Did the sages of Torah Israel know scientific secrets that were revealed only recently? Could it be that the big bang, the glaciers on the moons of Jupiter and other scientific facts were given by God when he passed on his teachings to the people of Israel? And if so, then why did the scientists have to discover it on their own in the first place?
Did the sages of Torah Israel know scientific secrets that were revealed only recently? Could it be that the big bang, the glaciers on the moons of Jupiter and other scientific facts were given by God when he passed on his teachings to the people of Israel? This time I bring you both an article and a podcast that I prepared and deal with these very topics. This podcast was created in response to a guest corner In episode 30 of Ran Levy's podcasts. The guest corner (which is very atypical, it should be noted!) was prepared by Mr. Victor Ben Ezra and in it he brought some examples from the book "The Conversion" written by Rabbi and convert Zamir Cohen. You should listen to the interesting part that deals with Arthur C. Clarke and also the guest corner of Victor Ben Ezra to get background for the podcast I made.
My name is Amnon Carmel and I am happy to take part in another guest corner on Ran Levy's excellent podcast. The guest corner for episode thirty was prepared by Mr. Victor Ben Ezra who contributes a lot of his time to this successful podcast. Ben Ezra brought up a rather interesting topic - the way in which the converts present the connection between science and the Torah. I would like to continue the discussion on this question.
Ben Ezra gives some classic examples of converts. Most of the points he raises come from a book called "The Reversal" by a convert known as Rabbi Zamir Cohen. Ben Ezra does an excellent job of presenting the original arguments in the way that converts do. The arguments presented in the book, and many of which were quoted in Ben Ezra's column, seemingly lead to the conclusion that the Torah and the Bible contain scientific secrets that have only recently been revealed by scientists. is that so? I would like to address these claims one by one.
Here's an interesting point to warm up the barrel: the ancient Jews from the days of the Bible were known for many things throughout history - thanks to their conquests, by establishing a religion based on one god against religions that were based on many gods, thanks to the Ten Commandments, the building of the Temple and thanks to several other things, but none They were not known for the advanced science and technology they created. If the Torah of Israel contains scientific truths, why didn't the Jews transcend the past and create technologically advanced cultures similar to what the Greeks, Romans, Polynesians, the Mayan culture or other peoples created? How is it that all the so-called "secrets" were discovered only after science had already discovered them?
Let's examine some of the principles used by converts to present their arguments:
First, choose some scientific topic. Now look for a short quote from the Bible that can be related in some way to this topic. A few general words will also do. Now add scientific proofs, stories about the history of science, scientific evidence for the topics you are talking about, numbers, formulas, names of professors and universities and in short anything that will make you sound like you have an idea of what you are talking about (even if you actually copy-pasted from Wikipedia) . Now add echo effects to the voice, and some mysterious sounds with deep bass, and you have a lecture that will turn some innocents into full-fledged "sneaks"!
The creation of the world and the big bang
Let's start with the first argument: the creation of the world. Cohen explains at length about the scientific world view that has prevailed since the time of the Greeks, about the galaxies, about the Hubble, the discovery of cosmic radiation, the expansion of the universe, the big bang, the calculations involved, discovery and all this while mentioning the names of many scientists, dates, numbers and other scientific data. It really sounds very impressive, and it is often true scientific data. But now is the time to ask what is the connection between these scientific data and the "Torah of Israel"? Then comes the concluding line, in which it is said that the proofs for the existence of the Big Bang...: "Provide conclusive scientific proof that the world was created!" Applause, mysterious bass sounds and move on to the next theme.
But wait - is there anything mentioned in the book of Genesis about the big bang? Is it written that God came out of a singular point from which the universe was created? Has anything been said about galaxies? About the complex chemical processes that accompanied the process? Maybe a word about cosmic radiation? no and no ! In the book of Genesis, an ancient Akkadian mythological story is presented, ancient versions of which were discovered in the mid-nineteenth century in a story called "The Exploits of Gilgamesh". It is told there about an almighty god who made hocus pocus, created plants, animals and man in only six days. It is true that this is called the "Creation Story", but there is not even the slightest connection between this story and the Big Bang. Maybe only the Jews tell the story of creation? no and no! The Egyptian creation story includes Ra - the father of the gods who created the world through his god children. In Greek mythology, the world was created out of chaos - first the earth (Gaia) and the sky (Uranus), followed by the rest of the animals and plants. Among the Incas, the creator god was called Vircocha and he created a world without sun, moon and stars and then improved it. These are just a few examples out of the thousands of myths from around the world that tell the story of creation. Do they also contain an ancient wisdom known only to the gods?
And now we must ask - what was the use of all the scientific stories, testimonies and numbers, if there is nothing between them and the Torah of Israel? The answer is that converts try to confuse the innocent with testimonies and numbers and in the end land on them a crushing sentence that has nothing to do with reality in an attempt to tie all this science to the Torah. What's even sadder is that there are enough innocent people who fall into the net.
Let's move on to the following example: in the story of creation it is stated that God differentiated between the water under the firmament and the water above the firmament. So far everything is true, it is indeed written in Genesis XNUMX verse XNUMX. But the converts already take one step further and add their own interpretation that the water above the sky is the water in space. In the Halacha it is written that the upper waters are superior to the lower waters, and that the upper waters are frozen like ice icicles. And again we come to the scientific part - explanations of the history of science, how the scientists in the past could not know about this, the story is told about the meteor that hit the Russian steppes at the beginning of the twentieth century, how much it weighed, where it came from, how many comets are there in the area from which this meteor came, how many There is water in these comets and how many Earths they can fill and explanations about spacecraft that discovered water in other stars in the solar system. And the conclusion - the amount of water on Earth is small compared to the amount of water in the universe. wow Bravo. really amazing. There is indeed more water in the universe than on Earth. But there are also more metals, there is much more hydrogen, helium and in fact there is more of any other substance in the universe than on Earth. Water is only a tiny particle of the universe. The ancients knew water, because it is a main and important substance on the earth, and from there they cast on the universe.
Here we are again witnessing a situation where an innocent verse is taken - "and a difference was made between the water under the sky and the water above the sky" and they dressed it up with different scientific stories. If I come to someone and tell him about the water above the sky, will he infer a thing and a half about the comets outside the solar system or about frozen oceans on the moons of Jupiter? Logic is lost when listening to the converts. If the Torah wanted to talk about comets or water in other stars, why weren't these stars specifically mentioned? Why wasn't there a more precise explanation? Write something about upper waters, and they could equally mean the water in the mountains, or the water in the clouds or maybe the water where the gods bathe in Olympus.
If these explanations are so unequivocal, how come not a single learned Jew stood up throughout history and brought explanations about the water in other planets. How is it that they suddenly discovered this important information after science discovered the water in the universe? If Jews have been reading and studying the Torah for thousands of years, how come they didn't recognize all this before?
Whale music, a bit of echo, and hop - here we moved to the next topic: stars. Again scientific explanations, names of professors, dates and interesting scientific information but without any relevance, and then the punch line - in the book of Deuteronomy it is written: "From the rain of the sky, drink water". And the interpretation: since it is not said from the rain of the clouds of the sky, then the reference is to the high sky, that is, to the outer space, and hence the reference is to the water in the meteors in the outer space. Say - are you serious? It says drink water from the rain of heaven - I was taught that the rain of heaven is rain, and it really contains water and you can really drink the water. How the hell did you get from here to water in asteroids in outer space?! Why distort the scriptures? With such a fictional interpretation, you can even find satanic messages when you play the songs of the beetles backwards... How can you expect people with minimal logic to accept such absurd and meaningless interpretations?
Mysterious music, waves and here is the next topic: the world is round
Here is a particularly favorite story of mine - the Zohar supposedly describes that the world is round. Let's assume that the translated and interpreted citations to the Zohar book are indeed correct. Detailed scientific explanations are coming again, this time including all kinds of ancient theories about giant turtles that hold the world and that the world is flat. Again we return to the claim that the scientists in the past could not know that the world is round. But what is it? One sentence later, they suddenly mention the Greek sages who claimed that the world is round. Hmmm…. Interesting - the Greek sages preceded the Zohar book. This completely sterilizes the whole idea of truth in the Torah (by the way, the Zohar is not really the Torah, but it is). Can we conclude from this that Zeus is real? Should we start offering sacrifices to the gods on Olympus? I'm sure the rabbis will be disappointed to hear that before the Zohar there were Greek philosophers who claimed that the earth was a sphere. In fact, Pythagoras learned the claim about the sphericity of the earth from his Egyptian teachers, while the belief that the earth is flat generally stems from the Indian and Babylonian religion and has always been controversial, much like the Jewish story of creation. This passage from the Zohar perhaps shows that the sages of Israel were in the right school, but they have no monopoly on this knowledge. The hypothesis about the sphericity of the earth was a hypothesis that has been nested in the hearts of many sages for thousands of years, and it is not unique to Judaism in any way. And we must go back and ask - if the Book of Zohar really revealed to the Jews the secret of the round world, why didn't the Jews go out in ships to circumnavigate the world, to conquer new territories , and find treasures, like the Europeans did when they realized that the world is round?
Then we come to the conclusion and the most scandalous conclusion - the only way in which the sages of Israel could know these scientific secrets is the existence of a supernatural superior force that designed and created the universe and passed its secrets to the people of Israel. Neither secrets nor shoes, neither coats nor pants - there are no scientific secrets in the Bible, and even if some true facts are mentioned there, other nations have almost always discovered them before. We must not forget that the ancient knowledge of astronomy and science was not negligible at all. Since the dawn of humanity, people have followed the stars and the world around them and studied it. The vast knowledge accumulated over tens of thousands of years allowed the ancients to know a great deal about the world - much more than most people think. At the time the Bible was written, there were already large empires in the world, agriculture flourished, and like them commerce and industry, they processed metals, leather and other materials and built impressive buildings. Vague and general sentences that mention the separation of upper water from the lower or sentences like "drink water from the rain of the sky", do not contain hidden secrets. There is nothing here but a collection of lies by people whose interest is to convert as many people as possible.
Make no mistake - unlike the vague quotes we have mentioned so far, the Torah knows how to be clear and explicit. In the Torah, the Bible, and the Mishnah, many embarrassing mistakes are very clearly indicated, from which it is clear that whoever wrote the Torah, had no idea about science, and certainly did not come close to the knowledge of modern science.
Embarrassing mistakes
A particularly embarrassing example of this can be found in a so-called divine decree that is mentioned in the Book of Desert in the chapter "Nesha". This is an apparently unequivocal test designed to allow men to find out if their woman is cheating on them with another man. The test goes like this: the suspicious man brings (or more likely - drags) his wife to the high priest. The priest takes a clay vessel, fills it with water and mixes in it dirt that he collects from the floor of the tabernacle. He puts the suspected woman in a particularly humiliating position, pulls out her hair and orders her to drink the mud water. The woman of course must obey and say after drinking the mud "Amen and Amen". If she farts after drinking the mud water, then she is unfaithful and it is likely that in those days her sentence would be death by stoning. Make no mistake, this is not just a custom mentioned in the Torah, but an explicit divine command. That is, God himself will make those unfaithful women fart. I swear I'm not making this up.
Other mistakes, no less embarrassing, can be found in the Oral Torah and the knowledge of sages. For example, it is claimed that lice are created from dirt and human sweat. Sages emphasized the matter, and although they were aware of the lice eggs, they claimed that it was a different kind of creeper, and not the eggs from which lice hatch. The Rambam also supported this opinion when we warned of eating (and I quote): "The vermin that emerge from the rotten ones." He goes on to explain that "the crawling creep is the crawling creep that emerges from the rotten ones that will not give birth to its like". Increase and do in the Mishnah, where it is mentioned in Tractate Chulin that the mice are also created spontaneously, as can be learned from the verse: "...I will bring out a mouse that is half flesh and half earth, where there is no cow or rabba". Rashi interprets this and explains that "there is a species of mouse that is not a cow and a rabbi, but was created by itself from the earth." This is the place to remind the listeners that contrary to these strong opinions, no living thing is created by itself. Mice are not made from soil, lice are not made from sweat and fleas are not made from dirt. It is interesting that the converts choose to ignore these quotes.
Here are some more interesting facts from the sources dealing with biology: The Gemara mentions wolves, lions and cats as animals with venom, and hence they are prey and are not kosher for food. But as we know, these animals have no venom. In some places it is stated that the heart has 3 chambers, but everyone knows today that the heart has 4 chambers (or cavities). In addition, we can learn from the Gemara that the blood only fills the left side of the heart and not the right, while it is clear that the blood flows on both sides of the heart. If we continue with matters of biology, we will find that the Sages specifically stated that the trachea splits into the lung, liver and heart, even though it is known that the trachea leads to the lungs only. Sages determined the gestation time of the animals as follows: "The wolf, the lion, the bear, the tiger, the cheetah, the elephant, the monkey, and the kippo for three years." Sages also stated that the snake's gestation period is seven years. It is clear to everyone that there is not a shred of truth in these assertions either. In contrast to the quotes brought by the repentant, these are precise assertions that are not ambiguous. No interpretation is needed to understand that the Torah of Israel is simply wrong in these cases.
Here is a quote from Leviticus 6,000:XNUMX: "And the rabbit, because it lives on a mountain and does not spread its hoof, is unclean to you." And the hare, because it is a living virtue and a hoof, not a spread, is impure to you." But as you know, the rabbit and the rabbit do not rummage at all! This argument confuses many rabbis who try to find different excuses for the matter. One of the common approaches to such embarrassing issues is, of course, denial. The converts simply say that when the Torah says rabbit, it is not really referring to the rabbit we know today, but to other animals, but history proves to us that the meaning of the word has not changed over the generations, and hence this argument is out of the question (and does not solve the problem of the rabbit). This is reminiscent of other perplexing claims by apostates who try to reconcile the creation story with the unequivocal fact that the world has existed for much, much longer than XNUMX years. Some simply claim that the meaning of the word "day" in the creation story is not really "day" but perhaps a million or a billion years. After all, the biblical writer knew how to express his opinions well over many books and in precise, beautiful and detailed Hebrew. Why should the meaning of these words be different from their meaning in any other sense and in any other chapter of the Torah? Maybe the word God means Zeus? Maybe the word bara means popcorn?
I repeat and emphasize that all the examples I have given here unequivocally contradict the science. This is not an interpretation, or general phrases that can be understood in several ways, but rather establishing unequivocal facts that have no trace of truth in them. These examples are just a few examples out of many false assertions in the so-called holy Torah of Israel. Is it possible that God was not present in science classes? Is it possible that he is not familiar with the faucets of the world he allegedly created?
which is pluto
And finally, I would like to share with you the secrets of science hidden in the book "Aia Pluto" written by Leah Goldberg. This is an ancient tradition and only today are scientists coming to an understanding that was known to the writers of "Aia Pluto" more than fifty years ago.
First the story of creation and the end of the world as hinted in the first verses of the book. These verses contain within them the story of the creation of the world and the creation of man. While scientists grapple with the question of where we came from, God chose to summarize the creation of the world in his popular book - "Aia Pluto".
In chapter 1957, verses 3.6 and 1924, it is stated that "Pluto was a puppy from Kibbutz Megiddo. It has everything: soup and bone." Since it is not specified that this is chicken soup, the reference here is to the ancient soup that contained the beginning of life. While the book Aya Pluto was written more than fifty years ago, in 1968, the reference to the ancient Mark here is ahead of its time. The primordial soup theory explains how the first replicating cells were created which led to the creation of more and more complex organisms which led to evolution and ultimately to the creation of man. The primordial soup theory refers to a period about XNUMX billion years ago, a time when the earth cooled and became a planet. In XNUMX, Professor Alexander Ivanovich Oparin (OPARIN) claimed that the ancient atmosphere at the beginning of the earth's life contained the building blocks for the creation of the first organisms. These theories have been tested and many proofs of their existence have been found. The bone also plays an important role in the creation of man - bones are of enormous importance in the evolutionary development of life in the world. Professor Raminosh Haminoski from Shekar University proved in XNUMX that the bones allowed bony fish to appear and these led to a significant breakthrough in biology. Without the bones, it was not possible for large organisms to develop outside of water, and hence the secret of life lies in the development of bones. The northern secrets in the book Aia Pluto do not lie. How could the creators of the book know about scientific findings that were proven only many years after "Ia Pluto" was written?
