After a long period of building tension and viewing, the movie "Sirius" was released and the emails of all science lovers are filled with questions, many of which express a longing for the miraculous, even if it is at the expense of scientific truth. Gilad Diamant Yonat Ashchar and Noam Levitan examined the issue and their findings
After a long period of tension building and watching, the movie "Sirius" was released. From the movie site:
"Earth has known visits from advanced interstellar civilizations, capable of moving through other dimensions at speeds higher than the speed of light. They use energetic propulsion systems that can advance us into a new era. Humans also developed such systems, but those in power suppressed them in order to keep us at the mercy of fossil fuels. It's about time you knew it…”
Wait, don't run away. I do not intend to deal with this film here, but only with the highlight that promoted its marketing - revealing the identity of the mysterious creature in the picture on the left.
In this entry, I will try to focus on the facts: the result of journalistic investigations and professional opinions of experts who have tested the creature. We will leave the dramatic narration, the pounding music and the many wild speculations around the subject to the filmmakers and mystery promoters of all kinds.
Yonat Ashchar, a doctoral student in the Department of Psychology and a master's degree in biology from the Weizman Institute, and Noam Levitan, a doctorate in biology from the Weizman Institute, were full partners in the research and writing. You can read their articles on the SciPhile blog, as well as in "Galileo" magazine.
The travels of the dreaded alien dwarf
Our story begins in the Atacama Desert in Chile, in a ghost town that was used for nitrate mining before the First World War.
One chilly morning, a local resident wanders through the ruins of the abandoned city looking for coins, bottles and other objects of some historical value. When he was digging near the church he came across a white cloth wrapped in a purple ribbon, and in it, before he noticed, a tiny creature was lying quietly! Without life of course.
The story was published in a local tabloid in October 2003 under the title "The discovery of a terrible extraterrestrial dwarf causes a riot in Iquique!".
The first hypothesis was that it was a human fetus. One UFOlogist was not convinced that it was a human embryo and added - "My personal opinion is that it is a very strange thing. I cannot determine that it is an extraterrestrial." Another Chilean paleontologist claimed to have noticed what appeared to be the remains of an umbilical cord and a mark on the left parietal bone that could explain the strange shape of the skull. In his opinion, the case has nothing to do with aliens. A local biologist said there was no doubt that it was a mammal and almost certainly a human. Everyone agreed that it was difficult to move forward without a more thorough examination of the creature.
This is how it looked on local television at the time (mainly for Spanish-speaking video fans. The original source, his friend who photographed the creature for the first time and a well-known local UFOlogist are interviewed):
The originator of the creature sold it to a local businessman for a few tens of dollars, who, after charging money for the right to photograph it, sold it to a rich entrepreneur from Barcelona who is the head of IIEE - "The Institute for Research and Study of Extraterrestrial Life". In July 2004 the creature was presented to the Royal Academy of Sciences of Barcelona.
One report, signed by two doctors, described the creature and ruled out the possibility that it was a simple hoax.
The second report was written by Francisco Etxeberria Gabilondo, a professor of forensic medicine who maintains that it is a mummified body with all the typical characteristics of a human fetus. "When you take everything into account, the proportions of the anatomical structures (skeleton and softer parts), the degree of development of each of the bones and its macroscopic structures - it is possible to determine without a shadow of a doubt that this is a mummified fetus... Both based on the length of the body as well as the length of the bones, it can be estimated that it is a fetus About 15 weeks old."
The professor explained that due to the absence of flora bacteria in the digestive system of the fetus (place where the decay of corpses usually begins), fetuses can be preserved relatively well for a long time. He estimates the age of the corpse in tens to hundreds of years. In addition, it should be mentioned that the Atacama Desert is one of the driest areas on Earth, which provides perfect preservation conditions. The area is famous for 10,000 year old mummies found there (much older than those of Egypt).
It seems that the affair has come to an end. The end of the mystery. Years passed and the fetus continued to rest on its bed in peace.
Maybe an extraterrestrial after all?
That's when Steven Greer, a doctor turned full-time OB/GYN, came into the picture. In 2009 he came to Barcelona to witness the fortification. Three more years later, at the end of 2012, another series of scientific tests was launched.
X-ray and CT scans were performed. Tissue samples were taken from the bone marrow of two ribs, as well as from within the skull. All samples were taken and stored under sterile conditions and brought to the researchers' laboratories at Stanford.
Tests
- Ralph Lachman, an expert in the field of skeletal deformities, analyzed the photographs. His inspection report Appears here
- Garry Nolan, a genetics expert from Stanford, was responsible for the genetic analysis (His report appears here). To date, only a partial DNA test has been performed.
This is a person with only 10 ribs (instead of 12 in a normal person), and a skull with an unusual structure (apparently it was crushed after death).
The surprising statement of the doctor is that his age (at the time of his death) was 6-8 years. He deduces this from the condition of the growth cartilage in the knees. This finding is of course inconsistent with the size of the body (only about 14 cm). Lachman notes that he has seen many deformities in his life, but this case does not fall into any category of dwarfism or deformity that he knows of. A possible explanation for this discrepancy between the size of the fetus and the condition of the cartilages and bones could be a syndrome of accelerated aging. For reasons that Lachman does not specify, he thinks that this explanation is unlikely in this case.
At the end of the report, Lachman lists a series of genetic defects that are linked to the deformities he found, recommends that they be tested and points out that none of them alone is able to explain all the variety of deformities found.
Garry Nolan, an expert in genetics from Stanford, was in charge of the genetic analysis (his report appears here). To date, only a partial DNA test has been performed.
The DNA testing process begins with taking a sample from the organism. Since the DNA in all cells is the same (except in special cases), a sample can basically be taken from anywhere in the body. In this case, a sample was taken from two ribs.
