A consortium of engineers from academia and people from industrial companies in Japan plan to build a space elevator that will significantly reduce the costs of getting into orbit around the Earth
A consortium of engineers from academia and people from industrial companies in Japan are planning to build a space elevator that will significantly reduce the costs of getting into orbit around the Earth.
The Japan Space Elevator Association published a plan for the construction of the building, the price of which may start at 9 billion dollars. The group believes that the project will cause a revolution in satellite launch costs and will make production in orbit around the Earth logical from the economic point of view. "Just as anyone can jump abroad, we can ride an elevator into space," said Soichi Ono, chairman of the Japan Space Elevator Association, in an interview with the media.
According to the plan, carbon nanotubes will be used that will be connected to a fixed platform in orbit and will extend to a base station on Earth. This would require the production of carbon nanotubes 4 times stronger than those produced today, but the strength of such materials has increased several hundredfold in the past five years. Elevators connected to the tubes will be able to operate using electrical energy, which will significantly reduce the amount of transportation of materials to the track.
Manufacturing in space has many advantages over manufacturing on Earth, not to mention the vast amount of solar energy available. NASA has already proven that it is easy to grow perfect crystals in zero gravity, and other exotic materials that can be produced more easily under these conditions.
In addition, the low cost of reaching orbit could lower the cost of launching communication satellites to areas of the world where laying cables is not economical.
The concept of the space elevator was first proposed by the Russian rocket scientist Konstantin Chiolkovsky at the beginning of the 20th century, but gained popularity following the book by Arthur C. Clark Fountains of Paradise.
In November, a conference will be held in Japan where the participants - scientists from all over the world - will exchange ideas and work together to design the space elevator.
42 תגובות
Ma'ayan, the mass for the construction of the elevator and the cables is very negligible compared to the mass of the Earth. The problem that can arise from the mass of the cables is that the mass of the cable itself, especially in areas with a low atmosphere where gravity is very significant, will be too much of a load for the cable to be able to hold (like the explanation why insects did not evolve For huge sizes.) Of course there are other problems.
Indeed, there are only a few materials that exist today that can fit the job - after all, high strength is required for low weight, what is called: high specific strength. One of the promising materials is carbon fibers made of nanotubes (nanotubes) with a special structure (hollow tubes made of hexagons of carbon bonds). These materials are very heavy and have a relatively low mass (materials that received their inspiration from nature - spider webs, which are also incredibly strong), but the problem is in their creation.
Currently they are still trying to invent an industrial process that does not exist. The process development problems are many, among them is the creation of tubes with a defined directionality that is preserved and more.
I wonder what the effect of such an elevator would be on Earth,
After all, this is about building a new small moon...
In addition, the release of large amounts of mass will not affect our orbit around the sun?
The question is over
I wish they built an elevator.
Haim:
Well?
And let's assume that the cable will be crooked and not vertical.
What then?
Where is the problem?
And as for the strength - they also do not claim that there is a suitable strong material today (and you should know that the strongest cables out there are not made of diamond) but since the first person who said the same things as you say and up to today, the cables that we know how to produce have become stronger by tens of meters and there is a good chance that this trend will continue (And we are no longer that far from the necessary strength).
I do not pretend to know the future but I do not advocate the kind of laxity you are trying to incite.
I hope you remember the nonsense that was said even by scientists greater than you every time they tried to predict and claim that a certain thing could not come true.
I also think that the probability and programming of this is very weak
Those "scientists" are waiting for a salary at the end of the month, so they have to invent something.
I did all the calculations for such a cable.
This is utter nonsense. Because of the centrifugal force the cable will be curved and not vertical.
There is no material in nature, even pure diamond, whose mass will hold itself.
The weight of the cable is getting smaller and smaller until about 35 thousand kilometers.
Someone tried to calculate its mass.
That's why all these "scientists" if they worked for me, they would be fired immediately.
Stop working for those who don't understand.
good day everybody.
Why wasn't an electricity generator built based on solar energy from such an elevator? Who wants to join such a start-up?
Sorry, mistake: write down: Athens (Talach)
You never know what the future holds, especially in science, but in everything
This I dare to bet regarding the results of the "space elevator" development attempt. Well, in my opinion, for the reasons
As Yehuda and others pointed out, the attempt to build an elevator to space will fail. However, the results of the research that will be done as part of this project, will lead to new developments and discoveries, in many and varied fields, that there is no way to cover them now. This is a familiar and well-known dynamic in the history of science, you look for newspapers - and you find....a kingdom.
Modern technology builds the finished product. For example, when building a house, you build with concrete and build what will be in the end and it doesn't really change.
Nature (for example a tree or an elephant) starts small and keeps adding and adding to itself.
A good solution would be if the cable somehow starts small and builds itself up.
Yehuda:
You didn't read my words or you are trying to "sabotage" the readers.