Another example lies in chapter 1900 in verses 1926 and 1957: "And what is the answer? The frog replies to Pluto: Koo Koo!". The search for the answer to the essence of existence has troubled man since the dawn of his existence. For thousands of years man has been studying his environment and trying to understand the essence of matter and the world. The dilemmas facing these philosophers and scientists since the dawn of history are given meaning by the answer of the wise frog who knows the secrets of the universe. The words "line line" allude here to the quantum theory, which scientists have only in the last few years come to terms with. First the study of quantum was in XNUMX by Professor Max Planck who published a theory that explains the emission of the spectrum of black bodies. In XNUMX the work of Professor Werner Heisenberg, Erwin Schrödinger and others found mathematical expressions for quantum physics. In recent years, scientists have succeeded in creating quantum computing, the computational potential inherent in which is enormous. A quantum computer can relatively easily crack the most complex encryptions that stand as an obstacle to today's normal computing. While the book Aia Pluto was written in XNUMX, quantum computing is the product of scientific research in the last decade only, and with considerable delay it should be pointed out in front of the northern knowledge in the holy book Aia Pluto.
I will give a final example from chapter XNUMX, verse XNUMX: "The cow answers, I produce milk..." The Norse creation story tells the story of a cow named Audumbla who created the first man by slowly licking the ice that then covered the entire world and revealed the first man to the world's air. It was her milk that nourished the first man and allowed humanity to develop and take over the world. The milk also refers to the Milky Way galaxy which for thousands of years was considered the entire universe. How can this amazing scientific knowledge contained in the book Ia Pluto be reconciled? No other solution can be found except that "Ia Pluto" was written by a divine source who encrypted important scientific secrets in it.
Did you get the hint? Don't fall for the lies of the converts. They lie to your face and do it in not very smart ways. It can be stated unequivocally that the Torah of Israel does not necessarily encode hidden scientific truths. And here is a final quote from Professor Einstein (whom the repentant people also lie about when they say he was religious, or repented before his death - these are all lies). Einstein said: "There are only two infinite things - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe."
On the same topic on the science site
(This article is taken from Amnon Carmel's blog which deals with futurism, technology, science and more)
700 תגובות
A demagogic article that contains distortions and distortions and does not mention critical parts of what is written in the book, is decorated with unnecessary mocking statements (which do not make it particularly true), and all this without starting to talk about the explicit mistakes in it. People may interpret the confident and condescending style as an indicator of the correctness of the scripture, when I am sure that with even a superficial reading of the book and access to the appropriate Torah information they would not bat an eyelid in front of the article. Fortunately, Rabbi Zamir Cohen deviated from his practice and wrote a response to the article so that he cannot be accused of evasion.
https://www.hidabroot.org/article/102428
And if, with due respect to the author of the article and various commenters, it is possible to make a comment, the attitude shown towards the Torah of Israel and the sages of Israel is inappropriate and humiliating. And with your honor's forgiveness, I recommend that you change it and remove any trace of it, because it does not show superiority one way or another, but may show an attempt to condescend, which you are certainly not trying to do. Certainly when throughout history and today there are many observant Jews, who certainly could and can think and doubt just like the greatest atheist, although perhaps there are people who are quite comfortable dismissing them with such and other excuses that certainly do not apply, God bless you, to those who raised them.
have a good day.
Read Rabbi Zamir's response to the author:
https://www.hidabroot.org/article/102428
A pile of nonsense that seems to burn. Your description of who is deviant has nothing to do with anything and apart from using the words of a kindergarten child there is nothing in them
Where does it say that if a woman farts she is cheating???
It says "her belly is flat and her thigh is falling".
How am I supposed to believe the rest of the "facts" in the article after your so embarrassing mistake?
But actually how do you explain the tradition that passes from generation to generation? How in all cultures did people stop believing in their tradition and only in Judaism did they continue? It just goes to show that mere invention does not hold water over generations. The tradition that an entire nation witnessed the Mount Sinai situation and the Exodus does not exist in any culture.
The rest of the things are just paraphrases for the central testimony. And this is really a mistake of the converts who make the treatment the main thing.
# Fascinating article worth reading #
Of course, we should not forget the book "The Biblical Code" by Michael Droznin, which came out about 20 years ago, and in which there are convincing proofs of the hidden knowledge and the discovery of the north of the future using the letter-skipping method, with which the Torah predicted the future until the end of all generations!
Indeed, at the end of the book there are some amazing predictions for the future. for example:
Bibi will be murdered before the year 2000.
Atomic war in Israel in 2006.
Global Gog and Magog war before 2010.
Well, not all mothballs are harmful. On the other hand - Lebanon B really was in 2006.
beginning,
I want to inform the writers here,
In light of what Nissim wrote elsewhere,
Because he is an unreliable person and what he writes cannot be taken seriously.
Regarding the knowledge about the Sage in connection with the number of stars.
Suffice it to state that the number of stars is much, much greater than what can be seen,
To prove that they had knowledge from an extraterrestrial entity...
Their evaluation "in the absence" of the correct number does not reduce in the least...
The fact is a fact, even today we are surprised every day
From updated revelations about increasing numbers of these numbers…
Ezra
The Greeks measured the circumference of the earth 400 years before the Sage. What do you say about that?
troll can be ignored.
You are all smart when you have no one to respond just to remind you that Hazal wrote already 2000 years ago that no one believed that the earth was round, and we waited 1500 years for Galileo to tell us and for scientists and spaceships and satellites to verify what Hazal wrote 2000 years ago and they discovered it from the Torah ciphers and thus science He verifies for himself what was written in the Torah 6000 years ago. You don't have to work hard to discover the truth about our world, the history of all the worlds, go to our holy books, you just need the right people to decipher the ciphers, by the way, little me is writing you something from the Gemara in Mikra I learned with A brilliant man by the name of Todros Green House, an English Jew, that the sun has water, lots of water, logically an atomic reactor needs to be cold and maybe the sun is a giant cold atom, one day the scientists will discover that too, another thing is that the earth and the planets are the only ones that do not move and everything moves around them only from here From the earth to our galaxy is what you see but the day will come when science will advance and be able to teach us what we already know remember what I wrote here the day will come,
Yair
No one claims that the big bang theory is the truth. Science claims, relying on many confirmations, that this theory is very reasonable, in relation to any other existing theory.
If you think otherwise, then you are probably an expert in the field, and know another theory that better explains the existing observations.
I would love to learn from you about this theory.
Avi
It is implied from your words that there is relevant knowledge (that is correct and useful) in the Torah and especially in the interpretations of the Sages.
I would love to know what are the most significant revelations that Judaism has contributed to the world and that they have some objective documentation or at least official recognition in non-Jewish traditions, I suppose you should have no problem finding three such examples (I, in my ignorance, do not know even one).
In addition, I would appreciate it if you could explain why this miraculous knowledge is not used in all those problems that all humans (and Jews in particular) suffer from, such as hunger, diseases, accidents, the Holocaust, etc. If relevant knowledge exists, why don't those who know it show up, for example, in the hospitals (and in many other places where their knowledge is needed) and help their brothers who are in dire straits? Why is this knowledge not used to solve problems that science and medicine have been struggling with for many years? After all, it is in the first interest of the Jewish religion to convince in a pleasant way all the unbelievers and the confused and the lost to return to the true thing according to your method. If I get the impression that religious people have relevant information, I will be the first to adopt the sources of information and I am convinced that many others will do the same. Why do you think so many religious people try to convince such pathetic persuasions on sites like the scientist instead of really convincing by presenting significant relevant knowledge in a way that everyone came out hired?
And on the other hand, if such knowledge does not exist, I would be happy to receive an answer as to why in your opinion many religious people so passionately claim that such knowledge is in their possession.
You treat the big bang theory as a fact that was captured on video and everyone is watching the video and there are still people in the world who dare to deny the theory, it's just a theory that could be one of a million theories that came up or didn't come up! I understand that many people like it, it's convenient, it's practical, but it's not a fact at all, the simplest thing to say is we don't know, we'll keep looking, it's really wonderful, why invent and lie to the world?!
"...it's true that they call this the "creation story", but between this story and the Big Bang there is not even the faintest connection" (copyist from the article) and it's not really accurate...
Allow me Amnon to show you something interesting: the book begins with: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The problem with the first verse is: a few verses later, God creates the heavens once more - and this is a quality that suits the plasterer who paints my house - but less so for God...
Therefore, we can assume that either God can afford to make mistakes in production and work more than once on the same thing - or there is a problem with the scriptures. I chose the second option...
Therefore - let's attach the letters (originally there were no spacers) - then it will look like this:
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
And now we will produce spices but in different places. We will punch it:
In the head God will be created, you are heaven and you are earth.
I assume that he will be created = created by himself.
And in addition - we have an equation here: God = heaven and earth.
I allow myself to guess that the meaning here (heaven and earth) is everything. Meaning: everything you can see is God.
And if heaven and earth = to God, then in the verse that follows we have a description of what was seen at the beginning of the journey (and the earth was a chaos and wo...) and we can allow ourselves to assume that it is a kind of explosion or at the very least - God at this stage of creation (of which he is a part) was Completely overwhelmed - and slowly, at this point - he gathers himself into what we know as God.
—
The term "God of heaven and earth" is mentioned several times in Genesis - and since this is how I believe this is what the poet meant.
The use of the scientist's name in the comments both here and on sites like Rotter, which is intended to mislead the surfers as if 'I have repented', is illegal. I would be happy if you change the nickname and then I will confirm your comment.
Life
Avi
If it was possible to make money from all your nonsense you would be a tycoon today at least then you could maybe do something productive for example real estate. Be so busy that you won't have time to mess with the word combinations and with so much nonsense you say and your stupid text you produce in commercial quantities. Listen to a man who saw what was in the world from the height of his age. For your information, I was born in 156 BC
The truth is you are right
I spend precious time talking if people are locked up instead of taking care of my business..
I'm very busy, it's just that it's a little more interesting than the trading world. I love the Torah and it's hard to hear such lies so I responded. This is the last comment here
May you have an abundance of blessing and joy and may you be blessed with a miracle that the iron curtain will disappear and you will come out of darkness into light
Avi
I don't enjoy talking to fools. Bye.
Miracles
“Avi
If sages were wise, they would have realized that there are many more stars than the ones we see. If there was they would have information
My God" - they would not have been wrong a million times over... I choose to think that the Sages were wise - you are not."
I see that it is difficult for you to understand a simple thing:
that at the time the Sages spoke of 1,064,340,000,000,000,000 stars in total, when science at that time only knew about 4000
For thousands of years the difference between science and the Sages was 18 zeros and that's without them having telescopes. Only a fool does not see the greatness in this
"Regarding the fish - you didn't understand, it doesn't matter. You won't understand even if they explain it to you again and again and again..."
Millions of fish and all you have as proof is a fish called a single fin
Only a fool does not see the greatness in this
Everything else is irrelevant.
As you say red is green... there is no basis for discussion.
The day you realize that you live with blind faith in your religion and you have no idea how much depth there is in creation that we were created from nothing and will return to being dust and only the victorious soul is the main thing here. And everything else is like a matrix of imagination in the head. Illusion virtual reality. It is not far today that computer games will be able to provide a similar experience.
Then maybe you'll realize that you're living in a movie... and it's a shame you'll find out too late. All I can suggest to you is to forget for a moment everything you have learned. Investigate the truth in depth and perhaps you will understand and humbly approach the vast Jewish bookcase. And you will understand that there is a mighty Godly wisdom of life there. that permeates every area of life. The depth of innermost sublime secrets.
Amazing things from the owner of the holy "Light of Life".
"And there is no good but the Torah, if people were to feel the sweetness and richness of the goodness of the Torah, they would go crazy and be passionate about it, and in their eyes, a world full of silver and gold would not be considered for nothing, because the Torah includes all the good things in the world" [Or Ha'im Deuteronomy Chapter XNUMX]
Avi
If it was possible to make money from all your nonsense you would be a tycoon today at least then you could maybe do something productive for example real estate. Be so busy that you won't have time to mess with the word combinations and with so much nonsense you say and your stupid text you produce in commercial quantities. Listen to a man who saw what was in the world from the height of his age. For your information, I was born in 156 BC.
Avi
If sages were wise, they would have realized that there are many more stars than the ones we see. If there was they would have information
God" - they would not have been wrong a million times over …… I choose to think that the Sages were wise - you are not.
Regarding the fish - you didn't understand, it doesn't matter. You won't understand even if they explain it to you again and again and again...
Sails? You don't mean "excuses"????
"The Zohar was written, according to Moshe de Leon, 600 years after the Greeks measured the radius of the earth."
Lies and vanities ……………….what exactly is a lie here? is this your defense????
All the traditions about a standing sun - bring sources. I don't know of any story of any people that the sun stood still in the sky.
Beatings in Egypt? Do you really not know that there is no evidence that the Israelites were in Egypt? The Egyptians recorded every grain of wheat - and they did not write a single word about the "Exodus from Egypt". A smart person understands that this is just a story. A pagan person, like you, believes that everyone lies except for his rabbi.
Rakie - learn the holy language - check what the word means before you continue to make up stories. Water in space... What are you talking about?
It is written in the Torah that the earth stands stable, on strong foundations, and that it is flat. You are welcome to continue lying to yourself - just spare it from me okay?
Listen - believe in God. But don't lie to yourself.
nissim
"Let's be precise, okay? The number of stars in the visible universe (and not in the entire universe) is 1000 to 1000000 times greater than the Sage's estimate.
In other words, the Sages messed up again."
It doesn't matter if the number is accurate that no one can know except the Creator, except that at the time the Sages spoke of 1,064,340,000,000,000,000 stars in total, when science at that time only knew about 4000 stars
With the breakthrough into space, the scientific hypothesis is approaching what the sages said, and according to NASA, the rate of stars is currently estimated at 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,00
Let's move on to the rest of the rants.
"Regarding the fish - one exception to the rule is enough to contradict the rule. If you don't understand that then we have a problem…”
A lie... the fish doesn't cancel anything if it already strengthens
"A day is a day - "And there was evening and there was morning". You want to blow up some story that solves this? you are welcome."
No story… you want to be established that you understand something without sails so don't use them only if it suits you
A snake is a snake - man did not have any bad instincts before eating from the tree of knowledge. Did you forget??
"The instinct was only outside the person and after eating it entered the person"
"The Zohar was written, according to Moshe de Leon, 600 years after the Greeks measured the radius of the earth."
Lies and vanity
The sun is standing in the sky - Book of Joshua, chapter 13, verse XNUMX. What is happening to you??
In the folk tradition of American Indian tribes, in the tradition of the Hindus, the Chinese, the ancient Mexicans, the Buddhists
And in the description of the Greek historian Herodotus, who brings the chronicles of the ancient Egyptians, in all of them a disruption in the course of the sun is described, a disruption
which caused the sun not to move from its place for a long time, it was an obvious miracle of the greatest known to mankind and in which the prophecy of Jacob our father was fulfilled
In blessing Ephraim, "and his seed will be full of the Gentiles" and the Sages interpreted, from whom Joshua came out to establish a warm place and this miracle will be known throughout the world
As he wrote in the book Colliding Worlds:
Explanation: The setting of the sun was in Gibeon: and the Mexico he invented in the distant past was then night, therefore the night did not end there for a long time.
In the native traditions it is written that the sun rose only a little above the horizon and remained standing there, and the moon also stood still.
Among peoples and tribes in many parts of the world, there are ancient traditions about how the sun did not set for a certain time.
Besides, what's the problem with the creator doing a miracle, he controls nature
Like the plagues of Egypt and the tearing of the Red Sea
Sky... We have already talked about the sky being a hard substance, which separates water from water - Genesis chapter 6, verse XNUMX.
you spoke…
"And God made the sky (=the layer of air that surrounds the earth). And he will distinguish between the water that is under the sky and the water that is above the sky. And so be it."
In Genesis chapter XNUMX verse XNUMX) it is needless to say that during the thousands of years that have passed since the giving of the Torah until the age of modern science, the astronomers did not accept what the Torah said on this subject [-and this despite the great appreciation they usually gave to its words - especially in the sciences of astronomy] and their bewilderment was great:
water in space is it possible?!? And if that's not enough, it turns out that the Torah was not satisfied with the above-mentioned data written in the Torah-in writing, but added to clarify its details in the Torah that was oral (-in a midrash that was put down in writing about two thousand years ago), while noting that: "The upper waters permit the underwear". (Midrash Rabbah in Genesis Parasha XNUMX, letter XNUMX).
