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What is a machine as smart as God would like?

The field of "scientific theology" deals with the question of the ultimate vocation of thinking

In Dyson's 1988 collection of essays, he envisions an intelligence spreading across the entire universe and turning it into a vast cosmic mind. "What will the mind choose to do when it knows and controls the entire universe?" Illustration: pixabay.
In Dyson's 1988 collection of essays, he envisions an intelligence spreading across the entire universe and turning it into a vast cosmic mind. "What will the mind choose to do when it knows the entire universe and controls it?" Illustration: pixabay.

By John Horgan, the article is published with the permission of Scientific American Israel and the Ort Israel Network 20.12.2016

One of the advantages - or disadvantages? – that being a seasoned science buff is that new things often seem like an old story. for example, At an artificial intelligence conference recently, I was listening to smart people talk about the desires of super-intelligent machines, and I couldn't stop thinking about things I'd heard, seen, and read before.

As several of the speakers said, countless works of science fiction have already imagined what artificial minds might want. The common cinematic answers are power (“2001: Space Odyssey","Terminator","Matrix"), freedom ("I am a robot","Ex prepares") and love ("artificial intelligenceSteven Spielberg's "She” by Spike Jonze).

But what will happen if the machines get all the power, freedom (some say it's the same thing) and love they need? What would happen if all the machines merged into one huge brain? At that time, freedom, power and love, which are social goals, will become irrelevant. What would this cosmic computer want? How will he pass the time?

in my bookThe end of science” I called this kind of speculation “scientific theology”. Among those involved in the field, Freeman Dyson He is my favorite. In 1979 Dyson published in the journal Reviews of Modern Physics an article titled Time Without End: Physics and Biology in an Open Universe, which was written as a reaction toHis comment The physicist's infamous Steven Weinberg, according to which: "The more understandable the universe seems, the more purposeless it seems."

No universe with intelligence is without purpose, Dyson replied. He tried to show that even in an eternally expanding universe, intelligence could always exist and reject the The heat death of the universe Through smart conservation of energy.

B"infinite everywhere”, Dyson's collection of essays from 1988, he imagines an intelligence spreading across the entire universe and turning it into a vast cosmic mind. "What will the mind choose to do when it knows the entire universe and controls it?" Dyson asked. "We cannot hope" to find an absolute answer to this question, he claimed, because the question is theological and not scientific:

"I do not clearly distinguish between the intellect and God. God is what the understanding becomes after it passes our ability to perceive. God can be the soul of the world, or a collection of such world souls. At the current stage of its development, we are the primary offshoots of our planet's God. In the future we may grow together with him, or be left behind."

Scientific theologian Freeman Dyson on the subject of the future of reason: "I do not clearly distinguish between the mind and God. God is what the mind becomes after it passes through our ability to perceive." (Photo: Jacob Applebaum, (Flickr- (CC BY-SA 2.0)
Scientific theologian Freeman Dyson on the future of reason: "I do not clearly distinguish between reason and God. God is what the understanding becomes after it passes through our ability to perceive." (Photo: Jacob Applebaum, (Flickr- (CC BY-SA 2.0)

Dyson's ideas were influenced by the science fiction writer (and philosopher). Olaf Stapledon, who died in 1950. in his books The first and last person וCreator of the stars, Stapledon imagined what the brain would become millions or billions of years later. He hypothesized that a cosmic intelligence would want to create. She will become an artist, whose works are entire universes.

It's a cool idea (and implies that we're living in one of these works of art), but I prefer Dyson's hypothesis. He hypothesizes that a cosmic mind would not be an artist but a scientist, a seeker of knowledge. When I interviewed Dyson in 1993, he confidently asserted that the search for knowledge will never end, because knowledge itself is infinite.

His optimism is derived, in part, fromgrown up sentence, according to which in every set of axioms there are questions that cannot be answered within those axioms. From this sentence it follows that mathematics is "open", and therefore it is possible to continue to develop it forever.

