The brightness of the object was between minus 6 and minus 7, 100 times that of Jupiter, and about a quarter of the brightness of the moon.
Tonight (Tuesday, 8/7/08) at 20:17 the various emergency centers and the media received news about a body that passed quickly through the atmosphere from east to west leaving behind a trail (and according to some sources even two trails). Some reports also spoke of a whistle they heard. This is actually very bright. The chairman of the Israeli Astronomy Association, Yigal Fattal, says that the brightness of the trail was between minus 6 and minus 7, about a quarter of the brightness of the moon, and 100 times the brightness of Jupiter which is currently in the evening sky.
One of the eyewitnesses was Shlomi Eini, an amateur astronomer and active within the Meteor Division of the Israel Astronomical Society. "Actually, I wasn't on an organized observation, but I was sitting with friends on the balcony of my house in Ramat Gan. I saw the meteor moving from northeast to northwest (from east to west, north of the area where we are observing), when the trend was a downward trend, meaning that it finished its passage above us and sank to the horizon at a lower height than the height at which we saw it when it entered our field of vision. The journey took seven seconds, but since trees hide part of the sky from us, it is estimated that the entire route that passed over Israel took about ten seconds.
"As for the trail," says Eini, "he had a small trail. Since there is still a little light at such an hour, it was impossible to tell if a trail was left behind for more time." In my opinion, this is the product of some body burning in the atmosphere, and due to the slowness of the object, it does not rule out that it is a satellite that burned up in the atmosphere or other man-made space junk. Eini adds that the direction of the meteor does not associate it with any meteor shower. There is a thin shower known as burtoids, but the direction of this meteorite is not typical, so if it is indeed a meteor, it is what is known as a sporadic meteor.
Fatal, on the other hand, believes that it is probably not man-made, because most of the satellites fly in a general direction from west to east, and some of them - the polar ones - from south to north or vice versa, but only satellites launched by one space power fly in the opposite direction, Israel, and there is no known problem with one of the satellites The active Israelis. Fatal estimates, according to the reports about the whistle, that it is a stone that weighs a kilogram or two. According to Fatal, the meteor burned up entirely in the atmosphere.
Amir Barnett, a physics student at Ben Gurion University and an astronomy instructor at the Ilan Ramon Center for Youth Seeking Physics in Be'er Sheva says that it is possible that a meteorite can indeed break up into several fragments, which explains the claims of two trails. Depending on the type of material that was in it, it glows in certain colors. The bright illumination of the trail originates from the ionized air left behind by the meteor in its orbit.
104 תגובות
Why new.. the renewed one
Tomorrow..look at the sky..now..summer season..look at the sky..they are gray..or
Blue?..are there clouds?..or is the sun shining brightly?
Now, a summer night... and there are stars in the sky... in my country...
Those who are right..to see sees..and those who are not right to see..simple facts with ease
I don't see that either.
You have nothing to expect..in any case..that leaders in any field..will prove something to you..you
To yourself, at this point..responsible for your desire..to see it one way or another..see it as you understand it.
Good night.. and all the best.. really.
There are those who do not understand that they have stopped caring
For Qantas in possession..
And suppose there are dinosaurs, and suppose there are spaghetti monsters and suppose...and suppose...and suppose...
But what can we do, we don't live in a movie, and in the gray reality in which we live,
Extraordinary evidence or extraordinary theories require extraordinary proof.
why new
And what is sleeping?..let's say..since..there are solid..evidences for those who know something..in various secret orders
In some places around the world..
How will the commenter respond..if he is not mentally and spiritually mature for the matter?
Why don't you have some more developed... some less developed...
In general, as it turns out...partial knowledge of matters...incites mass hysteria...
Those who need to know, know.. and those who are not supposed to know.. the matter is hidden and hidden from him
Michael, don't jump over the navel. The fact that you try to contradict/negate the opinions of surfers on the site without any convincing arguments does not make you an authoritative bar.
I wouldn't be surprised if you're some 17-year-old kid in science class, trying to look smart. I saw how you bowed in your previous comments since you had nothing to write down.
Until you present interesting arguments - you are just as delusional stubborn here on the site.
Hanan:
I'm really interested to hear what you think about the collection of delusional people who joined you, their reasons and the way they argue.
Tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are.
By the way, does a hybrid fly to another planet? We haven't heard from him in a while.
to roy,
It seems that Meir is leading the debate to a place that is convenient for him
Ask him basic questions
1. Why did the amalgamation of the thousands of reports from citizens not catch a single extraterrestrial or
At least alien technology has been publicly displayed
2. How could it be that governments are allegedly hiding facts about aliens
The aliens are technologically much more advanced and they could do whatever they wanted.
3. Why are the aliens afraid to reveal themselves in public if the power and technology are on their side
4. How do you think they got to Earth?
A. For generations in a spaceship
B. THROUGH STARGATE
third. at a speed higher than the speed of light (contrary to the possibilities of current physics)
An example for foreigners
Cortez (an alien from the planet Spain) arrived in South America (Earth) today's Mexico with several hundred soldiers + horses + guns on sailing ships and destroyed the Aztec Empire that had hundreds of thousands of warriors and inherited the land.
I would be happy to receive answers
To Roy
I read the link you gave. It's really disappointing. The writer is frustrated that he does not appear enough and there are claims at the level of kindergarten, Disney and all the rest.
Even the cloud researchers are already talking more about the matter. If this is what keeps you strong in the tendency to resist ..something is wrong here.
The claim about the special documents that were obtained in a wrong way, and confirm that senior intelligence officers in the army and navy do not know about the Brawswell saucer crash, is neither serious nor relevant. If it is really secret, then 99.9% of the senior officers and intelligence did not know about it.
Beyond that, go back and see the link to the video with Larry King. The first to fourth sections are simply strong. Contrary to Philip's words, there is a lot of room for opponents. The point is not how long each side's position is presented, but how long a direct and poignant confrontation takes place between the parties since it is already one on one!
It turns out that when serious people from the academy (nuclear scientists) support the obscenities, the opponents drop a phase in their opposition and are careful because they are faced with laggards, if not more.
Good day to you
To Roy
It's a shame that this is your response. From her I learned that you are on the defensive. Why? I'm not interested in Larry King at all, but his actions. If he can lead to mental openness on such a special subject, what's good?
Larry as a type does not show sympathy for one side or the other, but tries in his direct way and without any biocracy to hear what the sides have to say. It gives a wide platform to the researchers of the clouds and at the same time a whole studio for the opponents of the phenomenon and its denial.
What I'm trying to say is not at all whether it exists or not. Everyone will explain this to themselves and agree or disagree. It means nothing to me. Except that Larry clearly does not accept things according to the authorities nor their simple explanations. He demands proof. It may be strange to see someone challenging such assertions, but in my opinion, his whole purpose is to provoke a debate and an issue for the purpose of examining the issue.
Larry King has the tremendous advantage of having an audience of tens of millions of people. And from here can come the urge to put the issue on the agenda and then maybe also find research budgets for it……which is actually what the researching scientific establishment wants!
If it's through Larry King, that's good.
Regarding Philip J. Krauss. I am not interested in his opposition since I do not enter into the strength of Larry King's persuasion and their willingness. It is enough for me that he is reliable among the US audience. I hope that his plans will lead to the creation of a new momentum for the study of the matter.
In the program I wrote you about, a very "strong" opponent appears who arrogantly attacks the witnesses for not being scientists. Of course he is wary of Stanton Friedman who is a nuclear physicist himself and when he talks about him he lowers his profile, what's more Stanton Friedman is sitting in front of him. Friedman also stings him and asks how, as a scientist, he talks about a subject he understands nothing about. How does this fit with his "scientific" approach to his opinion on subjects he does not understand... of course without an answer. Then the "opponent" turns to Friedman and asks him, as if in a final blow, whether Friedman saw for himself what he is talking about. And pretends to claim that all the witnesses are actually lying because they are hearsay witnesses. Another witness comes up in front of him again and answers him that he is indeed an eyewitness...and if he is not ready to be called a liar because he is a professor...and a university lecturer...
In short, the point is to get you and other people from the research field to be open to new ideas. Be ready in 360 degrees for discoveries from every angle. Get out of your routine and the situation you are in.
For a little more serious stuff, here you have interviews with witnesses, with scientists and professors who saw it with their own eyes. And with those who deny that their tactics are simple but well planned regardless of the subject.
Meyer,
You may find interest in reading the following article written, among other things, about Larry King's UFO program.
http://www.csicop.org/si/9611/ufo.html
The author, by the way, is Philip G. Krass, who has spent the last thirty years in a tireless search for conclusive proof of the existence of UFOs, without success.
The article, in short, describes how television programs influence the public in a kind of 'brainwashing', and how documentary programs that claim to search for the truth consistently ignore documents, facts and evidence that may pose a real obstacle to the UFO community.
To Michael and Cezana
There are currently online training programs on the subject. Since you are quite contemptuous of everything that is not scientific... then you should hold back a bit and listen to Larry King's talk show on CNN.
Larry began to pay attention to the phenomenon of concealment and deception of the public on the subject of the obams after many testimonies and proofs that came to him. In the last year, he started making some of his plans on the subject of concealment for the purpose of deciphering the mystery of the clouds. In any case, he doesn't receive the "government" messages like in the past about inflated balloons and gas experiments, as the US government liked to explain.
Since you, as serious scientists, are looking for a "talk" with more serious figures than that poor government minister in the UK or some member of parliament who does not understand what he is talking about, I suggest you enter the link and watch the broadcasts of Larry King's latest program (4 short episodes) with scientists , retired US Air Force officers and officers who were told to forget what they saw.
Larry does this in his direct way, without hesitation and while striving for the perfect truth.
From the link:
http://www.realufos.net/2008/07/larry-king-ufos-over-us-military-sites_18.html
The segment in question is how Abami disabled part of the American nuclear missile bases, how it was filmed... and more.
You can say anything about many people here in the forum. But the power of broadcasting with Larry King cannot be ignored when millions of people watch him and accept his credibility and trustworthiness.
He is also not ready to accept everything he is told and wants to check everything in depth and scientifically. He has no shortcuts. And that's exactly what started the whole debate here.
Someone wrote here a few days ago that today it is impossible to hide..he didn't know what he was talking about and who he was dealing with.
What's new, I liked it :). I haven't seen such a beautiful parody since Dead Scream 3
Niv Green,
I have come to the conclusion that you are absolutely right
Those little people who write here engage in a lot of rhetoric and words
And of course they are narrow-minded.
Now I feel that my consciousness has expanded and things that are seen from here are not seen from there.
When I looked at the sky at night and saw pleasant lights, I thought they were airplanes, satellites.
Today I know that these are flying saucers of extraterrestrials that return to the star and return
to the secret base in Roswell and there they will meet with the people from the administration in black with the headsets.