Although because of your obsession with pushing gravity, I thought at the beginning of the conversation that this was it, but when you said that this is not what you are talking about - I pointed out to you the things that seemed suspicious to me in the alternative you presented.
In the last response, I just wanted to make sure that you don't zigzag back to Pushing Gravity and that's exactly what I said, so please - don't try to deceive the readers and make them think that I didn't understand that you're not talking about Pushing Gravity.
By the way - please point out one "nonsense" in my words.
Michael
The collection of nonsense you spread in your response is not worth a response.
The one who is arrogant and sees things through the eyes of his confused spirit is you. All in all, he knows how to repeat old chants from the scientific establishment without much understanding
No one has talked about Pushing Gravity and yet you keep repeating it over and over again and you really have an obsession.
With most of your impudence, you comment on an article that has not yet been written with physical knowledge that you do not have.
I really don't feel like responding to your bullshit.
And I'm not sure I'll respond to you when I write the article.
Good night
Sabdarmish Yehuda
N. plant:
If you had read the chapter Construction in the link I provided you would not have asked the question.
Yehuda:
As I mentioned in another comment.
I have no power for nonsense.
The fact that you said what the result you get is not an explanation so don't twist things. I said you didn't explain and indeed you didn't. Is it difficult to maintain credibility even in such simple matters?
I repeat: there is no pressure to speak of in Pushing Gravity. According to Ella, you answered that you are not talking about pushing gravity and I recommend that you stick to this position and not start zigzagging because that would be really disrespectful.
I told you that without gravity pushing every object would move differently under the influence of the cosmic gas (I guess you remember that a feather falls differently than an iron ball) and that you have no basis for describing the "movement of the galaxy" as a whole.
If you had addressed the subject of the specific mass of bodies, you would have had nothing to check and the answer "I took the specific mass into account" would have "respected" me enough - there would have been no need to go back to the formulas.
Therefore, I have no doubt that the need to return to the formulas is due to the fact that you did not take the specific mass into account (which is an elementary mistake).
I also repeat that if you were to take it into account and still claim that it is what rotates the galaxy it would point to additional errors because your conclusion is clearly incorrect.
But - as mentioned - if you want to humiliate yourself even more, I won't stop you.
It reminds me of the trackers with the cafeteria in Tiberias, who will start building it from top to bottom...
As for the actual matter, I can't understand (and no one has explained) how it is possible to place-raise a cable
A meter or more thick and thousands of kilometers long and thousands of kilometers high.
And if they chain him from top to bottom - how will he get there?
Sorry, I don't think it's that applicable.
Mr. Michael
You didn't find any mistakes because there is no name and I did tell you what it was about!
I told you what came out of the calculations, you told me it couldn't be, even though I checked before telling you, I decided that I would check again out of appreciation for you and your words. But there is no mistake. So don't tell me nonsense about elementary mistakes when you haven't seen the calculations yet, then wait and then if you want, express your familiar and negative opinion. I really thought you were wrong.
Next time I will consult Hugin.
What does Hugin sound like?, Michael annoys me. tell him
Now you will have to deal with Hugin.
Lila Tovani I think it is better to wait for the article and not argue now.
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Yehuda:
Regarding response 25:
You didn't explain the idea to me.
You said a few words (here on the website) and already in them I found very basic mistakes.
If it was true in your theory, you would have to be able to answer my claims (which, as mentioned - were made even without hearing the theory itself) within one second.
The very fact that you have to think about such elementary questions (which any serious person who thinks about the subject must think about even before he starts adding and multiplying and calling it a calculation) shows that your whole approach to the subject is not serious.
Melody T
All this considerable cable must first of all lift itself and the elevator, to this day no cable with a length of 35 thousand km is able to lift itself and no thicker cable will help here because it will also be heavier. That is why I think that at least in the first years the builders will They are frugal in what they load on the expensive cable and apart from small service and observation stations at the interchanges between the up and down, there will be nothing on the way.
What will happen somewhere in the future? for future solutions
Good night
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Melody T
I am going to write an article about it. I explained the idea to Michael and after talking with him I go back and check all the calculations again. The results obtained are "interesting"
A little patience
Hope to find time during the holidays
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Yehuda,
Not related to this article, I saw that in the previous article you mentioned your gas theory without gravity, as a dark matter theory. Can you elaborate on what the theory is?
Dear Yehuda,
When your base is wide and stable (you can build it in one of the speakers) you can build on it anything you want within the engineering possible framework and the cable and the elevator itself in the middle. As far as I remember in the book there were 6 different elevators in case there was a terrorist explosion or a malfunction in one of them.
Consider a base structure that covers an area of 2 km by 2 km, and if it is not a wide enough base, you can always build a wider one, if the land is cheap and there is a budget for the raw materials.