"Since we know that the laws of physics are mathematical," Dyson told me, "and we know that mathematics is an untraceable system, it seems logical to some extent that physics is also untraceable" and therefore open.

It was hard for me to imagine the cosmic computer at the end of time - in other words, "God" - dealing with mathematical or physical puzzles. In my opinion (drug induced, I admit) he will wonder about the riddle of his own origin. Here is the big question: Will he solve this mystery, the mother of all mysteries, or will he remain forever unsolved?

Addendum: It is worth mentioning two more scientific theologians. the physicist Frank Tipler, In his book The physics of immortality (1994), claims that in the end times a machine like El will bring back to life every creature that has ever lived, in a blissful cybernetic paradise. The sex will be fantastic. the writer Stanislav Lem, described in his book Solaris From 1961 an encounter between humans and an intelligent planet and claimed that superintelligence would be incomprehensible. His point of view is negative theology, according to which God will forever be beyond the reach of our knowledge. The brilliant twist in Lem's plot is that the ancient human mind is also quite incomprehensible.

The article is taken from her author's blog, Cross-Check, on the Scientific American website, and its content reflects the views of the writer and not necessarily of the editors of Scientific American.

40 תגובות

  1. The form and substance in the wisdom of Kabbalah

    Following the interesting article, I felt a desire to rewrite a few lines from Baal Sulam's article about an ancient wisdom that was forgotten but is also being discovered more and more today. Therefore I will not list details here but only in a general way!

    According to the owner of the scale, science is divided into two parts: the first part is called "material education" and the second part is called "formal education". that you have no essence in our world in which we cannot find substance and form.
    For example, the table has a material, namely the wood. And it also has a shape that is the shape of the table. Likewise, the word "liar" has a substance which is the person, and it has a form which is the lie. As for the substance that is man bears the form of the lie, like a man accustomed to lying. And so it is in everything
    And so science is also divided into two parts:
    - Material education
    – Formal education

    The part of science that deals with the nature of the materials of reality alone or materials together with the form is what is called "material education" and is founded on an experimental basis, that is, on the rigors and proofs of empirical experience, therefore it is certainly a basis for true conclusions.
    And the second part of science deals with abstract forms without taking into account the material. That is, theoretical forms without testing and proving it experimentally. And this is the formal education that is not founded on an actual experimental basis but on the imagination. And all philosophy belongs to this education.
    This is the reason why philosophy gave way to experimental psychology, aka behaviorist psychology. And it was the scientist Wilhelm Wendt who was the first scientist to establish the first laboratory for the study of behavior (1879). And he was the founder of the beginning of experimental psychology.
    Wendt was influenced by chemistry and Mendeleev's periodic table. According to Wendt, those simple elements are potential for connection with other elements that will grow new characteristics that did not exist before.
    In other words, a large part of the modern educated gave up formal education (philosophy), because they saw that they could not draw clear and true conclusions based on theories that are not based on an experimental basis.
    And here, the wisdom of Kabbalah is also divided under the same two parts. which are "material education" and "formal education". But here, unlike the science we know, even that part of the formal education, is built entirely on the critique of practical reason. That is, on an experimental basis.
    And how? By the fact that the results obtained are the result of a change and upgrading of the abilities of the person who changed his inner self, calibrated himself, and thus the same material of the person who built a suitable tool within him, is the place where that formal education is clothed.
    That is why there is an iron rule among the sages of Kabbalah: "Whatever we do not achieve, we will not define it with a name or a word."
    And what is achievement? Achievement is the final level of understanding.
    I didn't want to prolong it because I know that a significant part of the readers will shift uncomfortably in their seats in view of what I wrote. But I felt an inner obligation to discover a fraction of what this tremendous wisdom has to offer

  2. You can discredit them as a religion as much as you want, but you still can't claim a group of religious people who also support some party or leader are atheists without your claim being false.
    By the way, I personally do not agree with you that there is no moral theory in a dictatorial regime. Maybe a moral theory is as bad as in almost all the religions invented by humans, but one still exists.

