The desire to create tools for measuring time is a common aspiration for all cultures. Below are some of the common methods for measuring time alongside more exotic methods * First article in the series
Summary of the history of time part II - the Gregorian calendar used today
Time has fascinated humans since time immemorial. That hidden dimension that cannot be seen or felt has become necessary in order to maintain the existence of human society. We know only a tiny fraction of the various methods of measuring time, simply because the vast majority of human civilizations have disappeared without leaving any vestiges or written evidence. But even in the few cultures we know around the world, one can find great diversity and original and special ideas for measuring time, which developed simultaneously in those cultures.
Many tend to see the cycle of time as perfect, and even attribute to it the absolute order ruled by one God or another. But the universe operates in a random way even when it comes to phenomena with regular cycles, such as the movement of the stars. Our way of measuring time goes through three main cycles - the rotation of the earth on its axis which creates day and night, the moon's revolutions around the earth which create the months (there are of course also other methods for counting months) and full revolutions of the earth around the sun which give the years. Each of these cycles has a different calculation and none of them is mathematically adjusted to another factor, and this is not surprising. Nature should not be expected to take into account man's mathematical abilities. This lack of uniformity leads on the one hand to a host of very complex problems related to the calculation of time, and on the other hand to interesting and original ways developed by different cultures, with the aim of bringing some order to the chaos around us.
The counting methods
As far as we know the measurement of time is one of the things common to almost all human cultures since time immemorial. The measurement of time is usually done through some kind of counting - days, months, years and discovering cycles that make this counting possible. Therefore, to start discussing ways to calculate time, we must first discuss the way we count. It is easy to understand the simplicity of counting by base ten - we have ten fingers on our hands and it is very easy to use them to count objects in the world around us. Every child knows how to do this, and I have come across more than once even adults who still perform simple calculations using their fingers. But chance also controls the number of one's fingers. We do have five fingers on each limb, but during the evolutionary process different animals were created with a different number of 'fingers'. For example, the first vertebrates had six, seven or eight 'fingers' in each of their limbs, and it is easy to imagine our mathematics based on twelve or sixteen if our evolutionary development had been slightly different. The nature around us would not have changed as a result of course, but through Our calculation and counting would have looked different.
Although all humans have ten fingers on their hands, not all cultures have adopted the same mathematical methods for counting in base ten. For example, the Mayan culture in Central America used the base 20 (or vigsimal base) method, probably because they counted both fingers and toes or maybe because they developed a method of counting each finger twice. The Babylonians, who apparently inherited the calculation method from the Assyrians and the Akkadians, used a base of 60 AD (hexagonal base). Remainders for calculation according to base 60 are still common today in calculating the hours, minutes, seconds and degrees (and minutes of the degrees) in a circle. Other cultures such as in Nepal, India and other cultures used base 12 (base duodecimal). It sounds like a rather strange number to adopt, but many peoples used the knuckle counting method using the toe to count 12 objects (try it yourself and see how simple it is).
When talking about base 60, 12 or 20, the reference is, among other things, to the number of digits and the calculation of units according to this base. For example, a base 20 calculation uses different digits to indicate the numbers 0-19, and to count "tens" multiples of 20 are used instead of multiples of 10, and the same goes for hundreds and thousands which become "twos and thousands". When calculating according to base 12 or 60 the calculation will of course be completely different. Without going into boring mathematical principles, suffice it to say that the great advantage of base 12 and base 60 is expressed in the relatively convenient division of relatively large numbers. 12 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, and 6 compared to the number 10 which is only divisible by 2 and 5. This fact makes the number 12 (and even more so the number 60 for similar reasons) easier to calculate fractions such as thirds, fourths and sixths. In other words, if a farmer has a unit of 12 apples, it will be easy for him to calculate how much is a half, a third, a quarter and a sixth and the result will be obtained in whole apples, as opposed to calculating according to base 10 which will force the farmer to cut the apples inconveniently to create an equal distribution, unless he Interested in half or a fifth of the amount.
To this day we use base 12 calculation to calculate the hours of the day, a method that has its roots in the ancient Egyptian culture, which developed the first sundials. Another reinforcement of the importance of the number 12 comes from an astronomical source - the moon circles the earth about 12 times a year. We see further evidence of base 12 in the words "eleven" and "twelve" in Indo-European languages. The names of these numbers are fundamentally different from the names of the numbers in the decimal system. This is how, for example, they say Eleven and Twelve and not Oneteen and Twoteen, with the suffix teen as is customary with the other numbers. In addition, there are special words invented for the number 12 - Dozen and in Hebrew - Dozen, which symbolize its importance.
You should also pay attention to zero. Today we use the Gregorian calendar to count years according to the decimal system, but we encounter a fundamental problem in measuring time, since the first year of the number was 'year one' and not 'year zero', simply because the term zero was not known at all at that time. The concept of 'zero' developed in the sixth century in India, from where it passed after about two centuries to the Arabs and reached Europe only in the 11th century. If we want to be really precise in counting dates from the beginning of AD or BC, we have to remember to add another year.