That is, the amount of water in space will exceed the amount of water on Earth. In light of the enormous amount of water on the surface of the entire earth (in all the oceans, seas, lakes, streams, rivers, abysses, etc.), the bewilderment has increased sevenfold. However, surprisingly, with the progress of science in space exploration through powerful telescopes, spacecraft and research satellites, the scientists discovered to their astonishment the following findings.
Here is some innovative data from the most authoritative encyclopedia on space exploration, the Cambridge Atlas of Astronomy: "In the morning hours of 30/6/1908 - a tremendous explosion occurred in central Siberia... Eyewitnesses said that a huge meteor was visible in the sky for a few seconds and then hit the ground.
People who were standing sixty kilometers away from the place where the meteor hit were thrown to the ground by the massive explosion. Seismological shocks were recorded all over the world... a block of ice weighing 30,000 tons collided with the earth. As a result, energy equal in strength to a 12 megaton nuclear bomb was released. (A nuclear bomb of 12 megatons is equal to 12.000.000 tons of explosive material). If this block of ice had not fallen on London or New York and not on an uninhabited place in Siberia, the results would have been disastrous. The embarrassment among space explorers was great.
Where did this huge block of ice come from? Are there more ice cubes in space?? In-depth and thorough research has revealed that the 30.000-ton chunk of ice that landed in Siberia was nothing more than a fraction of the nucleus of the comet ENCKE! Prof. Fred Whipple from Harvard University, who was the director of the observatory of the "Smithsonian" Institute, proved that the comets that appeared in the spring of 1957 are composed of ice mixed with dust particles and other fragments. Amazing facts are revealed from the numerical data. A small comet contains about a billion tons of ice. Whereas a large comet reaches a thousand times this amount.
(1.000.000.000.000 tons of ice!) At the edge of the solar system is an area called the "Oort Cloud" (named after the Dutch astronomer Jan Oort). In this area alone there are about 1000 billion comets! In addition, in recent years it has been known from reports of spacecraft that have been launched that almost everywhere in the solar system there are huge amounts of ice. (The giant planets - Jupiter, Saturn, as well as Neptune and Uranus - are made, among other things, of a layer of ice thousands of kilometers (!) thick. The frozen poles of Mars are vast expanses of ice. Saturn's rings contain enormous amounts of ice. And more) . It is therefore clear today.
Because all the water on the surface of the earth is nothing more than a drop from the sea in relation to the huge amounts of water in space." (See all this and more in the Cambridge Atlas pages 156-219. And refer to Prof. Natan Aviezer's book, "Bereshit Bara" p. 32). The halo around the icy "head" of Comet Heli, and the vapor trail leaving it the planet Saturn as photographed from the Voyager 1 spacecraft. The diameter of the star (without the rings around it): 60.000 km (nine times the size of Earth.
The giant rings around Saturn as photographed by the Voyager 2 spacecraft Only recently did it become clear that the rings consist of very small particles up to huge rocks and ice blocks. The people of Israel didn't need state-of-the-art spacecraft or sophisticated telescopes to know this innovative information that was discovered only in the last decades. Ever since the giving of the Torah, our people have known that the Creator of the universe declared in the book of instructions that he gave us that there is water in space, and that "the upper waters will exceed the lower."
And who like him knows the secrets of his creation! We will also note that in the above-mentioned midrash we were also given precise details about how water is found in space. In the same midrash it is said that contrary to the superficial understanding of the verse as if it were water that is on the sky as a wide layer of water, the one who is accurate in the language of the verse will immediately discover that it is water that hangs in space.
"If it had been said, "And the waters that are in the firmament were distinguished", I would have said that the waters were placed on the firmament itself. But when he says "the waters that are above the sky", then the upper waters depend on the article (- depend on space by the Creator's instruction)." (Midrash Rabbah Beresheet Parsha XNUMX letter XNUMX) and see also in the Midrash there (letter XNUMX) a report on the stagnation of water in space and its being ice icicles. (See there carefully for additional data that science has not yet been able to discover).
A flat earth - Daniel chapter 8, verse XNUMX, Psalms Zeg, first verse, and there is more.
h) The ram is great and strong, and his glory will reach the heavens, and his glory will be seen to the ends of the whole earth.
I don't see the connection in the verse and yet it was also not a source.. Only if you interpret it maybe you will understand something from there
Daniel wrote parables and prophecies... what do you even understand from that
King David wrote the Psalms in the style of poetry and parables... I don't see the connection in verse XNUMX and yet even if it was not a source... only if you interpret it you might understand something from there
Yahweh is king, the tide of clothing:
Yahweh is clothed, Oz is proud; Af-Tikkon Tavle, Bal-Timot.
XNUMX It is true that you have a crown of oats; Forever with you.
No high school in the world would be fooled
Even though the world will stand and be established and not fall
Until now the Gentiles will beware of their God lest they bring evil upon them and cause destruction to the world. However, at the time of redemption, when God's name will be made known throughout the world, the Gentiles will see his great name and the glory of his genius, even though the earth will stand and be established, they will see from God the awe of the exalted.
Avi
I will present one claim and there are other claims that contradict all the scruple about ciphers in the Bible through skipping. The matter of ciphers is based on the spelling of the Bible as it is known to us in which there are 22 letters. In the biblical period there were 17 letters in a thousand letters. If you manage to confirm one to unify the idea of skipping over the Bible as it was written in ancient times, it would be possible to say that there is something and it is also doubtful that there is indeed something in the idea of ciphers. Why are you trying to rape the Bible and put things in it that cannot be in it. I guess those who wrote the Bible would have heard your "musings" and would have said enough, leave us alone. How much nonsense can be said.
Avi
A lot of barbarism and swagger but zero regard for other people. I can find a fair share of people debating Marvel or Star Wars characters, that still doesn't mean I have to take it seriously as something based in the real world (and I think they're closer to the real world than your books, and are avowedly fiction).
The irony of your writing about, not being the snake, while acting like a snake, when you write all of this, is not lost on me. extremely entertaining.
Avi
Let's be specific, shall we? The number of stars in the visible universe (and not in the entire universe) is 1000 to 1000000 times greater than the Sage's estimate.
In other words, the Sages messed up again.
Let's move on to the rest of the rants.
Regarding the fish - one exception to the rule is enough to contradict the rule. If you don't understand that then we have a problem…
A day is a day - "And there was evening and there was morning." You want to blow up some story that solves this? you are welcome.
A snake is a snake - man did not have any bad instincts before eating from the tree of knowledge. Did you forget??
The warning was written, according to Moshe de Leon, 600 years after the Greeks measured the radius of the earth.
The sun is standing in the sky - Book of Joshua, chapter 13, verse XNUMX. What is happening to you??
Sky... We have already talked about the sky being a hard substance, which separates water from water - Genesis chapter 6, verse XNUMX.
A flat earth - Daniel chapter 8, verse XNUMX, Psalms Zeg, first verse, and there is more.
I wonder what your excuse will be this time...
Avi
Let's be specific, shall we? The number of stars in the visible universe (and not in the entire universe) is 1000 to 1000000 times greater than the Sage's estimate.
In other words, the Sages messed up again.
Let's move on to the rest of the rants.
Regarding the fish - one exception to the rule is enough to contradict the rule. If you don't understand that then we have a problem…
A day is a day - "And there was evening and there was morning." You want to blow up some story that solves this? you are welcome.
A snake is a snake - man did not have any bad instincts before eating from the tree of knowledge. Did you forget??
The warning was written, according to Moshe de Leon, 600 years after the Greeks measured the radius of the earth.
The sun is standing in the sky - Book of Joshua, chapter 13, verse XNUMX. What is happening to you??
Sky... We have already talked about the sky being a hard substance, which separates water from water - Genesis chapter 6, verse XNUMX.
A flat earth - Daniel chapter 8, verse XNUMX, Psalms Zeg, first verse, and there is more.
I wonder what your excuse will be this time...
Nonsense, no one knows what the number of stars is, and it changes from day to day with new discoveries, if there was such a moment when NASA's estimate was similar to the Sage's estimate, it has long since passed, and today it is millions times more.
For example
BSD
You need to understand all the sages' words in depth and not just in their simplicity. I wrote and not only in simplicity - because in many places the Sages also referred to the simplicity of things. As we in our everyday language speak both things that are "simple" and things that are "parable".
If I write you are standing "by me" does that mean you are standing right on my hands? And if you stand half a meter away from me, am I a liar?
This is the case in many expressions in our daily lives and so is the Torah. Does the meaning of the words "and you wrote a letter with your hands" mean to engrave them with a pen on the hands? And what is the meaning of the words "and you covered the foreskin of your heart"? open heart surgery?
Likewise in the words of the sages there are things that are an image and there is a parable and there is truth and there are both.
I write these things as a prelude to the answer. Let us understand that when our sages wrote that the snake is cursed from both the animal and the beast - their words are about the curse of Adam's first sin in the matter of "pregnancy". and other curses that are written there.
What is the double curse?
"Cursed art thou above every beast and every beast of the field" (Genesis XNUMX)
Our sages guided us to look for the curse in the serpent's pregnancy. In nature there are two types of pregnancy - there are parents whose fetuses spend the entire pregnancy in the womb. And some lay eggs. Each method has its advantages and disadvantages.
The virtues of laying eggs are in freeing the parents from the burden of carrying the fetus in the womb. and the possibility of laying hundreds and thousands of eggs.
The degree of pregnancy is in the tight bond that a parent has with his offspring throughout the pregnancy until the moment of birth.
Most snakes "suffer" from two different pregnancies. Most snakes both lay eggs and give birth live?
How? The female snake lays the eggs inside her body and they hatch inside the body itself and then she gives birth to them alive. In short, the snake "suffers" from both disadvantages.
Maybe this is what the Sages meant?
I once read a study about the fact that sometimes the female snake keeps the eggs inside her body until they develop for several years - up to seven years. Maybe that's what the Sages meant?
They also knew how to tell us that there are situations where the snake gives birth for less than seven years. (Yelkot Shimoni Torah Parashat Beresheet Ramez no) This means that Shiron Yedan is not the first to discover this "wonderful truth". Sages also knew about this and nevertheless said what they said.
Why did they do that?
Maybe they wanted to draw our attention to something deeper in reality?
Please read the Ramchal's words about the legends before we continue trying to understand these sages' words.
—–
There are several parts to the Torah and one of them is the secret.
"Part of the secrets - it is not appropriate that he should be given this way in front of everyone who wants to take the name.,,,because it is not the honor of the Creator Yth that his secrets should be given into the hands of people of bad faith, and even if they are wise and wise,,,,,,
Therefore, they finished writing them, so that they would not be lost from the last generations, but in ways that disappear and kinds of riddles that only the one who was given the keys could solve, that is, the rules by which the clues would be understood and those riddles interpreted, and the one who was not given the keys would be in front of him according to the words of the book The signed and such were not written at all.
And these keys he entrusted to the hands of his disciples who received them from their hands, and indeed they trusted them not to pass them on except to other disciples who were as decent as themselves, and also from generation to generation. And what did they warn and also commanded everyone who is educated and teaches to warn and announce to everyone that the words of the sages and their riddles should be learned, and that anyone who is close to them and does not have the keys in his hand only wants to fail.
—–
After this introduction, let's try to understand what the Sages meant by their words?
Even the Ramban has already explained that there are deep secrets here (Beresheet XNUMX:XNUMX) "Rabbi Yehoshua observed from this Bible that the serpent gives birth for seven years (Bekorot XNUMX), and they checked and found that this was true (Beresheet Rabba Parsha XNUMX), because the scripture sermons and their hints are accepted , and in them they have deep secrets."
What are the deep secrets?
Perhaps it is possible to understand here some very internal law in the order of the world?
The Zohar (Parashat Genesis page XNUMX page XNUMX. Parashat Pekodi page XNUMX page XNUMX and more) explains that it is about seven powers and the ways in which the "evil instinct" affects evil in the world.
To understand a little, it seems that the number "seven" is a very significant number in the life of the snake. And in particular, this is about the "ancestral snake" which is not the usual creature we are used to seeing today, but it is about the father of the ancestors of the snakes we know.
This is the serpent who is the father of the ancestors of impurity. The father of the fathers of temptation, the father of the fathers of sins, is the one who brought death into the world.
Note that the curses cursed by the serpent are seven. (Genesis chapter XNUMX hand)
"And the Lord God said to the serpent, Because you have done this
1. You are more blessed than all the beasts
2. And of every beast of the field
3. On your knees you will walk
4. And dust you shall eat all the days of your life:
5. And enmity will dwell between you and the woman
6. And between your seed and her seed
7. He will make you head and you will make him heel:
You have seven curses to guess. What does it mean that there are seven curses?
Is there a connection between this and the fact that there are seven days for creation?
And why was the man cursed with ten curses?
An allusion to the matter is stated in the Sages who said in the Talmud tractate Baba Batra page XNUMX/XNUMX "The Lord God said he is Satan, he is the evil one, he is the angel of death" and all of them are the serpent in his own right (Sofrono OT).
He was the evil instinct that tempted Eve and the first Adam, and was also the evil messenger that caused and will cause death in the world. He has three roles - and,,,,seven appearances as the Evil One.
This is what the Gemara says in tractate Sukkah (page XNUMX/XNUMX) "The creator of evil has seven names." And in our language we would say that he has "seven different roles". "Seven different performances"
"The creator of evil has seven names.
1. The Holy One, blessed be He, called "bad" as it is said "because the heart of man is evil from his youth".
2. Moshe called "foreskin" as it was said "and covert the foreskin of your heart".
3. David was called "unclean" as it is said "a pure heart God created for me" from the whole Daikha Tama.
4. Shlomo was called a "hater" which was said "if he is hungry feed him bread and if he is thirsty give him water because you are burning coals on his head. And God will pay you" Do not let it happen that He will pay you, but we will pay you.
5. Isaiah called an "obstacle" as it was said "Solo solo turned through the road lifted an obstacle from the road of my people".
6. Ezekiel called "Stone" as it was said "And I removed the heart of stone from your flesh and gave you a heart of flesh".
7. Joel called "Northern" as it was said "And I will remove the northerner from above you".
He is always "bad". But in what way does the evil instinct appear and how does it come to us?
Sometimes it is the opacity of the heart.
And sometimes these are the sins that defile a person.
always always to the detriment of the sinner,
And so the truth is that the evil instinct is man's "hate". Sometimes the bad habit only brings you difficulties and obstacles, this is enough to stop its growth and correction.
The prophet Ezekiel already calls him "stone" - because there are situations in which the human heart turns to stone - total opacity and insensitivity - a heart of stone.
This can appear cruel, and hard-hearted.
But the worst thing is the feeling of the north in the heart. He can certainly hurt the wicked as well as the righteous. This is a creation that knows how to wear the robe of a great rebbe and purify everything that runs in Ken Tamim. He should be more careful than anything else.
The truth is that with a little thought it is possible to understand what the Sages wanted to teach us in this article?
How did each one locate the weak point that the snake finds in man?
I shortened so as not to prolong for nothing. But the principle is clear - this artist has seven different appearances.
Why seven?
In order to understand more deeply the words of the Sage, one must see that pregnancy is actually one of the curses of Eve, our mother, "many, many, your sorrow and your sadness - with sadness you will give birth to sons". These are the curses that the serpent brought into the world.
The pregnancy in which the body was created with all the bones and sinews flesh and skin is the result of sin. Before that, man was "light" and something much more spiritual. All purity and nobility. It's all love, brotherhood, peace and evil. All joy. It's all a blessing. All is infinite enlightenment.
Until the sin - the sin of the snake!
Another complementary result of sin came into the world because of the serpent and that is the garment.
Before sin, man did not need clothes or masks and did not need to hide himself. He was simple in his behavior like all animals. but was of great virtue as a man.
Magnanimity and raids - this was the winning combination of man before sin.
Our sages said that the snake also encountered this matter of the "skin" which sheds its skin every seven years.
Seven times again?
Here too, Yaron Yadan can come and ask, isn't this what happens to snakes every month? Why is it written in the Gemara every seven years?
