Despite the negligibility of the March effect, the findings caused a huge controversy regarding the question of whether this correlation is indeed real and not the product of research biases
As we saw in the previous entry that dealt with Goklin's impressive life's work, his work refuted the known astrology, and replaced it with a weak correlation between the position of a few planets and the occupations of a handful of outstanding people in the population, a practice that clearly lacks any practical value.
Despite the insignificance of the March effect, the findings sparked a huge controversy regarding the question of whether this correlation is indeed real (and not a Louis product of biases in the study) and, if so, what could be the explanation for it. The researchers' opinions were divided: they saw the effect as inexplicable / worthy of further research / repeatable / questionable / significant / unacceptable / real / a product of research biases, and more.
social biases
Geoffrey Dean, one of the leading astrology researchers of recent times came up with a new and original direction For an explanation, which is not related to the effect of the position of celestial bodies on the person. (This section is an edited summary and translated from the mentioned source).
The idea of biases from a sociological source came to his mind after conversations he had with Goklin himself, Suitbert Ertel (one of Goklin's ardent supporters), and Rudolf Smit in 1991, 4 months before Goklin's death. At the time, Jeffrey did not imagine that the work would require 8 years to complete, "but that is probably the size of the challenge posed by Goklin's puzzles", he said.
During his research on the subject, Jeffrey uncovered more and more pieces of the puzzle, which joined together to form an interesting picture: it is quite possible that some parents falsified the times of their children's births to the times when these planets are above the horizon or in the sky. Again the story of the chicken and the egg (similar to the positive findings regarding the sun signs - see the first article in the series).
It turns out that at that time, professional astrology as we know it today hardly existed in Europe. People knew the "folk" astrology, a description of which can be found in the popular calendar (almanac) called "Le Compost". Here is a quote from him: "The influence of the sky gram is strongest when it shines above the horizon or reaches its peak height in the sky." interesting. That is, this belief was known and widespread hundreds of years before the Mars effect was found.
In fact, there is no need to rely on calendars to attribute symbolic meanings to the rising of a sky gram, or its reaching the peak of its orbit. The interpretation is very intuitive (and probably this is also the source of this belief). Regarding the attributes attributed to the various heavenly bodies, Goquelin himself states in his book Neo-Astrology that they have not changed much since the Babylonian period, and this fact is indeed reflected in the descriptions found in that almanac, as well as in the language itself:
"Gauquelin had also noticed that most military men and sports champions are martial (Mars - warlike), most actors are jovial (Jupiter - cheerful), most scientists are saturnine (Saturn - grumpy), and most creative writers are moonish (Moon-daydreaming)"
But what's the point of falsifying the time of birth? This fake will not move the stars from their course! If their position was not optimal at the time of birth, nothing could change that, so their supposed effect would not occur in any case. A logical argument, but logic doesn't seem to be the kind of thing that guides people in such cases. Because if we continue with the same line of thought, what is the point of skipping the number 13 in the number of floors and calling it "floor 14"? Who exactly are we trying to fool?
Evidence of additional "nonsensical" forgeries can be found in the data of the birth dates.
Jeffrey examined the database of birth data used by Goklin and discovered strange discrepancies in the number of births reported on "desired" dates versus "undesired" dates according to tradition at the time. Compared to the day before and after, there was a surge in births on Christian holidays, on full moon days, on the 7th of the month, etc. On the other hand, there was a spot drop in reports of births on the 13th of the month, on "witches' days", etc.
The discrepancies can be explained if 1 out of every 25 births are moved to the days adjacent to the preferred day, or alternatively 2 out of every 25 births are shifted from a non-preferred day to one of the two days adjacent to it.
It seems that these forgeries are mainly intended to improve the child's self-perception in the future and society's perception of him, in terms of sowing a "self-fulfilling prophecy". If society sees the number 13 as bringing bad luck, it is better for the child not to be born on this date. On the same weight, if the parents want to direct the child to excel in sports, for example, it is better for him and society to think that he was born when Mars is in the area of the sky that helps excel in sports. Why not help luck a little if possible?
In the period in question, professions "remained in the family". Parents expected their children to "carry on the tradition" and were much more eager about it than nowadays. Goklin concluded from the work of others that a significant proportion of famous people come from a handful of parents who are the wealthiest or the most highly educated. Not surprising then because the effect appeared only in outstanding professionals. They were sons of parents who excelled in similar professions, who were very eager to help their children in any possible way to continue their path (even with the help of a slight change at birth). Of course, this situation also supports the phenomenon of the "inheritance of the professions" discovered by Goklin.
But how could the parents know when the various celestial bodies shine or reach their highest height in the sky? First of all, these are exactly the heavenly bodies that are clearly visible to the eye (the planet Mercury is very difficult to identify due to the glare of sunlight near it, it is always in the sky, and Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are too weak to be discerned with the naked eye). But the parents didn't even have to be astronomy enthusiasts. It turns out that these data were provided in popular calendars at the time. Now it is also understood why the effect was discovered only in certain planets and not in the other astrological factors: the more distant planets were not visible to the eye and were not listed in the calendars, and the sun, on the other hand, was seen as a factor of annual significance (seasons). Horoscopes are too long a thing to be faked.