Since the way in which we calculate time developed differently in different cultures, we find a complete confusion in the way we calculate time in the present - we count 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in an hour, but 12 hours in a day and 12 hours in a night and also 12 months. But while the hours are a matter of arbitrary division set by man, the 12 months were influenced, among other things, by the cycle of the moon. Each month has approximately thirty days and each solar year - approximately 365 days (as I will explain later), but this is also an astronomical figure and not determined by humans. And compared to all of these, we count the number of years according to the decimal system - the year as of today is 2008, and we attach special importance to every hundred years and every thousand years (see the Millennium celebrations).
'solar year' and 'lunar year'
So, different cultures have left their mark on the way we measure time, and this creates a lot of confusion, but still there are some things that are universal. In areas where the seasons are distinctly different, it is relatively easy to count how many days pass between one winter and another. (In the tropics it is very difficult to distinguish between the seasons, as the weather is constantly hot and humid). The time of the Earth's revolution around the Sun is, therefore, called a 'solar year'.
The 'lunar year' can also be measured. Many cultures adopted the tracking of the lunar months to determine the passage of time. It is easy to see the state of the moon and its change from day to day, and together with other signs that are evident in nature, such as: the seasons, monsoon rains, migration of animals, flowering of plants, etc., it is relatively easy to see the connection between the cycle of the moon and the measurement of time on times the rotation of the earth around the sun. A 'lunar year' is practiced in Imperial China, in the Jewish and Muslim calendar and in many other societies, some of which I will expand on later. However, although this arrangement sounds convenient and simple, it is not accurate. It takes the moon 29 and a half days to orbit the earth, or more precisely 29.53059 days. Hence a 'lunar year' lasts approximately 354 days. In contrast, a 'solar year' lasts 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes and 45.96768 seconds (or in other words, 365.242199 days). These incomplete numbers make measurement and calculation very difficult, and when trying to match the lunar year to the solar year, a problematic deviation of about 11 days is created.
The lack of synchronization between the solar year and the lunar year, and the inaccuracy of the moon's orbit around the earth and the earth's orbit around the sun caused a terrible 'headache' for the tribal elders and priests in almost every culture in the world. Those who tried to use the moon to count months found themselves with a year too short by about a week and a half. And those who tried to count the days of a 'solar year' had to make do with an inaccurate calendar. A way had to be invented to count months while ignoring the moon, which supposedly gives such clear signs for measuring time.
Different cultures have adopted different approaches to solve the problem. As mentioned, one way is to be based on a 'solar year' and create a calendar based on 365 days a year. 365 is the closest whole number to a 'solar year', but still leaves about a quarter of a day each year to be solved for.
Prof. Stephen G. Gold writes in his book "Millennium Upheavals" about two interesting methods that were created in this way: "Many companies, each on their own, came up with the idea of dividing 360 days into equal units (18 "months" of 20 days each in Mayans, seekers of the number twenty; 12 months are called by new names, 30 days each, with the French revolutionaries in the calendar that was founded in 1792 on the basis of a complete purification of the territory and a fresh start) - and following that, the announcement of five special days for the cycle of the year (which were seen Lucky roads especially for the Mayans, but as a big reason for a long party for the French). Pretty nice, and we still have to deal with that annoying extra quarter of a day every year. That's why the French added another special day, six in total, once every four years."
To solve the missing quarter of the day, different cultures developed all kinds of methods, one of the most common of which is the leap year - adding a day, a few days or a whole month every few years. The idea was developed in Imperial China, and also in Babylon, and following them the Jews added a whole month every few years (Adar XNUMX). But it's not as simple as it sounds either. In the Jewish calendar, one must skip seven years out of every nineteen in order to maintain maximum accuracy, and therefore the Jews skip every third, sixth, eighth, eleventh, fourteenth, seventeenth and nineteenth year in each cycle of nineteen years.
As is the custom of the Jews, it even has an abbreviation in gematria - Guhadzt. Muslims, on the other hand, do not use the method of leap years, so the number of days in a year remains constant and corresponds to a "lunar year", and their year is significantly shorter than a 'solar year'. This is why the Muslim holidays move steadily backwards over the years - the 'lunar year' they use is simply shorter than the 'solar year', by which time is measured in the Western world.
51 תגובות
The Arab in Israel whose sleep was not transfixed had to look for signs in the nature around him in order to know when to go out to plow signs that still apply to Jews of Polish origin
For example, the sedge leaf, the summer left in the goose season, add clothes to you or the month of the loving Father Elul, whose tail is wet, the treacherous maple
Excellent
The passage of years in Judaism predates the Babylonians, except that before the Babylonians the passage was not done according to the calculation, but according to the natural year cycle. The month was consecrated according to the vision, and the years were passed by the Sanhedrin according to various cyclical natural phenomena, such as "Spring" (the cooking of the grain), the goats that had not yet grown enough for the Passover sacrifice, the Israelites in the Babylonian exile who wanted to make a pilgrimage and might get stuck on the way because of the rains, and so on . These things are recorded in the Talmud and were practiced by the people of Israel for thousands of years, until the correction of the transliteration account and the calendar by Hillel II long after the signing of the Talmud.