Regarding the testimonies of people who have seen, we will meet with extraterrestrials and they have sworn, so I believe them, obviously they will not lie.
Regarding Michael, I agree with you one hundred percent
You remember in the series STARGATE episode 35 when the aliens captured Michael
They shot him with a paralyzing horn and inserted a syringe through his ear.
Hence all his knowledge and technological inventions.
Now I look at the small and narrow-minded human beings and pity them.
So they won't work for us.
dialect,
With all your accusations, for now the only one using rhetoric here is you.
Your 'evidence' is based on there being a rumor that something exists. According to this you can prove any claim, starting with all types of gods, through the tooth fairy and ending with the flying spaghetti monster. And when everything can be proven, nothing is really proven.
For my part, the discussion is over a long time ago. have a nice weekend,
Roy.
Michael, I'm glad you listened to my advice and chose to retire on a high note.
good week.
giving:
First of all, there are longer correspondences on the site.
Apart from that, there is an internal contradiction in your claim because my whole argument is that the Heiserists did not provide proof and if you say that no one has proof of their statements, then the Heiserists in particular have no proof, but this is proof of my claim!
Wow, this is the longest correspondence I've seen in a long, long time
What is the debate about there is or isn't anyone has any proof so it's like "peeing in the wind" you'll just get a response regardless...
Niv Green:
He is the one who said: I wrote and I wrote, but as you say yourself - you fail to notice this. The very act of referring to a person like you is a disgrace, so I will indeed stop it.
Michael, just as I thought, you are nothing more than a mind-boggling rhetorician. You haven't written me anything of advanced content and you probably won't have anything concrete to write down either. It seems that you make things up, no one talked about conspiracies and other similar ideas, you are the one who thought of them. You have no way to contradict what I brought up except to blaspheme the said topic and belittle it.
If anything is delusional, it's you. I think you should retire as soon as possible, it's a shame you humiliate yourself even more than now.
dialect:
You ignore everything that was said and therefore there is no point in continuing to tell you things - not that the practice of science means conducting studies that are open to peer review, not that there is no such research in the field of UFOs, not that I know first hand who developed many technologies and it is clear to me that it is not about aliens, no that with every technology in the world it is known exactly who invented it and the scientific discoveries that led to it are also known and none of the people involved in it is an alien (you will soon claim that all the hundreds of thousands of people who have developed new technologies - including myself - are part of a conspiracy to gain fame) and nothing else .
You just don't understand anything and it seems to me that you don't care at all, so why should you care about mine? Keep delusional and leave me alone.
I don't have to prove anything to myself. There are no shortage of cases in which a lawyer proved and succeeded in presenting the accused as innocent even though all the evidence points to him being guilty. The same is true in science, not everything you claim to present as true, as a discovery, is indeed so.
I am not a believer, neither in evolution nor in extraterrestrials. My perception of life means that there may have been a slow and gradual development, but it would not have been possible without the intervention of some external factor.
By the way, I discussed this issue in the past with a doctor of biology from the Weizmann Institute and she even agreed with me that there was indeed some intervention in evolution in which she believes only that she cannot put her finger on what or who contributed to development.
The governments of the world cannot come one clear day and tell the citizens of the countries. "Yes, there are extraterrestrials, and they even visited Earth..." An unequivocal statement that there is life on other planets and they have also visited the Earth will have a massive impact on the entire conduct of life...for better or for worse, depending on who is looking at it.
We can continue this discussion for years and years, but as far as I'm concerned, we won't reach any insight.
PS - Roy, the facts exist in the field. We choose to see and recognize what is closer to our world view - and this is your full right.
Michael, my friend, it's okay in life not to always be right, I know it's hard for you - but what to do life is not only black or white - there is also something in the middle. By the way, I don't remember you proving that my opinions are wrong, like me, you also rely on books and articles you've read throughout your life. It seems that your faith in science is blind and any attempt to introduce you to a different way of thinking is doomed to failure.
to Heath.
dialect,
And I know mathematics, computer science and other technologies, including personal acquaintance with the developers of some of the technologies (the ones I did not develop myself) and I can tell you that neither I nor the developers of the other technologies are aliens.
Of course you can argue that what you may have found on Google is more reliable than what I know myself about what I opened - after all, this is exactly what certain people do who rely on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion to tell them who they are. Most of the Arabs, for example, believe that the events of 9/11 are an Israeli conspiracy (oh - I got confused - as a heyzerist you may also believe this - I have already discovered such a strange but logical correlation more than once).
As I told you - anyone can write on the internet and that doesn't make things right.
Those who "research" UFOs based on the Internet are not researching anything.
dialect,
That's exactly the problem. I already went to Google and looked for links to reliable and serious articles about the connection between aliens and contemporary technologies. I haven't found a single one.
On the other hand, I know the development of biological science in the last fifty years quite well, and I can tell you that there was no involvement of alien technology. Each discovery came after the previous one gave it a solid foundation to stand on and develop from.
Although my knowledge is not perfect in other technologies, I allow myself to rely on other serious people in these matters. Michael, for example, is a person who has been involved with computers and electronics for many years, and I value his opinion very much. If he tells me that computers are not the product of alien technology, then I trust him on that - what's more, every other person I've encountered who understands the field of computing and electronics says exactly the same thing.
So what's left? Either we are all lying, or your assumption is fundamentally wrong.
And by the way, you don't owe me your proof, but you do owe it to yourself. And if you are satisfied with your belief in an assumption devoid of real foundation, you will be perfumed. But you should recognize this, and not make claims when the rest of the world tries to explain to you that everything you say is no more grounded and factual than rumors and urban legends.
have a nice weekend,
Roy.
Look Michael,
There is no book that correspondence with you is fun here on the site, but there are even some things that are even more fun 😉
Roy, I don't owe you any proof. If you are smart enough - you can go to Google and find links yourself. After all, why should I bother if you and Michael stated in advance that this is nonsense and lies..?
Roy Cezana
What 250 episodes of Stargate is not good enough for you.
But why are you still kept a secret?
dialect:
You wrote so much nonsense that you worked on yourself and you brought a link that others worked on is such a big hassle that you decided I don't deserve it?
With your permission, I allow myself to think that you don't have any serious links and that you really know that the links you have are such that it would be easy for me to deny (because many times it is easy to deny false claims - the false claims that are difficult to deny are mainly those based on lies about the facts).
As you can see, I don't tend to be private about my brilliant mind and I tend to share its fruits with others. If you browse this site you will surely be able to learn from some of the things I wrote (which you may be open to receiving because they do not discuss aliens).
I, by the way, have never come across your contribution to the site….
dialect,
You have made a claim here that requires proof. where is the proof
Hey people, doesn't the debate tire you? Reminds me a bit of the headlines in the newspaper.
It says there that there is a high probability that Olmert received the envelopes. The big question that remains is, did he count the money or did he take it blindly?
what do you say?
Michael..with all due respect, you don't deserve me to bother for you and attach links. At the very least your approach will negate the scripture. I will leave you to distinguish yourself with your brilliant mind and your "so clear and certain" reality.
dialect:
I say again: articles can be written about whatever you want and as long as they are not subject to peer review or fail in such a review, they are not "scientific research" but just sketching.
I brought you examples of nonsense-talking ministers from the country, and there are those in every country.
The truth is that in another debate I would not have hesitated to bring the British minister who talked about aliens as an example of a minister talking nonsense.
My mind is open but there is "entry control" and not all nonsense enters it. The "open mind" you suggest I adopt is such that the mind falls out through the opening.
As someone who is very involved in technological developments and who is personally behind some of them, I know that your words about the alien origin of the technologies are wrong, but I agree with Roy's request to see which squeaky researcher announced this and how real researchers killed his nonsense.
dialect,
Please send me links to those articles and studies that imply that most of the technologies we have today come from alien technology.
Michael, the arguments you put forward are shallow and you know it well. You have to understand that I am not against you but trying to share with you a complicated, multi-interested issue that the media is slowly leaking information about through the various media tools. By the way, when I mentioned that some minister openly stated that extraterrestrials are visiting us, I meant a British minister and there is no shortage of senior and reputable people who have openly said that aliens have visited Earth. People who will carefully consider what they say yes otherwise they will be ridiculed. As a person who believes in science you must be open minded. You will be surprised to know that quite a few articles and studies have been published that hinted that most of the technologies you know today - were actually Hindus after other non-worldly aircraft. I do not doubt the man's skills, but there was still something that helped him reach his current achievements and much more is the way.
Hanan, why didn't you respond to my message?
(No. 41).
Meir:
It is good. Encourage each other so that you can continue to hold your delusional views and yet patronize others.
to idiom
Shame on your experience. The man is simply "trapped" inside himself. He also knows this, but is unable to get out of the blunder, according to his own words. And I quote: "Believing that someone saying something makes that something true is not just narrow-mindedness - it's a complete lack of horizons."
That is, if he tries to convince himself or change his mind, he is immediately faced with the statement that one cannot believe what is said because it is said, since it is a complete lack of horizons.
Your attempt to "obtain" partial and marginal consent from him is doomed to failure due to his very behavior and perception.
Niv Green:
We also have a minister who said that homosexuals cause earthquakes, a minister who promised to illuminate the entire State of Israel with less electricity than a single light bulb consumes and more.
Maybe you will rely on the words of retards? There you will find much more support for any nonsense you want.
Only science can give real answers. Everything else is a shame.
If there are questions that science cannot give answers to, then no one can give them answers - not even you.
Believing that someone saying something makes that something true is not just narrow-mindedness - it's a complete lack of horizons
Michael, this is not about drawing conclusions, but facts. You have enough ministers and senior people in governments who have explicitly said that aircraft not from our world have visited the earth. These are facts. Not everything can be scientifically explained. It would be foolish of you to think so and narrow-minded thinking.
dialect:
Speak for yourself.
I constantly check my opinions and compare them with the facts.
You think it is possible to "understand" that aliens have visited the earth and all serious scientists claim that it cannot be understood based on the findings received so far that all have a more logical explanation.
Forgive me, but I trust the reasoning ability of scientists in general, and mine in particular, more than I trust yours, and even if it turns out in the end that aliens visited here, it will not be proof that you drew conclusions more correctly, but that you were simply lucky, so that days may say that your bet Succeeded and maybe they won't say it but days have already said that the way you draw conclusions is wrong.
Michael, here is your mistake. It's not about believing in extraterrestrials, but understanding that they do exist. If you notice, ufologists do not deal with belief but with the analysis of information that comes to them regarding extraterrestrials and UFOs. The laws of science that exist on Earth do not necessarily have to exist on other planets.
I think this whole debate is unnecessary, it reminds me of Israel and the Palestinians - each one sticks to his position without looking to the sides and saying maybe I was wrong, maybe I missed one or two points... and it's a shame.
