During the times when the temples existed, no one fasted on Yom Kippur, it is not even written in the Torah. The custom began only many hundreds of years later - during the late Talmud period
Yom Kippur, the one that falls on the XNUMXnd of Tishrei, is an ancient holiday and time, completely biblical, the holiest of all Israel's holidays and its times, except that in its essence there is an apparent contradiction between fasting and enjoyment, which proves the lack of uniformity in matters of Halacha and customs in general, and what is very acceptable in the ancient era on the one hand and changes Signature wording and proof regarding the Holy Scriptures - the Bible, and the literature of the Sages that came after it.
The Bible requires the public to fast on that day, as it is written: "Fasten your souls and do no work in it" (Leviticus 29:XNUMX), and why? And to this the next verse answers: in order to gain purification and atonement from all sins.
It is apparently possible to include the fast as part of that fasting, but the Bible does not expressly instruct so. And if he wanted to, he would not lack the words associated with the commandment to fast.
Does the Mishnah sail and address the subject of fasting for the first time? Let's see. In the tractate Yoma, which is entirely dedicated to Yom Kippur, the Mishna describes the high priest's sacred duties on this day, there is not even a hint in the light about the fast, except for a dubious hint that the high priest rarely eats long before Yom Kippur, "because the food brings sleep" (Yoma XNUMX:XNUMX) And they "teas" him with several instructions that God forbid if he falls asleep at night on his watch.
And later on, the sages discuss the issue of fasting and other fasting customs, with most of them opposing it, with the exception of Rabbi Eliezer, who supports it.
The custom of fasting and the other prohibitions such as rubbing the body with oil, washing, wearing a sandal made of leather, and using a bed (that is, conjugal relations) appears in an explicit and binding manner after the end of Ben Kusva's attempted rebellion and the transfer of the center of gravity from Judah to the Galilee, and this instruction is established in the period that characterizes the end of the second century AD Or the continuation of the next century if not more than that. And in another place, as if to reflect the disagreement between the sages, the members of the Sanhedrin, mark Yom Kippur as a good day precisely because of the process of forgiveness for the sins of the people and especially for the original sin of the calf in the desert. Moreover, in the sources of the sages, Yom Kippur is seen as the day of the initiation of the great priesthood and the temple To say - a holy day that governs fasting and penitence, to teach you how deep was the disagreement between the members of the Sanhedrin regarding the laws of Yom Kippur, its purpose and essence.
More than that, I published an article about this in "Hidan" at the time The dance of the virgins as a sacred custom that took place in Jewish societyAs well as in ancient civilizations in the world of one day a year dedicated to pairings between single men and women, when the temple (yes, yes, the temple) in Shiloh served as a kind of sacral and geographical lodge for the observance of this custom - i.e., from the sands of virgins in order to find a suitable groom. The date is not stated in the Bible, but it has an interesting chronological hint.
This allusion was picked up during the Second Temple period and after that among the members of the Sanhedrin who noted, no less and no more, Yom Kippur along with Yom Tu Bav as especially good days that were not equal in Israel - as the original language says (good days to remind us is not a casual expression but A multiplicity of sacred Yom Tov), where the virgins danced, created in the vineyards in order to capture potential grooms, even with song and melody. And remind us that this is the Yom Kippur of the days of the Second Temple and after the destruction.
The girls were dressed in white, and this will not be easy in our eyes. and why? Well, on Yom Kippur the high priest was personally responsible for everything that happened in the Temple. And his sacred, thorough, careful and meticulous work was the foundation for the purification of the public, and not in each individual's home but only through the temple in terms of distinct sacral centralism. And the high priest was dressed in white clothes, perhaps in connection with the clothing of the free girls, the prostitutes, who danced that very day. I wonder if I am Alma or Peligi.
One of the most important actions performed by the high priest on the night of Yom Kippur was the donation of the fertilizer on the altar, and who among the priests got to contribute the donation? The one who finished the race from Shushan Gate to the sacred space of the temple (about 120 m), when the distance between the winner and the "blowing on his neck" had to be at least four cubits, that is two meters and twenty centimeters. The origin of this running was in the Hellenic sport at Olympia (I wrote about this in one of my lists in "Hidan").