The next step is extracting the DNA from the sample. Nolan produced 12.5 micrograms (millionths of a gram) of genomic DNA, meaning DNA found in the nucleus of the cell. When you take a sample from an organism that died a long time ago, the DNA may be damaged - the molecule breaks down over time. In this case, although it is unclear how much time had passed since the creature's death, the DNA, according to Nolan's testimony, was of good quality.
In the next step, the extracted DNA must be sequenced, that is, find the sequence of nucleotides in it (DNA is made up of four types of nucleotides marked with the letters A, T, C, and G). For example, ACCCGATT is a sequence of 8 nucleotides. The human genome is "a little" longer, and includes a total of 3 billion nucleotides, which are divided into 23 long molecules called chromosomes.
The machines with which they sequence DNA do so by rebuilding it. Each DNA molecule consists of two complementary strands, and sequencing is done by separating a DNA segment and building one strand according to its complementary strand. The machine adds one nucleotide at a time to the strand that is being built, and can detect which nucleotide has been added. By repeating this step thousands or hundreds of thousands of times, DNA segments of thousands and tens of thousands of nucleotides are sequenced. The obtained sequences are saved as a data file on the computer.
In the sequencing process, errors sometimes occur when one nucleotide is mistakenly identified as another nucleotide. To reduce the effect of these errors and to make sure that in the end the correct nucleotide is identified, it is acceptable to sequence the same DNA more than once.
The comparison of the sequences found to the human genome that has already been fully mapped is carried out using the computer, and is similar to searching for fragments of sentences or paragraphs in a huge document. Since the sample contains many cells and many repeats, i.e. many copies of the genome, the sequenced segments end up containing the entire genome with overlaps between them (in the case of Nolan's tests the entire genome was covered about 18 times).
In fact, it is not necessary to sequence the entire genome in order to come to the conclusion whether the source of the sample is human, since we know which regions of the genome are unique to humans. As close as our genome is to those of other animals, the differences are large enough to be easily recognized (the number of chromosomes, for example, is different even between us and chimpanzees).
The initial mapping conducted by Nolan found a good match to the human genome (91% of the sequences were successfully mapped). Although 9 percent of the sequences found have not been successfully mapped to the human genome, most likely due to errors in sequencing or changes that have occurred in the original DNA over the years, this does not mean that only 91% of the sequence is human, but rather that 9% of the sequenced segments (including as mentioned a number multiple copies of the genome) are not suitable for use. The rest make up the entire genome (overlapping about 18 times) so that its origin can easily be determined.
In addition to the genome found in the nucleus, animal and plant cells also contain separate DNA, found in intracellular organelles called mitochondria. Nolan and his team also sequenced this DNA, and found characteristics common to humans from the west coast of South America (supporting that the sample did indeed originate from Chile).
In a preliminary analysis, no known mutations were found that could explain the various deformities. It is possible that these are unknown mutations, that the disorder results from a combination of mutations in several genes at the same time or that the DNA mapping with a better resolution will reveal known mutations.
Nolan plans a deeper and better analysis later, and promises to publish a peer-reviewed article in a respected journal.
The main issue that remains open is the contradiction between the age estimate given by Dr. Lachman (how many years) and the minimal size of the body. Either this is an extreme form of dwarfism, or the age estimate is wrong. We will patiently wait for the official article that will surely address the issue.
So maybe at least half extraterrestrial?
Greer does not give up easily, and raises the hypothesis that this is a hybrid creature, the product of a pairing between a human and an extraterrestrial. Here is what Yonat has to say about it:
There are several characteristics in the way our cells are built, how the genome is built and how it is translated into proteins, which provide very strong evidence that all life on Earth - including bacteria, plants and all animals - evolved from one origin, meaning that we are all related. Our genome is very similar to that of a mouse, and contains a significant similarity to that of cyclamen.
A creature that evolved on a planet might be completely different. Even if it is made of cells similar to ours, and even if its genetic material is made of DNA, there is no reason for the intracellular mechanism to be similar to ours.
Steven Greer raises the possibility - not entirely improbable - that the origin of life on Earth is in bacteria that came from another source, so it is possible that life here and on the other planets developed from a common origin. Even if we assume this to be true, life on other planets has evolved separately from ours for billions of years, and the aliens that come from them will still be much less close to us than, say, a goldfish, or even a pine tree.
The idea that such a different life form could not only have intercourse with a human, but produce offspring, is therefore ridiculous. And finally, we can only quote Carl Sagan, who, when asked about this subject in light of the character of Spock in the "Star Trek" series, who was a mixture of an alien from the planet Vulcan and a woman from Earth, replied that it would be much easier for him to imagine a genetic hybrid of Adam and Petunia than in the hybridization of a human and an alien.
91 תגובות
I have never come across such a night of truths, half-truths, nonsense and various and strange speculations, concocted by the writers.... A complete salad and hash of words, which prove only one thing - the writers marked the goal long before the so-called "research" and all the work was done only to verify what they had already decided about which was the "pure truth".... I would expect such nonsense to be published perhaps in the gimmicks section of Mako, but not on a site that claims to be a "scientific" site...
We want to put the issue on the air, does anyone want to talk about it? But not angry and childish responses like we saw here. Anyone who comes to prove something or disprove something would be welcome to give a link to the proofs. It is impossible to have such a discussion. People accuse with lies and then confess that the whole issue is not interesting. For serious people only!
Potter is also interesting...
interesting
: )
Orty
On occasion, also try to find out if Nissim has courted... 😉
Orty
good luck with that
Orty
Thanks for the interesting information.
You can ignore miracles, he's just looking to get famous.
