"Galaxies have a huge mass, and so do the black holes at their center. This black hole is too big for his shoes. It simply could not have been that big" says Dr. Jako van Loon, an astrophysicist at the University of Kiel and leader of the new research
The supermassive black hole at the center of a newly discovered galaxy has turned out to be much larger than current theories of galaxy evolution believe possible. A new study by researchers from the University of Keele and the University of Leicester Center (both in the UK) has shown that the black hole is much larger than it should be in relation to the mass of the galaxy around it.
The galaxy, SAGE0536AGN was discovered by NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope observing in the infrared light range. The galaxy is estimated to be about 9 billion years old and contains an active galactic nucleus (AGN), an extremely bright object due to the acceleration of the gas to high speed by a supermassive black hole, which causes the gas to emit light.
Researchers have now confirmed the presence of the black hole by measuring the speed of gas movement around it. Using South Africa's large telescope, they observed and discovered that the hydrogen emission line in the spectrum of the galaxy (where the light is broken down into its component colors - an effect similar to what you see in a prism), expands due to the Doppler effect in which the wavelength (color) of light from an object tends to blue if the light if the object approaches toward us or away when the object is moving away from us. Measuring the expansion rate showed that the gas was moving at a high speed, due to the black hole's gravitational field.
This data was used to calculate the mass of the black hole. The heavier the black hole, the wider the emission line. The mass of the black hole in SAGE0536AGN is 350 million solar masses. However, the mass of the galaxy itself, a figure calculated from the measurement of the motion of the stars, is calculated to be about 25 billion solar masses, that is, 70 times the mass of the black hole. The black hole is thirty times larger than expected relative to the size of the galaxy.
"Galaxies have a huge mass, and so do the black holes at their center. This black hole is too big for his shoes. It simply could not have been that big" says Dr. Jako van Loon, an astrophysicist at the University of Kiel and leader of the new study.
In normal galaxies the black hole should grow at the same rate as the galaxy, but in SAGE0536AGN the black hole grew much faster, or alternatively] the galaxy stopped growing prematurely. Because this galaxy was discovered by chance. Time will tell whether SAGE0536AGN is an unusual galaxy or the first of a new type of galaxy.
For a notice on the Royal Astronomical Society website
More of the topic in Hayadan:
21 תגובות
Joseph,
First of all, I will expand on WD's words: not only is it "arguable" that there are leading Israeli scientists in Western universities (and therefore they do not enter your count), it is even trivially true. Have you heard of brain drain? What do you think this term means? He says that people are educated here in Israel, achieve phenomenal achievements, and then go on to apply them in other parts of the world. So when it happens in Iran, you count it as a victory for the Iranian education system that managed to produce a genius scientist who got a job at a reputed university, but when it happens in Israel you ignore it (or see it as a poverty certificate for Israel that was unable to keep a scientist).
In addition, of course you continue to strengthen my claims. how? By moving on to talk about university rankings. Tell me, has anyone here talked about it? Did someone say there was no decline? Did someone say the decline is a statistical anomaly? Throughout the discussion, from the first moment, you invent straw men to fight. You throw a claim into the air, you are shown that it is not true or inaccurate or irrelevant, so very quickly you invent a new topic for discussion and move on to it. This time too, you ignored everything I said (that all your claims are just impressions, that your examples are wrong, that there is no sense in measuring ourselves specifically against Iran) and invented a new topic for discussion: the ranking of the universities. After all, from my first comment I wrote that we need to improve, so what exactly are you trying to prove and to whom? The answer is obvious: you change the subject because you are unable to stop and say, “Wait. Maybe I'm really throwing out a pile of unrelated data that has no purpose other than trying to sow fear that the Iranians will beat us." In English it is called moving the goalposts.
Joseph
If you claim that "elite Muslim scientists will not be found in Muslim but Western universities" why not also claim that elite Israeli (or Jewish) scientists will not be found in Israeli universities but in Western universities?
The Technion according to the Shanghai ranking is rising. According to the Times ranking falls.
It turns out that there is data on the network and those who have time can bring all the numbers you asked for. Arguably, Wikipedia is unreliable. In my opinion, every figure there has a backing figure elsewhere. I am adding here only the Shanghai ranking in the timeline that, next to the TIMES ranking, are considered the 2 most prestigious rankings in the world, search Wikipedia (it is not possible to load a file here), "World University Ranking 2015". Results: Hebrew number 1 in Israel. The Technion/Beer Sheva/Tel Aviv dropped, Haifa dropped out of the 500 ranking. The elite Muslim scientists will not be found in Muslim universities but in Western ones.
The list of 200 Iranian scientists in the Western world:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_contemporary_Iranian_scientists,_scholars,_and_engineers
If you see the drop of an Israeli university from level X to X-1, for a single number of years. You can of course continue to ignore. In my personal opinion only, if we continue like this it is not good. You seem intelligent in a positive way to me. Maybe it worries you too.