Planetary rising and setting times in 19th century almanacs. From left: Leipzig 1871, Paris 1895, Boston 1815
How do you falsify birth data? Easily. At that time, the parents themselves reported the date of birth to the registry offices in the local city (the father would go there accompanied by two witnesses). The findings show that changing birth dates (preferring certain dates and avoiding others) was not a rare act. Moreover, it does not take many "fakes" to produce Goklin's data. Actually falsifying data of 1 out of 30 births will be enough.
Strengthening of the claim regarding birth time falsification also comes from the following finding: when you check Goklin's data, you see that the Mers effect is larger for round birth hours, and gets smaller the more accurate the time of birth. It's strange, and even counterintuitive if there was any real effect involved. In the case of forgery, it is likely that the parents will choose a round hour in which the planet is in the desired area of the sky, and will not bother to be overly precise. That is, the percentage of fakes in cases where the time of birth is round is expected to be greater, and this is indeed consistent with the findings that the March effect is greater for cases where the reported time of birth is round.
The fake theory also nicely explains the decline in the March effect towards the 50s: over the years, more and more births were reported by doctors and not by the parents, which probably reduced the amount of fakes during the birth hours. In addition, the culture of medical intervention in the birth process (caesarean sections, for example) has increased the number of cases in which the time of birth is accurately recorded and without parental control.
Was the belief strong enough for them to bother to fake it? People carry out far-reaching actions in light of their belief in astrology even today: according to Chinese astrology, a woman born in the year of the Fire Horse will have an unhappy marriage, and may even murder her husband. In the last fire-horse year (1966), births in Japan dropped by 25% compared to the adjacent years, partially due to multiple miscarriages. On the other hand, the Dragon-Earth year is considered lucky for marriage, fertility and new businesses. In the last year of this kind (1988) Births of Chinese in Malaysia and Singapore jumped by about 25% compared to the year before it. A similar effect was not found in the non-Chinese population.
If people go so far as to have abortions based on astrological beliefs, they might as well be able to move the reported time of birth a bit.
In conclusion, it is very possible that the March effect expresses a periodic social phenomenon, and not an astrological truth. In accordance with the beliefs that were prevalent at the time, upper class parents faked the time of birth to "help" push their children to engage in the family professions and excel in them. The data were taken from calendars that were available at the time. This explanation explains why only certain heavenly bodies "had an effect", why there was a correlation between heavenly bodies and professions but not character traits, why the state of the heavenly bodies was "inherited", and why it faded away and disappeared when birth records became more accurate and were performed mainly in hospitals.
Does the hypothesis of social bias sound far-fetched? First of all, it should be remembered that it is enough for one birth hour out of 30 to be updated to create the effect. Furthermore, is the astrological explanation less forced?
What is more likely, that social beliefs will create a slight bias among a very limited population, or that only a few celestial bodies will affect only certain professions of only a handful of people, for only a certain period of time, and without any mechanism possible by everything known in science so far?
Geoffrey is careful to point out that, after all, it's just a theory. Although it fits nicely with all the peculiarities discovered in the data, until a new experiment is carried out in which it will not be possible to falsify the time of birth, this is only speculation.
Some believe that in light of the state of affairs there is no point in investing any more in researching the Mars effect. Others believe that an astrological truth or a scientific revolution may be hiding behind the findings, and that the interpretation should continue to be investigated.
I am in favor!
79 תגובות
Spring.
Regarding the chemical spraying, see the following study:
The document was finally formulated by Peter Freika, head of the Belfort Group and former mayor of the city of Auvergne in Belgium.
All emphases in the points above are mine.
The full document:
chemtrails research – Belfort Group
Through Google you will find the research look at it let the professionals research it.
Does mechanical engineering apply science? Science from what year exactly? Application at all does not require an in-depth understanding like research.
I am a physicist and mathematician by training and I have been involved in the development of advanced technologies in a wide variety of fields. I am currently doing ultrasound. Objectivity is in the mind of those who deal with natural phenomena with technological tools, and I do attach a lot of importance to it.
I don't look down on others, I look down on you because you deserve it. Trolls are to be despised.
You don't show any "beyond" options, you ramble in generalities without answering the matter to anyone. You repeatedly avoid answering me specifically about the connection between astrology and the Greek gods. When you answer something you might start to deserve to be treated with more respect.
Submit a link. I'm sure this is an innocent experiment that you make as monstrous as all the exaggerations of the sites you like.
איציק
I'm the last one who despises science, I'm the one who applies it (mechanical engineering) while you engage in scorning others.
While you are grouping, I also show the additional possibilities that are parallel or beyond what science can quantify.
It's hard for me to understand why someone who talks about science with such disgust even comes to this site to read. Trolls is the common explanation.
Abby G., does your astrological chart mean you are a troll or does it completely fail to describe your character? Was there even a Greek or Roman god with his own star that describes the effects of trolls or is astrology unable to describe such deviations?
Spring.
You are avoiding the truth before you have looked deeply.
You are avoiding the truth before you have looked deeply.