Time will tell who was right.
Meir:
You don't need me to slander Rabbi Akiva.
Believers (in any nonsense) like you do it well enough.
"Rech" for him does not represent "your kindred" but it is much narrower than what they are trying to sell us and it only includes "observant Jews".
This is the reason why it is forbidden to desecrate the Sabbath in order to save the life of a Gentile.
As in every subject, the ultra-Orthodox add here "hardness" and another "hardness" and so it also follows that the followers of another rabbi are not included in the term "rech" and everyone hates everyone.
I do demonstrate thinking limitations that you are free from. These limitations are the working of my thinking into reality - limitations which, as mentioned - do not bother you at all.
Regarding humor - you just don't understand how much you made me laugh.
To Michael
2 things in conclusion, because I have an important meeting with an industrialist (not a scientist).
A. We already mentioned that you have an understanding problem and a very narrow point of view... not only do you probably not know how to read, but you also don't understand the contexts.
B. You probably don't have a sense of humor either ..and you are so caught up in yourself and your self-importance that you are unable to analyze what was said to you. You are "wrapped up" by some anger that prevents you from taking advantage of advantages that you may have.
**I won't write to you what Rabbi Akiva said about that...you will just start slandering him. Because within the limits of thinking that you demonstrate, if I quote him on a simple sentence like "love your neighbor as yourself"... your analytical mind will still see this as support for homosexualism..
This is what happens when working with a one-sided head. And here is your big mistake. Instead of opening up, you defend yourself and instead of absorbing and satiating, you close down and become depleted.
Good day my friend
Meir:
What do I say and what will I say?
You are simply amazing.
A moment ago you were talking about Seti and the large amount of money he demands.
You did this after you said that money is not invested in the matter.
Now you say again that there is no research.
Consistency is not your forte.
I was not angry at the fact that a simple person makes some statement but that a simple person makes a statement that has no scientific backing.
A simple person is allowed to quote the results of studies done by scientists. It makes no sense for him to cite studies that were not done by scientists because such studies exist in every subject and with every possible conclusion (including denial of the holocaust).
It amazes me that there is someone who knows how to write and still has to explain such things to him.
The fact that Rabbi Akiva said some nonsense does not oblige me to accept this nonsense. In any case, he spoke about the poor and not about the ignorant.
Phew! Now I see the following in your same response: "Diversity and the wide distribution in fields of practice and the amount of those researchers from the academy, gives me the confidence to say what I said about research results" So suddenly there is research again? The contradictions probably don't really bother you.
In short - I was right about wasting time.
You say: "I claimed that ST is investigating incorrectly. I argued that ST is limited in its approach for all kinds of reasons"
And I say: So you said! If Rabbi Akiva is allowed to talk, then so are you.
I got really tired of the nonsense, but I still caught the things you wrote about the above two scientists.
They were wrong and their mistake has been proven and the fact that you don't remember it doesn't matter.
They conceived the idea of "cold fusion" even before them.
This is not at all what happens on the sun because there is a hot fusion that was carried out a long time ago and was called a hydrogen bomb. Cold fusion is a hydrogen bomb that "explodes" slowly and in a controlled manner.
In short - here too you demonstrate an extreme lack of understanding.
Scientists are human and they make mistakes too.
The two scientists you portrayed as victims were wrong.
I promise you that if they were right they would not have disappeared but on the contrary - they would have conquered the world.
It wasn't just that there was enthusiasm in the beginning.
The enthusiasm was only forgotten when they were proven wrong.
The advantage of science is in the scientific method that ultimately reveals the mistakes. That's what happened in this case and since they were ultimately scientists who were wrong they kept quiet after they realized they were wrong.
The UFOists don't even understand this and continue to assert their claims because they are not scientists who made a mistake - they are just people who made a mistake.
enough. I'm tired of the nonsense so now really bye
To Michael
My only "surprise" is your narrow-mindedness... your cynicism is obvious because
that in my words I don't know where you got the fact that the majority of scientists hold the opinion that extraterrestrials exist, if that's the case, then there should have been a study on this a long time ago. Someone wrote here that revealing extraterrestrial life is the greatest discovery we will have here on the planet. So..if so many scientists hold this how come there is no research?
Anyway, I'm sorry if I make you change your mind with every message I send. Keep some stability. For example, you convinced me from the beginning in all kinds of things.. and yet I don't emphasize it and I don't write it every time. There are things that, if you repeat them, they get a non-serious taste. That's how I feel about the depth of your conviction.
I am surprised every time when I find out how you divert things that have been said in a completely different direction and modify them and change them to your needs or the needs of your arguments. This is also a recognized "phenomenon" in the fields of scientific research..including misleading and biased publications in the scientific media written for personal needs...I'm sure you know this too. I did not claim that Seti has a lot of money..I said that a representative of "Mofon" said so.
For our eyes: imagine that at my age I am quite familiar with budgets and their management. This is not the place to teach me how to run a project, lol. The ST project is facing a problem because since a year ago there is the danger of being closed or stopped by the financiers.
This subject puts a big question mark on your assertion about trusting me or the "scientist". It turns out that you were angry at my statements as a simple person, not as an expert, not as a scientist. That is, you did not object in principle to the statement about the discovery and the future result (now after the words of the ST representative you even accept them), but because a simple layman like me stated it... and how do I even know how to check and investigate.
Well, there are several answers to this: the halachic answer - Rabbi Akiva already said: "Beware of the poor because from them will come the Torah" and I am not religious..
The practical answer - beyond that, I know the number of researchers from the academy who are engaged in the study of the clouds today. Not personally, but definitely dozens of articles and work in the field. The versatility and the wide distribution in fields of practice and the amount of those researchers from the academy, gives me the confidence to say what I said about research results. I claimed that ST is investigating incorrectly. I argued that ST is limited in its approach for all kinds of reasons. Pure research would have been conducted completely differently and must have gone through different stages of analysis and planning than what ST is doing. ST's approach corresponds to the thinking of the XNUMXs, when electromagnetically transmitted information developed by leaps and bounds. This direction is a small comma in the fabric of the materials available today for research. If you are really interested, I assume that in this field Hanan will be able to fill your head with data, materials, and ideas.
One last thing, I haven't known you here for a long time since this is the first time I'm writing here, so I don't know what your position and opinion is on the subject of the obim. I know Hanan even not personally and appreciate his work very much.
I intervened in the discussion here to support his position since I saw the meteorite/comet/levin/or whatever it was that fell to our little country a week ago. I saw him in Haifa Bay and it was very special.
I want to tell you about a case that happened about 10-15 years ago in scientific research.
It is clear to you that I am not a scientist or a researcher, but every time I encounter anew the problems of the eye and lack of support beyond the level of jealousy among scientists. In my opinion, this is one of the main reasons that prevent good research in this field, as you said, there are many companies that do think this way. This fear of being ridiculed in the barangay stops any positive action and prevents the whole world from learning what is really happening in the skies above us and in the oceans below us.
The story is about the scientific research in which physicists all over the world are trying to find an alternative source of energy for oil. One of their experiments, as I read, is an attempt to carry out on the surface of the earth the same process of hydrogen fusion (turning hydrogen into helium) that happens on the surface of the sun. In this process, a huge energy is released, a part of which we get to feel and see every day. If they knew how to control it, our energy problem would be solved. Of course it's called cold fusion under controlled conditions. The amount of money poured into these studies all over the world is simply imaginary!!!!!!!! The research is one of the most expensive and the costs are astronomical. But, the prize is also worth it... to get unlimited "clean" energy.
Well at that time (10-15 years) I don't remember the exact date two British scientists published that they were able to perform cold fusion under laboratory conditions for energy production. It broke the news in Britain and immediately the scientific establishment worldwide. The interesting point they immediately published is that the whole experiment is extremely simple, does not require more than a few pounds and is easily done.
Then before anyone even knew what was in the experiment, before an explanation of the experiment was published (they committed to publish full details within a few weeks), a huge movement of scientists from all over the world began who saw each other and said it couldn't be and it was all nonsense. They were killed in their Ivem. Within two days the scientists simply disappeared because the attacks they suffered were terrible. Their name was slandered, their whole past was tainted, all this before they presented anything from the experiment. This attack led by the heads of scientists from all over the world eliminated them. All of course in a non-scientific but emotional way... In the end after a few months after they had already disappeared from the scientific "arena" it turned out that the whole experiment was really nonsense.
The important thing is not the failed experiment, but the reaction of the academy. The scientific academy is a junta for everything... and if someone does succeed at zero cost in carrying out the cold hydrogen fusion under laboratory conditions for the purpose of creating clean and alternative energy, this means a huge loss of funds for the research industry... This means a loss of power and influence. Or then research and science were revealed in all their ugliness. Not the good of the ball and humanity but their personal good and status.
At this Hanan turned and asked how and how do you issue a confession to the press that what passed through the sky is a meteorite... without testing without proof, without cross-checking, but from the hip, from home, from the armchair with the mobile phone....
And I think he was right!
Regarding the story, I wanted to give you an example that even scientists make mistakes! Talking nonsense! Manipulating and more. Therefore, before you dismiss a person's opinion, think for a moment. Never say it can't happen..never treat something as impossible to exist or do. There are always surprises.
Good night
And one more thing for Meir:
To your question if I will accept the opinion of a scientist more easily than your opinion - the answer is: of course!
A scientist is a person who deals with science and science is the only way we have to gain new knowledge. He uses the scientific method, knows that claims need to be confirmed and subjected to peer review and is not satisfied with hand waving, TV shows and insults instead of logical and factual arguments. So what's the wonder that I would prefer his opinion to yours?
Meir:
You have finally convinced me that you do not understand anything.
After all, I have also said many times on the pages of this site that it is very likely that there are extraterrestrials and that the whole debate is whether they have visited here.
It is also not new for me that the head of the project deviated from the same opinion. In fact the vast majority of scientists hold this opinion.
When the head of the Seti project says that he will discover extraterrestrials, he does not mean a face-to-face meeting, but the discovery of radio signals, but you take every statement out of context - including your claim that the project costs a lot of money, even though in the previous comments you claimed that no money is spent on the issue.
For your information - the budget of each project and each activity is discussed over and over again and there are always times when you think about where the next budget will come from. This is not something unique to Seti. I don't know if you realize this but money that comes from a private source works exactly the same way as government money.
In short, as far as I'm concerned, you can continue to be surprised by the obvious and accept as a fait accompli the absurd. I really don't care.
Answer to Michael...
Today I saw your childish comment. To be clear, I do not need your "approval" to think what I think or to say it.
In any case, I don't like leaving you with a "hole in education" regarding a number of subjects we corresponded about...and you probably know what's worse than a lie, a half-truth. So in order to fill in some empty corners for you, I still decided to write a few more words, because surely there are more readers, and I don't want them to receive "wrong" information.