For those looking for facts and figures, here is an article from today:
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4705677,00.html
Hebrew rose a little, the Technion and Tel Aviv dropped a lot in the world ranking. I'm not continuing this talkback. You have the last word on the timeline. We will meet if you want in another talkback.
And I also forgot to refer to your use of the term "exponential reversal". Say, do you know what that means? I want to find out if you write nonsense out of ignorance (not understanding the meaning of the terms you use), out of malice (lying with a determined forehead to promote an agenda) or out of complete contempt for the other commenters (doesn't think even a bit about what you write and just throws words) arguing in the posts, hoping it will sound impressive).
Joseph,
Starting to get tired.
1. I'm a physicist. Reading scientific journals is what I do from morning to night, so please don't try to sell me slurs on the fact that you can easily see that Jewish and/or Israeli researchers are on the decline and Muslims on the rise. It's just nonsense, like most of the things you call "dry facts" even though they're actually just things you made up and exist only in your head. You don't provide them with evidence, and when you do provide evidence, then it either turns out that the evidence is fabricated (as in Nima's case) or that the evidence is a list of tasks that the reader has to perform for you. Thank you very much, I've done enough homework in the many years I've been in elementary-grade-high-school-bachelor's-master's-PhD, I don't need some commenter to come up with theories and then send me to test them for him.
2. I did not say that the state of education in Israel is perfect, so all the data you are trying to flood here (hoping that no one will check or think about it, but will just read it and start rattling) are not relevant at all to the very simple criticism you received: your arguments are baseless. Bring a foundation, then we'll talk. And no - establishing this does not mean giving me homework assignments to make statistics for you about Iran and Israel.
3. Your every response only proves my point more and more. You jump from argument to argument, without thinking at all whether you are right or wrong. After all, you yourself admit that some of your arguments are wrong, some are not tested at all, and some are based on gut feelings. So what is actually here? A pile of meaningless posts that have only one common denominator - we are getting weaker, they are getting stronger. This is exactly what is called a scare tactic. You don't even bother to explain what it matters at all: why did you choose to compare Israel to Iran and not to Georgia or Nicaragua? Let's say we checked your whole thread and came to the conclusion that you are right, the Iranians beat us in the academic improvement game. So what? The Germans are also winning. Why did you choose to write specifically about Iran? Because nobody here is currently afraid of the Germans, the Georgians or the Nicaraguans.
Check another figure. If you check the relative proportion of start-up companies that include hardware and software compared to the proportion of start-ups that are internet of everything, you will see that the number of start-up companies that include hardware/software has shrunk and disappeared. I was at the ChipEx 2014 conference and heard the heads of the field talking about it and in the press. People like Dedi Perlmutter, the former vice president of Intel, Molly Eden - as mentioned above, the president of Intel Israel, Avigdor Vilanz, the founder of Galileo (?).
In the past these were Galileo, Nice, Check Point, Red-Binet. True: in the past there was no internet, and some companies succeeded and stopped being start-ups, but in my opinion if we focus only on the internet-of-everything and not on a balanced mix - it will not sustain the economy and I am willing to admit that I may be wrong. In my opinion it is connected to this (not only to this) that the level of education is decreasing, and that the state invests less in education and in supporting businesses that require a lot of funding.
Take the compulsory education in Israel. From Pesach until after the Tishrei holidays, one big holiday alternately: Pesach, Shavuot, Independence, Lag B'Omer, Saharna/Mimona, big holiday, Teshrei holidays.
Instead of getting into trouble, do something simple. Invest more in education.
The academic statistics, and I don't have them, but I write articles and send them to scientific newspapers, are in my opinion that the annual ratio of Israeli articles and their quality and the amount of citations is decreasing relative to itself, and the ratio of Muslim articles and their quality and the amount of citations is increasing tremendously relative to itself over the timeline. This is not intimidation - these are dry data in my opinion. If you open scientific journals and see how many Muslim scientists publish there and how many scientific journals have a Muslim editor-in-chief. Journals such as IEEE (American Society of Engineers), ELSAVIER, IET, and Phys Rev.
If you divide each other to measure the balance of knowledge Israel/Islamic countries, the phenomenon is amplified and becomes exponential in my opinion.
That is, the overturning of the Israel-Islam balance exponentially - and this is not said to scare you, but to be aware. I'm not afraid, I'm staying in the country. This week we heard the speeches of al-Sisi and Abdullah at the UN. I don't think they can be trusted, but they offer acceptance of the Jewish state into the circle of countries that prevent terrorism, promote science, prevent slavery and beheading.
It was said in the news that dozens of schools in Israel charge up to 10,000 NIS per year to improve studies. It means that about 500,000 parents realized that in the existing education system and the existing approach in Israel, if they do not buy the education as they buy the health and other services, their children will not have enough skills to reach the top in the modern world.
This is not the approach in all countries and these are dry data:
Saudi Arabia invests 57 billion dollars in education, including education for girls, which is 4 times the defense budget of Israel.
Germany gives free academic education and I think Italy too.