Maybe even here Chazal did not know what is happening with the snake?
And maybe they wanted to hint to us something internal in the life of the snake?
Perhaps the reference is to what is written in the Torah and explained in the words of the Sages, that before God made the first man "skin coats". He had "cottons of light".
And so it is brought forth in Midrash Rabbah and read parasha XNUMX paragraph XNUMX "Rish Lakish in the name of R. Shimon ben Mansia said the apple of Adam's heel darkened the wheel of heat." His face is all the more clumsy"?
The leg of the first Adam was so bright that the wheel of Hema would have looked dark compared to it. And all this because man was created in the image of God. And God "puts on light like Solomon" and that's how the first man was created - until he sinned.
So the snake brought into the world the roughness of the "skin" instead of the beauty and delicacy of the "light". Perhaps he should wear them more than any other creature?
Maybe that's why he grows skin all the time and that's why he can't stand his skin and suffers from it and sheds his skin?
Perhaps this is what our sages said (Zohar vol. XNUMX (Bereshith) page rasag page XNUMX) that the snake shedding its skin once every seven years comes to bind us to its curses. to his pregnancy. To his initial act?
And see in Zohar Vol. XNUMX (Bereshit) Parashat Bereshit page XNUMX page XNUMX and in Zohar Volume XNUMX (Exodus) Parashat Bereshit page XNUMX page XNUMX Parashat Pekodi page Rasach page XNUMX and other places that allude to everything we said.
This is how R. Zadok explained in his book "Dover Tzedek" Letter D
"And it is found that there is no evil on the part of its essence, but only on the part of the removal of its abundance in the expansion, only by pressing it. And anyway, the place is given to evil to wake up. which stands immediately as the skin next to the fruit and is clothed with the fruit and as it is written on skin tunics which is the body by Zohar Kadoshim PG Ra'ab interpretation in corrections Mishka Dahoya s in Hakad DM this thing Ra'ab he concluded and in BGD Tzadikia dental covenant '.
And the interpretation is the same as it is written there in S. Vikhal Rabbi A. Dagoff from the serpent demolished in seven years Joshua XNUMX. And we were the time of its passage in seven years, the first chapter of Devokurot (XNUMX:XNUMX). And I. in Pard'a Pid XNUMX of the curses of the snake to be stripped of its skin once every seven years. And O. Zohar sent XNUMX SAAB in voices that go from the end of the world to the end. A living voice and a snake's voice at the end of the day. And we were this model is a birth that gives birth to human bodies that is from this source. And that is why it is once every seven years, and meaning, as is well known, that one's heart and mind are like the taste of lights and utensils. And in all the lights that God, blessed be He, created so that His light may spread, in this way and in order He also installed for it a vessel that would receive this light. Because otherwise it would spread endlessly like the path of light. And the vessel narrowed it down not to go outside of its dimension. And we found the matter of the tools are the ones that reduce and prevent the spread of the Oro Yth flu, and from his side the herd is drawn and prevented in the light of God, may God be blessed. And in Genesis Rabbah (parasha XNUMX) in Ram's Torah it was written as the gifts of light in the verse:
And therefore you will understand the wonderful words of the Gemara that those who do not kneel during the prayer are eighteen in the "modim" of the standing prayer. Whoever does not bow to God because of too much "pride" or too much "self-importance" - a terrible thing happens to him.
"We will make Shadro Nachsh after seven years"
His spine turned into a snake after seven years. (obvious amendment to the mark of the XNUMXth paragraph b)
What's going on here?
Maybe someone will come and ask and say "I checked and it's not happening"!!
Sages were not educated enough!!
Maybe?
Listen to me - you shouldn't answer him at all!!
We will understand that the Sages wanted to imply to us in their very wise words that a person's pride and self-importance will cause him after some time to become like a snake.
He will want to feel "and you were like God".
He allowed himself to change God's words. He will behave like the ancient serpent.
conclusion!
You shouldn't be like the snake. Don't follow his path. Don't be cursed with his curses.
To be "light" and not to be "skin".
to brighten a friend's face. forever. to God Do not cultivate the skin and flesh.
Invest most of your energy in "lights" and not invest in "body". Finally, the body is the "vessel" and the soul is the "light".
Only perfect tzaddiks like Moses can take the snake and turn it down where the redemption is done.
This is the interpretation of the skin of the "leviathan nachs barih" from the skin of which a sukkah is made over Jerusalem. And our light reaches from the end of the world to its end.
Successfully
—- *** —- *** —- *** —- *** —- *** —- ***
The things written here are only a first introduction to the depth of the matter because of the deep and hidden things that exist in this matter.
Therefore - carefully!
"Your point proves nothing, one "correct" claim (I'll go with you) against many wrong claims."
Glad you got the truth
Regardless, hundreds of fish should have been easily found and not some fish called a single fin.
I don't expect you to repent and believe... respect. The people of Israel are a wise people, we are firmly based on truth and the rabbis are the elite who turned every stone. Believe me, science is the last thing that will move me from my faith. I live and breathe the power of truth without any doubts.
"The world was created in six days, there was light before there was a sun, a talking snake, a sun standing in the sky, there is a firmament that prevents the water from falling on us, the earth is flat and so on and so forth."
Without going into it, simply everything requires study.
There are answers in the Oral Torah
The world was created in six days
How long has it been? The sun was created on the fourth day
A snake is a dark angel created by evil
The world is round according to Zohar
Is there a sun in the sky? source
Is there a firmament that prevents the water from falling on us? source
Is the earth flat? source
Excuse me, I don't want to go into all this for lack of time.
Only one thing I will tell you, without studying the internals of the Torah, you understand almost nothing of what you read
Especially in the concepts you chose... the Torah is mainly focused on man and society, the whole scientific issue is not that relevant
or interesting Does not bother with the setting
Only the subject of the primordial serpent can write entire books
Another cipher
When sages spoke of a total of 1,064,340,000,000,000,000 stars thousands of years ago, when science at that time only knew about 4000 stars with the breakthrough into space, the scientific hypothesis comes close to what the sages said, and according to NASA, today the number of stars is estimated at 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 XNUMX, according to data from the National University of Australia This is a rough estimate and not accurate at all, since the number is based on samples based on a small area in space, while the Sages took the exact rate according to what they received from the giver of the Torah who created the world and everything in space
Avi
"But remember that the Torah is true forever. And there is a creator of the universe"
What evidence do you have for this?
"If it interests you to know Da'at Torah, there are enough people who will be happy to give details"
It turns out not. So far all those who have come here have not been willing or able to answer any questions and have not been willing or able to detail anything.
Avi
"The principle is simply that Sages knew things for thousands of years that were mostly discovered in the last century"
And what about the things they knew years ago that turned out to be wrong? It's an argument of we'll focus on successful guesses and ignore all the others that are wrong. And this is without touching on the fact that this knowledge is often dependent on interpretation and requires distortions and corrections in order to adapt to the measured reality.
"The Torah is not a science book"
So stop using it as such and try to show the amazing knowledge it has that they didn't know until the last century.
You wrote that the soul is eternal. What happens to the soul when you die? Does the soul maintain awareness or does awareness disappear?
Your point proves nothing, one "correct" claim (I'll go with you) against many false claims.
Round 1-0
Regardless, hundreds of fish should have been easily found and not some fish called a single fin.
I don't expect you to repent and believe... respect. The people of Israel are a wise people, we are firmly based on truth and the rabbis are the elite who turned every stone. Believe me, science is the last thing that will move me from my faith. I live and breathe the power of truth without any doubts.
The world was created in six days, there was light before there was a sun, a talking serpent, a sun standing in the sky, there is a firmament that prevents the water from falling on us, the earth is flat and so on and so forth.
Without going into it, simply everything requires study.
I have oral Torah answers
The world was created in six days
How long has it been? The sun was created on the fourth day
A snake is a dark angel created by evil
The world is round according to Zohar
Honestly, if you'll excuse me, I have no interest in going into all this for lack of time.
Only one thing I will tell you, without studying the internals of the Torah, you understand almost nothing of what you read
Especially in the concepts you chose... the Torah is mainly focused on man and society, the whole scientific issue is not that relevant
or interesting Does not bother with the setting
Another cipher
When the Sages spoke of 1,064,340,000,000,000,000 stars in total, when science at that time only knew about 4000 stars with the breakthrough into space, the scientific hypothesis comes close to what the Sages said, and according to NASA, they currently estimate the number of stars to be 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, according to Australian National University data is an estimate Rough and not accurate at all, since the number is based on samples according to a small area in space, [see http://WWW.EDITION.CNN.COM] Whereas the sages took the exact lesson according to what they received from the giver of the Torah who created the world and everything in space
If you understand what I like in the Torah then wait
http://www.aish.co.il/sp/48w/
Avi
Yeah, I was waiting for you to come up with that damn excuse. Without it - how would you sleep at night? 🙂
Let's be serious. Biologists who understand the matter claim that this fish has no fins. Some delusional rabbi claims to have fins. great.
Your point proves nothing, one "correct" claim (I'll go with you) against many false claims. The world was created in six days, there was light before there was a sun, a talking serpent, a sun standing in the sky, there is a firmament that prevents the water from falling on us, the earth is flat and so on and so forth.
You can look at the Torah as an amazing book, even though it is full of cruelty, (modern) immorality and scientific errors. And you can look at him in your twisted way, which I can't even begin to explain.
My father - learn the parable of the rooster. Otherwise, you are wasting your life. is not that a loss?
You received a password request... anyway, I don't have time to deal with your nonsense. Explore the world, no problem
to discover the wonders of the Creator. But remember that the Torah is true forever. And there is a creator of the universe
Greetings
Well, apparently the article refers to a fish called ``Monpetros Kucia'' that the administrators of the heretical websites, Mr. Yaron Yadan and a friend of his flock, excited with a great noise. But as it turned out, this is nothing more than throwing sand in the eyes of the public in their own way, simply nothing. And so Rabbi Yaakov Segal of Barchi Yosef Yeshiva in Bnei Brak wittily answered it. Every word is a gem!!!! "Sages say: There is no fish that has scales and no fin. And the poker claims to have found a fish that has scales and no fin at all.
Answer: This time the fool did a wonderful job for us, and for months he went to the trouble of checking all 30,000 types of fish in the world until he announced with a "true opinion" in a loud voice the "sensation" of the century: he finally found in some marine museum in Washington a fish that has scales Without a fin, and attached the photo of the fish with its foreign name: MONOPTERUS CUCHIA accompanied by some names of fish expert doctors. There is something convincing about this, but we who know the "truth" of "truth-opinion" went and tested the "revolutionary invention", and in a short scientific test we found that this fish that "discovered", not only that it has a small fin under its tail, and not only that it has He has pectoral fins up to the age of 10 days and then they fall off [which is enough to be considered kosher], but the translation of his foreign name MONOPTERUS is: "One wing [fin]", after the fin under his tail!!! The poker once again brought clear evidence to the miraculous divine truth of the words of the Torah and Sages in that he tested more than 30,000 fish in the world and did not find even one with scales without a fin! Once again we are amazed and moved to see the wonders of unsuspecting that "He who sits in the sky will play, God will mock him", and as it was said about Pharaoh and Balaam!!
There are miracles
It has already been explained to you that this was true as well... everything that disqualifies in the memo disqualifies. Even such a proof leaves you fixed in your belief.
Avi
It has already been explained to you that even if it were true, the story with the fish is a combination of circumstances that proves nothing. There are so many errors in the Torah that it would be surprising if something didn't come out right from time to time.
Avi
It has already been explained to you that this was also true, the story of the fish fly, it is a combination of circumstances that proves nothing. There are so many errors in the Torah that it would be surprising if something didn't come out right from time to time.
Avi
Brought you as a source a book by a world-renowned fish expert. You brought me a jumble of nonsense.
I am not writing here for you - you will continue your superstitions even if a fish with scales and no fins bites you in the butt.
I write for more intelligent people - but they should check the sources.
"On the other hand - creation does not begin with light" according to the Oral Torah it does.
Avi
In Francis Day's book "Fishes in India", there is a description of a fish that has scales and no fins - the species is Monopterus cuchia. You are welcome to read about it to your heart's content.
What can I say even in the first grade I would bring you we will fail if such a proof.
Sages determined thousands of years ago that there would not be a fish in the world that has scales and no fins and since then they have found millions of types and all you can bring me is an Indian book about a fish in the form of a snake that already invalidated the claim... that's it. I don't ask you to believe, but give respect to the one who said thousands of years ago that there will not be a fish in the world that has scales and does not have a fin
Miracles…
Your attitude makes me laugh.
The Torah states in the beginning that the heavens and the earth were created (out of nothing).
Now to understand the Torah there is an oral Torah. I have no desire to enter into long and useless discussions. Just who has time for that. If it interests you to know Daat Torah there are enough people who will be happy to give details. We believe that the world was created from nothing. I believe that God created this moment, do you believe it was created by itself or by an explosion. Your right... I won't convince you and you won't convince me. So there is no point in going into it
Avi
In Francis Day's book "Fishes in India", there is a description of a fish that has scales and no fins - the species is Monopterus cuchia. You are welcome to read about it to your heart's content.
Avi
In the big bang there is no light for a very long time.
On the other hand - creation does not begin with light. It is written "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth .... blah blah blah".
The sky - translated the word "sky" in Hebrew is hard material. Science has discovered that there is no hard substance that holds the water up...
In the Torah it is written that the world is flat, and this was written many years after the Greeks measured the radius of the earth!
Things look different when you say the right things…..
There are fish with scales and no fins - contrary to what you said. What word did you not understand here?
As far as is known there is none... prove it.
1 Let's start with the first argument: the creation of the world: "Wait a minute - does the book of Genesis say anything about the big bang?"
Yes... the process of the creation of the world in the Torah is from nothing and begins with a point of light
The written Torah is related to the Oral Torah and was given together at Mount Sinai, there is no way to learn without the Oral Torah!
In Kabbalah, the process of creation is detailed, especially in the books of the Holy Ari
2 "Let's move on to the next example: in the story of creation it is stated that God differentiated between the water under the sky and the water above the sky. So far everything is true, it is indeed written in Genesis XNUMX verse XNUMX. But the converts are already taking one step further and adding their own interpretation"
A. Sages established for the Japanese thousands of years that there was water in space before science even had the tools to discover it. And likewise for a comet
And by the way, the Torah (this Torah includes the interpretations) is not a science book and has no need to elaborate. The principle is simply that Sages knew things to the Japanese for thousands of years that were mostly discovered in the last century
"Rabbi Yehoshua's opinion seems far from our natural knowledge
R. Eliezer and R. Yehoshua were divided from Hik Har& Shuta (Babili Ta'anit XNUMX:XNUMX). R. Eliezer says: "All the yoke is entirely from the ocean water he drinks, as it is said, 'Wad.'
He will come up from the earth and water the whole face of the earth (Genesis XNUMX:XNUMX). Rabbi Yehoshua makes it difficult for him: "And aren't the waters of the ocean from the waters of God?" Rabbi Eliezer replies:
"Sweets in my heart". Rabbi Yehoshua himself says: "The whole yoke is drinking from the water above me, as it is said, 'You will drink water from the heavenly rain (Deuteronomy XNUMX:XNUMX)."
According to the issue, R. Yehoshua's intention is for those who are above or beyond the earth.
Apparently, our basic knowledge about the physical origin supports Rabbi Eliezer's opinion. The phrase sweetening of the water in my heart obeys the process of evaporation of the water
The ocean in the sunny island, which as you rise to the altitude cools down and turns into drops of water. This evaporation leaves behind, down in the ocean, the
The salts, and anyway it seems as if the water in my mouth has sweetened.
On the other hand, R. Yehoshua's opinion seems far from our knowledge in the field of nature. Rather, measurements of humidity (water vapor) at different heights of
The atmospheres that are made in thousands of places through the inflation of meteorological balloons confirm that they are in front of the globe (land and water)
the humidity is higher; Whereas at altitude (15-10 mXNUMX) the concentration of moisture (water molecules) drops significantly a. In relation to the gases after the s, for example:
Heartburn and suffocation. So, what is the sign of the Most High who feeds me, according to Rabbi Yehoshua, the earth and the clouds?