So what have we had until now: the silence of the Bible regarding the fast, a dispute between the sages during the Second Temple period and after the destruction of the Temple regarding the fasting customs on Yom Kippur, that is, between the lenient and the strict, when the lenient were usually the majority. and that fasting was absorbed in the later Talmud period.
And at the same time, alongside fasting here and there, we find "strange" phenomena that are somewhat far from the accepted essence these days regarding how we define Yom Kippur customs, such as the courtship dances (the pop meetings of old) and the running competition straight into the Temple.
The topic of fasting in the historical chronological bar of the ancient era can be divided into four parts - first - complete ambiguity in the biblical period, and certainly the royal house was distant from this by an east-west distance. Second - during the Second Temple period, the High Priesthood, with the exception of the Hasmonean family era, where the leader was elevated to a deliberate, somewhat political, position of High Priesthood, occupied a central place in public life, and therefore the whole issue of atonement and purification needed and relied on the Temple and its "star" - the High Priest, And the public found itself neutralized and passive regarding Yom Kippur customs. Thirdly - after the destruction, when the absence of the temple led to the dissolution of the institution of the priesthood from this and the growth of the class of sages, the members of the Sanhedrin from this, when from their core the institution of the presidency grew and strengthened. The sages allowed themselves a degree of prerogative, when on the one hand the temple center of gravity was distracted and dispersed to the scattered communal settlements, when many and good people "made Shabbat for themselves", and on the other hand the center - in Yavneh - sought to maintain its dignity and authority, but failed in most cases, and as a result, not all followed a uniform custom either Regarding Yom Kippur. Fourth - after the rebellion of Ben Kusaba, when the center migrated north, to Usha, the members of the Sanhedrin, led by President Rabbi Shimon ben Gamliel, formulated to anchor and establish those prohibitions that appear in the Yoma Mishnat, including the practice of fasting on Yom Kippur, as appears from the Tosefta.
It was a kind of immanent criticism, as well as other sharp criticisms, against the awakening of the rebellion in the Romans, when Ben Kosba presented himself as the Messianic king and there was a danger of a major revolution in all the laws and customs, as a result a number of sages came to their senses and reestablished the five prohibitions of Yom Kippur, the first of which was the prohibition of eating and drinking, although the members of the Sanhedrin made quite a few concessions regarding those prohibitions. Fourth - it was only at the end of the conditional period and the beginning of the Amorites that the binding ruling of fasting on Yom Kippur was known, probably by the decision of the great president of Israel in the ancient era, Rabbi Yehuda the Hanasi.
35 תגובות
I love you
I read it and couldn't stop laughing
I can't believe that the BNA is able to write such nonsense with a bold brush, hahahahahahaha
BSD
Peace and blessings,
I read your article. Really, several times.
And I came to add to my previous ones.
It is reflected in your article that you use your words and the words of the sages as a tool to dig into, in order to find "doubts" and "contradictions" in the words of the Torah and the words of the sages.
But, with your words and the way you do so, you are digging a hole for yourself.
You ignore facts, you ignore things that appear in the sources and which or some of them you want to quote.
Or in short, next time, be more specific.
Happy Shabbat Shalom (or for you, for sure, a nice weekend).
Assaf Haim Price
Hello Dr. Sorek,
In the matter of your article, we are satisfied or enjoying.
In the matter of mental torture, see Da'at Mekara and Leviticus XNUMX:XNUMX.
On the matter of the generators, see the writings of Rabbi Avraham Epstein, XNUMX pp. XNUMX-XNUMX.
Best regards,
Neria
Hollow article, you ignored the fact that there were contemporaries who lived at the time of the Temple and they did fast.
The word Taanit Nefesh dates in my opinion to 1000 BC at the latest. If we accept according to the way of scientific biblical research the concept that part of the people of Israel originated in Egypt and part in the Chaldeans (which is also accepted by Professor Finkelstein, winner of the Dan Daur Prize), and in the land they united and divided into suits: the Kingdom of Israel and Judah, let's say. According to secular research, Josiah created the mythological codex Deuteronomy in 622 BC to claim ownership of the exclusivity of offering sacrifices in Jerusalem and not to divide it into districts such as the site at Tel Megiddo where they went on pilgrimage (a foot was a god). Much earlier scrolls than this were in the hands of his priests when he defined the book of Deuteronomy.