In general, the approach in other countries is that helping a citizen contributes to the country. In Germany if you would like to install photovoltaic solar collectors on your roof with energy storage you will receive by state law up to 33000 euros in grant. Then you will sell electricity to the electricity companies for NIS 15000 per month and you will have another stable source of income. In Germany, one day they reached 75% electricity production with renewable energy. In Norway, a government company manages oil production in the North Sea together with private companies. Every citizen has a fund that directly saves money for him from oil profits. I have not heard that these countries are not prosperous. Europe owes Germany about 400 billion euros.
In other words, you don't care if what you say is true or not. The main thing is to scare, and if you have to make up stories for that - no big deal, or they won't find out that you made it up, and if they find out all you have to do is say "OK, but I'm right after all."
I meant to tell the collapse of civilizations. Gerard Diamond is a professor, and he brings dozens of examples from history to prove the 5 principles model he proposes.
Today, due to a government policy that we contributed to: 20% ultra-Orthodox, 20% Arab, 10% are engaged in political demonstrations and live on allowances.
About 50% may work but are black, and do not pay taxes to the state. Likewise, they do not serve in the reserves and in the army. Now run a mathematical simulation and say whether you think this is a solid economic structure. You can also take from Gerard Diamond's book the 5 principles for non-collapse of culture and see what is happening in Israel. One of the factors there is called: losing the support of existing allies. The second: the existence of enemies from outside. The third is financial strength. The fourth is the exhaustion of resources or higher consumption than production. I forgot who the fifth is. Add to that a demographic dimension that I did not mention that becomes global. Can such a country afford not to invest in education in the same way as Saudi Arabia/Iran. I don't think so.
In the US, there are about 200 professors of Iranian origin. There is a list on wikipedia.
Maryam Mirzakhani was actually born in Iran.
Do a simple thought experiment. Divide the number of publishers of scientific articles in today's press, of Israeli/Jewish origin, by the number of publishers of Muslim/Arab origin. Do the same for the number of scientific journal editors. will display on axis from 1950 to 2015.
Now divide the number of people publishing science articles of Israeli/Jewish origin by the total number of articles published today compared to 1950 and see what the trend is. There is an article here in the newspaper from about two weeks ago that shows that the ranking of Israeli universities is in sharp decline. It is convenient for us to close our eyes - fine, but let's not be surprised by the results later. They will be expressed in the rate of growth in high-tech and other things. In my opinion, if you check, you will see that I am right already. Count how many hi-tech companies were not on the internet of everything in the past and how many today. You will find zero rate today.
The transition from observing life on an Earth-Moon scale to observing life on a galactic scale reveals that physics needs to be upgraded. That's all and it's beautiful. In the last two years, the existence of the Higgs boson was apparently proven, it was demonstrated that the spaces of space are nothing but energy spaces in convoluted dimensions, it was suggested that gravity can be derived from entropy - although this is still controversial, and countless new observations of the universe, and an attempt to observe wormholes (not only black holes ). As we progress - we will see new things of new magnitudes downward and upward. It's beautiful. It does not challenge the physics, only upgrades it.
There is a possibility that we are currently witnessing a black hole that is sucking the entire galaxy into it.
I would love to hear if this assumption is correct or possible.
Perhaps we are watching in our lifetime a galaxy being sucked in by the black hole at its center.
I would love to hear opinions if there is such a possibility.
Joseph,
First, Nima has not proven what you claim. He (along with other brilliant physicists such as Andy Strominger) came up with an idea and showed the mathematical basis in a private example. It is important to understand that this idea is still only a hypothesis for something that is probably possible.
Secondly, although Nima is of Iranian descent, he was born and raised in Canada. In fact, if my memory serves me correctly, I once heard him say that he had never visited Iran. So that nothing or half a thing can be deduced from it about the Iranian people, about their education system, etc.
Nima won the awards:
Sackler Prize from Tel Aviv University in 2008
inaugural awardee of the Fundamental Physics Prize, 2012
Gribov Medal from the European Physical Society in 2003,
INFN-Pisa Gamberini prize in 1997
Incidentally, this is the first woman to win the Fields Medal.
In the context of black holes that we probably don't know everything about, I am consciously digressing.
Worthy of note is physicist Nima Arkani Hamed of Iranian origin, professor of theoretical physics at Princeton, who showed that the dimensions of space are an illusion created when a multidimensional energy space is viewed at a three-dimensional distance. Winner of a prestigious award for theoretical creative physics in the past. You should bring his work to the science site if you haven't brought it yet. It is revolutionary in theoretical physics.
And in addition, the mathematician Maryam Mirzakhani, winner of the 2015 Fields Medal, from Iran. All of these indicate that the Iranians put education as one of their top priorities. We believe that it hurts the state to invest in education and so year after year our universities go backwards in the world ranking and they are ahead and not only in science, they have political and military achievements. Anyone who underestimates them, and underestimates the statistics that the data convey, is greatly mistaken.