The ST project was facing closure for a long time... but it was decided to continue on the condition that other funding was found. Indeed, non-governmental funding was found, but voluntary bodies. These bodies also announced a few months ago that the funding might be stopped and is currently in discussions and looking for additional funding. In any case, the funding is big and expensive
Yesterday morning Larry King's TV show was broadcast on CNN and he talked about the most talked about space issue in the US at the moment in "Stephenville Texas". Without going into the details of the event, several people and many familiar "laggards" appeared in the interview. For example, one of the scientists leading the ST project!!!
Yes, yes, you will be surprised, but he appears and talks about obim on world television. And see what a surprise he declares with a committee that in his opinion there is life and extraterrestrials in the universe, but they have not yet arrived on Earth. As scientists do, he immediately takes credit and announces that they will find the proof of extraterrestrial life in about 10-12 years (pay close attention to how they get funding for 12 years).
However, later Larry King tried to ask what evidence existed regarding the incident, and then the representative of the "Mofon" association explained that for the first time they received the radar records as recorded in the entire area in question and after a "scientific" analysis, they showed the existence of a huge body above that area that did not go to the army Or to someone else. A "Mofon" representative was additionally requested by Larry King and asked what he had to say about the words of the scientist Masti who stated that the discovery of extraterrestrials would only be done by Seti... His answer was direct and he replied that they (Mofon) have no budget and almost no Ezera managed to prove the appearance of the UFO, while a body that is quite "loaded" with money does not prove/has proven anything to this day. Of course the MST scientist blushed live when the issue of effectiveness and wastage came up and tried to stutter that they are all supported by donations and some other nonsense like that, the essence of which is that the public doesn't pay. And that's your science.
Finally, don't take it personally. Apparently you really have to make an effort to get to the bottom of a matter and it might be a little "difficult" for you. That's why you said that I'm not worth the effort.... It's just hard for you in Kabbasha.
I, on the other hand, do not end my words to my interlocutor in such an aggressive manner, suddenly and somewhat angrily, as if we were fighting!? I do not address the person who writes in front of me and delete him from the list...as you wrote. I do not hint to my friend what I think about him and the depth of his words, I do not erupt in front of him and cancel my opponents' words and the level of their arguments...
The only thing I don't understand is your claim that I "guarantee" results if there is money for the research of the masses. I mean when I say that it's not serious…..
But when a ST representative whose profession is a radio astronomer, one of the project managers a renowned scientist commits that they will find extraterrestrial life within 10 years and is sure that it exists (that is, he commits to a result) The official commitment in Larry King's show against half the world !!!!. When such a well-known scientist says this (and in my opinion he knows what he is saying ..therefore I am also ready to commit)
So is it okay? Is the commitment to a result here reasonable? So will you accept it? So, yes, would you be willing to open your horizons and take a slightly wider view?
Good day to you
To the anonymous user:
Well? So continue the blasphemy?
Maybe consider what I said and see what's in it?
You don't do it because you can't.
Michael,
First of all, be aware of the vanity of vanity that comes out of your mouth and then speak "words of wisdom"...
dialect:
I have seen more than once that insults are the reasoning of those who have nothing to say.
You will be perfumed
Sharon,
"No power in the world could have hidden such information for so long."
I definitely agree with your words! , if you have noticed or followed programs on television, for example one of Larry King's recent broadcasts about Abami, you can see that the topic is indeed of interest to the public - a fact that it is discussed in a program with such a high rating.
And by the way, no one can come one day and make a statement, yes, there are UFOs, and they have been here for years. You have to be really naive to think that way.
Michael,
🙂 I feel a little sorry for you, I don't think a layman like you deserves to be discussed at all. It's obvious from your words that you simply have nothing to say on the subject, you know what they say, "a caveat to the wisdom of silence" and it's nice one hour earlier 😉
good week
dialect,
The various responses indicate a debate, differences in worldview and human psychology. An argument could have gone on about reincarnation, astrology, healing crystals, coffee reading, palmistry, and anything else you can think of. Just because there is an argument doesn't mean both sides are right.
I know the arguments about the obim, the truth is during my youth, about 15 years ago I believed in them, I admit. I don't believe anymore, haven't for many years. There is nothing interesting about them. The real science I'm interested in is more interesting, by far.
When I think there might be something there, I'll be interested again. In the meantime, nothing is renewed, dubious evidence is collected, nothing more.
No force in the world could have hidden such information for so long. Your conspiracy arguments are appallingly weak, quite ridiculous to be honest.
good week.
Sharon
Niv Green:
All I have to write now is that Hezbollah is probably paying your salary so that you fool the Israelis.
It will be based just as much as your words are based
Meir:
What you understood (the fact that SETI is being shut down, no one but you has yet understood and that's why Wikipedia doesn't know about it either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETI
This of course fits well with the fact that you know in advance what will be concluded at the end of some illusory study that requires a lot of resources according to your claim.
In short, prophetic ability, it turns out, is a very important ability in the field of the UFO project.
I don't know who you call UFO researchers. To me, the people for whom this title fits best are those who look for (and find) natural explanations for the phenomena that you and your friends like for UFOs.
I have a feeling that the one you call a UFO researcher is not a researcher at all and is content with collecting anecdotes and waving them around.
The truth is that at this moment I decided that you are not worth my effort.
You write a lot and I don't find anything true in your words, so bye.
To Sharon:
I do not pretend to come and give an overwhelming explanation. This is not an axiom.
I think, my friend, if everything was so clear, the various comments you read here on the site would not have been written in the first place.
The arguments I put forward did not come to establish a fact for you but to enlighten your eyes in a certain way of thinking. I know it's hard for you to accept, it's hard for a lot of people, but reality is not what you think.
PS - Astronomers also have a boss who pays their money and determines what will be said and revealed in the media and what will not (pressures of this and that...). Nobody wants to lose their job.
Good Day.
to Meir and Niv,
With these arguments of yours, you can say about any phenomenon as improbable as it may be that it is real and correct, but the scientific community, the elites, the governments, the northerners and anyone who is elected, ignores it for one reason or another.
These arguments are ridiculously weak. They supposedly explain everything but actually explain nothing. Why are Air Force personnel and politicians more relevant than scientists. So the pilots are a few kilometers above the surface of the earth, so? Does that bring them closer to the aliens? Does it give them some sort of advantage? Astronomers set their sights much further. I trust them more.
Sharon.
Sharon.
I prefer not to talk about politicians at all.
For the believers of the ABMs
In your opinion, the ABM case is "cases in the dark" and why?
This is related to the question why the aliens do not appear in public?
The answer of the ABM believers is that it is.... Top secret
The bad people in all the governments of the world are hiding information about aliens, they are also cooperating with the scientific establishment so that the information will not leak
This reminds me that during the Second Temple period they asked the rabbis why a righteous person is bad for him, and a wicked person is good for him. Answer Each of them will receive their reward in the next world, the righteous to heaven and the wicked to hell
The next world of the alien believers are the governments that hide information
The alien believers have another way to prove alienation
People who call themselves "alien researchers" collect testimonies from people who saw, felt, heard
Extraterrestrials through testimony, photos, voices, video
So I ask you those witnesses why they couldn't catch one of the aliens or at least a piece of alien technology?
Answer: The bad people from the administration (the ones with the headphones and ties) came and confiscated every alien remnant.
As for the evidence the people are admissible the answer is no!
Even if Einstein, the president of the USA, and the Pope were to testify to an alien experience, it is not considered proof.
Because a proof of this magnitude must be examined by the scientific establishment in depth (yes, yes, I already know what you will say conspiracy from a scientific establishment - government)
An example of what the aliens could do if they were here
The English (aliens) who came from England (a distant planet) to Tasmania (see an article in Science) didn't argue and didn't lead a journey and give, they stole, murdered, robbed the natives and didn't leave a remnant of them.
I would expect from the aliens who arrived (if they arrived so far there is no proof) that they would manage the eyes here due to the technological superiority and not the governments to manage them.
In conclusion
As Sharon cited that extraordinary evidence or extraordinary theories require extraordinary proofs.
The proof of the existence of aliens on earth
1. A suitor will be publicly presented to the public and examined by the scientific establishment
2. Alien technology will be presented to the public and will be tested by the scientific establishment
It is enough that one of the conditions is met (yes, Hanan, to present a suitor in public is like bringing material from a black hole, how do you know that?)
I don't accept foreigners who are cowards and whose governments control them.
To my dear Roy, of course if I surf the internet and look for information about the laser, I don't think I will find a link to aliens. Show me one invention that will be linked to extraterrestrial intervention?
After all, who is the layman who would not want to be credited with one invention or another?
Bottom line - money talks.
Alternative energy to oil exists and was published years ago by various inventors. The thing is that they did not get a platform to advertise and market it since it takes a bite out of the oil magnates' pie.
If you were an oil tycoon, would I be interested in competitors? It would have been easy for you to just buy the same patent and put it away so that it would not be a threat to your income.
I remember an article I read about a computer hacker who managed to break into the Pentagon's computers in order to reveal and show the world that the US has an alternative energy to exist just now, unfortunately for him, he was caught and received a life sentence.
In my humble opinion, the US military possesses major technologies, many times more upgraded than the existing ones, usable and visible today. But he prefers not to publicize them lest he have to explain to the public why he is forced to use oil when there is an alternative that is non-polluting and..economical of course!
You have senior people in the Air Force and in world politics who did not deny the existence of UFOs and extraterrestrials and even said openly that there was interaction with them, you can search on Google for articles, there are quite a few on the subject.
This is a subject that is more hidden than visible.
When those bodies entrusted with the issue decide that the time has come for the public to know - the world as you know it today will take a very serious leap forward.
And once again, it's about money. After all, why reveal and market advanced technologies to the public if you can gradually sell them innovations and inventions and make more money?!
Think about it.
To Roy
I'm sorry for your attitude. It must frustrate you that such things are said fearlessly by a layman like me. What to do that the scientists (since the ideas passed down from Jules Verne) have not developed many new systems. It is true that they opened a plane and a submarine and other things. But I claim that in the last 50 years you have not progressed at all. You improve the existing and that is a big and essential difference. More than that, I claim that precisely during that period of time research science received unbelievably huge budgets for the development and promotion of living systems and did not achieve its goal. It is true that he gave a more comfortable life and undoubtedly added countless comfortable and enjoyable means of living and subsistence. But, as an innovative concept you didn't add anything. This can also be seen in the military fields in which science is crucially combined with endless research... where the basic principles of the combat systems remained the same in the development of weapons. The weapon has undergone improvements, but at its core the principle remains the same. I will explain to you with an example. The firing of a rifle ball or a cannon shell remains as it has been for the last hundred years (and even before) the principle of exploding a propellant to create energetic pressure for launching one or another kinetic/energetic charge has not changed in essence. The newest weapon works on the same principle. We could expect new energy dispatch and routing systems within a hundred years..Nada!