Hello and good evening.
Several notes to order:
1. First, for the case of the trampling: who appointed Judge Drori to judge in a Hebrew trial? I claim that he did not properly understand Rambam's words. I already wrote in my previous comment that not everyone is able to understand the intention of our sages.
But for the judge's first argument in the ruling: "Since a criminal record may harm the chance of being appointed to the Rabbinical Court in the future" - this is indeed disgusting. (No, please do not think that I was happy that the punishment of the barbarian was lightened). The power of the evil inclination is very great in this generation and many people commit transgressions. (I did not come to say that I am righteous. That is not what the discussion is about). I express here my public distaste for people who use religion as a fig leaf for their own desires. By the way, I too got hurt by the malicious use of religion.
However, we forgot an important thing here: not everything that is published in the media is accurate and almost all things are twisted by the journalists either accidentally or on purpose. It is worth checking carefully what the details of the case were and what the judges' considerations were.
Also, I recommend that you carefully read rule XNUMX of Halachah XNUMX in the Sefer Hefetz Chaim Halachots for slander in proofreading and you will see that even if the entire article is correct there is a halachic problem with it. (Don't think I'm a bunny and afraid to quote the proof).
2. I agree with you: he was appointed rabbi for a reason. Our great rabbis recognized Yaron Yadan's level of understanding, they recognized his potential.
But they were wrong. And this is not the first time they were wrong. They were also wrong about Saturn Zvi. Some of the rabbis thought he was the Messiah and look what happened to him.
3. I don't just bother to add that no one is immune from mistakes. Our sages say that throughout a person's life he has to worry about his spiritual state and only at his death is he freed from this worry - a person must not trust himself. That's why I bothered and brought up the high priest case. That's why I bother every day to study Torah - because I'm afraid. very afraid The evil instinct in this generation is very strong.
"I created the desire of evil - I created a spiced Torah for it."
4. The use of information is dangerous. It is easy to understand that the use of information from the Torah is dangerous. I didn't say not to study Torah, I just said you need to know how to study and from whom to study because not everyone can explain the Torah. Those who study Torah can be filled with adoration as Rambam wrote and can also come to apostasy. The human mind is not strong enough to come to correct spiritual conclusions, therefore, in addition to the necessary caution, we should also pray to God to open our eyes.
4. And why do you think I brought Nazism as an example of religion? Nazism is an example of a twisted system of laws created in Germany by people who thought they were enlightened. Nazism is not a religion - the ideology of the Nazis was anti-Christian - the Nazis persecuted priests and nuns and damaged churches. But Michael, you forget the fact that I say all the time that the possibility of being an enlightened person depends only on loyalty to the Jewish tradition and also requires Sieta Deshmiya. Is your memory that short? I wrote in the previous comment "There is a very specific way that can only be used to advance in Judaism: faithfulness to the words of the Sages".
5. What will you say about the evil instinct and its methods of operation? Or do you deny its reality? How do you think an enlightened person can overcome the evil instinct?
6. Unlike you, I do not believe in the existence of zombies. But I do believe that humans are capable of developing abilities like those of monstrous and demonic creatures. See entry Hitler, Ahmadinejad et al. That's why I try to prevent such cases from happening - that's why I won't leave the humans alone until I'm sure they won't adopt the habits of zombies and other cruel creatures.
7. With achievements like yours I would indeed prefer to leave the sky to you, while I will content myself with swallowing frogs, rabbits that raise gra, and also slurs. Only one thing bothers me: how did you overtake me in achievements if I'm the liar?
8. In your words, you mentioned the degree of truth in my context: I will admit and confess that I am indeed very far from perfect, also when it comes to my degree of truth. I am working on it and I will be able to fix it,
in Gaza
9. I tried to keep things short because they are many. But if I still found myself bothering you too much - I'm sorry.
Noam,
I will give you a tiny tangible example, to support it, if the information I will bring you right now will satisfy you:
For a long time (among the other important things, no less) I have been wondering about the meaning of Shabtai Zvi (the subject of that name) in the Jewish historiographical treatise and in the context of the other nations of the world.
And here the hand of fate ran and on the Thursday before the last evening of the 'Book Week', I went to the place-Malki Yisrael Square and bought 8 books.
After a spatial scan from afar, I approached the publishing house 'Yad Vashem', I purchased 2 books (the contexts for this are issues in themselves and interesting discoveries) but next to the publishing house 'Saar' in silent silence, I had the wonderful surprise of discovering Greed of Land published by: Zalman Shazar Center for Israeli History '..and what does a local find? First, a man of bright manners, nice and humble, whose literary gossip was found by me with capillary excitement and 'bewildered' eyes. 4 books:: 1. "Sabbaths - Social Aspects / Yaakov Barnai. (After all, this matter was requested, wasn't it? ) and more, for issues that often come up in scholarly discussions: book 2. The history of anti-Semitism "The Catholic Church and the Jews in Argentina 1933-1945 / Graciela Ben-Dror. 3. "Ottoman Judaism between Westernization and Zionism 1908-1920" / Esther Benavsa. 4." Judaism and Greekness-confrontation or fusion?"/Israel L. Levin..