If I'm not mistaken, I brought a link to the hearing and you claimed that it was all nonsense and charlatanism. I have no interest in this conversation with you anymore. You are not as interesting as you think. I am responding solely out of the desire that when people enter the article and see recent comments they will not come across your delusional comments and think it is the human material reading the science website. And again, if the topic does not interest you, then, refrain from trying to sound interested.
Orty
No one is angry. I answered you why no one reviews the hearing. I showed that the claims themselves are unfounded - at least all the ones you brought.
I'm not saying there aren't aliens. I claim that today there is no reliable evidence that aliens have visited here. And I also expressed my position that I do not believe that a species can survive long enough to develop technology that would allow such space travel.
What's wrong here?
I don't like it when people who claim to be truthful write sentences like, you're embarrassed now, I made you cry... when in fact, later on you found out that the topic doesn't interest you at all and that you don't think it should interest anyone. If it doesn't interest you then why are you responding at all? If it's hard for you to stick with the idea that someone thinks this issue is important and that the alternative media should form some group or position or activity, deal with it alone. Your rebuttals did not move anyone. The allegations against the Belgian operations commander were false. The claims against worldwide research on the subject of the pyramids were shallow and your claims that a spacecraft that does not want to be seen should turn off lights are childish on a severe level. I repeat my original purpose: this topic is important and interesting, and if it doesn't interest you, you can find another occupation. Inciting the interesting discourse that developed into a shallow pingpong of refuting and winning is not my fault, so I tried to stop responding to you. My temptation to put you on the spot was stronger than me, and I apologize if you were offended. Next time, before you "embarrass" people, think about how you can create a discourse that both sides learn from and not a discourse of winners and losers. All the best.
Orty
You're still not paying attention to what I'm saying.
All you do is attack me because... why are you really attacking me?
I doubt you being a pilot but I'm sure about the task you've been assigned. to seal the discussion with ridiculous accusations. I will end on an optimistic note that characterizes the victory of truth at the conference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK5i4eruufs
: )
Orty
I think there is no coverage of the hearing because it is of no interest to anyone.
I explained why I "despise" all kinds of people
And you don't pay attention to what I say, but look for excuses for why I say the things.
Orty
I despise those who are proven to be liars. This includes anyone who practices numerology and this includes Eric von Daniken.
I assume that there is no coverage of that hearing because it is not of interest to those who deal with science and skepticism.
And again Orti, my friend - you don't answer what I asked...
I am here to wonder why there is no coverage of the hearing committee. You are drawn to anger and contempt for all writers, who prove deeper things. And as mentioned, you respond exactly as I expect you to. Keep going and don't forget to look in the mirror.
Orty
I said I didn't believe they would come because of pragmatic reasons. I'd be happy if I'm wrong, because the reason I don't believe they will come is because I believe any sufficiently sophisticated species will destroy itself before developing the appropriate technology to fly such distances/times. This is my opinion based only on a lot of thought.
Orti - I didn't disqualify people for no reason. I dismissed the opinion of the operations officer in the Belgian HA because he presented a completely ridiculous view. I do rule out anyone whose profession is "numerologist" because he is a charlatan by definition. He may be telling the truth but the man's credibility is definitely in doubt.
I rejected the evidence of Erich von Daniken, and not only because the man was proven to be a charlatan (and also admitted it in some cases), and a known plagiarist. What is wrong with what I am saying here?
Orti - there are UFOs - there is no debate about that. There are aircraft in the world that no manufacturer/government wants citizens to know about. This explains a large part of the observations. There are amazing meteorological phenomena that explain another part of the observations. For example - I suggest you learn about a phenomenon called glory ("pilot's halo" in Hebrew, although it can also be observed from the ground). A lot of scams were discovered - specifically, the same wave of sightings in Belgium. For example - read the
http://www.skepticreport.com/sr/?p=162
Your anger at me quite surprises me. And also your (non-)attention to the facts I brought is surprising. The truth - why should I be surprised? After all, the last thing you're looking for is the truth...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/262863497134932/
Let's go ahead and be pragmatic. You claim that every movie and every comment posted here is a fake. You add and claim that you have no reasons to believe that aliens will come. You cancel any testimony of any person because of his profession or because of the possibility that it is a forgery, in addition, you magnify and do with your complete disdain the evidence presented at the hearing, by researchers who have been involved in the field for decades. And even disregards the documents presented by 15 countries, which prove that there is an inexplicable phenomenon of unidentified objects (I have not yet said aliens from another planet). I'm glad you're here to argue these claims together, because that's exactly the old method in question. Cancellation and disparagement, slander and ridicule. And as I already wrote, you are only mocking yourself and strengthening my claims for the method of removing the issue from the agenda. You are welcome to write again, with your known arrogance, that everything claimed has been refuted, and just so that you are satisfied, this time I will not respond. You served all the goals I set for myself above and beyond what was expected. The fact that we remained last in the discussion shows that your only interest is to seal the accuracy of the sentence "disproved". So come on, the absurd Nissim who doesn't waste his time on something he doesn't believe in but spends days reacting with excessive arrogance as if he has the answers to everything. Re-write your Shafer saying and time will take its course. When the UN declares a cable with a committee that there are things in it, I only ask that you look in the mirror and remember my words. Orty.
Orty
I don't waste time investigating something I don't believe exists. The reason is not that aliens are impossible. The reason is the level of the people who bring "evidence".
My father has my name and I explained why I don't want to be publicly identified by my name. I always use the same nickname and I don't understand why it's not "straight" enough.
Now let's be pragmatic. I explained the "sight" of the locking of the Belgian F16. Do you get my explanation? I gave a link to another movie of the same flight if you want to dig deeper.
I will explain again - in the film we see a common phenomenon of "donkeys". These are goals that appear on the screen as a result of an interruption or malfunction. You don't see a stable lock on a target there - after all, you don't see any target after the lock! Beyond that the targets are close - about 5 miles - but this range does not change as you expect it to.