As above in the armor systems and the planes, the principle of the tank is the same and the plane is the same, both are warfare systems that have not changed. It is true that they have been improved and undergone many updates to very high levels of comfort and effectiveness. But basically the principle of the tank has not changed at all. It is an armored and cumbersome vehicle for the protection of the crew with medium mobility and great firepower (a cannon also has not changed).
If science found other and alternative ways to create energy or transfer it from one place to another while changing one form or another, then there would be no more tanks but new and different energy launching systems, I would call it a new system and development.
You didn't give this either in the civilian or in the military, and with the amount of money that is poured and wasted in research all over the world, you don't meet the test of the result!!!
Which does not prevent you and others from demanding different requirements from the researchers of the clouds for example. Demand solid and indisputable evidence from them when they don't have a single promil particle of the means you have.
Humanity and science are similar to a first grade student in the school of life, who finished the first grade with honors and needs to continue to the higher grades. Second grade is already different in essence from first grade, where they progress and learn new material.. they don't just recycle and grind... but our student stays in first grade, he is comfortable here, he is the king of the class and he continues to decorate the classroom, clean, paint, maintain, replace lighting and transforms it The class is comfortable, beautiful and impressive...but still it's only first class. And we have many, many more classes to progress and a lot to learn in life.
The one who should raise us to second grade is science and scientific research, you are not doing this. Regarding your claims that the developments are not an improvement... perhaps this is where the problem lies. If you think that a jet plane is a novelty, for me it is still a system that produces energy by burning fossils.
Your fight is for the money! Today the power is in your hands, but you will have to give proof in the quick range that it is worth it for us to spend so much on you.
In conclusion, this is not rhetoric and it is not a debate, everyone has their own opinions and understandings. Personally, I really appreciate your response and your intention. I disagree with her but that is something else.
Shabbat Shalom
Meyer,
And you claim that I'm full?
You are playing games of rhetoric, or self-convincing here. You want inventions that are useful for improving life, and then you also want them to be new, and then you also limit us to the last fifty years. What more? Maybe you'll also say that they have to come from aliens and we're done? (Because a laser, of course, is not a sufficiently new and amazing invention for you. And neither is the Internet and the ability to manipulate the DNA of living beings)
Science contributed, in fact, all the concrete knowledge we have today, and don't try to limit it to fifty years or a hundred years. Research was funded with huge investments already during the discovery of polymers in the XNUMXs, which produced all the plastics we have today. All this nonsense of a fifty-year limit stems from cheap rhetoric, which is more serious than the distortion you accuse me of, after you have already distorted my words several times yourself.
By the way, do you even read what I write? "You haven't invented anything since Jules Verne." The lasers, the restriction enzymes, the antibiotics, the jet planes, the understanding of the operation of the cell, the television, the theory of games... all these are only -=improvement=- of the things that existed then?
If you really believe this, my discussion with you ends here, because your problem is much deeper than the UFO issue. It begins with the words "you did not invent", which are a kind of blind, wrong and inclusive accusation against an entire community, and ends with self-conviction and a lot of rhetoric. I have better things to do than argue with someone who believes wholeheartedly (unswayed by arguments and evidence) that all scientists are subject to government secrecy, that they lack minimal curiosity, and that they are all in constant fear of being discovered by aliens.
Shabbat Shalom to all of us,
Roy.
Roy Tsezana and Aryeh Seter.
1. Roy, please be more precise. I didn't write that the British government failed in its efforts to investigate the phenomenon of the aliens, don't change my words, this is a deception on your part. I wrote that it turned out that, contrary to her statements, she did research the subject of the obim. Regarding the results of the research, no one knows what they discovered, and as they denied and misled in the past, it is possible that they are misleading today about what they discovered. In any case, according to the published reports, it turns out that there are many very strange cases that they are unable to explain.
2. The scientific inventions you were able to present:
A. The laser was introduced already in 1960 (50 years remember) and its research began long before that. This is not a novelty
B. Introducing a lot of "powerful tools"...well really I have a powerful tool too. I simply asked about innovative and revolutionary systems that change all life here. It's that science has improved our lives beautifully. and what's new The really big funds were received for research precisely in the last 50 years. And from that we have nothing for the ball, for the planet.
But you know very well how to mock and deny precisely those researchers who, without means and contrary to the government's announcements, investigate things that the information is denied every day.
Of which you are not ashamed to "demand" results and proofs. If such a proof and a proven result were required from any scientific research in the world... science would be dead.
third. Sometimes I think the science of the imaginary book is over. Since Jules Verne who gave you direction and with his help you created an airplane, a missile, a submarine, you have not invented a single new system. You improved the existing one, you design "powerful tools" nothing more than that.
3. I don't know where the Seti project gets its listeners from. But if it's only from our galaxy, then even 70,000 years is a long time and comes (if it did) from civilizations that we don't know if they even exist today.
4. The open research of private individuals starting in the XNUMXs. It's not that time
The Faculty of Alien and Outer Space Sciences was opened... but then a number of people began to follow those inexplicable and incomprehensible phenomena and try to understand them. This research is increasing and indeed today there are more and more researchers, or those who call themselves researchers (and a very small part of them are from academia) who are trying to get to the bottom of the mystery and understand it. Some of them reached such and other conclusions that are not acceptable to the scientific establishment. Regarding the conclusions, anyone can adopt or not adopt. But as for the facts that have been discovered, it is difficult to understand how the scientific establishment rejects them. This is also where various conspiracy theories emerged.
5. I don't know and I don't pretend to touch on how such a study will be conducted at Seti's place. I can only assume that if there was a trend and if cooperation and mutual help were to develop between all of them, such that some of those human researchers would have sat down with the scientists with the aim of learning and understanding the existing mindsets and material and would have formulated goals, intermediate goals and a good global action plan/research plan.
Let's say that every country can send a representative (or years depending on the key) of such a UFO researcher to a world conference. There, a global delegation of the cloud researchers will be chosen. The same delegation will sit in a meeting with the heads of the academies for the purpose of delineating research programs... and so on. And yes you are right a small part of the research will be to check people's testimonies.
After all, we already agreed that you will do anything for money...
dialect,
Gut feelings usually come as a result of not knowing all the details. If you want to form a theory that the origin of the laser, for example, is from friends from other planets, why not test it?
As a first step, you can relatively easily look up the historical details of the invention of the laser online. You can read Theodore Mayman's first paper from 1960, where he describes how he created the first laser, using a synthetic ruby crystal created by Dr. Ralph Hutchison. You can read the details of the experiment, the patents that followed and how the inventions unfolded one after the other. Nowhere, as far as I know, will you find alien involvement on the subject.
Shabbat Shalom,
Roy.
As a surfer who had the opportunity to enter the site and read the article I can say, Hanan Sabat, this forum is not for you. You will get another shower of comments from people who will disagree with you even if they think you are right, so it will be a waste of time to try to mentally direct them to you. And by the way, in connection with whatRoey Tsezana wrote, I think that we owe most of the wonders of technology such as hard disks, lasers and computer processors to "guys" who came to visit us from other planets. I cannot explain how and why - but there is no doubt that man has come a long way in the twentieth century than in any other century and in my opinion, I emphasize, there was someone who guided him and helped him reach achievements that he would not have been able to understand without guidance. I think that throughout the history of man there was a factor that intervened whether for better or for worse and brought man to the current stage.
I think what our world would look like if it was less materialistic... or related to religion.
It is clear to me that there will be those who disagree with my opinion, the bottom line is that many people fear the unknown, the unknown and want a safe and familiar environment and there is no doubt that an encounter with extraterrestrials or the knowledge of their existence will bring about a change in the world we know today. In my opinion, the reason that the world has not yet been openly exposed to the subject of aliens in the media is because the heads of government and those above them have decided that it is too early for that...but that day will come and both science and religion will receive a severe blow that will change their entire way of thinking...
Everything has already been and everything will be.
Hanan, I have just one question.
How can you establish facts along the lines of "Alien aircraft operate by canceling gravity"?
You said this sentence (the phrasing is not that important... but this is the information you brought to the viewers) on the children's channel, when you were a guest there.
You have to understand why the whole thing seems dubious... We barely understand the basics of gravity in depth today, and it's an incredibly mysterious area of physics. Such a declaration on your part may say a lot about the frivolity that allows you to declare such things, which devalues your other things.
I mean, how can the power of the liver be eliminated? And can it be canceled? And what is the power of the liver? (particles? radiation? waves?)
How would you see the movement of an aircraft that eliminates the force of gravity? And does this apply to the aircraft itself or to its surroundings?
You must understand that this is simply an announcement that seems ridiculous in its recklessness...
And that means a lot.
To Meir Levin
You wrote about Seti that if he had discovered something it would have been of aliens from a million years ago. Well, the Seti project picks up signals from within the galaxy, which means a maximum of about seventy thousand light years.
You wrote that someone (Roi?) claimed that someone or someones studied the phenomenon of the clouds for seventy years and that it is more than a person's career. But what is claimed is not that someone has been researching for seventy years, but that there have been those who have been researching for seventy years.
Meyer,
After all, you yourself wrote that entire government departments were engaged in researching UFOs and trying to find out if they had a basis, and failed miserably. I am sure that these offices would have had adequate funding from the government, (which you claim university researchers did not have), since, well, they are themselves part of the government. So if they also failed, what will you complain about now?
We will continue by asking you to see how science has advanced humanity in the last fifty years. I will try to answer you without cynicism, but it is difficult, because you are currently using the most powerful medium invented to promote communication between people - the Internet. And some have already compared the internet era to a new era of existence for man.
What more?
The laser - makes it possible to perform analyses, to store and read information in previously unimaginable quantities, to design tools for any craft. Oh, and it is also based, among other things, on quantum mechanics - another scientific field that has progressed significantly. You can also include the hard disk here, which is based for the most part on an understanding of magnetic forces.
Want more?
Restriction enzymes, which enable the cutting of DNA, were invented in the seventies. They enabled the creation of transgenic bacteria that produce human insulin and other drugs, and gave us a powerful tool to conduct research that was not possible before.
What next?
Game theory made it possible to understand much better the interactions between all living things and their evolution. It gives us powerful tools to analyze sociological and biological phenomena.
And I brought here only the edge of the canvas. You are welcome to think for yourself about other things that have changed from the XNUMXs to today.
But let's leave this issue, because there is no debate at all that science has advanced humanity in the last fifty years.