So, here is Noam, my local has been doing homework all my life.
So do your job and know yourself:
All the best to you.
Hugin:
Great explosion
Just from the sentence you quoted for me, Michael, you will be able to understand that I have nothing against you, and my words come in order to enlighten you or awaken you to the full light, for which you were born after all.
There is a very subtle difference between Shebat Fe, Meshet Shebat, Shebat-Yad, and Parshat of the Laws...
I came to visit you here, in order not to 'spare from you' the truths in real time.
But just as my mind is able to understand in the 'surroundings of all the tractates' the role of Shabtai Zvi (after the kalal), I too can now understand the 'special catch', which must be entered into towards the end of the tractate, in the latter..
Well, I wrote... if you want, if you can, if you prepare... in the end at least yourself, you will understand.
Michael,
You must have noticed that Hagin never explains or reasons her words.
The reason for this is clear: she herself does not understand her nonsense, so there is no inability to explain or reason.
Hugin, maybe you should really only write things you understand and can explain?
This will save a lot of time and space in the forum (in fact, I doubt if you can even write a single comment).
By the way, Hugin:
From where do you know the phrase "saves his tribe and hates his son"?
Hugin:
You are just talking nonsense and being arrogant.
pleasantness:
You do the same thing in many words and on top of that you are not telling the truth.
It was not for nothing that Yaron Yadan was appointed head of the yeshiva, and it was not for nothing that he was a rabbi and an arbiter of Halacha.
This was because those great rabbis you are talking about knew his level of understanding.
So if you are asking according to which scale - then the answer is clear - according to the scale which you yourself consider the most and I actually consider less.
You also try to forget that you said that everyone who knows the religion will be filled with admiration. My reference to Yaron Yadan stemmed from this stupid claim. So after you finish inventing a slur about Yaron Yedan, you also bother to add that even someone who was a high priest is not immune to disillusionment. So maybe you will decide? Will we be filled with admiration or can we also be disillusioned?
You suddenly remind me of the religion of Nazism as "proof" that Judaism is actually fine.
What do you say?
It's really pitiful.
It is true that Nazism is also a religion and it is even true that it is a worse religion than Judaism, but you forget the possibility that I offer all the time - the possibility of being an enlightened person!
By the way - what do you say about the events described in responses 30 and 31 above?
Do they also fill you with admiration for religion?
Note that the shameful ruling relies on Rambam!
It's really great how you know how to comment on books you haven't read in a while.
If I was such a liar I could achieve much more in life.
Not that I achieved little. Although, unlike you, I try to act honestly all the time, I'm sure that I also achieved more than you will ever achieve, but if I allowed myself the dishonesty that you allow yourself, only the sky would be the limit.
Continue to believe that the rabbit lives, continue to take an example of morality from the man who drove his wife and son out to dry in the desert and then was ready to slaughter his last remaining son (just like the one from Beit Shemesh) and leave the human beings who did not turn into zombies to rest.
I feel sorry for you brother, Michael. I'm sorry. And so why? Due to several reasons:
1. I actually assumed in advance that you consider yourself to be a great sage in Judaism and that is precisely why I gave you a score: the wisdom of Judaism is seen precisely in those who are obedient and not in those who consider themselves wise (and unlike the wisdom of science, knowledge of which is not related to personality and qualities). However, the truth was given to say - I I have not checked your education in Judaism yet and I would be happy if you would prove yourself.
2. You will be surprised, but I actually heard about Yaron Yedan, but I must remind you that greater than him have already fallen: Korach (we read about him last Shabbat) fell because of his pride and his desire to be equal to Moses our Lord. Shabtai Zvi, where the wicked will rot, also thought he was the Messiah and caused disaster for the people of Israel . And even Yohanan, who was a high priest (!) became a Sadducee at the age of 80.
"An expert in the Holy Scriptures according to any standard" - whose standard? Certainly not according to the scale of the greats of this generation. And even so - I have already brought evidence from history that it does not guarantee anything.
"When he understood from studying the religion and getting to know you in depth" - I am ready to swear by taking an object that I believe with all my heart that indeed Yaron Yadan reached the deepest levels of Judaism. But Yaron Yedan forgot that not only does a mental-tactical understanding of Judaism require humility and not only does our Torah contain things that an ordinary person does not understand, but even after a person has already understood Judaism, rules are still required of him and he must not deviate from them. We know that Viron was leaning towards them - a fact that makes me suspect that he didn't even understand the simplicity of Judaism.