Therefore - a Belgian officer who describes something different from what I see in the film - does not exactly convince me.
What's your next piece of evidence? Pyramids? What makes you believe they were built/designed by aliens? In South America their shape is really different so I don't think there is a common designer for both. But - come and I will give you a simple explanation that a child in kindergarten will understand. In the past we built in many forms. Cubes, cylinders, cones, pyramids, etc. But what's the deal? Only the broad-based forms have survived over the years. Therefore - what remains standing to this day are the more stable buildings.
My wife is a kindergarten teacher - and she confirms that children know this 🙂
Next - do you want me to expand, again about Antikythera? Or on a battery from Baghdad? Maybe on the Nasca tracks?
I would love a serious challenge - but not a directed youtube movie like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZuZ_ha2XtM
Understand me - long may aliens come!!!! I really hope there is, but I have reasons to believe they will never get here (not religious reasons…..). And I have no reason to believe that they did arrive.
I would appreciate it if you could show me otherwise.
Honesty is a quality of people who identify themselves. Refutations are facts that contradict theories that lack the scientific aspect. On the assumption that you really are a "pilot" and can really explain the existence of pyramids and lithographs of ancient astronauts, I ask that you provide a link to the scientific investigation in question, and not that you give a closed sentence like "the beaver in the garden" and conclude that it was "disproven". Good luck solving humanity's great mysteries.
post Scriptum. It's a shame you didn't appear before the hearing committee if your rebuttals are so conclusive and you research the field. For now, everything I've read in talkbacks seems like a method to dissolve a serious conversation. If you are not a researcher of the field, you can direct me to other real researchers or name the books that refuted the mystery of the pyramids. I have no interest in this candy dialogue where you claim to have the answers when you are actually a shadow of a man with a big complex.
Orty
I didn't expect you to relate to my words.
Just be precise - there are testimonies, so to speak, of "tens of thousands of people". You cannot honestly claim that the rebuttals are so-called, without addressing them.
In particular - several examples were brought here and they were refuted.
Gil, sounds interesting and we really need to gather witnesses. It's just a shame that there are people here who have authorized themselves, on their own accord, to refute, so to speak, testimonies of tens of thousands of people around the world and documents of 15 countries. Do not pay attention. He is a servant of the system. And like I said, this talkback will always end with a skeptic to prevent people from uniting and demanding the truth on the subject. I invite you to join my group, click on the name, and you are there.
Orty
When you relate to what I write, I will relate to your words.
Why do I underestimate the numerologist? Maybe because he's a liar? Maybe because he steals money from people I love?
I'm not an expert (except maybe for the radar issue…..) but I check every piece of evidence before I draw a conclusion from it.
Without being an expert I refuted everything you said.
What else do you want?
Here is the group on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Citizen-Hearing-on-Disclosure/153897638102152?fref=ts
I looked into the matter and three witnesses (brothers) say that it happened in 56 or 57. A flying saucer hovered over Tel Aviv slowly and disappeared in the sea horizon. It is definitely interesting that there is no media coverage of this conference you talked about. This article also disappeared as if it wasn't on the website page even though the number of comments here is amazing. I suggest a follow-up article, if of course the site editors don't think it detracts from the value and seriousness of the site. The subject of extraterrestrial life is very interesting and the dismissive media attitude causes thousands of witnesses a year to keep quiet or think they've gone crazy.
Pseudo skepticism. 🙂 Oh, you're funny, Nissim. Keep making yourself an expert, we laugh all the way to the UN.
And on the subject of the Israeli family: if he was a hair stylist then would you take him seriously? Your claims are petty and reinforce the pesso sketisis approach
Miracles, read and understand:
"...the investigation itself did not reach a clear conclusion. If there was a conclusion proving your claims, the issue would not have come up at all."
You didn't contradict anything, you only strengthened. Keep it up!
Miracles
Why didn't you mention that it was he who "filmed" the Israeli family videotapes orange UFO during family barbecue
Is he a numerologist? Second hand from a doctor……..
Orty
I contradicted all your points, and especially the "locking of the machem" - why do you ignore what I say?
Nisim and my father,
Bringing up the topic in detail in an endless thread positions the dialogue as petty when none of us (no one!) has been researching the field for decades like the witnesses in the committee. Of course, it is not acceptable to criticize the Belgian Air Force when the investigation itself did not reach a clear conclusion. If there was a conclusion proving your claims, the issue would not have come up at all. The attempt to place a "last word" on the part of the skeptics is one of the tools of the old media to silence sensitive issues. I expect a skeptical response to close the discussion, because that's how it works.
To all the convinced, thanks for the support. The knowledge that we are many versus few proves something that cannot be disproved. There is a cover-up and there are scientists working, few against many to reveal the truth. Be strong and courageous.
Ray
He was not a military officer - he was a chief operations officer. I showed you in detail that the mech film does not show a stable lock on an abnormal target. What you see is the so-called "donkeys". The targets do not move on the screen and do not reflect a body in the sky.
Again - there is no lock on a target.
Say - do you understand what the symbols on the screen mean? You see that the targets are 5 miles away - but they don't move? Do you see there is no lock on a target? Do you see that the CATA is above the antenna?
Miracles
I brought you a direct interview with the commander of the Belgian Air Force. I think he knows what he's talking about.
Read about the whole event in Belgium. See the sequence of events
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_UFO_wave
To dismiss this case or to state that it has been disproved is pseudo-skepticism
The doubts as to the alien origin of the creature are absolute and not just reasonable.
The principle is scientifically proven things, scientifically proven "reasonable doubt" versus things that only a small doubt can prove scientifically and the rest is not visible to the eye.