  3. I do not consider worshiping a leader or a party as a religion even though the signs are the same, moral theory does not exist in a dictatorial regime. Religions are not a guarantee for morality, even though they are basically a moral theory. See ISIS and even in the spectrum of religious extremism: the youth of the hills, ultra-Orthodox who resort to violence against IDF soldiers. and at lower levels the non-acceptance of the different and the other. In my view, a person should have the right not to believe in God, or to believe in him, without insisting on imposing his opinion on the other. The Enlightenment as expressed in the 18th-21st centuries, and sharpened in the light of the anti-enlightenment movement similar to Professor Sternhal's book Anti-enlightenment, seems like a reasonable basis to start talking about morality and human values.

  4. Yosef

    Also take back what you said about the Nazis. They were not atheists and their hatred for the Jews is well rooted in the religious background of the German population at the time.

  5. I take my words back. Philosophy and science fill the void of spirituality. But most people choose materialism.

  6. In the 13 principles of the Jewish faith it is said that he does not have the image of the body and is not a body. I have learned in my life that there are those who look at the world and believe in it, and there are those who look and think there is no God. There are no fools on either side. Yeshayahu Leibovitz looked at his understanding that there is a God and the only purpose is to worship him in the "idiotic" way of ultra-Orthodox Jews. Richard Dawkins looked and saw there was no God. The religion that does not have a single value mapping to God has done 2 things throughout history. Moral theory on the one hand and many wars and injustices on the other. But atheists like the Nazis also committed injustices. Nowadays it is linked to a lot of hatred of the other, hatred of the gay, the lesbian, the restriction of the woman, the foreigner. It's a shame, because in my opinion there is nothing to fill the vacuum in the void created by her absence.

  7. I don't understand how such a publication does not mention - not even a single word - the greatest science fiction writer Isaac Asimov, a large part of his works deal with computers with artificial intelligence ("There is no one here except..."; his stories about the computer "Multibuck", the series of robot books Those with the "positron brain" and those with self-awareness, etc.).

  8. The article mixes two fields and in my understanding - the source of the confusion is Dyson himself. Artificial intelligence will grow bottom-up. That is, from simple systems that will evolve to more and more complex systems.
    God is (in my understanding) a top-down concept, meaning a very complex system that chose to build our world.

    Dyson is enthusiastic about the fact that knowledge is infinite - but this is self-evident. The world is changing, so history contains more information. You don't have to be a Wolff laureate for that.

    Nor is the use of the Gadel sentence irrelevant, in my opinion. The theorem says that under certain conditions, there are true sentences for which no proof can be constructed. I don't think there is anything to do with the development of mathematics.

    On the other hand, there are mathematical theorems that prove it is possible to create something "out of nothing" - and precisely which ones does he ignore? 🙂

    It is worth noting that Dyson objected to another of Weinberg's sentences: Weinberg wrote " make good people do bad things you need religion" - and Dyson replied "and for bad people to do good things you also need religion...".

  9. Freeman Dyson is a major contributor to quantum electrodynamics, to second quantization, and to the solution of integrals of higher order than one in the normalization of Richard Phillips Feynman's electromagnetic field operator. For his contribution to quantum fields he was more than worthy of the Nobel Prize in Physics together with Feynman. but never received. Instead he received the Wolff Award and other awards: a Fermi. Quantum electrodynamics is one of the greatest achievements of the last century. Phenomenal success to describe an interaction of N particles analytically accurate in the limit of the speed of light, so that the probability function originally conceived by Schrödinger has no pure meaning of probability. Feynman showed that through countless interactions that take place at zero time, the field is recalibrated (gauge) and as a result an effective mass and an effective charge that are different from the mass and the empty charge are measured. In this process of second quantization, a tool called renormalization was introduced for the first time, and which became a main mathematical tool for overcoming endless results on the subject of fluidity, conductivity, turbulence in liquids - where Green received a Nobel Prize, and phase transitions in matter, and physics of condensed matter. Dyson is a major contributor to the renormalization solution devised by Feynman. Feynman himself was not able to solve the higher order integrals he presented. Dyson succeeded and in doing so institutionalized Feynman's method and the diagrams that are today an integral part of the string theory that emerged later. It would be appropriate to give a few words about Freeman Deason. That's why I gave.