The part that cannot be clearly scientifically proven historically, and here I express my belief but not a scientifically clear opinion, is that there was a mythological unofficial codex with a real basis for the part of the people that came out of Egypt and this extends the practice to at least 1500 BC. The exodus from Egypt probably did not last 40 years, but perhaps about 400 years, and the ten plagues were spread over a long period of time. But there are historical sources that contradict the Torah, about a military people named Habiru who conquered Egypt for about 200 years and hence the name Abiru and hence Hebrew. The names Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are recorded in hieroglyphs in Egypt, and wonder of wonders, "save me please" and not in the Torah. Joseph also shared a treasure which Pharaoh Sethi recorded in hieroglyphs.
He and his friend were demoted to the rank of masons and expelled from Egypt. There is also testimony about Tut-Anach's father Amun who tried to make a revolution of faith in one god Amun, the sun god, in Egypt. The revolution ended in rebellion. Those who believe in one God may have found themselves exiled towards Canaan.
Even before the signing of the Mishnah by Rabbi Yehuda Hanasi and the Talmud after it, which was created around 298 AD, there were scrolls that existed long before, from the days of the Great Knesset and Sanhedrin, but when the Codex was signed, one binding literature was created and all the versions that existed in Babylon, and in Israel, were rejected.
It is very nice that Dr. Sorek's article provokes a chain of 39 responses. This is the purpose of the site.
friends I share The word fast is synonymous in the Bible with fasting. I have already shown that in Isaiah 735 BC the word fasting is mentioned. Now the word fast. I am a secular guy, who believes in absolute separation of religion and state but believes in the Creator.
And read XNUMX as a heart
And Jehovah spoke to Moses saying. But in the tenth of this seventh month, the Day of Atonement is. You will have a holy book and you will answer your souls and you will sacrifice a woman to Yahweh. And you shall not do any work with your flesh this day, because the Day of Atonement is to make atonement for you before the Lord your God...
And in the tenth of this seventh month there will be a holy reading for you and you will punish your souls for any work you shall not do. And you shall offer a burnt offering to the LORD, a fragrant aroma, a ram, one male ram, one ram, twenty lambs, one year old, seven days of age, you shall have...
In the wilderness XNUMX-XNUMX
And what I said about cruel sacrifice. The scapegoat thrown from the mountain
And Aaron assigned lots to the two hairs, one lot to Yahweh and one lot to Azazel... and this was to be a universal law for you to atone for the children of Israel from all their sins , one year and he did as Jehovah commanded Moses..
The purpose of today as defined in the Torah:
"...because on this day he will make atonement for you to purify you, from all your sins before God you will be cleansed
for miracles,
Avraham is of course right.
The Torah is the five pentacles written in the Sefer Torah. The word fasting is not there. In the rest of the Bible, the word fasting and the root fasting are mentioned several times.
Uncle
Nissim, I assume that "Hello, this is a doctor", meant that the root of fasting does not appear in the five pentagrams of the Torah.
As we know, the Bible is divided into Torah, Prophets and Scriptures.
I decided.
Yom Kippur as it is mentioned in the Torah, and in the prophets includes fasting.
(I generally enjoy Dr. Sorek's writings, so these things are said as differences of opinion towards
A person I respect a lot and being a history buff as well, I am very pleased that there is a history corner).
I decided.
Being a supporter of the scientific view in the study of the Bible, and according to the theory of the scientific scrolls, I date the texts of the Torah to the reformation of King Josiah of Judah in 622 BC (the book of Deuteronomy mainly) and the prophet Isaiah ben Amutz I date to 735 BC or 788 BC according to The dilemma of the first or second Isaiah. That is, at least 735 BC I think there was a fast on Yom Kippur and that is the days of the First Temple. I don't have time, but if a biblical scholar goes into the Torah, I think he will also find fasting, even though I agree that the main part of the ancient holiday was the offering of sacrifices (quite cruel), and the entry of a high priest into the Holy of Holies, who was brought in in chains, to pull him, because they are not always Chaim came out of there, and uttering the explicit name that they avoided saying otherwise.