Yossi, there is something about you.
smith, that's all I wanted to say, but there is a method of editing content and positioning titles that is irreversible, no matter how much is written in the content itself, facts that are difficult to explain, the title will be "recycled story, new doubts". The main thing is not to break the pig. And likewise there will always be "experts" in certifying themselves.
Ray, I think we've already established a majority of the convinced, nice job. You are invited to a group I started where there is free YouTube news from content editors using terms like creationism or VTR.
With the publication and the firm standing in the review we can see that we are on the right path.
Nissim and everyone, I read your thread carefully, in my opinion you and the user Orti represent the eternal debate between the believers and the skeptics, I have a feeling that in your past you were also a "believer" and as a result of the knowledge you gained, you became blind to the subject and that's how you became a skeptic (and I can and understand that) While Orti represents the enigma the question mark that causes us as humanity to evolve. It doesn't mean miracles that if you were a pilot or a Sneek journalist you have the right to flourish your skepticism in others who asked a simple question "Why is there no media coverage in Israel of the largest and most serious UFO conference ever held?" I also find it a bit puzzling.
In addition, please give your opinion on the video that was leaked about a year ago by "Wikileaks"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvcYUsQzfxo
And a video from Israel that was released this week:
Disclose.tv - Israeli family videotapes orange UFO during family barbecue
Personally, I suggest to my friends to look at both sides of the coin because this is the way of the truth.
And miracles, don't settle for just skepticism...
in friendship :)
Ray … and everyone else
Every evidence you brought - I have shown that it has been disproved in the past. The map, the battery, the intercept tape, Antikythera, the Nasca tracks. Everything has been disproved.
The former Lockheed factories, as well as others, have in the past carried out experiments with extremely unusual flying vehicles. They were very happy that whoever saw it would think it was an alien. And not only in the US...
Orty
I have no problem with this committee. Whole books have been written about von Daniken's ramblings. Read them before you praise him.
I have already explained about the pyramids. When someone in the garden builds blocks - he gets a pyramid... Otherwise it falls 🙂
Regarding Antikythera - I commented to another commenter that this mechanism does not prove that there were aliens here - on the contrary.
Regarding the known map - I brought an explanation, and also regarding the battery. Why don't you address it?
And regarding the UFOs in Belgium - pay attention to the following section:
It is important here to underline that the F-16 pilot saw no UFOs at all. I spoke with some of his friends who had laughed with him about the UFO hypothesis. Had it not been for the SOBEPS team, these so-called mysterious radar returns would have been labeled as ordinary "angels". Another important thing is that at one point the "return" remained unchanged on the screen while the plane was maneuvering, which is indicative of an instrument failure. This is also what Lieutenant-Colonel Salmon from the Belgian Air Force Electronic War Center remarked when he was interviewed by journalists of Science & Vie Junior in 1992. And this is also what I had written in an article that the ten scientists had chosen to add to their press-release in October 1991
The famous triple spaceship? It has long been proven to work on the eyes.
Ray
Sorry - but I can't see what is described in the movie. There is an unlikely view there that I don't know. There is another film like this - I think it's from the same flight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3geA2Jp-n0
I don't know the version of the mech that is in the movie, but the mech shows a lock that doesn't make sense. There is a data block there (direction, speed and aspect) - but there is no target on the screen. Before locking you see blips 5-6 miles away that don't move in a logical way on the screen at all.
In any case - if the target was close to 1000 knots at such a low altitude - about 6000 feet - then there would have been a loud boom that the whole area would have heard - and this is not mentioned at all in the evidence from the ground.
The fact that the interceptor is above the height of the target is also illogical. No sane pilot would fly like that...
And why is there no audio recording?
It is interesting that there is "evidence" from the ground, but the pilots did not see anything - and this is a distance where there should definitely be eye contact. Why don't you show the target film (as far as I know, at close distances the VTR records the target and not the screen, but why mention that?)
There are several possible explanations for the film. Blocking you gives similar effects. There may be a malfunction in the receiver (happening…..).
Ray, like!!!
I read the thread carefully and I have to say that the arguments Orty gave and presented here are quite convincing. Obviously there is a tendency to hide here, and on the other hand there is also a tendency for people to ignore and deny, among other things because they think that this way they will be considered more reasonable/educated. Adi Zohar, Orti and their number actually have the courage and integrity that others do not have.
As a matter of fact - the aforementioned hearing came in order to try to reveal the same evidence at the end and not to present it during it.
I refer you to the words of (former) Canadian Defense Minister Paul Hyler, but reliable evidence does not impress you. You can search and see the files that the other countries, mentioned in the article, have released. Regarding the intikytra mechanism, I have no idea what you are talking about, it is new to me. What is your explanation for the pyramids? Do you claim that there is an explanation for one of the most mysterious things?! Please expand. Or at least post a link. And as for Von Dinko, do you have an explanation for the figures and the ancient lithographs that draw figures that look exactly like astronauts? And is one column that rusts or doesn't rust should disprove the whole theory about ancient astronauts? The question being asked, and I will ask it again, does the fact that the members of the committee decided, at the end of 5 days of testimony, that there are things that the American government must disclose, bother you personally. Do you see this issue as a "waste of time"?! Or a personal injury to your honor?! I regret my tongue and if I hurt you. The fact is that the committee decided to apply worldwide pressure to reveal confidential files. Regarding the existence of the cases there is no doubt, regarding the level exposed to them the problem exists. And whoever controls information controls the world. Do not be afraid. Nothing will happen if you realize that hundreds of thousands of witnesses and facts contradict your narrow world. All you need is to open a small hatch to the possibility that you are serving the owners of the Serrara in the name of the scientific facts but choose to ignore the facts that put you at an intellectual disadvantage. I do not claim to be able to explain the ancient astronaut theory nor the pyramids. I can only link people reading this site to things I think will be of interest to them. The conclusions from the investigation of the alien are extremely interesting and it is impossible to solve them as a mutation and forget about the subject. as well as the decision of the hearing committee. If there is anything that deserves to be revealed, I serve it, and in the meantime the truth leads you ten thousand - zero. Again, sorry for the language. I just reply in the same currency.
