer him to further research and additional physical findings that exist. Just for the record, in the hands of citizens in Israel and around the world, there are over 5000 remains of materials that were mostly tested by laboratories (including the laboratories at Los Alamos, and the most respected laboratories in Israel) and which, regarding the findings, have been proven not to have originated on Earth and are not from a known source. These findings Found at UFO landing sites and other UFO events. The established science community refuses to address these findings at all.
Regarding Jonathan's alien piece. You do not expect such a thing to be found in civilian hands, just as I would not expect you to be able to prove to me that Israel has or does not have atomic bombs and ask you for some plutonium to prove it. Information and findings of this type, since time immemorial, have been taken and scattered in different places and it goes without saying that they are not circulating on the streets.
Now, I would be grateful to anyone who can, in the same scientific and empirical tone, present me with some black hole material so that I can be convinced that they exist in reality. This demand is absurd, just like the demand that I, as a private person, present an alien corpse or an extraterrestrial spacecraft in its entirety.
And in a bit of seriousness, I'm sorry for responses like Septem's response that only make me sad that people simply try to express themselves on topics they have never tried to study or research and continue to depend on their private beliefs or information they have gathered from the entertainment channels. The term "vain beliefs" is an argument that is thrown out into the world without having anything behind it. This is not a scientific argument but only a mental one.
Therefore, if someone wants to claim something, rather. who will present the argument behind which some information can be based on and will not blow arguments into the air.
I will personally try to answer as much as I can to any question I ask on the subject and/or refer the questioners to the sources of information that I have.
In the meantime and as of now, I have not received a single reasonable question, except for the matter that I attach importance to what the Vatican is saying (to Roy's response). I quite attach importance to what the Vatican says, just because of its influence on most of the Western world. It must be understood that the Vatican has a wide-ranging suspicion of all levels of the Christian population in the world and interviews like these would not have been published there until a decade ago. This is not the first statement by the Vatican and its people on this issue, and the matter should be linked to the increasing exposure and increasing interest in this issue in the world.
Unfortunately, the information hardly reaches Israel, but Larry King on CNN recently devoted quite a lot of full programs to this topic, as well as quality documentaries on the History Channel. Although we live in a country where what interests most of the public is the question of who won "survival", but you can find updates on UFO issues in the world on the association's website.
Finally, I didn't say anything out loud. Anyone who wants to contact us with a serious question of one kind or another, we are at his disposal. Our e-mails and telephone numbers are on the association's website. Everything is visible and everything can be discussed.
Hanan Sabat
The UFO Research Association
http://WWW.EURA.ORG.IL
Opens a window to more vanity beliefs. sad.
I wonder what the reaction of the Holy See will be, if the aliens who arrive on Earth decide to convert to Islam, put diapers on their heads and join the ranks of Hezbollah and bin Laden?
Hanan,
It seems to me that you put too much faith in the hidden intentions of the Popes, what is more, this is an interview with an astronomer from the Vatican, and not the Pope himself.
Mr. Sabat
We will follow a scientific path with you
As long as you don't show us a piece of alien technology or alternatively if you have an alien friend show him to humanity.
The burden of proof is on you.
The authors are scientifically correct.
Did any of the respected commenters who commented above, put in their mind why this message was said and issued from the Vatican precisely in these days when the reports of the British Ministry of Defense on the issue of UFOs began to be published?
To remind you and for those who didn't know, the subject of UFOs has been researched and investigated for a long time. Monsignor Baldozzi even expressed himself numerous times on this subject). For those who are knowledgeable in the field, the Vatican's announcement is not ridiculous or strange (the comments written here above are not worthy of reference at all, and they are the ones that are actually ridiculous), but puzzling.
The Vatican is not a body that issues messages in the style of Rabbi Ovadiya. Behind every message there is some kind of intention. The speed with which people disdain or sneer in front of a subject that does not agree with their opinion is the one that is most ridiculous.
Especially for the dear commenters, remember the quote by Prof. Alan Heinke, who said: "Laughter is not a scientific argument". Therefore, if you want to bring a certain argument, whether for something or against it, bring it and present it - relying on studies or findings. Grinning and baring teeth, come back like a boomerang, since there is nothing in them except the grinner's personal belief, which is not based on knowledge or research.
I suggest to all the snickers (especially since this is a well-known and widespread Israeli phenomenon), to ask themselves why the words were said and not to attack the person who said them, just because he is a person who belongs to some religious movement - and don't forget that the speaker is an astronomer. This argument was made for other reasons, the timing of which is currently unclear. Ask yourself smart questions and don't shoot before you ask.
Hanan Sabat
The Israeli Association for UFO Research
http://WWW.EURA.ORG.IL
Can God be seen from the Vatican Observatory?
Hahahahaha I'm reading and suddenly in the middle of a paragraph I realize that there is a serious discussion about whether a shaved monkey died for the sins of aliens in another galaxy hahaha oh humanity... such a question they wouldn't have thought to ask a few years ago I wonder what nonsense they will invent to deal with more discoveries. It reminded me of how the conquistadors came to South America, they sent a priest to talk to the local leader, he gave him the Bible and asked him if he accepted Jesus as his personal savior, the poor man didn't know what they wanted from him and didn't even know how to open the book So he threw it away, (which of course set a precedent for the elimination of the entire local population) In short, it is doubtful whether a purple alien 20 meters tall would have any idea what to do with a book
Wait.. how can there be aliens?
It doesn't add up to basic logic.
The sun revolves around the earth and the earth is the center of the universe.
I will even mention that the stars of the Sabbath are nothing more than points drawn on a firmament that surrounds the earth from the outside, therefore aliens cannot settle in them.
moment! The earth is even flat!!! And Copernicus betrays!! And Galileo is an infidel!!!
The collection of nonsense, about sheep and shepherds, courtesy of the same religion that holds that under no circumstances should the use of rubber buffers be used, even at the cost of AIDS.
You can finally relax, the Vatican has given us permission to believe in aliens.
grin
To Avi Biltavsky the spaceship Progress is approaching the space station