By the way, if you already mentioned a set of laws - let's go back just 70 years: look what happened to a country that claimed to be enlightened. Look what monstrous laws she enacted. We saw where the Enlightenment of Germany led us. Indeed, the wise men were right when they stated: that if it were not for the fear of the kingdom, a man would kill his friend. This is what intellectual Torah is worth. But G-d has been kind to us, helping humans to overcome their evil inclination and setting us laws on how we can overcome the evil inclination.
Furthermore, Rambam stated that it is forbidden for a mental investigation to lead to apostasy or non-observance of mitzvot. And who to us is greater than the tireless Rambam of education? Did Yaron Yadan remember Maimonides' words or does he think he is smarter than him? And if he thinks he is smarter than Maimonides then let him say so and let there be FAIR PLAY here
"A big act of fraud" - who defrauded whom? Answer: The evil instinct deceives us all. And all of us, that includes everyone: Yaron Yedan, me, you and our intellect. I would prefer to use the biggest Ponzi scam in history - I mean Bernard Madoff - as proof of a big scam.
Therefore, from all of the above, I conclude that learning from Miron about religion is not a very smart thing to do. But if you, Michael, want to help him - I won't be moved by it and I'm just telling you that it's better to hang on strong trees even if they're asleep than to hang on a tree that moves in the face of every common wind (and even less common wind).
And what is the nonsense you cite: "Religion arose on its creators". Who stood up to whom? Who even created religion? God! And God has not changed at all. He is the ruler and nothing moves him. He just lets us play a little on the fence "Please let the boys play in front of us" - and whoever makes a mistake in the game: loses. Also, I'm afraid you are caught by the word "religion". But don't worry, you are in the company of many good people. "A billion Chinese are not wrong". Christianity tried to fit all our good deeds into "religion". And not her. In any case, Judaism is not a religion. Therefore our whole argument is fundamentally wrong. We have no interest in religion. And maybe you meant that the creators of the religion are the wise - yes, but they also have rules that bind them. Those who claim to be "creators" must be very careful. And if they don't understand Judaism, then it's no wonder that the golem rose against its creator. Of course - you are distorting the cocoon, so of course he will take revenge on you! There is a very specific way that can only be used to advance in Judaism: faithfulness to the words of the sages. As old as they are, they are still relevant. Yaron Yadan forgot about it or wanted to forget about it and you can see where he got to. Not from him I live, God bless! I try to draw my air from the tubes from which the people of Israel drew their knowledge throughout history. Note: Every time our people deviated from the straight path, they lost themselves.
Would you say life is hard? Niha How does the proverb say? "Harsh is only in bread and you eat it too."
In any case, may we all continue to have an excellent and fruitful night!
Michael: Very nice, if you achieved as you said, implement.
The resentment emitted by your writing and your offensive response does not prove this, not to mention your unnecessary suspicion at best.
Forgive me, my precious time in life, which is channeled with sharp wisdom and penetrates the seeing and understanding heart, is dedicated to the worthy.
Hugin:
That's really smart!
If you don't understand yourself, there's no point in me explaining it to you.
I mean - you only explain to those who don't need an explanation.
Why are you explaining to someone who doesn't need an explanation? Just to upset him?
All of this is really not important because all the words of wisdom that you think I didn't get (those among them that are indeed words of wisdom) I actually did and only you didn't understand that I got them.
Michael: With all due respect, there are words of truth and wisdom that you must achieve by yourself and with humility.
There is no point in me explaining to you, if you didn't understand.
Hugin:
I don't know what you are basing your conclusions on.
In my opinion, you confess them from the depths of your heart.
I am aware of things that deserve to be called sages even though they originate from religion, but I am sure that they are different from those that you would call sages.
Be that as it may, this is not about the wisdom of religion, but the wisdom of some people who, on certain issues, religion did not hinder them from thinking.
But instead of me guessing why you wrote the obviously untrue thing you wrote, maybe tell me why you wrote it?
Michael: You do not distinguish between the 'religion' and the 'wisdom of religion'.
The fierce opposition at this stage makes you move away from the truth and others, to get closer to the truth.
Perhaps for you in particular, it is recommended to quietly read the writings of the Ramban (as opposed to the Rambam).
By the way, Noam:
Yaron Yedan also wrote a book called "Religion Rises on Its Creators"
Recommended for anyone who is willing to look the truth in the eye.
And if someone wants a little more in-depth analysis of the above link, then here it is:
http://nimrodavissar.com/blogica/archives/673
pleasantness:
Just for fun, come and see how religion affects us today:
http://www.calcalist.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3310703,00.html
pleasantness:
Just like you didn't read the article properly, you also didn't read the link I brought you with the necessary reference.
It is written there "Sages demanded from the verse "Keep the month of spring and make Passover to God" that it should be kept that the month of Nissan should always be in the spring, and therefore they determined that the year should be passed every few years."
What it means?
that before Chazal they did not act like that. Right?
In relation to religion - it is not true that those who know it enough develop admiration for it.
You give me marks without checking, but I actually know her very well.
By the way - why rely on me?
Have you heard of Yaron Yadan?