For my part, you will be called Yotzemach, not the name is important, but the content, and you constantly do not listen to what you are told and continue to infuse your Torah consisting of endless nonsense that you read in a different way or in a conspiracy where they are angry at someone who dares to ask for reliance on facts.
On the science site, the facts are first and foremost the deciding factor. and from which the opinion is derived, whether in the field of global warming, astrology, etc. Those for whom the truth is a red sheet, are welcome to leave the site and go read the sites that are convenient for them. This is the meaning of democracy, not to require the scientist to become another truth or from another truth to become the scientist.
And the threat of troll violence is also a distinct troll characteristic.
Spring
Hand on heart, what is your real problem that my name is not Itzik or Michael Rothschild?
When there really are no answers but frustration that science is limited and repeats mantras based on theories that are disproved from time to time by a better scientist then you call it a troll - my father you can bring wood and put me on it and burn it or really more simply with the push of a button make me disappear from the site - just remember that I I will always be able to access this site if desired.
Happy Harut today is the first candle of Hanukkah.
Thanks to the freedom of thought that the Maccabees had, they defeated the pigeons.
My father c. Do not flood the comments on each individual sentence. Read the site rules and understand that you have crossed the line of being a troll. Even so, I can say one thing about the content of your comments: I can upload intelligent articles to the site, I just can't force the readers to become smarter after reading them.
Scorpio
You are so right that you are collapsing all the wonderful studies that Gilead copied for science from anti-astrological sources.
Gilad, I don't agree with you.
The differences between the maps and the different women I was in a relationship with were very different.
Different aspects were only if that specific woman and not with others.
And I emphasize and say that the map made something clear to me that I noticed but not with such clarity even before the results of the map.
That is, after I began to see that the map is indeed correct (testing the reality of the relationship against my projection)
And I started listening to her - the map saved me a lot of headache and heartache
monument
"I'm just saying there's nothing more to it than the personal interpretation you give it"
You wrote correctly, because no one is looking for your interpretation, those of the astrologer about him (the client).
scorpio,
I have no doubt that it shed light.
I bet you that even if you randomly add sentences from this site they will shed just as much light on your life and your relationship.
This is exactly the idea of "pulling" any random ad cards or tarot.
I'm not saying it doesn't help personally, I'm just saying there's nothing more to it than the personal interpretation you give it.
Scorpio
Nice, but remember everything listed on websites and books is general and a basic prototype only and not something really concrete. For something more concentric, a match map must be made between two people in order to focus the match
An astrological tool that I found effective for me is relationship astrology - maps of people
And what is the interplay between the two.
For me, I could confirm the map when she spoke clearly about something that I already felt existed in the relationship
But it was not described so clearly.
That is, a tool that sheds light on something I recognize that already exists specifically with that partner
Confirms to me the authenticity of the astrology method
You can try it here:
http://www.astro.com/cgi/atxgen.cgi?btyp=acx&
You have to click on the first blue link, and when at the end of entering your aserological details you reach the description of the map, of course you have to do Edit
to one of the boxes and enter the details of the mutual partner
When I decided to enter into long-term relationships with women it helped me and made it a lot easier
monument
Do what you want you stubborn scientist
Astrology does not need you and any other scientist to confirm or disprove its method. She was meant to be
Only for those who feel good with her and think she can renew him, improve his life, strengthen him in situations of weakness and indecision.
You can start focusing on the skipping of letters, it's already something that has the possibility of scientific testing that you love and cling to with your eyes closed
I have no problem in principle with the judgment of others. The problem is that there is nothing to compare.. If, for example, there are sentences written in the report that are true for everyone, everyone will agree that there is a 100% match, which of course will not say anything.
You can prepare 10 horoscopes for 10 different people, and let anyone you want in the world try to identify which horoscope belongs to whom, I think it's a fair test, and I don't see why such a test would cause things to stop working.
.
monument
As soon as you get a score of no less than 80% of the people it means that you got such a score from people who think like that, do you doubt what these people say then you are in trouble with yourself.
As long as you hang out in company X that knows you based on your behavior patterns, you will always receive feedback from them accordingly and therefore you will also know in advance what the company thinks of you when you enter the room where they are sitting and see you, the interaction between the people who know each other is based on the mutual absorption of behavior patterns In many situations, science does not really have the tools to understand how the human mind understands what its senses perceive about the behavior of the person in front of it.
Gilad, as long as you insist on putting astrology into a laboratory test, it will fade away and disappear before your eyes, like the quanta identified by the observer and not by the measuring instrument that tries to define its movement (ray or wave)
Moshe, I trust you that if you read the 3rd article in the series, you understand why this test is flawed.
I can tell you about a very detailed report, several pages long, that someone wrote, and walked around with for years, each time changing the luck to which the things are attributed, or even saying the things as a "caller" or a palm reader.
He never received a score lower than 80 by people who judged him.
You can read about it in this book: http://www.thecoldreadingbook.com/
A recommended and enlightening book.
Moses
First of all, there is no need to pay a lot of money and certainly not the best of your money - but the freedom of choice allows you to do what is best for you.