. b isotope and its name is deuterium
It turns out, from an analysis of the water isotope, deuterium, that about 50% of all the water on Earth is probably from comets that hit the planet
Ours in the past. To understand this fact, we must first explain what an isotope is (more on isotopic in the Hebrew encyclopedia)."
"The Zohar supposedly depicts that the world is round" not as it were! states that the world is round and just. It doesn't matter what the Greeks said, by the way the Greeks learned a lot from the Jews
If the Book of Zohar really revealed to the Jews the secret of the round world, why didn't the Jews go out in ships to circumnavigate the world, conquer new territories, and find treasures, like the Europeans did when they realized that the world is round? What to do with??? Is this even a claim?
"A particularly embarrassing example of this kind can be found in a so-called divine decree that is mentioned in the Book of the Desert in the chapter "Nesha". This is an apparently unequivocal test designed to allow men to find out whether their wife is cheating on them with another man"
A deviant case is a miraculous case, in a miraculous way it becomes clear if the woman committed fornication, then "the bitter water came into her, and she put her stomach down, and her thigh fell", and on the other hand, "and if the woman was not defiled and pure, she was cleansed and seed was sown", and the Sages explain that if she gives birth in sorrow, she will give birth in abundance if She gave birth to blacks and gave birth to whites (Sutta XNUMX).
According to the Ramban (XNUMX:XNUMX) "And here in all the sentences of the Torah there is nothing dependent on a miracle other than this thing which is a miracle and a permanent miracle that will be done in Israel since most of them do the will of a place, so that they will be worthy to pour Shekinah into them."
We find a special halacha in the matter of the deviant, and it is the permission to delete the name of God. In the scroll of the Sota, the name of God is written, "The Lord will give you and so forth", and the scroll is erased by the water", "And the priest wrote these goddesses in the book and touched the water of the resurrection", and we were taught by Chazal (Kholin KmA.) Gadol Shalom Between a man and his wife, for the Torah said that the name of the Holy One written in sanctity shall rest on the water."
That deviant woman in these verses is a woman who went with a strange man and her husband warned her not to go with that man. After that, witnesses come who say they saw the same woman hiding with the foreign man. In other words, this is not a righteous woman whose husband just wants to find out if she is faithful or not.
If the woman does not want to drink the sin water, it is not mud water at all, as it is written in the words of the Bala that are written there, but water in which the Megillah was negotiated, which is written there in the name of God. So she does not drink and is not punished by stoning, etc. but she is forbidden to her husband and she gets a divorce without a written address.
The rest of the matters do not require a response... The Torah is not a science book, the main thing is that the Halacha is clear. The fact that the pig is the only one in the world that puts up a hoof and does not chew the cud is amazing that it was written 3500 years ago. But the reason it is written is according to Halacha that it does not meet the kosher requirements
Even so, the Gemara is written in a way of discussion and different sages express opinions, some of which were not accepted. The main truth is in halachic points such as the fish and pork. which may create offenses against the Torah.
which is pluto
Sub level makes fun of yourself thinking you are smart. Tell this to your children before bed...
To understand the Torah is a way of life that is not centered in the setting of this temporary world with animals and vanities
Like a baby doesn't feel the need to explore the womb. We are at the transit station the soul is eternal more interesting
It is the person himself and how to control his instincts.. maximum internal extraction ability, transcending materialism, humility and self-control. Cleanliness robs slander treason negative feelings. Giving without return is sacred, love, kindness, righteousness, values, a good name. All these and more build the person and prepare him for high spiritual levels for the great day of redemption. Like for two thousand years we prayed to return to Jerusalem and we won. Soon we will be fully redeemed
Avi
There are fish with scales and no fins - contrary to what you said. What word did you not understand here?
Uncle
Another universe created our universe.
Miracles
There are fish that have no scales and no fins
There is only one fish in the world whose Greek name is single fin
In the Torah it is not written just from the allusion to the Japanese for thousands of years sages courageously established this rule
It will seem simple logic or guesswork to you that to date no one has found a single fish, they should have found hundreds if not thousands
Don't believe but respect
What do you put in regardless of the theory?
Do I have time to be dragged into a mental confusion about this…?
Complete
Who created the universe?
I only have one short and simple one: Who, for all the spirits and fields, created the Creator???
Wait, there are actually also snakes that live in water
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_snakes
And in the Torah it is not written about fish, it is written about everything in the water
Avi
So it's at a level where we focus on the successful guess and ignore all the others that turned out to be wrong?
Avi
Let's assume your claim is true:
There are definitely those who can recognize. Let's start with the fact that whoever wrote the Torah - according to you (!) - did not know about this rule, and therefore must have both a fin and a scale. Second thing - apparently the scales developed at a later stage, in a fish that had fins (I don't know any fish without fins - otherwise it wouldn't have been able to swim). Now - all scaly fish have fins.
Simple logic. Sages knew how to use simple logic - didn't they? 🙂
And now, let me tell you the truth - there are fish with scales and no fins - for example the Indian Monopterus cuchia. How does this fit with evolution? Simple - this fish lost its fins because they were a disadvantage in its living conditions in the stream. And don't worry - the fish have already found an excuse for the existence of this fish. It is interesting that the excuse actually strengthens evolution, not weakens it.
So the Sages were wise, but they, and probably not your Creator either, did not know what was happening outside the Holy Land.
As we know, the signs of purity of the fish are the fin and the scales - only a fish with these two organs is kosher to eat. And here, the mishna renews for us in Mas. Nida (page na, page XNUMX): "Everything that has scales has a fin, and some that has a fin and does not have scales."
First, we must note that this saying of the Sage teaches about the tremendous divine empowerment of the Oral Torah, which establishes in such a decisive way a sweeping rule regarding all types of animals in the water: from the time of the Sage until today, about two million more types of fish and different living creatures have been discovered In water, which was unknown in the days of the Sages, and in all of them the rule of the mishna is fulfilled without any exception - every animal that has scales also has a fin.
However, aside from the astonishment at the power of the sages to determine rivets so unequivocally, a question arises here: in practice, when a person wants to check the kosher of the fish, he does not need to check the fin at all - it is enough to check if there are scales, and in any case it is certain If only the fin slept too.
Is there anyone in the world who can know all types of fish except the Creator?
Avi
I don't understand what the connection is...
Miracles…
(Tract Neda, Chapter XNUMX, Subsection XNUMX): "Anything that has scales has a fin, and some have fins and do not have scales" so far, and the Sages have indeed determined that there are fish with fins that do not have scales, but it is not possible for a fish that has scales without A fin, and it was also ruled in the Shulchan Aruch (Yud C. Peg Section C) and Rambam Laws of Forbidden Foods (PA XNUMX), and it is clear that both signs are needed to qualify the fish, both a fin and scales.
Avi
The answer to the title is probably "no". Do you think otherwise?
Sub-level... ignorance at best a liar twisting the truth at worst...
Fortunately, I know the truth and the transformation by heart.
Without going into the facts, the very thought that people who do not know the subject or the book will get a bag of lies from someone who "I swear a woman who farts my ass drinks mud water" is stoned...
Shows how easily the truth can be distorted. Because of liars like you, I carefully filter all information and news
The phenomenon of applying the Torah to science is an ancient phenomenon (and by the way, not unique, all junk science phenomena use this...)
Recently I have come across a new phenomenon, the application of the Torah to history.
During my visit to Rabbi Shasnik's lecture to his students, he sat and told about the Russian "Orient Express" train, only that according to him the reason Tsar Nikolai built it was so that a great Rabbi could visit a synagogue that was a long way from his home.
I also heard from a state rabbi who came to console mourners for Napoleon, a second before he invaded Russia. Only in his story the same Napoleon ran to consult the chief rabbi and the latter warned him against such an invasion and explained to him that he would lose the campaign. As we all know, Napoleon ignored the rabbi's advice and the results are known...
And of course scientific mistake #1 - menstrual blood is poisoned and poisonous.
Sages wrote that if a man looks at a woman's genitals, his children will be blind. And there is no connection between children's blindness and the father's looks.
Sages wrote that if a man kisses the female genital organ, his children will be mute. But there is no connection between the above things.
Sages determined that if the woman sits in the corner of her house and does not go outside, her children will be righteous. Again, there is no connection and there is evidence of the opposite situation - a woman who has never left her home, is raising a generation of very poor quality. A disintegrated and landed generation. And she herself lacks energy and desire to give of herself.
And of course scientific mistake #1 - menstrual blood is poisoned and poisonous.
Sages also stated that the woman stinks and the man never stinks - this also goes against reality and science. Every man stinks. One less and one more, but the male body sweats a lot more and I'm clearly not ascetic.
Sages also stated - the woman is not able to keep herself from farting and is not careful about it. After all, it is exactly the opposite, it seems that men fart much more, also in Paharsia and especially in Paharsia. They are the ones who can't keep themselves from farting
They wrote that the woman's genitals die from the stench. If there is no special problem, most women have clean genitals without any smell. It doesn't have the clumsiness and the hot sweat of the men's pubes. In addition, the Bartolin is fresh as water, compared to the semen which is not fresh at all.
They wrote that women are not careful about cleanliness and are lazy. Come on, they are the most pedantic in the world, to the point of mental illness, because of tens of thousands of years in which they were sent to clean and it has already turned into psychosis.
Write that all women are thieves. How is it possible? Most property crimes are committed by men. And let's not forget that they prevented women from owning property. The man also got what his wife worked hard to get. So who is the thief?
Are these not considered scientific errors?
The Zohar in general is full of visionary descriptions of the world, with a variety of creatures and layers that were not and certainly were not created.
And he was right, because he understood the moves of the Creator, and the meaning of the universe. He was a genius without equal.
Some food for thought
For those who are tight, what does the Creator need to be prayed for? If he had to, he would create robots that would do the work and know
Overcome the urge as well, this is not what was created in order to straighten out human beings and make them reach humanity, the entire Torah deals with
In humanity, we would not be animals, some claimed that without religions the world would look better, so no!!! Because the instinct was
An abyss would prevail, like Noah's generation, because all their thoughts were evil, and that is why the generation, the goal in our world, was destroyed.
To overcome evil and not let it rule, that's why there are wars to this day, even without the Torah there would be wars, and cruelty
The Jewish people's role is to convey the message and we are doing it on our own backs and the blood of our children, and we are succeeding [cheers]
We need to pray in order to remove the bad and let the good take over, who is fundamentally good and not radical, who will connect with the Creator directly and see the light, Einstein I'm sure saw the mathematical side of the Creator,
quotes
Hahahahaha I've never heard so much nonsense in one article!
Are you kidding about the presentation of "The Repentants"?
Look at the way you present your claims
Half of it is slander
All kinds of eavesdropping that you don't even understand the meaning of! And interprets them in a completely delusional way... As a former atheist, your arguments are embarrassing, sorry for the expression!
And secondly, there are all kinds of passages where you claim that there are rabbis who claim one way or another, with life and space and with Einstein who returned to repentance.... I have no idea which rabbis you are talking about! Mention names, if you are so honest and brave... because I don't know even one rabbi who claimed that Einstein repented, this is simply ridiculous!
I am not a religious person and even a former atheist....
But you're just hiding behind clearly untrustworthy sources not to mention finger snapping
And completely false
I am sure that one hour you will have the courage to confront a rabbi... It will be enough for you to get some sense and understanding about Judaism.
You have a lot of inner anger or misunderstanding about my interpretations or my thoughts
Not mad at Amnon or Carmela. Only the lack of understanding of my words and thoughts does you harm
If you did not understand something, you will be asked, maybe you will learn something, maybe not.
I personally do not invent all of them, everything was written a long time ago, maybe my interpretation is not clear to you,
Even movies in the cinema have fatal reactions, so what, it means that people don't enjoy the movies
And if you were smart, you would have seen that I wrote to Carmela that criticism can be passed on everything and everyone
And about you and Carmela easily, smart people don't criticize, they ask deep questions
of the problems that arise in your mind, instead of letting anger lead you, let your wisdom come out without fear of change
Your world view, your opinions, and don't be afraid of the ego that received a blow because that's the only way it progresses and gets stronger
I hope I won't hear any more criticisms, these are questions about what was said
Amnon Carmel
Both a smart person and with a sense of humor, really uplifting.
Invents superstitions and probably also lives by them.
1 Even the Creator does not force us to believe in him, he gave hints and asked and said
2 Black is also not black, and red is yellow, depends on the observer
3 You can call God. A great light, infinity, the creator, the creator, Aloha, and an alien and however you like
4 You can make fun of a cat, a mouse, two toothpicks, and insult everyone, including you, easily
5 Even parts of the Israelites at the giving of the Torah did not believe the sight of their poor, and their calf, and their mockery
6 I have no scientific proof if you are looking for one, and why are you looking or are you even interested, do you have a spark?
7 Do you have an answer to the passage I wrote for the five days of creation
8 1 Elohim, 2 Yah 3 Adonai, if you pay attention to the Torah, you will see that there is a CEO, a vice president, and those in charge of Mishmarat
9 The Creator is above all and therefore forbade his sons to take wives from here or for other creatures to present themselves here
10 In my opinion it is more difficult to be secular than a believer and don't tell me progress, nothing comes of it, maybe the improvement of life has gone astray
11 If I managed to get you out of the honor tax and respond in a slur, yes, more mature than you and smarter in my field
12 Suppose we take a spaceship and sit in other spheres and tear them apart and build them and live 1000 years
Will we find what we were looking for in space, because in the end we will die, so what will we live, work and die for?
Another ball and more will get tired but something new is always exciting and in the end we will die anyway so why all this.
13 After all, bringing children into this world is abuse, isn't it?
The last Camilla
Hocus Pocus or "miracles" will not help either, see an example from the generation of the desert who saw the miracles "Hocus Pocus"
in Egypt and survived 40 years in the desert by miracles and were still full of grievances and complaints.
There is a difference between knowledge and knowing, the religious priests as you call them possess vast knowledge but do not pretend to say that they really know. The record of "knowledge" of any person or machine is zero compared to the information which is infinite. Some of this information cannot be visualized by technology but in a mental way. The scientists invent different formulas and theories for themselves and when they want to achieve greater achievements they simply cancel and change years of theories that turn out to be incorrect.
To Meir
The snake "the evil one" according to the sages was created even before Paradise, he was given permission to enter by God of course who created him
And of course his job is to confuse us in order to condemn the person to duty and his death. Humans have the ability to decide in real time
For each subject, which way to choose. The snake is also good, otherwise we wouldn't have had this option.
In this world in this way of life
There is no exact measure and there is a lot of deception in the scriptures whether on purpose or not
I understood this from the question of why if there was a paradise, the tree of life and knowledge had to be put there, if there was a paradise
Where did the snake come from and who gave it permission to enter, and if it was so good there why have this experience,
Who is the depicted serpent, the devil, and what is his role, to confuse us and lead us astray or to prison or to death
How many people were there, don't bother with it, you will never know what the women's role there is unclear
One thing is for sure, there was even an evening, everyone was there
From the strange life I've had that has no other, I've learned to say this is what God wants me to have and that's how I survive
Regarding the women They are amazing in their role to penetrate into our brain and repair, those who escape suffer
There is a creator, 100%, he created, destroyed, and created until Noah took out the promise of the flood from him
I added so that you understand what lives and in what form, question| Are we the God of the ants? No
The great confusion of evolution between the creator whose evolution he started and as in the laboratory
There were trials and experiments until the Creator decided in his own image and likeness,
Even when the sons of God came here and took our women, he was angry and forbade them, from whom the generation of the Amalekites was created
According to the various Pharisees who were later destroyed by the Israelites
If you read the portion of the days of creation above, you will understand that everything was written a long time ago, which means there is a creator
Our main problem as human beings is that we don't want to see the truth, because we rest on our Sabbaths
Meir Ohion,
Ey promises to find you a source of funding for your book if you can give at least one predication derived from your "theory" that can be objectively tested in our lifetime.