Miracles
'And I inform you that there is no VTR film in the world that shows a target performing an abnormal maneuver, such as hovering at altitude, changing direction sharply or accelerating abnormally.'
This is exactly what the commander of the Belgian Air Force describes and shows documented
(The description video is short, 3 minutes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7psGj4M1ZI
Orty
It is not clear why you are arguing with this jerk Nissim. Anyway, what you say sounds interesting
Orty
As one who has many, many hours of flying in fighter planes (and therefore I do not identify) - there is no instruction anywhere in the (western) world to launch before identification. And I got to "deal" with quite a few UFOs……..and I inform you that there is no VTR film in the world that shows a target performing an unusual maneuver, such as hovering at a height, changing direction sharply or accelerating abnormally.
I saw the evidence - I was not convinced.
Disprove von Daniken? I have already shown you that the map of Antarctica is false, the routes in Peru (Nazca) are false, and the battery from Baghdad is false. Even Po Daniken himself admits that the story about an iron pillar that does not rust was a lie……
And I also explained to you why in several places we actually built pyramids.
You mentioned the Antikythera mechanism. I explained to you that this mechanism describes the world as it was known to the Greek world (about a century BC). His model describes the world as seen from Earth. Come on Orti - the sun in this thing circles the earth.
You chose to ignore everything I wrote. But - you claim that everything I wrote is unfounded.
I'd love to continue talking with you - just try to tone it down a bit.
Sequencing is quite unequivocal, while the body of evidence is not unequivocal, and an expert's assessment of the state of cartilage erosion is also unequivocal, as mentioned, other phenomena may also create accelerated erosion. In particular, mitochondrial DNA undergoes many mutations at a higher rate than the rest of the genome, so if they also tested it, then for sure she is human! Otherwise, they would immediately recognize the difference easily.
The phenomenon is interesting.
You expect me to explain how alien technology works? Or maybe I'll explain the reasons why the aliens want us to see them?! So the simple reasoning is this: they want us to see them so we know they exist. But in encounters with the Air Force they run away because the instructions are: shoot first and ask questions later. Any other questions you could answer yourself if you saw the evidence? What happened? did i make you cry You claimed that Von Dinko was disproven and you really made me laugh. Please detail how exactly Von Dinko can be disproved. Give me one fact and I will be convinced.
And another small detail, why don't you identify like the other writers? When you click on my name they come to me. are you afraid of something Or are you not used to standing behind the things you write, like a serious person?! You thought you made Adi cry and that you silenced me when in fact you played right into my hands. All your arguments were heard by the committee members and refuted by the witnesses. Highly recommended for anyone who is looking for evidence, and not for those who claim to believe in aliens. The expropriation of science from those in power is necessary and the Internet is the new tool for creating a different reality. I am not addressing the "believing" side of anyone, only the convinced side. See and you will be convinced.
Orty
So far there is no evidence of aliens visiting the earth. the people in the field?? I thought scientists were the people in the field, not a bunch of headline seekers.
And I asked a question - you didn't answer. Why do spaceships go around with lights on?
Miracles, a jumble of nonsense is exactly the text that appears under your name. If you were to take it seriously and/or listen with minimal patience to the testimonies, you would discover reliable documents displayed in full screen in front of the members of the committee, which contain explicit instructions to produce two MDB movies with the use of the same characters by Disney and everyone else, so that people like you can make such arguments without thinking twice , as mentioned by Dr. Spock's comment at the beginning of the comments. The question being asked is why does it bother you so much that people involved in this get a platform? Why do scientists who have been researching the subject for decades and collecting evidence and documents have to justify themselves to narrow-minded people like you. For me, the news that the committee recommended the creation of a strong lobby in the UN to advance the issue against the US is a victory for the truth. You lost. Go about your business and let the people in the field do theirs. No one asked for your approval or signature. All the best.
Still a bunch of bullshit. Bring one reliable testimony and then I will believe.
It's very interesting that the aliens always look like the characters in the latest sci-fi movie that came out.
The spaceships of the aliens always have external lighting - every novice pilot knows that you don't turn on lights in a place where you don't want to be discovered.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/44561-group-wants-global-effort-to-unveil-ufo-evidence/?utm_content=awesm-publisher&utm_source=direct-b4in.info&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=copypaste&utm_term=http%3A%2F%2Fb4in.info%2Fr4AX
I watched the testimonies and it turns out that most of their evidence deals with a cover-up, so if there is evidence of a cover-up and there is no evidence of aliens in the US, but there is evidence of aliens in other countries, then maybe the issue should really be taken seriously. Orti, it surprises me that you think the media will deal with this, they have long since proven that any engagement with this issue turns into a color report on a delusional and ridiculous witness. And don't expect scientific websites to start messing with it either. They are fixated on thinking that this will make people stop taking them seriously. Just like what happens here. By the way, this is why many witnesses are afraid to admit that they saw strange things in the sky, but if you ask older people in Tel Aviv you will find that there were hundreds of UFO witnesses sometime in the sixties. Of course, then there was no Internet and the press wrote one disparaging article about it. I will try to find it for you. Don't let people underestimate you, justice is with you, bro.
Orty
There is no evidence - neither in the hearing nor in the film. I wish we found another life. In the meantime, a collection of nonsense and charlatanism...
Correction, now
"My desire to believe"?! From our previous correspondence, you have already claimed that I "lack imagination". And almost when tens of thousands of testimonies and documents from 15 countries in the world are presented against the cover-up of a mysterious body in the USA, I am the one who "wants to believe" and not you who chooses to look away. I am not attacking you and your personal opinions. Just showing the very interesting process of breaking the controversial topic into the wider consciousness. Unfortunately, comments like yours and those of content editors like you frustrate the very important purpose for which the Civil Hearing Committee convened.