Take what you get from the astrologer Approach your 10 friends who sell you well Share the report with them
And ask them to rate how accurate they think it is. Do not give them any hint affecting either yourself and certainly not your intention to deny or confirm the level of accuracy of the report.
This is the only option that comes close to something that can be called an objective-subjective test.
Avi G., I may go to a professional astrologer next week and pay him the best of my money to get a professional astrological forecast from him. How can I objectively check afterwards if his prediction is really correct or if it was just a wild guess?
Is there any way to check this?
I would love to hear your opinion on the matter, thank you.
monument
When you start putting words in my mouth it looks suspicious.
Where did I write that astrology has an objective grip on reality.
Your ramblings reach a dead end, please reset and come back to reality. Go meet with Yoav Ben Dov
that you received his formulations and from which you can upgrade the articles you published.
You are talking about blind faith when you do not understand astrology at all and you are relying on a serial researcher who tries to tattoo astrology and believes every word he says that astrology is a crow flower.
Which readers are you talking about, aren't there between 6 and 10 readers who repeat themselves and bore themselves until something comes along that breaks their routine and brings a little life.
Continue on your way according to your image. You are still young and fascinating challenges have been prepared for you.
Israel,
https://www.hayadan.org.il/astrology-in-a-trail-0012116/#comment-319275
Sarah? The situation is much worse than I thought...
My father c.
I presented the findings as objectively as I could. You have fortified yourself in your positions and that is legitimate.
I made a distinction between objective and subjective astrology, especially to avoid unnecessary arguments, but it didn't go down well with you. You insist that astrology has an objective grip on reality in the face of a complete lack of evidence to support your position.
Throughout the hundreds of messages that have been exchanged here, you have not brought even one study that shows a different picture, you have not been able to formulate even one clear and defined claim that you think can be tested and tipped the scales one way or the other.
You yourself say that no matter what I say, and what you agree (!!!), the astrological truth will remain intact.
That's called (blind) faith, and I'm not going to deal with that. Because you can't.
I hope there were some other readers who internalized the things and maybe even changed their minds a little, in view of the multiple evidences (or at least know where to turn when they need evidences).
Happy Hanukkah!
monument
You expect that if you insist, as in a mantra, on your position, which is derived from ignorance and understanding, but only from some research that you are locked onto that has an unequivocal purpose of creating disdain for astrology, then you will know that even if I, my daughter, or anyone else agrees with what you said, it will not change the truth in the method the astrological.
Yoav's position is acceptable to you or not it doesn't matter either.
You didn't find a connection between the astrological symbols and reality, you probably didn't search well. You can also mix and make a salad and the results and effectiveness will not change for you. You probably did not mix well.
You can ask him and ask him to go to the site and speak his mind.
simple (common sense in question)
When astrology touches the media it does the field a disservice, astrology like psychology should be solid, personal, intimate, helpful and not populist.
Father, you continue to ignore what is convenient for you to ignore.
Do you deny the connection between astrology and the Greek and Roman gods?
My argument is that the origin of this belief is in the pagan religions. If you deny it, I'll be happy to bring you evidence for the majority. If you do not deny, you should explain to us how you attribute to these beliefs correctness and further talk about the Jewish God in connection with them.
I asked him a million times and some of the times I changed to my father C. But he insists, I explained to him that it misleads people into thinking that I am suddenly against science.
Girl, you can't do that. My father, my second father, my third father. They are all my father.
So my father will become Abi A so that we know who they mean.
It also fits the poem I'm writing about the war of liberation: Avi C, Avi A, Avi B.
R.H
https://www.hayadan.org.il/astrology-in-a-trail-0012116/#comment-319241
I want Sarah of course.
Actually it is excessive. Also in Freudian terms.
Abi C,
How do you turn the creator? Who denies what science finds? Who denies evolution Who denies the Great Metz?
After all, I am the one who humbly accepts what is revealed. I told you already, prove to me that astrology works and you won't find a more pious astrologer than me.
Do you think quantum mechanics is easy to get for example? After all, no one really knows what is going on there, but since the results of the experiments repeat and repeat, it is impossible not to accept them.
Do you think it is easy to accept evolution? A cold world that develops as an automatic mechanism without any compassion or desires? After all, it is much easier to believe in a merciful and generous God who runs the world justly. However, as of today, all the evidence shows that the world is governed by the theory of evolution and we have no choice but to accept it.
Isaiah Leibovich already claimed: "The truth is forced upon us" has nothing to do with what we want or don't want.
So really have a relaxing day. You are not a stupid person, I suggest that you think quietly about the things and what Gilad here shows, read more on the subject, and even if you have been involved in astrology for 35 years, be honest with yourself and reach conclusions based on your brain and understanding and not on your gut feeling or desires.
Yea daughter
Yoav Ben Dov's definition is acceptable to me - it is a definition of subjective astrology.
I'm just adding, in light of the research done:
"No connection was found between the metaphorical symbols on which astrology is based and reality."
and sharpens the meaning of it:
"Astrology would probably be just as effective even if we mixed all the meanings currently attributed to the elements in it among themselves."
that's it.
Is that acceptable?
Do you want me to ask Ben Dov if the additions to his definition are acceptable to him? Avi?