  10. I agree with you that there is a lot of brainwashing and a lot of myths.
    But still one cannot ignore the few proofs and facts and the religious books and the books of the histrions such as Josephus Flavius ​​which quite support the historical facts and archeological findings.
    And yet the result, which is a successful and democratic country (not ideal, but good enough for me) despite all the difficulties, and in such a crazy environment, is an achievement bordering on a miracle.
    In any case, from a pragmatic point of view and knowing our neighbors, I prefer the Jews and the myths of the Jewish religion of all its types to the alternative.

  11. my father

    'There is a religion that was created thousands of years ago, which causes its believers to return here and establish a state here again and again over the course of thousands of years'

    Considering the extent of the difference between the beliefs and the way of worship, it is not possible to claim the existence of such a religion. In practice, these are different religions that have dangled from a previous religion, but there is no doubt that these are other religions. Calling them the same name does not make them one just like if I call an orange and an apple by the same name they will not be the same fruit.

    I will focus the question for you on the matter of the exiles. Where were the people in these exodus? Was he exiled entirely? Did he stay in the country? Which part was exiled and which remained?

    My point about the geographic unevenness is that it was not particularly important to the returnees. If you look at the hills where the immigrants settled before the establishment of the state, you will find that a true return to their ancestral lands was not really important to them.

    The genetic studies do not really support the belief that some say one thing and some say another. A common ancestor thousands of years before there even existed a kingdom that worshiped the god of ancient Judaism is not an indication of anything while various studies also show closer genetic kinship among some populations to various populations throughout Europe, the Middle East and Africa.

    I don't mean Jewish religious brainwashing, I mean Jewish nationalist brainwashing that is full of lies that are injected into all the residents of the country.

    Where exactly am I ignoring facts that have been proven by archeological findings by written documentation and in books? Where does any of this disagree with my words?

    'You did not mention in the last response the theory regarding the "evolution of the Jewish mind"'

    Why should I? Because you mentioned a figure about Jewish Nobel winners? It is not clear to you why it is not possible to conclude from this data what you claimed about the evolution of the intellect among the Jews? Do I really need to explain this?
    Because you said that Israel is economically successful without any natural resources only thanks to the human resource?
    You can ask about how many things in this sentence that you see as fact if they are even true. But even if we agree that it is true. Many more tests and comparisons with other countries and peoples are needed to reach the conclusion of the evolution of the mind that you advocate.

  12. I answered a long answer but I was probably censored by the mechanism, I don't remember writing something so terrible.
    In any case, I happen to be the opposite of what you wrote, I'm actually a complete secularist who tries to look at the antithetical and positional brainwashing I received, with skepticism.
    I am not trying to justify Judaism, but I understand the logic behind this concept.