He was a rabbi and head of a yeshiva who specialized in halachic ruling. An expert in the Holy Scriptures by any standard.
When he realized (from studying the religion and getting to know you in depth) what a system of lies and immoral laws he was dealing with, he founded the Da'at Emet organization.
You should go to the organization's website. There you can also learn a lot about religion, but also - and this is more important - see that it is nothing but one big act of fraud.
http://www.daatemet.org
Michael - I don't know what you meant about the transition of the year. I can say that it is possible that we took the idea of how to pass a year from the Babylonians, but this commandment was imposed on us long before that.
And I will bring evidence to the words from the reference you brought: "Keep the month of spring and make Passover to God" - this commandment was already said in the Sinai desert as I wrote. And what's more: in the Wikipedia entry you brought it says: "Until the 4th century AD, they relied mainly on weather conditions to decide on the transition of the year" - tell me, Michael, when did weather begin to exist in the time of the Babylonians or from the creation of the earth?
Although I must admit that I was wrong about the intention of Amnon Carmel, the author of the article. He wrote: "And following them, the Jews added a whole month once every few years" - and I myself thought that Eliba Damnon was not a fetus a year before the Babylonians. Now on second glance I see that he didn't mean it at all!
Did you want to teach me a lesson? So you should have written like this: "Noam: It is only natural that the person who goes out to write a comment on an article did not understand it sufficiently".
And now regarding religion (by the way, who said I came to defend it): I will confess and not be ashamed: I have not studied the Torah enough and I do not know it well enough. But Michael, at least in this you will agree with me: that in-depth acquaintance arouses in every way admiration! As the Rambam wrote in Sefer al-Ma'da, Halachot Yesodi HaTorah, Chapter XNUMX, Halachah XNUMX: "And this is the way to his love and fear. When a person looks at his great deeds and wonderful deeds and sees from them his wisdom that has no value and no end, he immediately loves and praises and glorifies and desires a great desire for the knowledge of the great God ".
If anything, then you can say in your defense that a lack of in-depth knowledge raises objections in every conceivable way. (which is true in your case).
And me? I, the little one, have only lived up to the words of King Solomon, peace be upon him: "With a barbarian you will be reconciled and with a stubborn person you will be humble".
And I also learned a lesson from you: that before defending the religion I need to know it well. Blessed are you that you were able to bring benefit with your words to the people of Israel. (Although I must point out that the way you chose is a little strange to me).
Michael:
Your fevered mind against the wisdom of religion works like turbo-steam, overtime :)
From moment to moment people repeat a pure question and answer about you..Isn't this the irony of fate?
Thank you, thank you, thank you in the name of all the saints of Israel and the world.
And what about you? Not haram?
pleasantness:
It is only natural that those who come to the defense of religion do not know it (since in-depth knowledge raises objections in every reasonable person).
http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/שנה_מעוברת
We took the idea of Shanna from Babylon? No way! This commandment was imposed on us already in the Sinai desert!
The Greek Milton noticed that in a cycle of 19 solar years there are exactly 235 lunar months (according to a calculation that a year is 365 days 5 hours 54 minutes and about 25 seconds which is not completely accurate). The Hebrew calendar according to tradition is earlier than Milton.
In the Hebrew calendar, it was necessary to adjust the months of the moon to the summer year so that Passover always came in the spring (as the written article "Keep the spring month") because the Sunday of Passover always falls after the vernal equinox. Although they stopped determining the Hebrew calendar according to evidence before about 1600 A year and the entire calendar works on a calculation made at the time by "Hillel the Elder" the calendar is still almost accurate. Only in another 200 years will the first time Passover come out before March 21st!
The Hebrew calendar is presented here as another way among many to "align" the year with a solar year,
While the Hebrew tablet is the most special of the tablets,
I don't remember who it was, but around the 5th century, he realized that 19 lunar years are smaller than 19 solar years by exactly 7 lunar months, and then they decided to spread the 7 months in a 19-year cycle.
Except for the Hebrew calendar, there is no calendar whose date will tell you both what season you are in and the shape of the moon.
Saturday Shalom 🙂
Michael
Be what you say.
I say that the guy is full and all the comments he has disguised himself as so far except you I guess were his own anonymous.
Michael, you are an honest guy who also judges according to the apparent simplicity, but I read not only what is written but also the style, the smell and the spirit of the things exudes a familiar smell.
This is also not absent from other articles he wrote.
So my nose is probably too sensitive for him to smell it. And maybe it's a mistake on my part and that's how I'll finish my comments on the subject.
Higgs:
In my opinion, you attribute things to the article that are not in it and say intentions that he did not have when he wrote the article.
He is not trying to "sell" us anything. Just to summarize the history of timekeeping modes.
Higgis - I think you forgot to take pills recently. You are showing signs of progressive mental illness. None of the surfers understand what you are talking about in your paranoid delusional world and everyone here tries to explain to you politely (more or less) that you are talking nonsense. Your explanations are so far removed from reality that it seems to me that even you realize that your claims have no basis in reality and it is simply not pleasant for you to admit it. So maybe at least apologize?