I will ask him. No problem.
But it is clear what will happen if he agrees with me.
Later you will come and say that he is not an authority in the field at all. And don't really understand astrology, so it doesn't matter what he says.
Right?
1.. Astrology has about as much truth in it, as Kabbalah reading in coffee, calling all kinds, in ancestors and other contracts and delusions. Is there a serious person who is going to conduct a real and lengthy study on all of these - let alone astrology?
2. At the end of every year, in every country, all astrologers publish their predictions for the next year, in which they indicate what will happen to the country, to this or that leader, to people with this or that luck. Their "predictions" matched him by percentages no greater than a guess. Remember that in the twenty years before Hafez Asad's death, about half of all astrologers predicted his death towards the new year, and precisely when he finally breathed his last, no one expected it.
2. Almost every newspaper in the world publishes an astrological "forecast" every day about the people of each zodiac sign. If you take a hundred newspapers from different countries - will you find any similarity in their predictions for each of the zodiac signs?
3. Today's astrologers refer to all the planets (including Pluto) in their predictions, and astrologers about 200 years ago gave predictions without knowing about the existence of Neptune, Uranus and Pluto. Were their predictions correct? And if so how?
4. Would it be a mistake to say that the same Goklin who published so many books (probably bestsellers) did quite a bit "for his home"?
My opinion is that astrology is based on science to about the same extent as the program on channel 10 "Time of Mysticism"
It features 3-5 people including an astrologer, a coffee reader, a spirit communicator, a cabalist, etc., who with abysmal seriousness "predict" the present and the future on almost every subject.
monument.,
You asked me to refer to the definition, so out of politeness I'm just telling you: that I don't like definitions, in any field. and why? For example: a chair. A structure that is by all accounts solid. And yet there are many types of chairs, and any definition of one will affect the other.
You quoted here from Yoav Ben Dov's website. Well: what's wrong with the definition he gave to astrology?
Personally, I don't like wars. And in Meshat (the new word is nice...) I will only mention that my biggest war was with my family, back then, when I was studying... and they also understood slowly - slowly that this was not nonsense, and today they are my best advocates of honesty.
May everyone have a happy, enlightening and fattening Hanukkah.
R. H. Actually you are saying what you are, not what I am, because I relate to life exactly as I understand it according to the environmental reality which is wide, complex, wild, surprising, amazing and beautiful.
Since it's already 60 years behind me in trips around the world twice and engineering work (planning and building precise tools - highlights) and at the same time also deals in fields beyond (astrology) so I'm not looking to be specifically against or negate these trying to show that in life there are often, if not always, two sides to the coin
Spinoza once said that God and nature are two aspects of the same thing.
Have a fascinating and calm day.
I'm on my way home.
My father c
R.H
You are good at only looking for the negative, maybe read everything that is written in Wikipedia on the subject?
And also read to the end what I wrote on the subject above.
Abi C,
Do you know the difference between us? that if the skipping of letters in the Bible or any other phenomenon were statistically proven, I and others would agree, believe and try to understand what it means and what the mechanism is behind it.
You and your ilk, on the other hand, will not agree to accept that there is nothing in Zev or astrology or numerology even if they put before you wires and wires of proofs. Therefore this debate is pointless and unnecessary.
monument
I'm sorry if you didn't understand me
"And they work (works) and are accurate"
Yoav explicitly says that the heavenly bodies are an integral part of the counseling process and it is true that there are several schools of thought in this regard
But the heavenly bodies are the basis.
What I said is that if you manage to influence Yoav to change his understanding of the method that works (not an objective fact) and is even accurate when a professional astrologer with many years of experience can come, then I will salute you.
I read what Yoav wrote about me, it is absolutely acceptable. I suppose he can shed light on this topic and other topics better and more accurately.
Try to interview him for the benefit of the site.
Abi C,
Go read how they published in Statistical Science the exact same thing in the book War and Peace.
http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%93%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%92%D7%99_%D7%90%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94#cite_note-11
Abi, you completely confused me about Yoav Ben Dov.
"Why are you trying to build irrational assumptions for the astrological method" - I am trying to build rational assumptions for the astrological method.
"If you manage to change his perception regarding the mystical teachings that are based on heavenly bodies and numbers, etc. and that they are true and accurate" - where does he say that they are accurate facts? He says exactly the opposite.
A few paragraphs down in the same link I sent you it says:
"Therefore, it seems to me that it would not be correct to call astrology a science."
Or I didn't understand you.
Do you agree with his definition of astrology?
You haven't answered me yet.
The skipping of letters is only relevant for the Bible.
There is no book in the world in which the skipping of letters expresses something of real value that is based on reality in the past, present and future, except in the Bible, and there is plenty of evidence for this that has been tested over the years.
The idea behind the skipping of letters is: to find a concept (word) that by skipping letters is equal to the letters of the word, you can find a relevant topic that refers to a word with an important meaning.
Just skipping letters can be found in all kinds of books, maybe even in every book, but the relevant connection between the content of the section in which the skipping appears with the concept (word, name) exists only in the Bible.
Israel by the way https://www.hayadan.org.il/astrology-in-a-trail-0012116/#comment-319192
As far as I know, but maybe you know better, Bibi was not murdered in 96.