  13. I did not write here what my personal opinion is nor what my personal belief is and I do not understand where you get the "pictures in his own eyes".
    I only provide data on things that have documented proof.
    The tenets of the Jewish religion, those that make the believers aspire to return to Israel, have not changed since they were established in the days of the Second Temple at least, and most of them have not changed since the First Temple either.
    A religious person will tell you that nothing has changed, but I am not religious and do not accept it, as I have already written, customs such as circumcision, kosher laws, have not changed, the prayers were established in the Second Temple as I wrote and as is known, the ruins of the Temple, at least Herod's, are still exist in the same place and more.
    The fact that they did not return to exactly the same limits is due to constraints and not by choice, so it is not relevant.
    There is a fairly reliable record, both oral and written, and archaeological findings of who was exiled and who returned, first of all the Bible, books by foreign historians and also archaeological findings that support these books.
    There are even genetic tests such as the gene that characterizes the priests which proves that at least a large part of the Jews today are descendants of the same people and relatives.
    The cultural world of the Jews in the world and of those who have returned to Israel is indeed different and diverse and influenced by the cultural world in which they lived in the Diaspora, but they have a common religion or a common religious identity (for most of them, of course).
    There are some facts that cannot be ignored
    There is a religion that was created thousands of years ago, which causes its believers to return here and establish a state here again and again over the course of thousands of years - which is a unique phenomenon in the world (good or bad religion - it doesn't change that, that's a fact)
    The believers of this religion or this people have events that repeat themselves again and again - anti-Semitic persecutions and attempts to destroy this people that almost succeed but in the end fail (miracles!?) - from the Exodus from Egypt, the Book of Esther, the Emigration from Spain, until the Holocaust, the War of Independence, the Yom Kippur War And so on…
    You claimed that I received Jewish brainwashing - but this is really not my situation, I am a complete unbeliever secular, pious and a "follower" of Baruch Spinoza (personally I do not even believe in the immanent God that Spinoza defines).
    On the other hand, I try to see things objectively, non-religious, non-Zionist, but also not anti.
    On the other hand, in my opinion, you speak as someone who has received post/anti-Zionist or other brainwashing, and therefore ignores facts proven by archaeological findings, by written documentation and in books.
    I am not claiming that all of this is indeed a higher power, or some genius of whoever invented this religion, I am only claiming that there is a basis to believe that there is something in it and therefore I do not underestimate those who believe in a higher power.

    And you did not mention in the last response the theory regarding the "evolution of the Jewish mind" - and the contribution of the Jewish religious system to develop the "evolution of the mind", but the subject has already been covered.

  14. All in all, it's amusing* that a man whose claims are all assumptions of what is being sought is a great one who portrays himself as an example and a model of rational thinking and the perfection of logic.

    * or tragic

  15. my father

    'What other exiled people (there were many) returned to their country three times during 3000 years to re-establish the society and religion they had before?'

    What people did this in the case you are talking about? Do you know who was exiled in each of the exiles in question?
    What society and religion did he have before? Are you aware that each return created a different society and religion than those that existed at the time of departure?
    Which Country? Even the geographical space does not remain fixed here but is subject to changes with some small common irrigation area.

    A system of mitzvah laws and rules that is not the same as the second and third (and fourth and fifth) mitzvah system of laws and rules cannot constitute one mechanism.

    'The main mitzvot and laws have not changed - they were given by God - (or Moses) and are written in the Pentateuch, for example circumcision, kosher laws and Shabbat observance and so on.'

    Yes? Do you know what other populations that exist observe these laws and are not part of Judaism today in the view of the Jewish religious institutions?

    'The fact that this people returned to the same land for the third time after a long exile is a fact'

    is that so? Who really came back? Do we really know that the returnees are even descendants of those who left?
    Was the cultural world of those who returned the same as that of those who left? Is their return part of the mechanism you are talking about? If you look honestly at the immigrants and the pioneers, you will soon realize that the answer to this question is negative. Even if you look at Orthodox Judaism with integrity you will have to admit that the answer to the question is negative.

    It's strange how you are able to look skeptically at every issue here through issues of climate, environment, space, etc. but you swallow the Jewish brainwashing that was provided to you without question.

  16. walking death - what other exiled people (there were many) returned to their country three times during 3000 years to re-establish the society and religion they had before?
    The mechanism is the system of commandments and the laws and rules of the religion, including prayers for the return to the Land of Israel and to Jerusalem, including rituals such as circumcision. By the way, Baruch Spinoza attributes the preservation of Judaism to the circumcision ceremony, and he claims (back in the year 1600 or so - long before the beginning of the Zionist idea) - that this commandment is to preserve You will unite the people and maybe you will make them return to Israel in the end (so you can actually say that the first state contract is Baruch Spinoza's).
    3. The main commandments and laws have not changed - they were given by God - (or Moses) and are written in the Pentateuch, for example circumcision, kosher laws and Sabbath observance and so on.
    4. The fact that this people returned a third time to the same land after a long exile is a fact. The fact that Jews have a significant and much larger percentage of Nobel Prizes in scientific subjects than all members of other religions is also a fact.
    The fact that Israel is economically successful without any natural resources is only thanks to the human resource - this is a fact.