Regarding the Bible as a whole, according to the words, there is no proof of the existence of God in it, there is no proof of that in my opinion.
+ It contains a very modern testimony from about 3000 years ago, which is not found in any other text, of belief in one abstract and spiritual God. This is if we date the Torah to Josiah 622 BC Book of Deuteronomy, and assume that Genesis was already a scroll before the Bible was signed. I am not longing for the mythological Jacob, because there is no scientific proof for it.
Jacob says: I am the least of all the kindnesses... which you have done for your servant. ...please save me. A very modern and clear language, and innovative at that time.
+ In general: the Bible, the Mishnah and the Talmud seem to me to be an important historical source, which survives the excellent reviews of Professor Finkelstein, for example, whose materials I have read.
Hello, is this a doctor?
I don't want to argue with what you say, but you manage to argue with yourself:
1) You wrote "The root of fasting is not mentioned in the Torah"
2) You wrote "In the language of King David in Psalms (La, XNUMX) I answered with the fasting of my soul."
And also "in the words of Isaiah (Nah, XNUMX) Why did you fast and you did not see? "
And also "In Isaiah (Nah, XNUMX) it is said that there will be a fast of his choice on the day of the repentance of his soul."
And also "Ezra (XNUMX:XNUMX) and I read there a fast by the river"
Maybe you will decide? 🙂
The text is not divine in my opinion. Completely human. The emphasis in it is on literature and less on history and the dating in it is sometimes wrong.
And in the XNUMXth, a great many details in it turn out to be true in a cross-check from an external source.
The Talmud (series of Sages, Dr. Rav Binyamin Lau graduated from the Hebrew University) which dates back to 298 CE, also contains historical information. For example the story about Jesus which may/probably points to Jesus outside the New Testament. The details in the above story match the description of Jesus in the New Testament, the attitude is hostile but not completely. There is a self-criticism of the Master of Jesus for his severity with his disciple.
We are talking about the bestseller of all time - the Bible. Each time researchers question the correctness of the text, and each time evidence emerges that refutes the attempts. In the text that talks about Jacob our father, who is a mythological figure, it is said:
Please, I am crossing the Jordan with my stick, I am divided into two camps, fear the enemy, my brother Esau, please save me.
At least 4000 years old evidence of a simple person's personal faith in one.
There is no such testimony so early that its sincerity cannot be mistaken.
Every Yom Kippur I read the part of the Torah in which Yom Kippur is described and the order of work in the Temple and the information in the article is not certain to match the biblical text. As far as I am concerned, the text is at least 3000 years old, from the discovery of Deuteronomy by the King of Judah and the reformation of the Temple. I may be wrong and in XNUMX also the book of Isaiah: Isn't this a day of fasting I will choose.
Open the gates of evil and set prisoners free. The prophet's criticism of excessive strictness in the Yom Kippur mitzvah of doing things compared to a man to his fellow man.
Regarding the correctness of the biblical text. A professor who was very respected by me in Tel Aviv published books about the smallness of David and Shlomo as kings and here the Golan tombstone was found and it mentions the house of David in the Golan Heights. And if the house of David came there then David was less of an urban ruler and more of a state ruler.
If you want to go back to those days, I believe that the Israeli government should dismantle the wooden bridge that leads to the Temple Mount. And enjoy an impressive stone bridge, which will make Mount Moriah accessible to every person (including the disabled).
As a person surfing the science website to keep up with science news, I expect to find articles that are written logically and correspond to reality. Let's examine this article.
The author states in the title:
"During the times when the temples existed, no one fasted on Yom Kippur, it is not even written in the Torah. The custom only began many hundreds of years later - during the late Talmud period."
There are 3 mistakes here.
Is it not written in the Torah? Is this surely not written in the Torah?
And while it was not written in the Torah, will we check if it was not written later but much, much before the late Talmud period?