What would old Freud say about you???
Israel,
Regarding the skipping method, a lot of work has been done and the material is easy to find.
Gilad, maybe you should write a post about it?
They showed, for example, that in Moby Dick or in War and Peace you can find no fewer things than in the Bible.
It was not for nothing that the authors of the letter skips received the Ignobel Prize.
monument
You just gave an excerpt from Dr. Ben Dov's website, so why are you trying?
Build irrational assumptions for the astrological method.
Perhaps if you have already entered Yoav Ben Dov's website he will be happy to talk to you at eye level because he happens to be a scientist as well but with broad horizons if you manage to change his perception of the mystical teachings that are based on the bodies of the heavens and the numbers etc.
תיקון
"things that happen"
my father
Once it is discovered that God exists, it will still remain to be understood which processes take place without his intervention, that is, within the framework of the laws he created, for example: evolution, the formation of stars and galaxies, etc...
So we will make a separation between the things he interferes with and things that read within the framework of the laws he created (laws referring to gravity, electromagnetic, weak and strong nuclear).
Then maybe we'll try to examine what God is, if there are more? Is he single? Did he create more things? How was it created?
And I don't think that's the big question scientists are dealing with.
Thinking of something super intelligent above all that created the world, is very superficial and fits the thinking of the primitive man.
The answer to this question will be much more "weird" than you think.
Avi,
I asked some fairly specific questions, and you, as usual, answer me with less and less specific questions.
I don't think there are many scientists who are debating whether there is a God. They are bothered by other things. And it is not clear to me how the existence of God will explain many processes in nature and nuclear research.
I suggest we leave God out of the discussion for now.
All in all, I was asking if you could define one definite claim, about something, that astrology can say about everyday life. This sounds to me like a pretty modest request from someone who works in the field.
And in addition - the second question - how many astrologers do you think would agree to sign the latest definition of astrology - Ben-Dov's with my additions?
two questions. that's it.
monument
You scientists turn life into determinism and mechanics without freedom of choice.
There is no such animal that can define something human in four or five essential characteristics.
The human being is made up of many essential characteristics and each removal of a characteristic changes the person.
monument
Can you prove that there is no God? This is the big question that scientists are debating. Because if there is a God
Science will be happy because it will immediately understand many processes in nature and nuclear research.
monument
I suggested a different wording, so don't attach my name to the wording that might suit you.
Bet-Ya isher strength and every word is in the rock.
You understand that on a site that claims to be an improvement of science
Sinful of boasting and an anti-scientific approach based on
The mental/emotional need to calm their confused feeling between seeing life through the microscope hole
to situations of life uncertainty on the other side.
Heisenberg understood this principle a long time ago "the more precisely the position of an electron is known, the less precisely its momentum is known (and vice versa)"
And ask the young scientists to calm down because there is a limit to the ability of science to prove.
Here is what Dr. Ben Dov had to say on the subject. In the end I seem to have come up with a pretty similar setup.
http://bendov.info/heb/mys/astrolog.htm
"Astrology is a practice of counseling and guidance, based on symbolic connections between the movements of the planets and events and processes that occur in human life. It is usually a process in which the astrologer calculates the position of the stars in relation to the Earth at a certain moment, which has a strong symbolic meaning for the consultant (or "client"). For example, it can be the moment of birth, a moment that marks the beginning of a certain activity (such as signing a contract), or even the moment when the question that is the subject of the consultation was asked. From the resulting chart (the "astrological map" or "horoscope"), and with the help of symbolic and metaphorical connections that depend on the method by which he works, the astrologer produces a verbal story that relates to the life and question of the consultee.
From such a point of view, the test of astrology is not in the existence of a one-way relationship between a prediction and its realization (similar to the concept of physical prediction), but in the effect that the act of counseling has on the life of the questioner, on his ability to find useful meanings and patterns in his life story, etc. From such a point of view, the survival of astrology for thousands of years and beyond huge cultural differences shows that, in general, the stories it produces are indeed seen by the customers as a useful tool for guidance and dealing with situations of uncertainty."
Or in short, what was defined in the first article as "subjective astrology".
My father C, my daughter,
What is the percentage of astrologers who work in Israel, in their opinion, who would be willing to sign such a definition +
1) An admission that no connection has ever been found between the metaphorical symbols on which astrology is based and reality.
2) that astrology would be equally effective if we mixed all the meanings currently attributed to the elements in it among themselves.
3) That everything begins and ends with the personal interpretation that the client gives to the things he hears?
Avi,
I don't understand why you throw the ball back at me every time I try to get one definite claim out of you,
About something, that astrology can say about everyday life.
After all, it is not possible that there is not even one tendency, a weak influence, that can be pointed out.
You define what you want. Choose what is most obvious. most distinctly.
Give a set of terms if you prefer.
something!?