It is quite clear that you have already formed your opinion, based on grievances and generalizations. I can agree with you that many studies are based on funds that come from vested interests. But there is also no doubt that other studies come from low-budget sources. I personally engaged in such research for several months, on a zero budget, with a supervisor who was 'crazy to talk'. Hanan himself tries all the time to say that there are scientists who deal with the issue of UFOs seriously. So where are their results? You don't need a huge budget to produce results. You only need facts on the ground to be based on.
Your claim is that if huge budgets were invested in the study of UFOs, then results would come. It is interesting to know what you would like the budgets to be spent on: talking to the people who claim to have seen UFOs? Scanning the sky for UFOs? Asteroid monitoring? After all, all of these have already been done, and are still being done today, and there is no need for huge budgets to do it. So what will be the avenues of research on UFOs, to which we will pour the billions of dollars? Such research has no beginning, no end, and as we have already seen, it also has no results.
Shabbat Shalom,
Roy.
To the last commenter who did not write his name. Probably from excitement.
A. I didn't claim there were aliens!
B. Personally, (and just for the sake of argument) I also tend to think like you that it is part
from the experiment of the powers
third. Your very message about the inability to admit error and error is what prevents
from you to open up to more options. Note that along with your message you
declares that no physical law will change. That is, you are aware of the problems of
The statement, but it forces you to sink in and act on it.
d. For the sake of argument only, I claim that if tomorrow a financial report were to be published
Olmi plans to invest 50 billion euros in 10 years in researching the phenomenon
After all, the obscenities would have made the whole issue legitimate and many "opposed".
"Ideological" would stand in line to get a role and a position of influence... and explain
How important it is to investigate the issue conspiracy or no conspiracy money is the motive
Collections
God. The whole correspondence and debate started with me supporting Hanan Sivet on his question,
Why was the event declared a meteor without a comprehensive examination? And look where we've come.
and. My name is Meir Levin, what is your name?
Oh, you are so wrong, Meir, my friend.
I don't know any field - religious, pseudoscientific or other with a willingness to change a way of thinking and go through a revolution if necessary, I'm talking at the level of science about its various fields and not about specific researchers who are not willing to admit that their life's effort, their theories, are no longer relevant, some of them are fair enough Admit they were wrong. Science as a way of thinking is immune to this and is apt to go through revolutions. The meaning of beings from another planet will not change biology or physics or any other field as such, it will only expand the canvas. The way we perceive ourselves may change, but the laws that science has painstakingly formulated will be in effect. These are arguments that stem from frustration, they are baseless.
Science is also advanced by such outsider professors, the scientists are not a homogenous community, while there were those who thought there was something with these aliens, they were researchers.
I claim (just for the sake of argument) that the aliens you speak of are all part of experiments conducted by a superpower and not aliens. You will never be able to convince the world that it is not. I will argue that there is a conspiracy, deception and all the same rhetoric you employ.
This is an argument that is equal to yours and also more reasonable by the way. Your claims are flawed in logic throughout.
To the beloved Shepherd
I disagree with everything you wrote mainly because you are full of shit. There is no possibility to carry out research when the institutions that manage the research systems and are supported by governmental authorities do not want it. And this is true not only for Abim.
But referring to your men, I can only tell you that they are full of mistakes. serious mistakes. There is no one who has invested 70 years of his time in research. Do the math yourself and see how old he is, assuming he started at least at the age of 18... There is none.
And also that "unknown" researcher who, let's say, devoted 70 years of his time, where did he do this and by what means? Did he have any mentor or advisor to help him? Were there places where he could have analyzed his research and continued in different directions?
If you are from the field of science you know what I am talking about. Indeed, there are many people who are, by their very interest, "obscurists". Since they invested many years in this.
You ignore the objective difficulty of research when no body cooperates and even inhibits or denies. The British government, for example, denied conducting research and surveillance on aliens until a few years ago because, according to them, there was no need for it. Imagine a British researcher looking for a grant from the institution where he is in order to conduct research on what the government claims does not exist and is not needed. Months ago the British government agreed to reveal all the investigations they conducted for more than 50 years...surprise, wonder, suddenly it turned out that entire ministries were involved in this. The French also announced the release of documents that "never existed".
I understand your scientific approach and I do not deny it. But it is precisely from you as scientists that I would demand more openness, more understanding and a real demand for free research. You know the constraints and know very well that it won't work. That's why the alleged claims that they didn't do or didn't prove anything are not serious. They just didn't try
On the other hand, I would be happy if you would wait for me and tell me what fundamental scientific achievements we have in physics in the last 50 years of research that have had a decisive impact on our lives. For example, has a new type of energy production been invented beyond the combustion engines, beyond the burning of fossils? You talk all the time about four basic forces known to us in nature. Nice, how did you harness them to the service of humanity beyond the fire engines? (Everything was invented a long time ago, including nuclear power generation)
Don't forget Roy, that you (not you personally, to science as a big front)
You received for your consumption the most funds for the exploitation of your abilities during those fifty years. Please do a check on how much money science has wasted (in all the institutions in all the researches in all the universities all over the world in all the years)... and what we got from it is fundamentally different from fifty years ago. What an innovative life system you have introduced for the benefit of the inhabitants of the globe. A system that is fundamentally different from what was before.
It doesn't seem that science and research have made revolutions here in recent years.. they are more trying to maintain their status and... their cash flows.
And again science has a much more important role, science and scientific research is supposed to move humanity forward. Part of that is opening up and keeping an open mind. The recipe for failure is to continue to maintain what was, not to take risks, not to jump, not to make a change, not to change a proven concept... it won't last much longer. It's a shame
You wrote that the scientific community is diverse without specific leadership and with many personal ambitions to be "the next thing". You all have one consensus, you depend on money for research. And it is receiving the money that prevents "free research".
A friend of my daughter made a post in Switzerland. The budget for research at the University of Zurich came from a pharmaceutical company that was looking for a way to cheapen drug production. So she did and succeeded. It's not what she hoped for, but there was the money. Here is an example of free research.
Meyer,
There are already today quite a few UFO researchers, who have invested all their time in the field for 70 years. All this time, they have not been able to find any evidence that was strong enough to be published under criticism. As Hanan says himself, all types of science advance with the times. Why, So, even though there were and still are UFO researchers, they failed to promote this science and provide evidence of its plausibility?
Academic freedom, by the way, was enough to break through in every possible field of science. Evolution, quantum mechanics, origin of life and much more. Every time there was a breakthrough like this, there was resentment from the old scientists in the field, but within a few years the new theory became the norm as more and more scientists conducted experiments and became convinced of its correctness.
In short, breakthroughs are definitely possible from academic freedom. A researcher who would like to invest his time and his laboratory's money in the idea of aliens is perfectly capable of doing so. Although he will gain a bad reputation among his friends, there is a good reason for that: in the last seventy years, everyone who has tried to look for aliens has failed. But then again, he's definitely capable of it. And people have already done it. And the results? Nada
And regarding your last claim that the science community will be humiliated if the aliens are discovered...
You are so, so wrong. I can't find the words at all. I am part of the science community, and the enthusiasm with which real evidence of the existence of aliens will be received will be enormous. amazing It will wash all the laboratories in the world with its power. Scientists from all over the world will flock and beg to investigate this topic, which can shed light on so many topics in science.
If you want to argue to us that the entire scientific community, as one body, refuses to investigate the UFOs in order not to show how wrong it was by not investigating them, you simply do not know the scientific community. There is no consensus and no leaders and leaders for the scientific community. Everyone wants to find out the next great discovery. Each researcher works on his own, and is imbued with ambition to produce results that have never been produced before. There is no way to stop the discoveries, as Hanan himself said. That is why research has already been done on the subject of UFOs, without serious results. And I will repeat again: without results for seventy years, while all other fields of science have proven themselves many times.
So sorry to disappoint - there is no conspiracy here. All that exists is a pseudo-scientific psychological and sociological phenomenon, which no one has been able to prove has any basis in reality.
Shabbat Shalom to all of us,
Roy.
To Sharon and Michael.. together and separately
There is no intention here on my part to provoke debates about knowledge and essences. However, Nan was totally resentful of the meteorite assertion without testing and based on an assumption. This is where it all started. In his opinion and in my opinion, there was room to find out well before making statements.
For our purposes:
Michael:
The STi project was (I understand that they are closing) a project directed by astronomers and not by nebula researchers. Note, it was not the nebula researchers who determined the research strategy and its goal, but astronomers based on the technological capabilities they had at the time. The capabilities were so low that they asked all computer owners in the world to join and allocate personal computer time from their homes for the purpose of the research. Of course a certain level of computer was required. The basic concept was foolish in my opinion and looking for a needle in a haystack is easier and has more chances than the spectrum scan they did.... This is not serious and was definitely a waste .
Even if it were discovered which letter had its origin from millions of years ago, there is no possibility of knowing what is with them today.
The ST project gave the interested public the feeling as if they were doing something new, but instead of going to the materials that were here and starting from them, they went without a definite goal in the direction the astronomers continued. It's like going into a casino in Las Vegas to a machine with a $25,000,000 prize and trying to win with one hit of $5. Attitude About one in a trillion wins.
Academic freedom... really, academic freedom exists within the "acceptable" framework and as long as the topic of UFO research is not acceptable, it is nothing more than empty words. Show me one professor who will spend a poor dollar on UFO research, when all the other professors in the faculty are buzzing in his ear and want the money For their "real studies" of course. And then you expect in the name of academic freedom that someone will actually dare to enter the field... by the way, my eldest daughter is now doing a PhD in organic chemistry at the Technion and will finish in another year, to tell you how it works or do you know yourself???
So don't write academic leave without a basis. To be clear, I have no objections to anyone who does not study obim, but deals in his field in a serious and in-depth way, biology, physics, mathematics, and all other scientific fields. Each and his field. Just don't hide behind mental templates...
Sharon:
The paper is short of convincing, but some points for thought. First you said you would love to discover life in the universe. I claim that you clearly do not understand the meaning of your statement. Not that you don't mean her, certainly you would be happy, but you don't understand the world change that will be caused by her.
This upheaval first of all concerns the entire science community!!! Because the meaning is that all the signs were and they were ignored... so what did you spend trillions of dollars on over the years (let's say the last 50 years of research) what did you waste the money of this planet on when you should have led us to other meetings. That is, everything you did or most of it is ineffective and there was another way to investigate and other and important things that are more correct, more advanced, more effective and you neglected them out of ignorance. Science today has a clear interest in suspending any Abrahamist research, if only for the reason that it will still accidentally succeed.
If there is no choice, science in the future will join the study of the clouds and will try to reveal them little by little in stages so that it can appropriate it for itself...
If life is indeed discovered, and new theories emerge and new teachings are written, then a large part of the leaders of science will also become obsolete one day and will not be needed, they will be useless. I am not going into the meaning of changing economic systems due to global technological change at all. No economic body wants this.. It is a great and real threat to the scientific community, even if it is not explicitly stated, it is clearly in front of the eyes of the leaders of that community.