  17. my father

    These are stereotypes, there is no real, high-quality data that shows that such a thing exists.

    'It is a fact that this mechanism of commandments and laws keeps this nation as a unified and cohesive nation (relatively) and returns it again and again to its homeland, and it has been working for 3000 years.'

    1) If this mechanism did not exist for all these 3000 years, it did not protect any people for 3000 years
    2) If this nation is not uniform and cohesive during these 3000 years, then no mechanism has kept it that way
    3) If the commandments and laws are constantly changing then there is no mechanism for 3000 years

  18. Why is there no evidence for the evolution of the mind? It is known that the Jews excel in intelligence relative to other nations, see the number of Nobel Prizes for Jews compared to others in relation to their number.
    See the technological and cultural progress in our country - "the Jewish head invents patents for us".
    I attribute this to the evolution of the intellect among the Jews, which began with a religion that sees scholarship and intellect as the main thing.
    In times when the gentiles were mostly illiterate among the Jews, everyone learned to write and read, scholars and great Torah were promoted and were given matches with daughters of scholars and great Torah, and so on as I wrote earlier.
    These are facts and have nothing to do with propaganda of any kind.

    And there is no contradiction between the things - on the one hand, a mechanism of laws, commandments and customs kept the people united around a religion that directs them to return to their country - a religion that is a nation and most of its laws are related to the life of the people in their country and its goal is to be realized in the Land of Israel. - We received this part from Moses/God at Mount Sinai. And sages perfected it even more.
    In addition to preserving the religion outside the Temple and also before the destruction in an environment hostile to the religion (Roman rule)
    In addition, they also established a study and memorization method, a push for excellence and a systematic selection of the outstanding ones.
    And this does not contradict each other because both this and this gave the result of a wise people who remained united and returned to their country.

  19. my father

    Don't you see how this completely contradicts what you wrote here?:
    'It is a fact that this mechanism of commandments and laws keeps this nation as a unified and cohesive nation (relatively) and returns it again and again to its homeland, and it has been working for 3000 years.'

    By the way, there is no actual evidence that supports this hypothesis ('evolution of the mind') regarding the Jewish population. This is nothing more than nationalist propaganda.

  20. Nev - I hope it sounds like I'm belittling the Pharisees or the Great Knesset or the Sages - the fact is that their wisdom (whether you believe it is from God or not) is what preserved the people of Israel as a nation and brought us to this point.
    I think that it is the religious tradition, and Jewish wisdom, and the study of religion and the method in which in Judaism over the course of thousands of years they promoted and preferred the intellect over the muscles, that caused the Jews to undergo an evolution of intellect and led this nation to achievements in the field of wisdom and also in the field of science, Nobel Prizes...
    And this is Darwinian evolution - that is, in Judaism the sages are the ones who were always promoted, and they are the ones who take care of them and save them first from pogroms, and marry them in matchmaking of sages with sons and daughters of sages and so on...

  21. It is written in Wikipedia.
    Anyway, there are some things I remember from books I read recently that may not be on Wikipedia.
    During the end of the Second Temple period, when the Roman government imposed difficulties on Judaism (read the Jewish Wars in the Romans by Josephus Flavius, very interesting) many sects arose in Judaism - the sect that dominated worship on the Temple Mount was the Sadducees, they were Levites and rich priests and they tended to please the Roman government, they believed in holding worship at home The temple in the format of the first temple - not much is known about them because they did not leave any books, but it is known for example that they did not believe in the next world.
    At that time there were also other sects in Judaism, most of which disappeared, later another sect arose which started as a sect in Judaism and later became a religion - Christianity.
    One of the sects that existed then (of course before the Christians) were the Pharisees and they are the ones who founded the Jewish religion that exists today.
    At first the Pharisees or the Pharisee establishment were called and later the Sages, the Sages of the Greater Knesset... and then the sages of the pairs and the other sages mentioned in the Talmud - the members of the Greater Knesset founded all the religious worship (prayers and mitzvot) outside the Temple and thus allowed every Jew everywhere to turn to God without needing the temple priests and without making a pilgrimage to the Temple Mount.
    As it is said in the Mishna Avot, "Moses received the Torah from Sinai and gave it to Joshua and Joshua to the elders and elders to the prophets and prophets to the members of the Great Knesset..."
    And why did they ignore the priests? After all, it was expected that they would say that the Torah was received by the priests and they were the ones who knew the religion and managed the Temple... but the priests were the Sadducees... and therefore the Pharisees are the ones who "returned the crown to its old age" and received the Torah of the prophets, straight from the books of the prophets that were in their possession at the time in full (these books Only parts of them that were selected by the sages were preserved in their entirety, and therefore in the books of the prophets you find "the rest of the things are written in...").
    In practice, they distanced themselves from the Sadducees, and instituted prayers and mitzvahs and worship that takes place outside the Temple, and they also collected the books, edited them, and this is the Bible we have today...