And even if it wasn't written. Can it be concluded from this that they certainly did not fast until then - that throughout the generations they did not interpret the words of the Torah as an obligation to fast, but only during the period of the mention that the author found?
The author explains in the article the sources of his conclusions:
"The Bible requires the public to fast on that day, as it is written: "You shall fast your souls and you shall not do any work in it" (Leviticus 29:XNUMX)... It is apparently possible to include fasting as part of that fast, but the Bible does not explicitly instruct that. And if he wanted to, he would not lack the words associated with the commandment to fast."
The author therefore understands that it is possible that the same torture can be interpreted as fasting, but in his opinion it would have been desirable for the Bible to word it in a different way - in a more "explicit" way.
The fallacies in this logic:
A. The language is evolving, the language of the Torah is different from the language of the Sages and different from the language of our times. And where does the statement that the word torture in the language of the Torah has no meaning - fast? It soon appears that this is indeed the case, and the word fasting is not found in the Torah.
B. Even if it was a more vague wording, and that the poet can be obliged in what way to word it? And maybe he prefers to express himself in a hint - and in a way that was understandable to the people of his generation at least?
third. Even if it was a vague wording, is it possible to state with certainty that they did not fast, and did not interpret the prohibition as fasting, just because the author decided to interpret it differently?
And now we will examine the facts.
How do you say fast in the language of the Torah? The root of fasting is not mentioned in the Torah, but it is mentioned in Deuteronomy XNUMX:XNUMX: And he tortured you and made you hungry, so already in the Torah itself the connection between torture and hunger is explained. And in the language of the Sages to this day - the word "fasting" is derived from the root "torture".
And even more clearly and explicitly in the language of King David in the Psalms (La, XNUMX) I answered with a mental fast.
And in the words of Isaiah (Nah, XNUMX) why did you fast and you did not see? - Our eyes are our souls and you will not know?
And also in Isaiah (Nah, XNUMX) it is said that there shall be a fast of his choice on the day of the repentance of his soul.
And in the language of Ezra (XNUMX, XNUMX) and I read, there is a fast on the river and it is to humble ourselves before our God.
In all these verses it is made clear that torture is fasting, and all of these were a very long time before the Talmud, or the later Talmud.
Uncle
Many elements of Judaism as we know it today were written in the Mishnah period 0 to 600 AD
This is because the Mishnah and the Talmud made an important order and also brought the Torah in the Bible to writing, and to world Judaism.
Judaism progressed a lot during the first 1000 years and there is nothing new or wrong in the fact that in the beginning some of the laws were not followed and this is because many did not know or were familiar with them. The big question is whether Judaism can even adapt itself to the new advanced world of Judaism of the future generations.
You're a bullshit.
Speaking of coercion and violence, today a stone was thrown from a traditional settlement on the car of a relative of mine who returned to his home on an interstate road.
These are not the ways of the Torah! These are ignorant and criminal extremists who have taken over the religion! And the rest of their religious friends who back them up, give them a voice and stage and justify them, stir up and incite the rest and even come out with cynical claims of anti-liberalism against anyone who holds an educated discussion about the sources and who does not behave as extreme as they do...
Where did we get to?!!!
"Does the Mishna set sail and address the issue of fasting for the first time? Let's see. In the tractate Yoma, which is entirely dedicated to Yom Kippur, the Mishna describes the high priest's sacred duties on this day, there is not even a hint in the light about the fast, except for a dubious hint that the high priest rarely eats long before Yom Kippur, "because the food brings sleep" (Yoma XNUMX:XNUMX) And they "teas" him with several instructions that God forbid if he falls asleep at night on his watch.
And later on, the sages discuss the issue of fasting and other fasting customs, with most of them opposing it except for Rabbi Eliezer who supports it."
Say, are you serious? Did you really write that? Unbelievable...Rabbi Eliezer *makes it easier* on some papers (which are not related to fasting at all) and sages disagree with him on these simplifications. Here is the text of the Mishnah that deals with fasting in tractate Yoma:
XNUMX Yom Kippur is forbidden in eating and drinking, in washing and applying hairpin, in wearing sandals and in using the bed. The king and the bride will wash their faces, and the animal will lock the sandal, according to Rabbi Eliezer; And sages Osrin. [b] Eating on Yom Kippur as a crude writer like her and her grain, and drinking in his full sips is obligatory. All the eaters join in writing, and all the poor join in the fullness of their sips; The food and the drink are not added."