You can go on and on...all in all I wanted to support Hanan's position.
Have a good Shabbat
Hello Meir,
First, basic scientific research does not necessarily require huge sums.
The claim that there are visits by intelligent beings can be confirmed without a lot of research budgets, this is not a question of money but of facts, and there are currently none.
Secondly, she gives, why is there no investment in extraterrestrial research? After all, this is a scientific discovery of the first order, one should not suffer from a tendency to excess dramatization in order to describe the meaning of a visit of an intelligent being to the earth.
Think what a hotbed of scientific discoveries from all fields of science the field contains, for biologists, physicists, social scientists, technologists, engineers, philosophers. What will the theologians say?
This question of extraterrestrials, if they thought it was real or could with high probability be so (the answer is yes or no, the probability is not 50% to 50% far from that) would have been examined by the best researchers and the best budgets, the order of priorities in such a case would have been clearly inclined In favor of extraterrestrials over elementary particles. You come and claim that there is a potential here for scientific information of the most important in history that is being ignored. I was not convinced.
No one allocates money to the study of teacups that revolve around the moon (according to the parable of the philosopher Bernard Russell), why? Or to the study of fairies? Or unicorns? Or tearful pictures of Elvis Presley? Why?
Because there is no factual basis, not even a shaky basis for these claims.
Psychologists can publish articles on what the followers of the heathen have to say. Biologists and physicists have nothing to say about aliens (unfortunately, I would be happy to know that there is other life in the universe, I tend to believe that life is common in the universe, but I am convinced that intelligent life has never visited here (the truth is right))
Meir:
Interesting, by the way, you already know the conclusions that in order to reach them requires such an investment-intensive research as you describe.
Meir:
Your words are simply not true and enormous efforts and funds, of which the SETI project is only one, are invested in trying to discover even a hint of evidence of intelligent life outside the earth.
Besides that, there is something called academic freedom and researchers have a lot of freedom and flexibility in the way the funds intended for research are managed.
In short - when a wrong assumption is made, it is easy to "prove" a wrong conclusion as well.
to Sharon
By and large, you are right in your claim to receive scientific support and conclusive proof, but you are misleading since it is clear to you that Hanan is not fighting against you with equal tools, on the contrary, he and a member of his flock are fighting with their hands tied behind their backs.
And let me explain.
The name of the one and only game and also in science is money that funds research!!!!!
Your demand that what is to be proven requires dozens of physics professors scattered around the world, who will work in dozens of laboratories, with hundreds of doctors associated with research and with thousands of doctoral students and master's degree students (only here abroad it is different). This is possible and at the same time, for the development of special faculties in the technological institutions that will lead to the same proof you are looking for .
But there is no such thing today and no one directs money to it and not a single donor wants to contribute to it. Therefore it is impossible to bring you the proof as you demanded and you know it.
On the other hand, there are billions of euros and dollars for the development of the accelerator in Switzerland which will contribute nothing at the moment to the well-being of life on the globe, maybe and just maybe it will prove the existence of certain particles of mass...and maybe it won't...but no one will claim that the theory is stupid and incorrect, even if billions of euros are wasted ..but it's in terms of image...and that has money.
If only 5% of the money spent and spent on that accelerator was invested in Abrahamist research, we would reach results that would surprise you too.
Hanan,
As an addition to Michael's correct words, physics is not a collection of claims/evidences/wishes of people no matter how good they are. Physics is a science based on observation, theory, the position of the data for the examination of experts and the like.
You have not convinced me about the claim that the aliens are in fact high technology of human power, I will continue to strongly argue that the administration throughout the 20th century hides the real data from the public eye, it has the ability to do so and if it wishes to do so the life time of any technology will be extended beyond those 25 years that you defined, even much beyond that, it is about something worth protecting, one that does not fit the rule of thumb you set. This is the reason why I suppose you claim that the masses are not public domain. Besides, the fact that the Abami have been here for a hundred years (what happened before that? Ah, there were fairies and demons and apparitions of saints, I forgot), according to you, it proves one of two things: either it is a collection of nonsense or it is a governmental/military/scientific conspiracy against this defining event. 100 years out of the general consciousness of humanity plays against you and not for your good.
There are stories about people with special abilities, hordes of foolish believers clinging to every word, they are ready to swear that they did this and that, miracles, healing, sensational revelations about the future. Some of the witnesses are respectable people, even certain scientists. I would like to receive real relevant proof from them, something that contains real prediction, real ability without making excuses and bluffing. All those celebrities who will please tell me where the kidnapped soldiers are, what happened to them, who will perform a cure under the strict rules of the FDA with appropriate reviews, who will guess the numbers in tomorrow's lottery. Once they see something real. I find a parallel in what I talked about in this paragraph about your belief about extraterrestrials. Your claim is unusual, it is not within the scope of scientific knowledge as of today, the majority of scientists do not believe in the visits that you are so eager to talk about. Any attempt by you and your friends to describe the phenomenon of aliens as if it is the mainstream of science is throwing coarse sand in the eyes of He who is not knowledgeable.
In the end, these are marginal testimonies and findings that are marginal from the point of view of the scientific community, I did not receive an answer from you to a simple question - why?
Hanan:
Another puzzlement regarding your answer to Sharon is this:
You claim that all military technology (which there are many reasons and real conspiracies to hide!) eventually (after 25 years) comes to public knowledge.
On the other hand, you claim that the discovery of the aliens that there is (but really is no!) reason to hide does not become accepted knowledge after much longer periods (you say 70 and I say 10,000 years).
interesting!
Hanan:
In relation to your response to Sharon: It is not true that blacks are an extraordinary claim because on the contrary - their existence is a necessary result of the laws of nature that we are familiar with and have already received atalpies of proof. Their existence is also proven by what is happening around them which again - matches the predictions of our models. On the contrary - the claim that blacks do not exist was seen as an extraordinary claim.
With the aliens the situation is completely different.
However - I too would be content, at least in the first stage, with some - not unusual - proof of alien visits on Earth.
The problem is that there is not!
Hanan:
And when did I claim that you claimed it was a UFO?
On the contrary - since you did not claim it - I am the one who claimed it.
A UFO - by definition - is an unidentified object and as I said the discussion here proves - this object is unidentified.
I'm just repeating and asserting that there is a huge distance between the non-recognition of an object and its being populated by a hybrid's family members - something you tend to do in other cases.
Michael - since when did I claim that it was a UFO??? I claim that as I understood based on information that reached us, it is not a meteor. I did not say that it was a UFO. This is definitely not what I call a UFO. Why try and link to me arguments invented by Channel 2 and not by me and not by any of the witnesses (at least those whose testimonies reached us)? I hope you are not claiming that these were lasers from a wedding, as Kol-Israel claimed.
My argument was simple - why is the testimony of a reliable witness, however reliable, in order to determine with certainty that it is a meteor and nothing else, compared to the testimony given about UFOs by highly reliable witnesses and professionals, and whose testimony is treated with disdain?
In the above case there is no documentation, there is no photography, there is nothing except for the testimonies, most of which contradict the meteor assumption and point more to a missile or something similar. That's all. Why is everything "kosher" this time???
Sharon - I certainly know what Sagan claimed. And I claim that the phenomenon of the giants needs no more proof than any other unexplained phenomenon and any assumption that needs to be scientifically proven. No exceptional proof is needed, since the argument is not exceptional. I could equally say that until they bring and present material taken from a black hole or photograph it somehow, there will be no proof of their existence since this is an extraordinary argument (of course this also applies to quark stars, which we have heard about recently or to almost any topic in modern physics, which is mostly entirely theoretical ).
Regarding the argument that it is possible that it is a secret technology, in short he says this: every secret technology becomes contemporary technology within a period of 20-25 years. The phenomenon of UFOs in terms of their shapes and maneuvering capabilities has been known for more than 70 years and as of today, we are not aware of any current tools capable of performing such maneuvers or moving in such a manner. A similar earthly technology should have long been in the public domain.
In addition, of course, we also rely on those who dealt with the issue directly and encountered UFOs - astronauts, pilots, engineers, military personnel and government personnel. From these testimonies (we are talking about tens of thousands of testimonies, physical findings and photographs), there is not a single piece of evidence that links the UFO phenomenon to the vessel International flight, excluding those cases where it was proven that these were experimental instruments of this and that. In those cases where the objects were finally described as UFOs, the more that was known about them and the more studies were done on them, the more they were classified as unknown. If you look at the "Blue Book", you will see that all the cases that were described as unknown, there is a lot of information about them, compared to the cases that are likely The more information there was about various events, the more it became clear that they had no explanation.
Hanan Sabat
http://WWW.EURA.ORG.IL
Wow!
I see that nothing here changes and if enough time has passed then claims that have not been tested and not approved after peer review become legitimate again.
All that is needed is to summarize them in some book.
Why don't we actually add the current UFO to the collection? After all, it is exactly a UFO according to the definition because it is an object that all those speaking here do not know how to identify with certainty, so why not claim that it is extraterrestrials and that's enough?
to flatter,
In the recent past, we had a dialogue on the site about the phenomenon of clouds.
The late Carl Sagan used to say that extraordinary evidences or extraordinary theories require extraordinary proofs, the followers of the Abaim do not have such evidences and if there are such and we do not refer to them then as I wrote before this is the most serious scientific failure in history.
It is strange that you do not claim that the object, whatever its identity, is of Hebrew origin. There is no reason not to claim it in your opinion.
If there is a problem in describing the events as a flower crow why is this knowledge not the property of the general public. By the way, I can claim that the aliens you describe and all those testimonies are indeed reliable, but their origin is not extraterrestrial but a top secret technology that exists for that matter in the hands of the Americans, this is a claim that does not fall short of any claim you make regarding the aliens. I would love to hear an explanation. An explanation like the one I proposed would not shock the scientific community that studies amino acid residues far, far away from here to get a faint clue to the fascinating question of whether we are alone in the universe?
No Septem, not that the testimonies are not accepted due to a problem of authenticity, but that they prefer not to refer to them - simply put.
For example, NASA stopped referring to all those cases where it is clear that unusual events were photographed and not just fragments (for example, the photo of Dr. Oren Swearingen from 2005). They just prefer not to comment at all.
And regarding witnesses to religious revelations, we are not interested in the faith, nor the personal feeling or opinion. What is different about the testimonies we examine, these are not casual eyewitness testimonies (which of course are admissible in courts), but we focus on the following type of testimonies:
A. Testimonies of reliable witnesses and professionals.
B. Evidence documented by parties that cannot be suspected of deliberate forgery: such as NASA, pilots, or various scientific expeditions.
third. Multiple testimonies recorded on cameras.