Selling commercial space and hotels at different heights shouldn't be difficult, so it is possible to find financing for the construction of the base. The electricity for the building can come from the ground, or smarter than the solar energy as mentioned. The most valuable part in my opinion will be the sealing against the escape of oxygen and the penetration of solar radiation inside.
To Hugin - I have no control over the site's clock, it is on the server that handles 100 sites.
Laxion - a consortium is an association of companies and academic bodies for the purpose of joint development.
Chen T was wrong!
Everything you build around the cable up to a height of 35 km only burdens the cable and requires its water to be thicker. Therefore, if possible, avoid attaching structures up to a height of 35 feet. It will be possible to build beyond that.
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Most of the issues raised here have already been resolved regarding skyscrapers. It is possible to make a high-quality arch to prevent electrocution by lightning, you can go up in different parts. You can build quite a bit around the elevator and actually create a large-scale complex along the entire length that will include residences, shopping malls, hotels, and a large number of elevators.
One question - is this a consortium?
Father, shouldn't the site's clock be updated to one hour back?
Good to hear about such blessed initiatives.
By the way, such a space elevator is beautifully described in Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy.
Where the elevator is built from an asteroid or a meteor, I can't remember anymore. It was brought into orbit around Mars and robots build the elevator from top to bottom. Its ascent takes several days. One of the books even describes the fall of the space elevator, which is also an interesting and important topic in realizing such a project in reality.
On another subject. There are some regular commenters here, who in most of their responses are arguing among themselves. All these infantile quarrels do not suit the commenters themselves nor the site. And in general give an unpleasant feeling from reading them. So friend, there is no need to prove that you are the smartest. Do yourself a favor, relax.
It seems to me that this would be a construction project that would be easier to build from the top down.
from the equilibrium point in both directions at the same time.
It is true that raising the materials will cost a lot of money, but I don't see any other way.
Or weave a metric nano fiber along the entire length and weave the rest of the fibers around it like you weave the cables in the suspension bridges.
In any case, an engineering challenge of the first order
For Zechariah - mainly science, but it is also allowed to refer to the future and not only the present.
To Eyal, two of the many links that dealt with this.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article4799369.ece
http://www.impactlab.com/2008/09/22/japan-space-elevator-association-to-draw-up-timetable-for-space-elevator/
This idea is futuristic and hard to grasp, about as much as landing a man on the moon was unimaginable in the late 40s. And it is a fact that this dream came true within 2 decades. My doubt is that 9 billion dollars will be enough for such a major task.
Is this a site about science or science fiction?
point:
Yehuda's answer is correct and to make things even clearer he says that at the end of the cable there is a weight (obviously, a body that not only weighs but also has certain management and control systems) that stretches it using the centrifugal force created as a result of its rotation around the earth.
By the way, not only the force of gravity must be overcome but also the Coriolis force that will be applied to the body climbing up or down the cable.
The planning also takes this into account.
You can find an extension, for example, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator
point
Isn't that the whole point! The length of the cable will be over 35 km. As we know from communication satellites, they stand at a height of 35 km without falling.
If they lengthen the cable enough, the longer part could hold the part that is less than 35 thousand km.
So that it will give up tension and a freight elevator and people will be able to climb on it cheaply
Good Day
Sabdarmish Yehuda
I did not understand. What will hold the wire from falling to earth? Or did they ignore gravity?
For Naftali, reading comprehension is at some point doable.
And this sentence does not refer only to the article, but is a general principle. What will….
Yehuda:
Roy already answered you.
Coming to a research program upon its foundation with claims that it is not over yet is simply idiotic.
Naftali,
The consortium plans to organize conferences where scientists and engineers can clarify to each other what is needed and what is missing to complete the project, and in which direction research should be done. The consortium will certainly also provide financial support to researchers trying to realize some of the project's goals, such as research to produce stronger materials.
This is a welcome initiative, since the amount of results in a certain research field is usually directly proportional to the amount of dollars (or wines) invested in it.
To Michael
Naftali is right
Right now there aren't even wires, let alone a meter thick rope. They also ignore the safety of the facility, which at the moment I don't see how it will withstand storms or damage. There is also a danger from lightning that will ignite such a coal fiber. I would let the skyscraper elevators work with such cables for several years and only then think about an elevator into space.
Don't attack anyone who just questions the motives for the projects. This is not about science and scientists, it is about a lot of money and a lot of politics
Good Day
Sabdarmish Yehuda
I wonder what Arthur C. Clarke would say this if he were still alive, after finally getting an elevator up into space is nerve-wracking and close to realisation.
Naftali:
If you have nothing to say - making claims to the people of science and technology is always a good idea.
If you don't find complaints - you can always repeat what they said they were going to do and preach to them to do it first.
The idea has been around for decades.
It is not feasible today because there are no strong enough materials.
What exactly does this consortium plan to do? First they will invent the appropriate materials, and then they will start with plans on how to use them.
It's amazing that everything the person thinks about is at some point doable.
Unbelievable. Can I have a link?