By the way, many have already done this before you with great (literary) success, see for example "The Chariots of the Gods" by Erich von Däniken, "The Jews" by Mark Dem to name only two notable ones and this without offending many others that exist. And from a slightly different angle, have you heard of Scientology? In short, there is no shortage of different claims about our alien origins. The number of opinions on the subject and the fervor with which those who believe those opinions flatten their arguments are not supported by good evidence (one that can be seriously examined), but are suspiciously reminiscent of other structures of thought that suffer from the same failures, such as a lot of skepticism towards other approaches and science in general at the same time as little skepticism and criticality It does not exist at all towards their own claims. It is really very easy to convince that there are aliens and that they seeded the life/humans on the earth and that they possess information beyond his capabilities and that they transmit this information through mediums and other delusional methods. One well-documented and well-controlled event is enough to convince. Just as all secularists will be convinced of God's existence if he or an angel on his behalf appears in all his glory and glory and does some Hocus Pocus in the style of the Tanakh so that we will all be straightened out immediately, so it is enough for one alien to land with his sophisticated spaceship in Rabin Square, come out with a test tube in his hand and release a short statement to the press that In this test tube was kept the seed that they used to spread life on earth. Why do all those who believe in all these strange claims, a far-reaching mistake by all accounts, content themselves with "evidence" of the type of a blurry spot that flies on a security camera, or testimonies of people who, apart from their statement, have no evidence to support their story. Is it so hard to get some alien technological device that will prove beyond any doubt that the owner of this world comes from another world?
So it's true, you can always argue that that alien or God (which of course could be the devil as well) doesn't want us to know too much, because he's considering us of course, because we're still immature, still too childish. I guess by this analogy you and your ilk just grew up fast? 🙂
Here, too, there is a similarity between the alien enthusiasts and the ordinary religious, the attribution of unknown knowledge to an unknown entity and the need for priests to interpret and mediate. It is easy to make a mistake and think that scientists are the "priests" of science, but this is a common mistake and a complete mistake for a simple technical reason, in most fields it is difficult to encompass the relevant knowledge so that it is possible to make a contribution to increasing understanding, but not because the knowledge is not available and available to everyone. Anyone can conduct real research even without a sophisticated laboratory and terribly expensive equipment. Anyone can prove math theorems if only they can overcome the technical difficulty and have the same spark of creativity. And when he proves the sentence, it doesn't matter who and what it is, the scientific community will be forced to accept the proof as long as its logical structure is correct.
Religious priests and alien "priests" hold many "truths" backed by an honest and strong sense of "knowing". But a strong sense of knowledge, in itself, is not equivalent to knowledge... and this is what distinguishes science from all other approaches that claim to say something about the reality in which we exist. And who said crystals or astrology and didn't get it?
emir
I didn't mention souls at all, but animals that are in everything - is there agreement on this?
Is there a creator? Or was everything created with masterful precision but by chance?
Peace
1 Everything is alive everywhere, there are those with a soul (pulses of beats) and those that are sealed without a soul {sealed}
2 Soul = soul of the living God
3 In his image and in his likeness Tselem = a picture see, his likeness = looks like, resembles
What we understand from what is written not from what we think
The name itself was found in my hands in my hands, what do we understand that the Creator has hands,
The whole earth is full of his glory, very wise, radiating light, we will be ashamed to stand before him, everyone will respect him, and understand him
By and large, the dark matter of space is also alive and the sun and the star systems are placed and intertwined on the dark matter
By and large we sail, always from the outside and inside, whether in a plane, a spaceship, a submarine, ,, it all depends on the density of the water
Thanks for the informed and well-articulated responses.
Lavi: Even if the book was written at the time you point out, there are still certainties and knowledge there that do not reflect Ramat's level
The technological sophistication at that time. Also let me point out another fact about the number of people you are talking about.
It is true that it is written 60 rivua, which is 600 thousand, but it is also written that they came out of pentagons, that is: 5 times and see it is no wonder
Chauvinism because it's about everyone the same. Such an amount of people can surely testify, can't they?
To Meir: The meaning is that human qualities are not attributed to the Creator, because these qualities are also created and do not apply to the Creator in Bran
In pure scientific studies, it has been proven that there are animals in everything in the world, including inanimate things such as a chair, a table, a stone, etc.
Regarding the horn with the volume knob and the landing on the mountain, are you implying that there was already an amplification system and spacecraft back then?
1′ It may be that it is all one big nonsense, it may not be
2 I don't know who said he doesn't have personality traits or violent chariots
When Moshe asked to see him, God told him that you will not be able to see my face because you will die
We see the infinite as a sight and a mirror as the glory of Jehovah, as a consuming fire
We made him smoke like the smoke of the lamb, and the whole mountain was greatly terrified. XNUMX And the sound of the trumpet was loud and very loud; Moses will speak, and God will answer with a voice. XNUMX And Jehovah came down on Mount Sinai, to the top of the mountain
A non-living chair or table
And in addition, Hashem covered Moshe's eyes with Hashem's hands
What is the sound of a horn going up like a horn with a volume knob
Why was the mountain horrified at the landing of Hashem on the mountain
How can it be that in the Indian Torah of 5000 years ago air battles are described
And it was before my weight, and I put you in the middle of the fence; And I lay my hands on you, until my death. XNUMX And I removed my hand, and you saw my back; And my face, they will not see.
In a book written a thousand years after the events described in it, it is written that 600 people saw the voices (by the way, a chauvinistic book because only men are crowded, with the women and children it is 3 million).
And if the author of the book wrote a billion people, then would you find that a billion people saw the voices?
If the Creator exists in the imagination of the believers, then could it be that at a certain time millions of believers saw and heard the same imagination?
The uniqueness of the Creator in Judaism, according to those in the know, is that he cannot be attributed human qualities, nor appearance.
Regarding aliens (if they exist) they have already described them in one way or another, which is not done regarding the Creator. Why?
Just like a table or a chair cannot understand what the carpenter who made it is.
The hardest question there is
If we saw it we would believe it
Do aliens exist?
From my words it is impossible to conclude that there is a creator because the only place where he exists is in the imagination of the believers.
From your words I conclude that there is a creator?
Friends, everything is true
The main problem is the real understanding of the information that flows through humans to us
We won't know until time permits. And this is from heaven on purpose so that we know something, that we are not alone,
On the other hand, do not make a person an idol or God, because no one knows the truth
Because by and large our Creator also decides according to the existing situation, for example the fifth day, for example the generation of the flood, for example Sodom
Everything is according to the rate of human progress, and he will not rule out extermination either, when there is no progress
In my opinion, humanity has not passed the age of 13, just understand how stupid we are
A nice answer but not accurate because there were those who said and treated themselves and the words were absorbed and applied.
Although there was no truth in their words.
On the other hand, there were those who said without referring to themselves and their words are consistent to this very day.
How could they know if they didn't investigate and find out themselves?
Just because someone said something doesn't mean they were telling the truth.
In ancient times, in order for something to be absorbed and applied, it had to be attributed to a higher being.
Thanks to Avi Blizovsky and Meir Ohion for the responses.
And since this is our role "human beings" another question in your inheritance.
It is true that the results of the studies and the information are transmitted to us by humans,
But there were people who gave incredibly accurate information and testified that they did not investigate and discover but
They received it from a "higher power" and did not appropriate the news and findings.
And all this without developed technological means like nowadays, perhaps?
The simple logic
By and large, it's all speculation that the root is problematic
When I met a person who saw fortune some of the things he said were true and some were not true
We learn from this that any information that comes from above also comes from below
Wisdom is knowing how to recognize the right and see the deception
I am generalizing the intention this time, no human being has the ability to see everything correctly
Therefore, what is written in all Torahs is true and false
Peace be upon you.
In any case, these are human beings, whether these are the ones living today and at sea or those who lived in the past. Each according to his knowledge and ability.
To my father Blizovsky.
You are very right. You have to ask questions, research, reach results and get answers.
This is what has been done throughout history, and you have another question,
Who trusts the answers and their truth?
Two creatures that need to learn to live with each other on the same level of equality that when each knows the feelings of the other, shows them to him and corrects them, each in his own way, to
In fact, there are all kinds of currents in Judaism and all kinds of hypotheses about what the end will look like, which is actually the beginning of the beginning
I didn't see all the existing possibilities of the beginning and the end and I thought about it a lot
According to my theory, the purpose of man is to return to paradise and live an eternal life there with the trees of knowledge and life
And when the snake or the devil comes we will know after all the suffering of this world we will know that we are tired of slavery, of working hard because we have already finished this experience and we do not want to repeat the mistakes we made. And then the question is asked, but others will do it, then no, there will not be others, only Adam and Eve, of which all the souls here today will be composed, and harmony will break out. It may be that there will be an experience with other fruits, we do not know exactly what
By and large, your mind will develop and you will shed unnecessary ego anger. Cut them only when necessary
bye Man's purpose in the world is to ask questions. That's exactly what you're doing right now
a question :
What is the purpose of man in the world?
Meir, I asked about this question and they explained it to me, and what I conclude from the answers:
1. Religious Jews, ultra-Orthodox, traditionalists or whatever - for them, the Messiah must come, there is no such thing as the Messiah not coming.
2. We are now in the year 772. In gematria, 5,000 = 5,772, and another XNUMX because it is XNUMX, that is, according to the Hebrew calendar, we are in the year XNUMX.
If the Messiah is expected to come by the end of the year 6,000, that means that in the next 228 years he will come, or after 228 years.
3. In the book of Ezekiel, the war between Gog and Magog is told. In this war, to the best of my recollection, the people of Israel are attacked by many nations and at the end of the war the people of Israel are victorious, and Gog's army is eliminated. The belief is that this war is expected to take place before the coming of Messiah and the end of days. In addition, it is written that Gog's army will come on horses. Apparently, the intention was a prophecy that was expected to happen in those days, during the time of the Bible. Biblical prophecies are not relevant to our time.
And by the way, when I asked what will happen if the Messiah does not come until the year 6000 and after (according to the Hebrew calendar), what do we do in such a situation? The answer was - that there is no such thing, it cannot be.
Well, I'll give you another of my passages about the seas
And the heavens and the earth, and all their host, who are these "their army" what kind of army does our God have, what is it "and they can"
All the health came from space to connect and see the Creator's creation
If we assume that each day from A-Day F is actually a period of years that passed on our globe then the seventh day
It has not yet been written, it only confirms that it is the Sabbath day" on the seventh day, his work that he did; and rested on the seventh day,
According to my Pharisee
The next period is a period of sabbath when man will not work the way he works today and science is moving towards that
Right now we are living on the sixth day: it will be for you, for you to eat. We will rule over the animals and cultivate the land to eat, not later
What will be exactly no one knows, but the seventh day is missing for Adam because it is not written,
The religious claim that the ball lived 5850 years approximately true but only after the beginning of time
And when the religious claim that the coming of the Messiah in 6000 years can be super true if you put everything together you will understand
that the sixth day is the beginning of the 6000 years we were destined to experience (farm) and the following period the seventh day
If there is anything that can fund my non-profit book. mitzvah
in the book of Genesis
It is written on the day the animals were created the large crocodiles were created, why is it written the large crocodiles and not the giraffes or the elephants
The only explanation I understood is that all the dinosaurs look like the crocodiles are built, armored skin, a set of two U-shaped legs, the same shape as the legs, today's crocodiles are not big, maybe very long,
As far as I'm concerned, there is no other explanation than that it was the time of the dinosaurs. From there I drew a different conclusion every day that is mentioned
He was in our ball for a while, how long? You will understand by yourself at the end
You have to be stupid not to believe that everything was created and not created by itself, on the fourth day the entire star system is for us
Day XNUMX The heavens and the earth = space = there is water and the earth = when the sphere was created it was chaotic and God arranged it and saw that it was good = checked the creation before continuing
Day XNUMX And God made the sky an atmosphere = only on the second day were the sky and the water created? Where did the water come from?
Day XNUMX and behold, the dry land; = the period of the creation of the continents and also the grass, the fruit, which sows seed, and all the green in our world,
Day XNUMX And they were for signs and times, and for days and years. The star system sun, moon was created so that we could learn to count,
They were also created on the 1st day, only on the 4th day he fixed them finally
On the 1st day, God created the great crocodiles. The period of the fishes 2 then the period of the flying ones 3 after the period of the dinosaurs XNUMX then the period of "the creeping animal that spawned the waters." What kind of animals did the water flow from here? It is clear that the animals evolved from the water. Science is right and so was the Torah a long time ago.
Friday
Beasts and beasts and beasts of the earth, Lamina = the new animals after the disappearance of the dinosaurs and all kinds of primitive animals that were in the sphere animals that would be used by man and for him, the animals that evolved from the water on the fifth day disappeared
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; From this you will understand that our God has advisors or wise health that are similar to us, there is a continuation I have no place here
Friends, those who do not believe that there is a creator, are not transparent with themselves, if I had the money to sit down and write my interpretations for you, you would understand many more things that our interpreters interpreted
A question for all non-believers? what are you doing here There are magical places in the world to settle down
anonymous:
There is (absolutely not!) any doubt that the ancient Greeks knew that the world was round and even calculated its radius long before the Sages of the Torah were still a mischievous smile in their father's eyes.
There is no doubt that the world is round and the Sages of the Torah knew this before everyone, I am not saying that there were no other Sages except the Sages of the Torah, but the Sages of the Torah knew this first...
It's really not worth the effort to write a serious comment anymore
"I'm sure they understand the topics intellectuals talk about no less well than those who define themselves as intellectuals" - I'm sure not. You and tilapia are proof of that. How about a little modesty - don't you think that a professor who has been researching a certain subject for sixty years knows and understands it better than you? As I see from the little we have discussed about Judaism, you and Amnon do not understand anything. I have seen similar behavior many times, that the people of the natural sciences fail to understand the essence of the humanities. (and vice versa). I see myself as a person rooted in both fields, so I can judge with some confidence. Your words testify more than anything else - "the humanities are a great exaggeration of very little truth". And if you don't understand, I will never be able to convince you.
(And as you know all the creationists' claims in advance, I suppose I can know a few things about you - a. You don't understand modern art and think it's nonsense b. The concept of narrative is foreign to you and the truth is in my hands [... fill in the blank] c. You are not a skeptic regarding the question of knowledge and the epistemological recognition D. If you listen to classical music, it is mostly Mozart and Bach. E. You believe that humanity is progressing (and I don't know that Hegel said that either...) F. Allowances for young people who study Torah are a waste in your eyes G. Any humanities researcher can say what he wants, And really, after some time there is a researcher who says completely opposite things, etc., etc.)
I don't know which creation is greater, spirit or nature, but this is not a matter-of-fact question, but a value question. Given that spiritual creations and human culture exist in the world, how do you understand them.
A poem or story is not science, yet you wanted it to be written in an understandable way like mathematical theorems!
I don't know the context of the article, but note on which site it was published. Not exactly the home site of the "sneaks".
I wasn't talking about the context at all, but about the following analogy: converts mix up half scientific truths (natural sciences) and many lies and come to the conclusion that the Torah is true - > Amnon mixes up half things from Judaism and many mistakes and comes to the conclusion that the Torah is a lie.
Their method is similar. I'm not talking about the conclusion.
And here are some more silly things:
A. The section about the Zohar - because Amnon doesn't know that the Zohar was written by Rabbi Moshe de Leon in the 13th century?
B. The shape of the world - already in the sages they probably believed that the world is round (although the land is only in the 'upper' part) - see Rabbi Zoin's book
third. "In the Torah in the Bible and in the Mishnah" - Torah is part of the Bible (we are supposed to write in the Torah and the Bible, although he did not bring examples from the Bible). In the Mishnah - he means the Talmud (at least from the examples he gave).
I don't think it is difficult for natural scientists to understand intellectuals.
On the contrary - I'm sure that they understand the topics intellectuals talk about no less well than those who define themselves as intellectuals.
More than that - in my opinion - this whole name "humanities" is a great exaggeration of very little and the truth is that precisely the natural sciences and mathematics are the greatest creations of the human spirit and they are the ones that will eventually lead to the understanding of that spirit.
A poem or a story is not science and if you didn't understand that I understand that, then the problem is with you (and it turns out that you didn't understand because otherwise you wouldn't have put a question mark on the matter).
In general, it seems to me that you did not understand the context of the article.
It was not written for those who anyway think that the Torah is not divine and the words of the sages did not come from the mouth of the Shekinah.
It was written as a response to the words of those who claim exactly this and see in the Torah and the words of the Sages - not parables but truth.
I guess I don't need to point out that they are all religious and that the misunderstanding you are against - if it exists at all - is first and foremost the religious people themselves.
After all, you don't need to tell me that the Torah was not written by God and that the Sages made quite a few mistakes.