  22. L D - in connection with what God willed
    The Torah was given on Mount Sinai (by God, by Moses, by the sages of Israel...) but it was given only to the people of Israel for the purpose written in the Torah mainly in connection with receiving the land "because you will come to the land..."
    The purpose is quite clear and it is also written there - after each mitzvah it is written "for the sake of the body". "
    The mitzvot and rules and laws were given to the people of Israel for the sole purpose of establishing a new society in the Land of Israel based on a system of laws and social order... that will protect it against all the dangers that such a nation has... and it is a fact that this mechanism of mitzvot and laws keeps this nation as a united and cohesive nation (relatively) and brings it back again and again to his homeland, and it has been working for 3000 years.
    Regarding the other peoples it is written - and you will be a light to the Gentiles - and it is a fact that this mechanism also works - thanks to what happened on Mount Sinai, the other peoples of the world also (more or less) accepted the belief in the same God and his basic set of values.
    And so I think that this ingenious mechanism of mitzvot and laws that protect a nation and constitute a value base for the entire world as well as for other religions, is a genius that is beyond a person's ability.
    believe it or not


    "I don't need to see the factory where the car was made to know that they all exist. The same is the case in biological planning - a butterfly, a tree, a person, a star, etc. Someone designed them, they didn't happen by chance... I'm a passionate fan of the theory of evolution.'

    It is quite surprising that a person who claims to be an ardent fan of the theory of evolution still thinks that our bodies are designed. Tell me, apart from being enthusiastic about the subject, have you tried to learn a bit about how evolution works, what is the evidence for it and what things is it capable of creating?


    When you design a unique machine, do you put all kinds of features in it that make it less efficient and are not used for anything it was designed to do?

  25. Pomegranate
    When you look at a certain object - what features of the object suggest to you that the object looks designed?

  26. Pomegranate
    When you look at a certain object - what features of the object suggest to you that the object looks designed?

  27. To the opponent,
    I loved the cynicism,
    I am an avid fan of the theory of evolution, what a beautiful design, but we too with our tiny awareness which is a part or image of the one awareness of all of us (and "all of us" includes the types of awareness not only human) create evolution.
    See the example of the car, from the first car to the present day.

  28. If you go back "before" the big bang, you find that it is incomprehensible, because there is no such thing before space and time were not yet created.
    That's where God is.
    Even if there are multiverses of the 1,2,3,4st, XNUMXnd, XNUMXrd, XNUMXth degree and the string theory or m is correct, still what is in a place where the physics is different, meaning a place or dimension completely different from what we can perceive according to the known rules (the four forces) of our universe, still something cannot be ruled out which is outside the time that created everything after all the universe attests to it.
    The set of laws, even the quantum including the relativistic, do not disprove this possibility at all levels there is a set of laws that are as if predetermined.
    As Einstein said "there is a higher power that comes into effect in the laws of the universe"
    A general God makes much more sense than a personal God.


    "So what do you say laugh or cry?"

    I also ask myself this question, and I think miracles too 🙂

    Say, have you ever bothered to read a bit about the theory of evolution?