Do you accuse Amnon Carmel of trying to preach repentance? Did you see the article he wrote against the converts? Here is the link:
https://www.hayadan.org.il/zamir-cohens-changeover-blofs-140908/
The easiest thing is to curse and rant anonymously on the website, when you're bored in MMD. About people like you it says: "Quotation for wisdom - silence".
Michael
Try listening once for five minutes until you run out of patience with all kinds of preachers and you will see that the material can be completely different but the style of all of them is the same. They take all kinds of facts and phenomena from the thresher and the winery and make a salad according to their taste. Here, too, the melody reminds me of such sounds.
Michael
I have no problem with the facts, only with what is being tried to demand from them.
It is a collection of "as if" rational interpretations "as if" a review. Using ideas in a way that is appropriate for what is being tried to sell here as in part XNUMX with "hmm" a parable it was a sermon for converts or preachers of a similar type.
Excellent article.
Higgs - I think you are going through a bad time. Hope you get over it soon.
Higgs:
I'm sorry, but I still don't understand what's bothering you, and even if I do, I'm not sure if it will provide a basis for such a disparaging attitude towards the author of the article.
This is all about a historical review of the ways of telling time in different cultures.
I don't know what you are trying to find in things but that is what they are - nothing more than that.
All science deals with the pursuit of objective information, and even if there exists in the background the possibility that what seems objective to us is not so - this possibility has no consequences for our thinking because by definition what we can think and feel is exactly what we can think and feel and there is no meaning to any objectivity outside of this field.
I don't know what you mean by "external" and "internal". You may or may not be talking about what I was trying to address but I have to say I just don't understand your words and your anger.
Sarit
You asked where the problem is? Well…
In the swelling pomposity of Mr. Carmel who pretends to look at the methods of thinking that were created as the way an experimenter looks at a laboratory mouse.
From the height of his gaze I was absent from all the wisdom and knowledge that the ancients lacked trying to look at the universe with attitude
seemingly external. Nor is all human thinking without exception subjective
There is nothing that we do not see in the form of our senses and thinking and therefore there is no meaning to the analysis
in the attitude he tried to present. As we do not know how to interpret the world, it will be in the most sophisticated way according to contemporary physics, but only with our thinking tools as we see the universe.
The focus of my comment concerns only the point of view and the approach presented in the article.
Agree with Mr. Higgs in part
Indeed our mind for all its wonders and efficiency is a developing thing as well as every answer to the article is based on previous knowledge of the person responding and his ability to absorb, process and retain information and therefore not only do we have different mental abilities our minds are still quite limited as an example:
Can you grasp the tangible size of the universe we know within your imagination
If so, well done, you are exceptional
if not
You are human like the rest of us
The writer simply stated a number of facts
The article is just an informative article, there is no shred of debate in it, a pointless philosophical debate has developed here, let's make it clear, you are all right!
Good Day
Higgs - I don't understand your logic.
After all, the subject of the article is the way man interprets time. The article does not try to claim that nature is adapted to man, on the contrary - it explains how man, from his point of view, tried to adapt time to his needs, and precisely because nature was not built for man, the difficulty in measuring time arose. This is an article that is more sociological than astronomical, and I think the second part clarifies the matter. So I repeat and ask - where exactly is the problem?
Sarit
I guess you didn't read the details and the zip code will come back briefly
The question is whether the analysis of nature and the human mind can be done from an external point of view
It is similar to Archimedes' request to place a fulcrum for him to lift the earth or to the story of Baron Münchhausen who pulled himself out of the egg by pulling strongly on the hairs of his head.
Thanks for the interesting article and I look forward to the second part.
And guess what exactly is your problem? Why do you express yourself like some talkbackist on YNET?
I think you just didn't understand what was written. After all, I'm sure you'll agree that nature is indeed random, that is, the movements of the stars don't really match. It is a fact that the cycles of the sun, the earth, the moon and the sun do not really coincide in their movement, as written in the article, and also as explained beautifully by Michael R. So where exactly is the problem here?
I hope you will also agree with me that the universe was not "created" especially for humans, and you will also agree that the human mind was also not "created" in order to understand nature and mathematics accurately. After all, this is exactly the same subjective situation you see, as you mentioned in the last comment. From what I understood from the article, Carmel does not claim that mathematics does not correspond to nature, but rather that nature's mathematics is not always easy or simple for humans to calculate.
I think that all your burning hatred for Amnon that is expressed in your comments here stems from another source (maybe he played with you with toys when you were in kindergarten or something?) or simply from a basic deficiency in reading comprehension. It's a shame that you tarnish such quality articles with curses and slanderous comments and more for no logical reason.
Well done . It was fun to read the article and the great information in it 🙂
Michael
I responded but did not emphasize the main point very well.
The gist of the matter focuses on a different point of view. You prefer to see the person and his actions and nature and his conduct from an external and apparently independent point of view. In this way, man as a part of nature is an objective entity that operates according to the laws of nature according to chance and randomness.