I'm afraid that because of your history you are exaggerating about the complements but in any case - you are not the target audience of the article and the target audience are people like Zamir Cohen (mentioned at the beginning of the article).
Michael:
Right. I do not care. The discussion is not general about the truth of the Torah. We will have such a discussion another time.
Sages were wrong about several things, and their basic approach is to accept modern science (of their time, of course).
You don't need to convince me that modern science is more correct than the science of the Persian Empire in the first centuries AD (the science of the Sages).
These are mistakes in matters of science, but Sages often speak in parables. In fact, in a rough estimate, scientific assertions are a few percent of the Gemara (and maybe fractions of a percent), while the words of an Agada are about thirty percent.
Only those who are not familiar with the Sages can think that the legends of Rabbi Bar Bar Hanna are real (for example - "I saw a ram of his day who was on Mount Tabor, and his neck was three furlongs long, and his head was four furlongs, and he was alive. He threw dung and blocked the Jordan").
Is this a mistake, and there really isn't a baby ram this size??
The parable is comprehensible (I said it already!!), just not at first sight, you have to sit down and research and learn.
Of course, literary writing and poetic writing and moral writing are not scientific writings. The natural scientists do not need an interpretation (of course you will not be able to read Euclid and Ptolemy today, but they can be translated into the scientific form accepted today). But intellectuals write things that are open to different understandings. A poem or a story is not science, and if you don't understand that, the problem is with you...
In fact, this is a problem of the separation of the domains. Intellectuals find it difficult to understand the natural sciences and vice versa. You still have a lot to learn... (and me too of course)
Jonathan:
You don't care who wrote the Torah, but in terms of religion it is very important.
According to the religion, the Torah was written by God, and when they show that there is a mistake in it, it shows that the kind of God they believe in could not have written the Torah.
Sages were wrong about many things and being close to nature does not change the fact that they knew nature much less well than we do. There are many reasons for our improved knowledge of nature - starting with the accumulation of many years of experience (including that of the Sages), since, as we know, humanity as a whole is capable, thanks to language and thanks to relative immortality, to learn more than a single individual is capable of, and so on with the availability of research tools and methods that did not exist in my day Sage.
Their mistakes are mistakes and not complements.
When someone writes a parable that cannot be understood, it does not bring any benefit and I have no doubt that not bringing benefit was not among the sages' intentions when they wrote their words.
The story with writing until the end of all generations is simply ridiculous. They were not smarter than Einstein or Penrose or Hawking or any other serious scientist who manage to write their words in a way that does not require any interpretation.
The person who wrote the article did not fail in the way you describe. You are the one who has failed in keeping all kinds of beliefs (and motivations) that come from religion.
Michael - Every sentence in the Gemara can be interpreted in several ways. Even simple things can be understood in several ways. If the Sages wanted to be detailed and not allow freedom in interpretation, they should have written until the end of all generations. This is how it is in every essay that is examined under a magnifying glass (except for mathematical essays...). This is especially true in parables and fables. There are many possible interpretations, just as there are many possible interpretations in Le Fontaine's parables, in Shakespeare or in Rachel's poems.
Improbability refers to surrealism = cannot be understood as describing concrete reality = open to conceptual interpretation. Again - Sages did not throw words into the air. There is a reason they wrote what they wrote.
I don't care who wrote the Torah. If he is God he cannot be wrong at all. And if he is a count from the House of David, he cannot be wrong about the rabbit. Either way, a mistake regarding rabbits is not possible (regarding raising the bar. If it was written in the Torah that the rabbit secretes dopamine in the brain stem, I wouldn't mind calling it a mistake...)
Sages were wrong (and admitted their mistakes in front of the nations of the world). The Torah was wrong (maybe). The matters I mentioned are not mistakes!
If you have no new claims, let's try the discussion here, and return to the principle point - how is it possible that a person who criticizes those who repent is a failure in so many fundamental things from the spiritual world, which he knows nothing about.
Jonathan:
You are the one who wrote in reference to parables "They are so improbable that this is surely a symbolic midrash, and various commentators over the generations have tried to stand for its essence."
So you should decide.
If the parables are comprehensible, many commentators would not need to try to assert their essence.
I think that in the matter of the rabbit the people could certainly be wrong and in fact I am convinced that this is what happened.
What is special about the rabbit (and a few other examples) is that it is not about the words of the Sages (who did make a lot of mistakes) but what is claimed in the Torah that was spoken by God.
More pitfalls that I forgot to write down about Amnon:
"In the story called "The Exploits of Gilgamesh. It is told there about an almighty god who made hocus pocus, created plants, animals and man in only six days."
The exploits of Galgamesh describe a flood. In a story that parallels in some respects the Noah case.
Most of the complements are understandable. I guess you haven't tried even one. Talmud commentators tried to explain the conceptual content of each legend (for example the Rambam Rashi the Maharal the Maharsha the Hasidic thinkers and the Rai'a). Some parables are difficult to understand. Were sages stupid when they wrote them? Did they just throw words around? To claim such a level of stupidity on the part of the Sage would be just stupidity.
Bunny -
Main line of defense - it is not possible for people who live in an agricultural society to be wrong about such an obvious thing. This is not a complex claim, and every farmer simply knows it, surely a belief system (kosher) based on hundreds of years of tradition (it is forbidden to eat rabbit...). It is not about claims that people from the time of the Torah have no knowledge of (the world is 6000 years old or the moon is made of cheese) but about clear things. If there is a contradiction to what we know, we probably need to understand the Torah differently.
It's not because of her holiness! Even if in the Galgamesh stories it will be written that X raises a graha, it is clear to me that they saw X, whatever X may be, and he raised a graha, the raising of a graha will be understood:
Possible ways of explanation (and others can be suggested)
A. A rabbit is not the animal we are familiar with.
B. Elat Gera refers to a broader (but inclusive!) action than the limited definition listed in the Ben Yehuda dictionary. For example, eating feces or a third stomach.
And again - the Torah cannot be wrong about the rabbit. point. (To claim such a level of stupidity on the part of the writer of the Torah would be just stupidity as above).
A.
Jonathan:
I will repeat my words because it seems that they were not understood:
If someone formulates a parable that no one can understand - that someone is a fool.
When you say "from experience" that they were wise, you are probably trying to neutralize from this experience all the cases where they used parables that no one understands.
Regarding the rabbit - you should decide which line of defense you take.
The rabbit does not live, although it does all kinds of other things.
Even if all of these things mistakenly seem to you to raise a hare - they have no value in the case that the rabbit is not a rabbit, but, in this case - the hare is also not a hare and raising is actually eating corn.
Michael –
Hagit (130) also shows great ignorance.
A. "Her stomach is pinching" her stomach is not 'pinching'. The verse is 'to press the stomach', and this is a rather rare word in the biblical language, which I do not know the meaning of, but it is certainly not related to the root CBT
B. 'Nafikha' in Aramaic is 'swollen', and is not related to the modern slang word 'inflated'. The stomach expands in some way, it has nothing to do with farting. Perhaps whoever made the link that Hagit made did so with vulgar humor, or he just mixed Talmudic Aramaic with modern slang and showed ignorance...
Sages were not stupid at all, and this I can say from many years of familiarity with their writings. The parables they wrote can often be understood, and as I wrote, the books of commentaries deal with this. Why did they see fit to write some of their words in parables? This is the style! And it appears in thousands of writers and supplementary governors. To understand the interpretation you have to enter their culture and their eyes, and modern midrash and legend scholars try to do this, often with success. There are individual Midrashes that are called 'Plea Midrashes', where the event described is surrealistic (a certain rabbi enters an eye, meets a crocodile, speaks to a skull, etc., etc.) that it is difficult to give an adequate interpretation, but surely these events do not describe reality but a mental idea. The 'midrash' (that is, the conceptual proverbial part) in the literature of Sages is a vast field, encompassing about a third of the Babylonian Talmud. Understanding a certain passage (pregnancy of a snake and the above examples) requires familiarity with this style, which is not rare at all.
Why would I single out a rabbit as the modern pet, because that's how people talk every day? We must understand that Hebrew has gone through many incarnations, and the Hebrew Language Academy at the beginning of the last century (at that time - 'Vad Halshon') took the words in the Torah and adapted them to live without a modern Hebrew name. Before the academy there were different popular interpretations, which also did the same process. A view of spoken Hebrew as the reasonable interpretation of a verse in the Torah is anachronistic and indicates a lack of familiarity with the study of the Hebrew language. And do you know who they are - the donkey, the echo, the fattening and the singer? And did you know that a turtle is a lizard (and the modern turtle in general originates from the term 'turtle wagons', when its armor reminds the structure of the wagon) and that it breathes a kind of mouse! Just as 'electricity' in Ezekiel is not 'electricity', so too can a rabbit and a rabbit be animals of the highest quality!
Although, it is clear that an ox is an ox, and a donkey is a donkey. Is a rabbit really a rabbit? This requires a linguistic study that is wider than my abilities. In any case - it is clear that the writer of the Torah knew the rabbits well, and if he claimed that they were Ma'alot Gera, he knew what he was talking about. This is not complicated anatomy, but simple vision! If the hare is indeed the modern hare, I copy you a passage I found on the Internet. Whether you are right or not, I have no doubt that there are mistakes that simply cannot be made, such as claiming that a rabbit does not live.
The quote - "In the book "The Physiology of Animals" (by Schmidt Nelson, published together by the Hapoalim Library, pages 19-20) the physiologist Nelson details the digestion process in ruminants, compared to that done in rabbits. In ruminants, there are microorganisms that break down the cellulose in the digestive system at least twice. Nelson claims that the same action is done in rabbits, only externally. What can be called "increasing external rumination". In his second book "Food and energy" (from 72, not translated into Hebrew, on page 9) Nelson identifies the eating of dung in rabbits and hares as raising rumination in any matter. Eating dung in the rabbit and the rabbit can be identified with increased rumination anatomically, and some researchers compare the two. Already more than fifty years ago, the interesting coordination between coprophagy in rabbits and the mention of migration in the Bible was noticed. Rabbi Menachem Kosher in his book "Torah Shlomo" discusses this topic, and raises the possibility that eating the dung of the rabbit and the rabbit is an increase in migration mentioned in the Torah. Rabbi Amitai Ben-David also expanded the idea in his book "Shichat Chulin" (page XNUMX). In addition, Rabbi Amitai brings in his book the opinion of the researchers on the subject, who discovered three types of intestines in the rabbit, where the food passes between them for another digestion process, which is presented by some researchers as the same as the process of emigration in cattle. These scientific data, by the way, also explain the incessant movements of the rabbit's mouth."
And regarding the interpretations:
it's really pretty.
Are you suggesting that they spoke in such parables that no one could interpret? Were these sages wise or foolish? If you have read the litigation here you will surely understand what I mean when I say that according to your description they resembled Hugin.
Also the idea of interpreting "rabbit" as something else is similar to me to the idea of interpreting "yes" as "no" - why not? (or in translation "is that so?")
Jonathan:
See response 130
Peace.
The article was published two years ago, and I only just saw it, but I was so shocked that I saw fit to respond. \
First, a few words about myself - I repeat the question, having a broad background in Judaism, now at the beginning of a master's degree in a scientific subject. I don't believe the nonsense of Zamir Cohen and his ilk, I don't support any conspiracy theory, and I don't attack any established theory of science, especially in areas I'm not knowledgeable about. What's more -
Amnon, your words are simply a shame, and a demonstration of ignorance and ignorance, just like those converts. Although you may have scientific knowledge, your understanding of Judaism is so embarrassing! To make certain claims about a field in which you have neither an arm nor a leg is a scandal just like the claims of the converts on 'scientific' subjects. Jewish studies is also a serious field, and people, whether at university or yeshiva, work for many years to understand it, but there are some basic things that an educated person should know. I will agree a few things:
1. 'Stick your stomach and drop your hip' - where did you get the grotesque description of 'farting'. I've never heard that before. Although apparently this is a traumatic physical event of any kind that the deviant woman goes through. There is no 'scientific' problem with this. A person who believes in God or a higher power can claim that a certain ritual will cause a physical event. You who do not believe do not have to accept it, but in the system of beliefs and opinions of the believer it is legitimate. I myself am a complete atheist, but so far I have not seen a scientific article that addresses the question of God's programming. This is clearly a non-scientific field. The believer believes because he feels a divine presence in his life, and to argue 'why he formulates baseless theories about God' is the same as asking why we formulate a solid theory about the external world and its existence, when there is no reason to assume that we are not in some kind of matrix. Any discussion of these issues is philosophical and not scientific. Those who believe in God can logically and systematically accept the claim 'God in His own glory will cause...' In fact, this is what God does at every moment.
2. "As you can learn from the verse:...I will bring out a mouse..." This is a quote from the writer, who in his great ignorance thinks that the ways of studying midrashites are a verse. Those who do not distinguish between a verse and the words of a Sage should not even come close to talking about Judaism. Not everyone has to know all the topics in the world, but sages have already said (no - not a verse) - 'a caveat to wisdom is silence'.
For the very claim - sometimes the words of the Sages conflict with what we know today. Several reasons to speak: the first is that they were wrong. When Sages compared their words to the scientific wisdom of those days, they retracted them, as can be seen in the Sanhedrin about a cow that took its mother and at Pesachs (or Irubin?) about the course of the sun. Undoubtedly sages would retract all their words in the face of modern science. Admittedly, the Sage had extensive knowledge on various subjects. And especially in anatomy, and in this (for sociological reasons related to kosher) they were even the leaders in their time, but they certainly did not know as they know today.
A second reason is that many times Sages speak in a midrashic way, we would tell a story of action when the intention is a symbolic parable. In this way one must understand most of the different stories about the animals (the time of conception, the mouse that cut through the earth, the venom of the cats). Errors concerning the chambers of the heart and trachea are probable, but such basic errors of people who were so close to nature (they did not sit in an office, but lived in an agricultural society!) are so unlikely that this is surely a symbolic midrash, and various commentators over the generations have tried to stand for its essence.
Is it possible for the Torah to write about the rabbit and the rabbit being above Meli Gera, when it is something that can be seen with the eyes? And what's more, a rabbit is not from the 'animal corner' but there is daily interaction with him! It is clear to me that there is another meaning to this animal. I am not well versed in the philological analysis of rabbit and hare, but other animals are certainly not the animals of modern Hebrew, for example a turtle is a type of lizard, and many more in this case do not have the modern meaning.
In my opinion, as someone who has studied the Bible, the interpretation of 'day' as a period of time is reasonable, but it is a matter of taste. But the 'taste' required is from people who have studied the Bible seriously, and not from the ignorant and the people of the lands who think that 'I will bring out a mouse..' verse.
I apologize for the harsh tone of my words, but if it is justified to express harshly against Zamir Cohen, in my opinion it is permissible to express this in the face of any other ignorance, even if it is from the Faculty of Humanities (Bible, Israel Thought, Jewish Studies...) and not exact science.
Lamnon - please accept my words humbly, and stop defaming Judaism with the techniques you borrowed from converts.
And to the editor - just as you (I assume) adhere to scientific seriousness in everything related to exact sciences, and will not approve an unfounded and superficial article, please do the same in less precise, but equally serious fields of knowledge - the humanities and social sciences.
Dahad Shambin
Regarding your words in 589, ask yourself what the rabbi is asking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLoz7KuLU2w&feature=related
Dear Amnon
You may not know but everything you said here is pure bullshit
Here is the rabbi's response to your nonsense:
http://www.hidabroot.org/ARDetail.asp?BlogID=111214
I hope they don't censor my comment because it doesn't suit you
"In other words, God himself will make those unfaithful women fart" I was floored by this sentence!!! Well done ))))
I did not understand
their opinion:
Tell me: are you kidding me? Is the logical punishment to give to the rapists is to eliminate the gang members of the rapist?
I'm tired of messing with you.
From * Al
"My sons" is not sons but a group definition
Rape of a girl less than 3 speaks only about the legal issue [which is only half written] not about the essential issue
"What God will do" is also the severity that is perceived by the public and in turn the most severe punishment is excommunication "and God has set apart for evil from all the tribes of Israel". Deuteronomy XNUMX
Every act of death refers, of course, to the Bible, except for the example of Pinchas's act, which was an act of deliberate public corruption "and he brought the politician near his brother" "and why are you crying at the door of the tent" and in this it is his duty to revive Amalek who was a corrupt people from the beginning "does not fear God" [Today they would try to tame again in prison - something that will never happen - and life in prison is just dying in agony]
Even more than that in "species" which is the opening and is the justification for all moral corruption as Avraham said "because I only said there is no fear of God in this place and I killed myself because of my wife's word"
goodbye
I understand that he has finally decided to release us from his clutches.