When you examine each case individually, you really discover the problem - that there is a serious problem with the attempts to describe the events as a flower crow or visions or a natural phenomenon.
Just as a curiosity, I will add that of all the cases that remained unsolved in the "Blue Book" project, for example, it was precisely their events that had more evidence and more findings, especially those investigated by the American Air Force, that remained unsolved... This alone raises questions about them.
May I direct your attention to Stanton Friedman's new book, "Flying Saucers and Science", which deals with exactly this point - a summary of the scientific studies conducted in the field.
Hanan Sabat
http://WWW.EURA.ORG.IL
If all these testimonies are not accepted, their authenticity is probably lacking...
And their main problem is that there are almost identical testimonies regarding the number of people who witnessed the apparition of Mary, people on whom stigmata were discovered, and here and there.
When you examine each case individually, meticulously, you can locate the problem.
Septem - please receive updates:
1. There are over 5000 physical findings in the hands of citizens, directly related to UFOs (including in Israel). Some of them are displayed in museums.
And for another question, do you expect the museum to display the corpse of an extraterrestrial or an Israeli atomic bomb for example, if everyone denies their existence???
Do you expect that the Smithsonian museum will present a model of the "Aurora" plane, which has been documented all over the world (including in Israel) and the US denies its existence???
2. There is no connection between what you describe as kidnapping and the cases I am talking about. I am referring to cases in which there were kidnappings of several people, cases in which the people were discovered with unidentified substances on their bodies or burns caused by radiation, cases in which there were multiple witnesses to the incident and cases in which implants were found in people's bodies. I am not referring to experiences of sleep paralysis.
3. Are NASA astronauts, the Canadian Minister of Defense, flight engineers, senior officers and senior scientists trustworthy witnesses in your eyes? Why do you accept their words as light and sound on every subject and not on the subject of UFOs?
And as for the testimony this time about the meteor, I can easily say that it was the light of Jupiter or the mass hysteria that arose after they activated lasers at a wedding (if based on Kol Yishal)... Why should I rule out the possibility that this is an attempted attack of some kind (possibly originating in Lebanon) and accept the meteorite argument , when the signs point to a very high probability that it is not a meteorite?
and N.B. - I have a fear of heights... therefore, I prefer to stay on the ground and not hover... for some reason the ATV experience in the sky seems to me to be something that is better watched from a safe distance...
Hanan Sabat
http://WWW.EURA.ORG.IL
His testimony should certainly be doubted. However, it is much easier not to rule it out (compared, for example, to the testimonies of UFO researchers), since meteorites are displayed in museums.
Apart from that, UFO research (of the extraterrestrial kind, at least) is largely controversial. There are also many problems with reporting UFOs or extraterrestrial abductions, for example. Mainly, in my opinion, because of the similarity of the descriptions of the abductions (for example) to descriptions of visits by demons, or any religious experiences. Things that turn out to be culture dependent. (Mainly, the amazing similarity between the image of the extraterrestrials in the cinema at the time, and their aircraft, and the testimonies that come afterwards that change according to the image).
What's more, when a person sees a UFO, it's usually just something they don't know (but known to other people, for example, those involved in the field of weather forecasting balloons. Or the members of Project Mogul). And it's quite difficult to trust people's memory. (Simply because which is so flexible and changes according to multitudes of factors).
I actually had a case not long ago when I was walking in a kibbutz and I saw what seemed to me to be an aircraft with a rather strange shape and a very strange structure of lights... moving at a not high speed. I immediately remembered you, Hanan.
Only later, sitting at home and trying to sketch the light points and silhouette of the object, I realized that it was probably a "flying ATV".
(And flying in one is highly recommended! Abnormal fun).
Precisely because I also know Dr. Fatal (although I did not contact him personally), it is very strange to me that a scientist who trusts scientific research, suddenly makes assertions based on eyewitness testimony alone and emphasizes the reliability of the main witness and perhaps several other testimonies.
The truth - to me it reminded me of the UFO researchers, who are attacked and forced to defend themselves, every time they claim reliable testimony - isn't that the case? Why is the testimony of Dr. Fatal's reliable witness allowed, the testimony of reliable witnesses testifying in Nablus and the Arabs regarding the UFO phenomenon for example?
If there are doubts, I find no reason why Dr. Fattal continued to be interviewed at every opportunity to present meteor remains and old videos of meteors? Why were the doubts not presented (except for London and Kischernbaum, who dared to raise these arguments)?
I must admit that the way in which this event was handled and presented to the public, interests me no less, and perhaps even more, than the bone that was burned last night...
Hanan Sabat
http://WWW.EURA.ORG.IL
I know Yigal Fatal and as you can read I also interviewed him myself, he was not instructed by anyone to claim it was a meteor. He was convinced of this, the doubts, if any, arose later.
Thank you Meir.
We also checked with the Air Force and an astronomer, and in addition we received a flood of testimonies from all over the country.
It's a shame that there is currently no photographic record of this bone. The behavior was not typical of a meteor and this is exactly what motivated us to look for other options (especially when I heard on the 21:00 news in the Voice of Israel that these were lasers from a wedding!!!).
Another call came directly from the Givatayim Observatory, which hastened to release a message that was interpreted by the media as conclusive proof that it was a meteor. The media has shown movies of meteors and old meteor fragments and that is exactly what bothers me. Why publish information to the public as final proof, when this is only a hypothesis (unless someone was instructed to tell the media that it was a meteor and thus cover up a different event).
At least you can't say that it's boring in the Middle East...
Hanan Sabat
http://WWW.EURA.ORG.IL
Hanan Shalom
It really is more appropriate from the direction of Hezbollah. In a suitable interpretation in terms of directions. I gave a detail in the forum on how it is possible to get a direction with Vala maps and this is in an appropriate interpretation.
Someone wrote on Ynet yesterday that he checked with "friends" in the HA and they said that they had great pressure and panic and that serious people were kicked out of the house. He did not give any more information.
I tell you again, as I wrote in the forum, this was no ordinary meteor! In a normal meteor there are also sparks and burning debris, here there was none, it was clean, bright and sharp. It was simply amazing. If you have contact with someone on the Jordanian side, see if they recognized it there as well, so that they can give an indication of the height in question.
Sorry Meir - I was wrong about the direction of the satellites...
Hanan
Thanks Abby for the comments.
And a question for Meir - the direction northeast -> southwest is indeed suitable for satellites.
Second, I would not outright rule out a missile test of ours or something launched at us from the direction of Hezbollah.
Interestingly, Shiron London and Moti Kirschenbaum emphatically claimed on News 10 that it was not a meteor and linked the event to the urgent and secret cabinet meeting that was convened in haste and to the Shihab missiles.
Hanan Sabat
http://WWW.EURA.ORG.IL
To my father Blizovsky
To your question on the 2 topics. Time and direction.
I saw this celestial gram clearly yesterday at exactly 20:15 PM.
I was in the middle of a pleasant evening walk on the boardwalk at Kiryat Yam/Kiryat Haim beach in Haifa Bay.
The direction was from north/northeast to south/southwest.
In the check I made on the maps and the satellite on Google, it could never have come from the direction of Iran, not even from Tiberiz which is the most western. unless they have
Agreement with the Turks. In the possibility that it was indeed an Iranian missile fired from Iran…..then it has the ability to maneuver and that is already alarming.
To my father Blizovsky
I saw this heavenly gram yesterday at exactly 20:15.
I was in the middle of a pleasant evening walk on the boardwalk at Kiryat Yam Beach/
In short, even in our house there is a debate about what it was. Here is the important information:-
My mother-in-law, who will be distinguished for a long life, says that it was an Iranian test of the Shayab 3 and they wanted to see if we would shoot it down with an arrow missile, but the Americans wouldn't let us shoot it down because it was enough for them that the dollar fell, because America decides everything.
But Malka, the Persian mother of my daughter-in-law, says it's not like that at all and it was definitely a Yemeni missile, but maybe she's saying that because her husband is Yemeni.
My wife, who is still fascinated by the solar eclipse in Antalya, says that maybe it could be remains left after the solar eclipse?.
But what is most important is what my granddaughter, Lia, (two years old), says!
She says that in general what is important is that she is a mixture of Yemen, Turkey, Bulgaria, and Russia, and in general, in general, in general, she does not care that she also has Persian genes!
So everyone be healthy
with a smile
Sabdarmish Yehuda
It's amazing that a meteor weighing only a pound or two creates such a significant visual effect. It's scary to think what we would see if it weighed 10 kg or 100 kg...
Gillian and Hanan, I don't rule it out outright.
The question is whether there was a correlation in time, i.e. whether the object was launched from Iran around the time when the meteor was observed in Israel. I would appreciate it if someone could get this figure.
Please note that the observer who is considered reliable in my eyes, a member of the meteor division of the Astronomical Society, himself believes that this may be an artificial object that burned up in the atmosphere, but it is in the opposite direction to what is customary in satellites.
There are two details left to check
A. the hour
B. The launch direction.
If these two are compatible, it will be possible to accept this assumption with a high probability.
Some small mistakes and questions:
1. Has anyone documented and photographed the bone? For some reason, the information we received claimed that the object was not recorded at all, and it is hypothesized that it is a meteorite. If it is a documentation that was made (photograph or observation), why were the photographs not published, and in the morning news continued to use old meteorite photographs???
2. From following the news broadcasts last night, the following picture came up:
News 21:00 - The object has not been identified, and it is probably lasers from a wedding (yes, yes, you heard correctly - lasers).
Hachatat 22:00 - this is a meteorite (although, as far as we know, it was not recorded in a photograph and was not recorded at the observatory in Givatayim. If it was recorded, that's one thing, if not - on what basis did they determine that it was a meteorite?).
News 23:00 - It is possible that it is the remains of a satellite.
Midnight News - Meteorite.
From all the above presentation and from an examination we conducted with the evidence that reached us last night (including an examination by the Air Force and with another astronomer), we speculate that it was not a meteorite. There is a higher probability that it was some kind of missile or a military object.
Hanan Sabat
http://WWW.EURA.ORG.IL
And as Gillian mentioned above, below is a piece of information that supports this argument, in case the crater that opened the meteorite, swallowed the rest of the data and information that arrived:
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/09/iran.missiles/
We saw him
He was just beautiful
We thought it was a falling star and asked for a wish
that came true 🙂
A meteorite named Shihab.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/09/iran.missiles/
to Septem
If you actually want to see, there are Pzmer'im and Kasami in the south, it looks more or less the same.
Let's just smile
Happy Tobium Day and let's just smile!
Sabdarmish Yehuda
It's such a shame I didn't see it...
Thanks for the news.
Hebrew is written in the opposite direction, so the Israeli satellites also move in the opposite direction.
Anyone who believes in superstitions, this is the time to pray