I, on the other hand, prefer to look at this picture from the completely subjective side and this is for a completely simple and practical reason. The whole picture and act of nature with its multitude of explanations never leave the circle of man's own thought so that there is no objective picture of its kind and its nature.
Higgs:
I responded to the reasons you gave in the previous response.
You did not return to them in your last comment.
Regarding what was said in your last comment - reading the article did not evoke in me the reaction it evoked in you.
I do not see these things as disrespecting the actions and achievements of previous generations. All in all - in my opinion - without any judgment - part of the history of time marking systems is sketched here
Michael
In his article, Amnon Carmel drifts into artificial explanations that are completely disconnected from human existence. His entire analysis is a mechanical act as if the past generations without the computer and the Internet invented their own imaginary world like drugged jocks without a compass.
And not she……
The attempts to match numbers and their meaning to natural phenomena stemmed from an inner understanding that order could be created in the chaos of things that are constantly changing. And precisely the impulse to conform to the movements of the stars points to the forward-looking human spirit. Because here you can measure how the theory fits the experiment. It is true that the church that insisted on curbing thought and remaining ignorant tried to stop exactly this process, such as Galileo's act.
The last paragraph of your comment highlights this very matter. You claim that you do not need an explanation regarding the compatibility of mathematics with the conduct of nature. Precisely because of your belief in natural and structured compatibility.
But this is exactly why man can progress in the past and will progress and improve in the future.
There will always be people who will ask themselves the meaning of the phenomena "that were taken for granted until now".
So that we will continue to move forward and with a supervised view we will not underestimate the way our predecessors did.
On a recent topic - you should read the book "The Longitude"
Higgs:
I think the criticism is misplaced.
Indeed, nature should not be expected to take into account man's mathematical abilities, and indeed he does not do so.
Most of the systems in nature - even those whose laws we understand very deeply - are too complex for our ability to mathematically analyze and the weather is just one example of this.
Of course there are also aspects of nature where we do not have any tools - mathematical or otherwise - to make accurate and detailed predictions of the events and I will not bother you if I say that this is the case in quantum theory where most of our predictions are statistical.
Therefore the second quote you gave does not indicate a misunderstanding. There is a difference between non-compliance with mathematics and non-compliance with one's mathematical ability and as mentioned - there are also natural phenomena for which even compliance with one's mathematical ability is not sufficient for accurate and detailed prediction.
The example given by the author also indicates that this is his intention. After all, his whole argument is based on the fact that today we know more than before and our mathematical ability allows us to make more accurate time calculations. It is clear, therefore, that he is not even talking about what man will ever be able to calculate - in principle - but about what he knows how to calculate at a given stage of his development.
Since our mathematical ability is constantly improving and since we do not expect nature to change with it, then this claim of the author is self-evident.
The first quote is not problematic either.
At the quantum level - nature is indeed random, and at higher levels - although the quantum randomness is offset (usually - not always) statistically, its place is taken by the chaos of the size of the systems and their complexity - a complexity that takes them out of the range of our ability to predict and makes them random in any practical sense (even if not in the philosophical sense).
This is what the author meant.
To me, the fact that mathematics corresponds to nature does not require an explanation at all.
This seems to me to be one of the simplest things to understand.
On the contrary: I cannot imagine a world where mathematics is not suitable for describing nature.
I think that such a world is not possible at all, but even if this thought of mine is only the result of a limitation arising from being human, then the anthropic principle assures us that it is not possible for a being who thinks like us to find himself in a world that does not obey the laws of logic (from which the laws of mathematics derive).
Amnon Carmel
An amazing collection of egg babbling and complete ignorance of exact science
The sample of quotations below indicate the signature that issued this calf.
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"However, the universe operates in a random manner even when it comes to phenomena with regular cycles, such as the movement of the stars."
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"One should not expect nature to take into account man's mathematical abilities."
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Maybe bother yourself to read a bit on Wikipedia, there is Hebrew if you find it difficult to read in English.
For example, an article on the philosophy of mathematics in which the well-known quote written in a famous article by Eugene Wigner from 1960, "The Unreasonable Efficiency of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences", in which he argued that the fact that mathematics and the natural sciences are so compatible cannot be accidental, but It's hard to explain.
The fact that even the mathematical patterns created for the most abstract subjects found themselves after a while at the center of scientific and technological application such as relativity and the standard model completely contradicts the ignorance you are trying to present in your article.
I see no point in expanding beyond you because according to my impression you are not aware of the main points and certainly not aware of the details. As the well-known article I will not confuse you with the facts.
The additional month in the Hebrew calendar is Adar A and not B
On the XNUMXnd of Adar we celebrate the holiday of Purim and fast during the Fast of Esther and also remember the martyrs of Tel Chai on the XNUMXth of Adar
How did our ancestors live for hundreds of years in the days of the Torah? I once read that a "whole year" was then counted every 3-4 months and not 12 like today. This is true?