There is no dispute in the Yoma treatise on the actual law of fasting, but on such and such details, here is the text of the Yoma treatise in the Mishnah, the last chapter deals with the laws of fasting:http://www.mechon-mamre.org/b/h/h25.htm
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4577455,00.html
To all the religious responders
The article includes facts, and is not intended for reading by religious people. Are you biting the tree of knowledge again, and your conscience is bothering you?
To all the commenters here: Yes, it is unpleasant to hear the truth, especially if it conflicts with the beliefs you grew up with. You can from today until tomorrow adapt reality to your belief, talk about the Zohar, sefirot and other nonsense. But it won't help you. You have the right to believe what you want but don't think that this is the reality that's all.
People invented laws, and other people were born into this system of laws, and today still live by it.
There is nothing wrong with that, at the end of a religious day there should be a choice of a certain life editor, but why
Does it always come down to "I'm right, you're not"? As long as you do no harm to another, you cannot sin.
In fact, the entire Torah can be summed up in one wise sentence: "What is hateful to you, do not do to your friend."
I constantly watch your articles and everywhere you try to ignore our teachings, and hang on to worthless symbols and grip on reality
That's why a lot of people don't respond and not only that other faiths such as our cousins the Shemaleites are happy with your writings and in this they think that their religion is one and only. And my personal suggestion is that you get away with Islam and Christianity because here you have more than enough freedom of speech.
Avi,
Review?? And is she supposed to be scientific? If so, there are some very serious scientific failures here, which is a lack of historicism, a wrong interpretation and a basic lack of recognition of the Bible. A rather delusional and trending article...
I haven't read such a hodgepodge of nonsense in a long time. If the Torah writes to answer, fasting is a quite legitimate interpretation of this commandment (as if you fasted, da!) and it was probably so obvious that it was not mentioned before.
You chose to believe in the God of Israel, so fast and there is no place here for your twisted interpretation
You chose not to believe, so there is no point in fasting, no matter what they did or didn't do two thousand years ago
Mahmoud One of the characteristics of liberalism is criticism, including self-criticism. And besides, the article deals with the historical review of facts. Where is there an attack on Judaism? If we wanted to attack there is enough religious coercion in the present that needs to be stopped.
With all due respect to Zohar, the scientists are not supposed to float in the upper (imaginary) spheres but look for evidence of what really happened.
Total lack of understanding by the author of the article.
Going a little deeper through the Zohar in Judaism there are ten sefirot, the sefirot we are in is the sefirot of Malchut as the Temple existed, the people of Israel were connected to the 6 sefirot above the sefirot of Malchut after the sword of the Temple was cut off from the upper sefirot. This means that the spiritual system then and today is not the same at all.
By the way, there used to be no prayers in Judaism and sacrifices were offered in the Temple, but after the Temple was destroyed by the people of Israel, the prayers began instead of the sacrifice, the article verse "Vanshloma Priim Shaftino"
SOCRATES: I use my real name. And are you really a thinker??
In the case of Herzl-Uganda, the dance was in an area called "Karamoja" which is a desert area with almost no population, on the Uganda-Kenya border. The English (not Herzl) wanted to push us into exactly that area.
Herzl
Is that why you wanted to establish the Jewish state in Uganda?
Mahmoud
Why are you concerned with confirming the stigma that religion equals thoughtlessness? No one is attacking anyone in the article. But there is always some religious person who will not understand...
What fun, another article attacking Judaism. Sick genie people, are you supposed to be liberal and tolerant? Go find a life.
The dance of the virgins was not limited to ancient cultures. I saw such a dance in Uganda many years ago.
But there were differences: not all of them were virgins, the practice, as explained to me, was that the dance took place once a year. Starting with the sexual maturity of the boys and girls, they meet for a dance and find partners, but only for a year. Only after a few years can they remain a couple if they both want. The girls are also the ones who choose the couple. Both sexes dance, led by the sorcerers.