Hi Batya,
What do you think of the following definition of astrology, which is based on attempts made to formulate something agreed with Avi C above:
"Astrology is a mystical theory designed to give meanings and guidance to its clients on the basis of metaphorical symbols, any connection between them and external reality has never been empirically found (despite many attempts to discover such a connection). According to the astrologers, there is in principle no possibility of finding a connection to the external reality in any way because of the enormous complexity of the Torah and the many internal contradictions within it, contradictions that only a skilled astrologer knows how to resolve in a face-to-face meeting with the client, through discussion with him, or alternatively only the client is able to clarify from the many details offered In front of him are those he feels are relevant to him. Experience shows that there are people who feel that astrological advice has helped them in life."
I would appreciate it if you would comment, and if you have a problem with this definition, state your objection point by point.
monument
The options I described were a small example out of many more options.
At the same time, these possibilities are also suitable for a combat commander, an engineer, a scientist in the field of mechanics, an athlete in the fields of short-term effort, and more
That's why I try to explain and probably fail that astrology consists of almost endless situations and intuitive feelings that must be taken into account.
Gilad, you will be content with the articles you wrote, they in themselves will open the mind of those who are interested and beyond that you will be blocked, only you will really want to study the subject.
Father what to do your reality is narrow and therefore you do not see most of these realities only through the bore of science is a micron in diameter.
Don't take it for granted you are in good company
I have read everything written in the series of articles, and I repeat that nothing was written here that was not previously known to astrologers, who know the field well. Astrology is indeed based on scientific data (the position of the stars in the sky), but from the moment the birth chart is drawn - science ends its role, and the analysis is done according to characteristics taken from mythology and translated into psychology. As someone who came to astrology specifically from science (agronomy) and has been working in the field professionally since 1986, I can state with certainty that astrology has helped and is helping many people who are looking for direction in life. There is a very large gap between scientists and people I will call "average". Those who stick to the "Ivory Tower", with studies that are suitable for mathematics or physics, and want to make decisions regarding those average people - will lose, due to many reasons, fundamentally psychological, which, to be honest, I don't have the strength to detail right now.
I don't understand, if they can't say anything whose meaning is clear enough and if the permission is always given,
Why not call it a relaxed conversation, coffee and cookies at the attractive price of NIS 300?
Father, aren't there very extreme situations whose meaning is relatively clear?
A terrible angle between the sun and the moon, or whatever you choose.
Your help in the experiment is to choose the most obvious and unambiguous situations.
Something you say about it - it must have an effect. Again, not 100% of course. But it must be that a group of people who have this element in their birth chart are on average something more than a group of people who don't have it in their birth chart.
This is your task, to bring something that can be decisive, if only at a certain point, if there is any basis for any claim. You understand the field, so you should bring the thing that is most decisive for you.
I only gave examples.
monument
In order for you to understand what the requirements of the research are, I will give you one example just to illustrate, and that too in the generality of the subject.
If the astrologer meets a surgeon and looks at his chart in order to come to the conclusion that he is engaged in the field
The astrological map should have the following options (there are more that I will not list here).
1. Every lucky person (there are 12 zodiac signs) whose horizon (affected by exact time of birth) is Aries, Aquarius, Scorpio, Virgo or Pisces.
2. Any lucky person (12 zodiac signs) whose horizon can be from one of the 12 zodiac signs and whose ruling star (horizontal star) is in the 6th or 10th house adjacent to the planet Mars or in harmony with it.
3. Any lucky person whose moon is in Aries when Aries is in the 6th or 10th house and Mars is in the 6th or 10th or 12th house
4. Star cluster including Mars in the 10th house when the 10th house is ruled by Pisces, Virgo, Aries, Scorpio, Leo.
And there are many more diverse possibilities that the canvas is too small to contain (by the way, this is not written in any astrology book because the astrologer taps into these situations from many years of experience in the field).
In my opinion, Kabbalah as a whole is paganism that disguises itself as part of Judaism. Almost everything there has origins in idolatry. But as you said beautifully: the apple did not fall far from the tree.
איציק
So that you could look at the Kabbalah books when you got out, just to see that the apple didn't fall far from the tree.
It is true that there is a lot more chatter of all kinds, but astrology also has a large and significant share there.
Father, in the imaginary world in which you live, all the conspiracy theories are right, all the pseudo-sciences have been proven, and just what to do, in objective reality it doesn't happen.
Israel do not get overly excited
It has already been proven by a number of professors of statistics and mathematics that there is something beyond coincidence in the skipping of letters in the Bible.
Besides, there is a huge gap between this method and the interpretation of the future.
monument.
I am looking at the book "The Biblical Code 2", which was published in 2002. The main prediction for his future is a world war and an atomic holocaust in 2006. (p. 261).
Even in the first book they hit a stamp, although I can't give exact details because I don't have the book. I just remember that they predicted the assassination of Bibi around 96, an atomic war in 2000 and other amazing accuracies
What's more, Lebanon B did break out in 2006.
My father c.
You can help the experiments a lot, without trying too hard, if you just formulate clear and well-defined claims that you believe to be true, which will form the basis of the studies.
example:
"Among professionals X there will be many more people than expected by chance, whose numerological number of their name is 5"
Or claims about adjustments between spouses, or adjustments to a residential address, whatever you like.
So now we come to a conclusion. Please tell us something that you think is true. even sometimes Only truer than chance.