Orty. Hearing is not a scientific tool I understand that your desire to believe in mysterious things is so strong that it makes you believe in all kinds of unscientific procedures.
Miracles
Are you talking about the movie Sirius or the civil hearing?
The Sirius movie shows the same evidence presented in this article, the only thing that is different is the consequences of the results. Does the tip of the imagination to known mutations turn the extraterrestrial into an earthly mutation or does the analogy between a person and a primrose turn the primrose into a mutation of a person?!
On the subject of the civil hearing, I trust the senators to refute and challenge (as they are authorized to do) against any fact or distortion.
Meanwhile, from watching the first days of the evidence, I have not seen any fact that has been disproved and no claim without proof.
Orty
They speak without evidence. Horrible waste of time.
In continuation of the interesting discussion that arose here and with great puzzlement on my part why the conventional media does not cover the most important event in the field, I am attaching here a link to the civil hearing that took place in the USA between April 29.4-May 3.5.13, XNUMX which was professionally and suspiciously ignored. In Israel we would call it a "committee without teeth" because the optimistic expectations of the hearing applicants were to create media pressure. Nothing moved the decision makers from their position not to cover the issue. Even the senators were shocked by this reliable and disturbing information. Nothing has changed. The world as usual. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaGADn2bx64
Adi Zohar
The problem is exactly every detail. The article you referred me to gives 3 examples that I refuted without any effort. You can't ignore it and say it's just details. Apart from specs - what else do you have?
I emphasize - the whole theory you are talking about is based on a collection of details. Give me every detail and I'll show you why it doesn't say what you want.
Miracles my dear
First the France link doesn't work.
Second, I don't want to argue here about every detail. (True or not) On a small level, the fact is that there are too many "open ends" scattered all over the world and the explanation given by the theory of the ancient astronaut is the only one that offers a reasonable answer to those questions. Until there is another comprehensive and more convincing explanation or separate explanations for each subject and matter, I, like many others, will continue to believe in this theory.
Thirdly - even if I accept everything you wrote as true facts, everything you wrote does not deceive or explain how it is that the knowledge that existed among humans in the past, does not exist in our possession today.
And finally: I am not embarrassed, on the contrary, I am proud of my opinions, which I also published on my book website http://www.deepinholylandground.com/
In various blogs and in the book itself which also gives room for imagination but is based on scientific facts.
I hope you will read and see the many links on the site and then I would be happy to receive a serious review.
Miracles my dear
First the France link doesn't work.
Second, I don't want to argue here about every detail. (True or not) On a small level, the fact is that there are too many "open ends" scattered all over the world and the explanation given by the theory of the ancient astronaut is the only one that offers a reasonable answer to those questions. Until there is another comprehensive and more convincing explanation or separate explanations for each subject and matter, I, like many others, will continue to believe in this theory.
Thirdly - even if I accept everything you wrote as true facts, everything you wrote does not deceive or explain how it is that the knowledge that existed among humans in the past, does not exist in our possession today.
I am not embarrassed, on the contrary, I am proud of my opinions, which I also published on my book website http://www.deepinholylandground.com/
In various blogs and in the book itself which also gives room for imagination but is based on scientific facts.
I hope you will read and see the many links on the site and then I would be happy to receive a serious review.
Adi Zohar
I have researched the Antikythera device extensively. A wonderful device that does not exceed the technological capabilities of the period in which it was created. On the contrary - the model of the sky that it represents exactly corresponds to the mistake of the Greeks about the model of the solar system.
And the map is shown there - please explain to me - why does the Amazon appear as two rivers? And why does Argentina not appear at all?
Please look here:
file:///C:/Users/dp13750/Downloads/THE%20MYSTERIES%20OF%20THE%20PIRI%20REIS%20MAP%20-%201.htm
And regarding the battery: there is a tar coating over the copper surface so that the device as it is cannot generate electricity at all. Beyond that, there is no place for wiring and no ability to fill electrolyte.
Just because something looks a bit like a battery (by the way - a very old type of battery) doesn't mean it's a battery at all.
I understand that you are now embarrassed….
Miracles
See starting from minute 4 of the HCV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5l0PUtc9_4
Adi Zohar
And if you really want to embarrass yourself tell me about those maps of places that man has never visited…….
Adi Zohar
Entire books have been written about the forgeries, plagiarism, lies and deceptions of Eric von Daniken. Von Daniken himself also admits that he sometimes talked nonsense.
So to say it has never been disproved is a lie. But this is your method ……….
My dear Nissim, Erich von Daniken was never disproved but accused of all kinds of financial matters (income tax) but he is alive and well and more popular than ever. Languages are sold and watched well all over the world. I know all the claims and explanations about the pyramids, some of them are linked on my website, but no one yet has a satisfactory answer on a scientific level as to how and why the pyramids were built throughout the ancient world. I suggest that you delve a little deeper into the sources linked to my book website before we continue our confrontation.
From the fact that it was wrapped in this way, it can be concluded that there is a very high probability that it was buried by a human being. In addition, you can tell by the fabric and its color when he was buried. If he was buried in the last decades by people, there is a low chance that he was buried by an extraterrestrial in a human way without hearing anything about it.
In fact there is no hint that this thing came from outer space... there are so many other possible scenarios including a race of dwarves secretly living among us, which is equally likely. Actually it explains a lot of legends.
There is indeed a ridge line in the skull, and it resembles a ridge line that exists in apes (and hominids in the past) that chew hard seeds. Perhaps the skeleton is of some kind of monkey (perhaps someone's pet) hence the 91% DNA similarity. For that of humans, only ten ribs and the small size.
not explained:
Why is there a "ridge line" in the middle of the Golgotha?