  30. rival,
    I started the previous comment with "my opinion.." and you want to know what my opinion is based on. you are welcome. You are welcome to accept/reject it.
    In my education I am a mechanical engineer, I designed and implemented unique machines. Why am I telling this, because –
    When I see any machine, let's say a car, I appreciate the time, the imagination, the thought, the determination, the vision, the persistence, etc., etc. that the designer needed to fulfill his wish.
    And here is the car in front of me to see and experience it in its fullness.
    I don't need to see the blueprints and calculations
    I don't need to see the planners
    And I don't need to see the factory where the car was made, to know that they all exist.
    The same is the case in biological planning - a butterfly, a tree, a person, a star, etc. Someone designed them, they didn't happen by accident.
    A little about energy, every type of energy is here and now (independent of time and space), it is neither created nor disappears and it can be converted.
    And here's the hard part - our awareness is a kind of energy, a bit strange because it has intelligence, desire and emotion. To contradict this, a person has to use the energy of his awareness...
    And in a sharp transition to the Big Bang, suddenly out of nowhere the energies we know appear and begin to organize matter and the universe.
    And the physicist stands by him and looks for where the energy came from and he does not find a single "volunteer", and he exerts all his conscious energy and does not find..."there is no other source of energy here".
    So what do you say to laugh or cry?


    "But Bel Neta - the intelligent thought that creates everything that exists is here and now and we are an inseparable part of it even though we are not aware of it. Not only thought characterizes the one consciousness, it also has desire, emotion, self-awareness and infinite energy that can be converted"

    And it is based on…??

    How exactly did you come up with this?

  32. God,

    "The rooster is probably a reflection of intelligence or a highly developed culture that passed on instructions that allow the rapid growth of intelligent humanity and the establishment of a growing and successful culture."

    What is a clue to God? aliens? You are very entertaining but it does not help to give the opinions reflected in your words validity.

  33. d. You are very entertaining but it doesn't help to give validity to the opinions reflected in your words.

    The Bible is probably a reflection of a highly developed intelligence or culture that passed on instructions that enable the rapid growth of intelligent humanity and the establishment of a growing and successful culture.

    These instructions include abstract values ​​along with very concrete instructions because in that era the majority was not aware enough to accept the abstract instructions and learn how to apply them on their own.

    You, we, in the current era may be able to do this better, but note that even in our days, seemingly an era of well-read and educated people, the levels of stupidity and the distancing from the deep and abstract guidelines exist in a big way.

    The distancing from universal human principles, the renouncing of values ​​and morals with a purpose and proven evidence of its success, and the mindless takeover of institutions, the media and the consciousness of so many... we experience it every day
    (especially today in Tel Aviv) and perhaps after all those "ancient sages" knew the soul of their dead animal a little better than we do
    And they knew why they packed the principles for a productive life with so many and sometimes strange practices.

    The message is modesty and a desire to keep looking for answers.

  34. In my opinion…
    God is a name that humans have given to phenomena that are hidden from their eyes, since intuitively we feel that we are part of something greater - it is true that the power-hungry among us understood the tremendous potential that lies here for influence and exploitation.
    But Bell was right - the intelligent thought that creates everything that exists is here and now and we are an inseparable part of it even though we are not aware of it.
    Not only thought characterizes the one consciousness, it also has desire, emotion, self-awareness and infinite energy that can be converted.

  35. According to the Bible it is completely clear what God wants.
    First of all: let them love him "with all your heart and all your soul and all your heart". Then he has all kinds of other small requests, such as a detailed daily and yearly menu, including the form of serving and exact hours, a menu of completely meat sacrifices and kosher in the DZ. Oh, and he also really cares what you eat, and that you say thank you before and after. He also wants to decide who will wear what and when, who you will marry and who you will have sex with and when, and in short - to manage your life until he gets tired and kills you. So that he doesn't get bored when he throws away the old toys, you also need to multiply and provide him with the new model of toys. And don't say you didn't enjoy it!

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