I know very well what star and zodiac work is, as it is called.
Those who distort the concept and lie about its meaning are the Jews who followed this idolatry, like you.
Throughout the ages there were many in Judaism like you who followed the idols of the stars, and of course you will want this to happen to them by associating the powers of the stars with God. Astrology is pure idolatry, and Mars the god of war is an example that you obviously chose to ignore as usual.
Itzik, you always come back to cynicism, it doesn't glorify you, it diminishes you.
Even you don't know what is meant by working with stars and zodiac signs (it has already been said that silence is wisdom, silence is worth gold).
Hi Gilad
My charges are consistent throughout and do not blur at all.
Try to check with Ella Shania on this matter, maybe she can help. I'm not professional enough in numerology, although sometimes I use it for cross-references with astrology in the phase of characterizing the client.
I myself would love to carry out research that would raise the profile of the mystical and scientific teachings, but it is such a long and complicated process that one must invest time and resources in, and I am not built for that.
But those who want to pick up the gauntlet will surely discover something fascinating and interesting and teach a lot, I'm ready to lend a hand to those who do pick up the gauntlet.
In any case, I invite each and every one to my home to discuss these and other issues. The coffee is already heating up...
My father, "that she is divine" says it all. In Judaism it is called "worship of stars and zodiac signs", i.e. worship of idols.
The origin of astrology is in the work of the stars as gods. Funny that these ancient beliefs still exist.
I wrote in response in a previous article about the connection between the red color of Mars and the color of blood and therefore to the god of war Mars, and with it the qualities of blood violence and war. If you really take seriously the connection between the red color of a planet and blood, then you need a deep and quick soul-searching.
Abi, I will inform you that I have already looked through about 10 numerology books, and corresponded with some.
Not one of the books or practitioners in the field could point me to even one poor study that ever tested this. And what is even more interesting, some numerologists publicly state that they have conducted studies on the subject.
Somehow, every time I ask to review them, it turns out that the studies are small, old, unavailable, did not try to test validity, and so on. None of them, of course, have ever been published anywhere.
And I join Camila's excited request,
Would you be interested in conducting a small experiment, which we will all agree to the terms of together, that will test even a small aspect of astrology, or for that matter - numerology?
I feel that your arguments are getting more vague as we progress..
monument
Numerology as astrology does not flourish. They have a lot in common. Numerology takes the relevant numbers associated with a certain person (date of birth / letters of the name) and builds a numerological map.
There is a lot of literature on the subject if you want to test its validity so a textbook learn what the method is so you can weigh things up.
As one digs deeper into the research of the truth, they discover that it is divine. There are many scientists who think this way with the understanding that the part cannot fit the whole like the screw in a car does not ask questions about the car (wheels, engine, driver, etc.)
Hi Camila
Do you happen to know a little more in depth what numerology is?
Know that this method is equivalent to astrology when each number (1, 2, 3...up to 9) is associated with a star in the solar system so that the differences between the two methods are really small, even here there is an intuitive effect on the therapist.
One of the first thanks to whom the method was developed was Pythagoras (I'm sorry if I offended something)
Abi C,
What a coincidence, just these days he is working on a research on numerology. Apparently the universe really is less random than it seems.
"Not that I have any illusions about numerology, even there it would be far-fetched..."
Speaking of which - has anyone come across a study regarding the validity of numerology? So far I haven't found anything. Apparently no one believed it was worth spending even one minute checking this...
But I'm ready.
Avi C, do you know a numerologist who is willing to help plan and/or perform an experiment that will test the validity of numerology?
Avi ,
This is the first time that your comment has any merit. Numerology is truly nonsense (perhaps even more so than astrology) and it is worth tracing the origins of the irrational belief in this charlatan method.
The suggestion regarding astrology that was offered to you in the past and which you consistently ignore is also good here, would you agree to conduct a controlled experiment in which the numbers of the date of birth and the values of the letters of the names of a number of test subjects are blindly given and we will test the ability to predict with their help what the character traits of those test subjects are according to predetermined criteria . It is understood that the prophecies should be such that they can be analyzed and not vague in the style of "generally positive character but sometimes there is a tendency to get angry". If in such an experiment the results show unequivocally that there is no predictive ability that exceeds what is expected from random success, would you then consider doubting the reliability of the method? I promise you that if the results show that there is a significantly higher predictability than random chance, then me and my colleagues will have no choice but to accept that there is indeed a connection (which I currently do not believe exists) between the numbers and the character. Maybe stop dodging and give a clear answer?
Thanks for the detailed but clear article, I really enjoyed it.
monument
The more and more I come across the articles based on unimaginative and flightless studies that almost all of them do not have in astrology, I am surprised again how much your desire, Gilad, is not to investigate the truth of the method, but rather to depend on lunatics who try at any cost, even to waste 8 years of fruitless research just to provide peace of mind of the researcher.
How about moving to scientific articles that deny numerology (the theory of numbers) that with the help of this method it is possible to explain a person's character according to the numbers of the date of birth and the values of the letters of his name.
If the effect did disappear after the XNUMXs, this is enough to rule out its independent existence (separate from cultural effects).
Well done !!!