What happened to the fabric that wrapped the creature?
Smadar
I don't know what you're thinking, but the "creature" in the picture can't walk. The head is much bigger than the legs can hold.
Adi Zohar
Von Daniken's books were debunked many, many years ago.
The people all over the world came out of that place.
The same "ancient tracks" (called Nazca lines) that you describe are also clearly visible from the surrounding hills.
I've never heard of a map of a place where it's been proven that humans haven't been there before.
Know why the pyramids were built and probably know how they were built. Every child who builds with blocks learns quickly that the base should be wide and the top should be narrow.
So my question still stands...
Does it pass?
It is not possible that the remains is a fetus, due to the size of its head and the length of its arms.
The proportions are not right.
For an adult, the size of the head is about a ninth of his overall height on average, while the size of the fetus is about a third.
Look at the size of the head and the length of the arms in a baby, when he raises his hands up he can barely pass his wrists over his head.
The remains are of a hominid between several years old. Gets along with the condition of the cartilages.
I don't understand Spanish, have you mentioned dental structures in the jaw (are there teeth in the gums or erupted teeth...)?
"Tissue samples were taken from the bone marrow of two ribs"+"This is a person with only 10 ribs (instead of 12 in a normal person)" [=
to me,
There were methods for quarrying and transporting huge rocks in the ancient world. In any case, I see no reason why such an advanced alien culture would want to carve, arrange and paint in rocks.
In addition, maps were often inaccurate and it is a fact that many parts, including entire continents, were missing.
On the other hand, the last claim in the article is refuted since it is likely that an extraterrestrial culture with such advanced technology could perform "mating" in other ways as well as genetic engineering.
https://www.hayadan.org.il/science-or-pseudo-science-010397/
On the book's website you will find many links that can explain my "belief", but you only need to open your eyes and look around the world. And try to explain what has not yet been explained to us: how did we build in the ancient world with the help of huge rocks that today we do not have this knowledge and ability? Why in different parts of the world where there was no connection were we built pyramids that are everywhere connected to death and stars? How did humans "draw" signs that are only visible from the height of planes or satellites? How were accurate maps drawn of places that had never been visited? How and why did they build the pyramids? And in general, read a little "Erich von Daniken".
Just a moment, Gilad, do you accept the claim that this skeleton is human and that it did indeed live and walk among us for 8 years?! I do not think that a human brain can be compressed into a skull in a volume of a few cc. This should be a "Perma cipher" for every physiologist, shouldn't it?
Adi Zohar
Is there a reason you believe this?
Mathematical Biology
Maybe sit down for a moment and sort out your thoughts? I did not understand from the hashing of your sentences what you are trying to say....
I believe in the "Ancient Astronaut" theory and I even wrote a digital book about it called "Deep in the Soil of the Holy Land" This is a "true" story that took place in Israel in 2005. You are welcome to read it on my blog and go to the book's website with dozens of relevant links.
Link to the blog http://cafe.mouse.co.il/post/2888122/
and the book website http://www.deepinholylandground.com/
Lord of their creation. I didn't understand what you wanted. In no quote here does Dr. Ashhar support creationism. On the contrary, she explains that creation is much more complicated than evolutionary development.
The fact that all life has a common origin should not come as a surprise, it is also part of evolution, because once a certain mechanism works, it is determined and additional mechanisms develop on it. It's not a matter of planning, it's just your head that prevents you from understanding that there is no mixing in each and every generation of all the genes - as Rabbi Amnon Yitzchak - the famous professor of cartography claims (I heard his lectures unfortunately).
A quote from Dr. Yonat Ashhar:
"which provide very strong evidence that all life on Earth - including bacteria, plants and all animals - evolved from one origin, meaning that we are all related. Our genome is very similar to that of a mouse, and contains a significant similarity to that of a cyclamen."
This can be a serious mistake. Genetic and structural similarity can indicate a common designer and not necessarily a common origin. For example: in the world of human engineering, many objects have a striking similarity. Two cars of a certain manufacturer can be very similar to the point of being indistinguishable (unless you check the technical specifications).
And of course the very fact that many cars resemble each other indicates a common manufacturer and not their common origin. Against this it can be argued that cars should not be compared to organisms. For, organisms are able to reproduce and accumulate changes from time to time. But even if we found cars that replicated and contained DNA. The best explanation in such a case would be that they were created by a designer. And hence we must conclude the same about the living beings, which are much more complex.
It should be added that even if we had replicating material subject to natural selection. If we had placed it in nature it would not have gradually turned into a car, since there is no functional gradation between a replicating material and a replicating car / clock / mousetrap. Only the car engine contains dozens of components required for its minimal functioning.
Are you sure that Spock from Star Trek, played by Leonard Nimoy, and that his finger movement is taken from the blessing of the priests, isn't he Dr. After all, not only in the 23rd century, even today to become an astronaut - although it is not mandatory, a degree will not hurt because the competition is great.
This is the corpse of the Harkilian prince from Men in Black 1
The Galaxy is on the Oryon belt
It is clear that the dramatic narration and the conspiracies surrounding them are cheap cinematic manipulation. It is better to focus on this strange creature. The problem is that the media will not open a news release with this topic even if the evidence is overwhelming. According to them, the media does not treat such issues as part of a conspiracy, which is suspicious. An established scientific discovery not covered in the media. Why?! Why is the tendency to disdain knowledge so understandable in our culture. Isn't there an Israeli scientist who will lift the glove and examine the samples as well? Very interesting topic!
"In energetic drive systems" lol
Also: Spock from "Star Trek" is not Dr. Spock the pediatrician.
It is strange that the skull is closed like in adults