There is indeed nothing that stands in the way of desire and it is possible that we have finally reached the hour of desire.
God willing.
And why would the site be closed in less than two years if it has already existed for 13 years? We have a very strong desire to gain real knowledge. Illusory knowledge is only a waste of time.
Hello father
I entered this site "accidentally" I was looking for something else on Google and I came here, the few days I corresponded with you revealed a few things to me.
First, that Einstein was wrong in his statement about "the universe and stupidity" because there is something bigger and it is the "ego" and self-pride of man.
Second, that the name of the website "Hidan" does not belong to what actually reads here, you do not want to know beyond what you have learned.
Third, according to the development of the human will, it seems to me that this site will be closed in less than two years.
You can leave this comment and laugh at me with your friends if it doesn't happen, but you will also eat your hat when you discover that you had the opportunity to learn something different about reality, true and unique.
Fourthly, my desire means to me that it is time to leave the forum for the time being, so maybe we will see each other or maybe not everything depends on the will because "there is nothing that stands in the way of the will" we are totally governed by it.
Good luck to everyone, I learned a lot of things even though I have nothing to do with them, but who knows? Time will tell...
Love the other because there is no other than the other.
All good friends
Moses
their opinion:
It's not nice to lie.
There are no deceptions there, and the fact that they discuss what is considered rape these days and say there that it did not happen at all means that all your embellishment regarding rape is irrelevant. For example, it says there that a rape of less than 3 years old is not rape, so what do I care what is done to rapists? What's more, this unfortunate sentence of yours is not clear at all - not only because it is actually about punishing the children of rape, but also because it is not about the law but what God will do.
In short - every piece you wrote on the subject is nothing but one big lie.
You should read the second section before you answer, because it specifically discusses death law that does not require a court.
He also talks about cases that actually happened.
Again, why lie?
In conclusion - you demonstrate very well what religion does to morality.
Father, you understood what I meant,
– I have no problem with what you filter
I am not ungrateful I really enjoy your excellent website
Good morning everyone
Rah - you write:
Moshe, you didn't understand. You are once again drifting into mysticism and strange sayings, what "brutal development press"?.
The desire for a good life is very simple. When I'm cold I need something to warm me up. When I'm hot I need something to cool off. This. There are no hidden meanings beyond that. There is also nothing to investigate "this desire" as you suggested because there is nothing there.
So I will explain to you what I am talking about even though it is difficult for me.
There is a power that we will not discover nor can it be seen wearing any material and no matter how many microscopic devices they invent, it is called "will" that is found in every detail from the smallest particles to the coarsest material.
This force is a force that moves everything in a pre-planned course, the result of which is "eternal perfection".
You say there is nothing to investigate, man by nature always checks what he perceives with his five senses, meaning he only checks what is reflected outside, I say check this desire that makes you search outside and then you will see that everything is found
In their opinion, no one is filtering you, you are falling for keywords that have been put on purpose to cool heated debates with absolutely nothing to do with you. You shouldn't have messed with my name, it's not that kind of keyword.
Ab*, hello
Indeed, even though I am cold-tempered by nature, they managed to upset me a little here
Keep filtering…
I would love to correspond with you as well in the Talmud there is an expression a knife sharpens with a knife I enjoy debates
goodbye
M*Kal, hello
The first link mainly refers to the permissiveness of rape [apart from other pointless deliberate deceptions] and here in the book Shulchan Aruch part Orach Haim, the Ram, section XNUMX, writes "And among you, the rebels and the criminals against me are those who are of nine measures - the sons of A-N-W-S-H Bnei Shenuah, etc." and its origin is from the Talmud Tractate of Vows, page XNUMX, page XNUMX, meaning that those "criminals" who rape deserve recognition from within Israel
The second link refers to the death penalty that is required by the court and here in the Torah it is written "According to two witnesses or three, the death of the dead shall not be executed according to one witness" - it turns out that the sinner whose intention is only the fulfillment of his lust and not a public announcement of contempt for the laws of the Torah and morality in which the public corruption is intentional - no He will die forever, and indeed it is written in the Mishnah in the treatise of Mechot XNUMX:XNUMX, "Rabbi Tarpon and Rabbi Akiva say that if we were in the Sanhedrin for a n-h-r-g a-d-m m-e-v-l-m" and all this because there is no The purpose of the affirmative is dead, but the definition of the seriousness of the sin and the prevention of the individual's corruption of the public by defying the law, and this is how the Torah interprets it: "And all Israel shall hear and see, and shall not blaspheme any more" which is the whole purpose of "And the forest of evil from among you"
There is more to add but even so it is quite long
There was peace
Moshe, you didn't understand. You are once again drifting into mysticism and strange sayings, what "brutal development press"?.
The desire for a good life is very simple. When I'm cold I need something to warm me up. When I'm hot I need something to cool off. This. There are no hidden meanings beyond that. There is also nothing to investigate "this desire" as you suggested because there is nothing there.
Peace be upon you
From the sentence "the desire for a better life and this is curiosity" I will take the most important word and it is "desire".
Everything is from the inanimate, the living, the living, and the talking that you see in front of you, and you will discover that there is more to it... Everything is activated by a driving force called the "desire to receive pleasure, to receive fulfillment" and it is the "press of development." that pushes him unconsciously, if there was no desire and lack to receive pleasure and pleasure in a person, he would not move a millimeter, therefore when the person does not move and is stuck in place, the desire pushes him with the power to move forward and the person feels this shortcoming and immediately runs to the next state in development to fill himself with the next pleasure in development...
Therefore, if you explore this desire, you will be able to get ahead of the "brutal press of development" that pushes humanity and you will change from being pushed back by force to being pulled forward by seeing your next situation.
There are no mysteries, there are no higher powers, everything can be discovered according to the magnitude of the desire...
All the best
Moses
There is nothing beyond Moses, nothing. The desire for a better life and curiosity is it, there is no mystery or higher powers here.
Peace be upon you
You said that man is looking for a better life, right, but what motivates him to look, where does this curiosity to look come from? What made man seek a better life? What is this fuel that drives man? What is inside the person that pushes him to develop? What makes a person not go to sleep 24 hours and search and search all day without knowing what he is looking for?
There is some kind of pushing force, what is it?
By the way, what is your name? I don't like calling you by the name "Rah" unless it has meaning
Waiting for answers
Thanks in advance
All the best
Moses
I have a feeling you've never seen tribes. But you don't have to go far, the Bedouins are so happy?
Regarding your other duties - the person is looking for:
A. A better life - applied science.
B. Man has a natural curiosity that drives him to want to understand the world without any visible benefit in the near future. This is known as basic science. Research to satisfy curiosity.
These two are densely connected. Applied science can hardly exist without basic science, and you never know which discovery will lead to an invention that will raise the standard of living.
In my opinion, all other questions such as meaning, where we came from and where we are going, etc. are derived from the two motivations above.
Peace be upon you
It's like telling me that the chimpanzee is really suffering right now, she's worried about how to find food for herself and her offspring, she's fighting with other chimpanzees over a banana, it's raining on her in the winter and the poor thing is hiding among the branches of the jungle and yelling for someone to help her...
You understand my question right? You understand that according to the level of development that man once was, he was not tormented as you are describing to me here... and this despite the fact that you did not grow up in the tribe of an ancient man.
Beyond that, go see ancient tribes that still exist in the world and live a really simple life not far from the ancient man and see how the smile never leaves their face and they never complain.
I am waiting for the answers to the other questions I asked
Thanks in advance
All the best
Moses
Was early man happier? Let me tell you about his life. All the time he was busy getting food, endless effort in heat and cold, running after food. He was afraid of the forces of nature that he did not know of predatory animals and hostile tribes around. Out of 10 children born to him, 7 died at a young age (I imagine he was very happy about that..). He himself suffered from chronic diseases, gum problems, digestive problems and any slightest injury could lead to his death from infections. Finally, if he was lucky he died at the age of 30-40 because he couldn't take it anymore.
Happy???
"The law of gradual development is comprehensive for the entire creation. And on it were built all the systems of the entire nature, both the inorganic and the organic, up to the human race in all its ideal and material qualities - in all of these you have nothing that does not pass under the iron law of gradual development, which revolves and comes from the force of two forces running into each other: a positive force, That is, constructive power, and negative power, that is, deceptive and destructive power.
And let's take the Earth as an example, which at first was just a ball of fog-like gases. And by the force of attraction within it, concentrated for a certain period the seals in it into a narrower circle, as a result of which the gaseous ball turned into a liquid ball of fire. And later, during periods of terrible wars between the two forces on the earth, the positive and the negative, a cooling force prevailed over the liquid fire force, and cooled a thin shell around the sphere and hardened there.
Indeed, the ball was still not quiet from the wars of forces, and after some time the liquid firepower increased again, and erupted with a great noise from the belly of the ball, and rose and broke the cold and hard shell into pieces. And the ball returned to liquid fire. And again a period of new wars began, until at the end of the period the force of coolness once again prevailed over the force of fire, and once again cooled a cold and hard shell around the ball. And this time the shell was thicker and more able to hold up against the eruptions of the liquids from inside the ball. And her strength was beautiful for a longer period. Although in the end the liquids increased again, and erupted from the belly of the ball, breaking the shell into pieces. And again everything was destroyed, and turned into a liquid ball.
And the periods changed one after the other; And every time the force of the coolness increased, the shell that conquered him became thicker. Until at the end the positive forces overcame the negatives, and they achieved complete harmony: and the liquids took their place in the depths of the earth, and the cold crust thickened all around them, and it became possible to create organic life on it today."
From the "Oma Newspaper" that Rabbi Yehuda Halevi Ashlag published 70 years ago in the State of Israel
All the best
Moses
Peace be upon you
Tell me, how many people would want to live that long in a world like this, and if everyone already lives until the age of 40, then it is relative between everyone and no one has a problem with it - and you can say to a person who celebrates his 39th birthday "Congratulations until 40 years old" and it will be OK for everyone
You didn't convince me, I'm sure that the ancient man was happier than us "developed" ones
He had no worries, he had some food, some water, his quiet tribe, he had no worries about money, he didn't have to run like crazy all day....
What is the person looking for? What does he have to investigate? What does he get out of it or what will he get out of it in the future? What motivates him to search?
answer that please
All the best
Moses
Moshe, finally you ask something and not just a preacher. So to your question, the computer you write your thoughts on, the network where the information travels, the clothes you wear, the fact that your children's life expectancy is expected to be over 80 years compared to 40 years as it was in the past, the car you drive in, the food you eat, the refrigerator, the home pen you Live in it and every other detail around you is the result of scientific research.
Simple enough for you?
Hello father
I will ask you a question and you will give me an answer but in simple words that I can understand, if possible do not use foreign terms and if you are already using them then please translate them for me. (I am not kidding, I really do not understand these terms).
the question is :
What do scientists study? What are they trying to find? Why is it good for them or us if they find what they are looking for even though I don't know what they are looking for?
Do they search and research and invest so much effort solely for the sake of being good for themselves or humanity?
What motivates them to investigate, search and invest?
When I was a small child I really liked watching the science channels and it intrigued me and I enjoyed every moment but at some point I didn't understand how it could be that one time this researcher says something like this and in another program another researcher says something completely different about the same subject.
To be honest, I gave up a bit, because I wanted an unequivocal answer, unfortunately to this day there is no unequivocal answer.
Waiting for an answer.
Thanks in advance
All the best
Moses
Moshe, do you call this brain confusion scientific? It seems you are teasing us, next time I copy your emails to Word, and cut after 150 words.
my father
But really, even the "power" when it is examined for itself is a real substance, no less than all the other physical substances in the tangible world.
And even though it does not have any image presented to the perception of the human senses - this does not detract from the value of the material that is the "power".
Because if you take the isolated element of oxygen, of which most of the substances in the world are composed, - and with all this when you take a bottle with a clean element of oxygen, when it stands by itself free from the sharing of another substance - then you will find it like a completely empty bottle, without any perception at all - being a completely aerial examination , which the hand does not control to the touch, and it does not have any appearance that the eye controls.
And if we remove the cork from the bottle and smell it, we will not find any smell of anything. And if we taste it - we will not find any taste in it. And if his breath is on scales - it won't weigh more than the empty bottle. And likewise hydrogen, which has no taste, smell, or weight.
But when we put the two elements together, they will immediately turn into a liquid, and here is drinkable water, which has taste and weight.
And if we put the water into quicklime - immediately the water will mix in the lime and the liquid will turn into a solid substance like the lime itself.
After all, the elements oxygen and hydrogen, which themselves have no tangible perception at all - turn into a solid body.
And according to this, how can we decide and say about the forces operating in nature that are not physical matter, and all this is only because it is not arranged towards the cognition of the senses - while we clearly see that most of the tangible substances in reality were built from the beginning from the element of oxygen, which the human senses are not able to perceive and feel.
And no more, but that even the tangible reality, the solid and the liquid, which are definitely achieved in our tangible world - may turn into air and vapor, at a certain degree of heat - and likewise the air may turn into solids at a certain degree of cold.
And if so, one must wonder, how can you have a giver of what is not in it, because we have clearly seen that all tangible images come from the elements which are themselves intangible, and are not self-existent substances. And also, all the fixed images we know, and by which we define the materials, are not fixed and exist at all by their own merits, but only take shape and take shape under the influence of factors such as heat and cold.
But the essence of physical matter is the "power" in them, except that those powers have not yet been found for us alone, like the physical elements - and it is possible that they will be revealed to us in time from time to time, even when they are alone. Like all the marine elements that were discovered to us only recently.
From the article "The Wisdom of Kabbalah and Philosophy" written in the 30s (Rabbi Yehuda Levi Ashlag)
Avi - it's a bit long but incredibly scientific and accurate
All the best
Moses
You are all invited to read about the morality that your opinion is so trying to promote
HERE
And here
Self-acceptance, even though it is described by us in different forms, such as possessions, possessions that are dear to the heart, the eye, and the palate, etc., all of these are defined by only one name: "pleasure", in such a way that the whole point of self-acceptance that a person desires is nothing but wanting to enjoy.
And now, go ahead and imagine if we put together all the lessons of pleasure that man achieves during his seventy years on one side, and put together all the sorrow and suffering he suffers, on the other side, to the point that if he had the calculation in front of his eyes - he would prefer not to be born.
And if that is the case, what kind of acceptance does a person achieve for himself in our world, if we assume that he achieves twenty percent of pleasure in his life, compared to eighty percent of suffering, then, when we face each other, sixty percent of suffering will remain without any reward.
Admittedly, all of the above is a private account, when a person works for himself, because in a global account, the individual produces more than he receives for his existence and enjoyment. If so, the direction will change, from self-acceptance to influence - or then the individual will enjoy all the output he produces, without much suffering.
From the article "Peace in the World" (Rabbi Yehuda Levi Elshag)
The solution is so simple and so close to everyone, but we complicate everything, to change the attitude from swallowing everything for myself to an attitude of giving to others - this is the general law of nature of all reality in all its degrees, inanimate, growing, living, speaking and taking root.
All the best
Moses
"The highest peaks in the west" ??!! Not peaks, certainly not high, and on the other hand the trend is indeed changing more and more people are indeed acquiring education after the yeshiva years
https://www.hayadan.org.il/taub-report-on-unemployments-among-ultra-ortodox-jews-and-arabs-1404102/
Enough: there is no debate between us that education is a positive thing
But the problem with education today is the excessive skepticism that causes the unloading of any serious burden that binds
You wrote "educate about the values of truth" there is a wonderful aesthetic beauty in this you can also show them oil paintings on canvas...
The power of religion is the public obligation of agreeing to fixed laws which inevitably also affects the view of the individual and the G-d as an individual who feels himself a part of it and compares himself to a higher and more binding reality "And who is a great nation that has laws and laws that are as righteous as This Torah" Deuteronomy XNUMX:XNUMX goodbye
My answer to Still waiting for confirmation
Opinion: Michael summed it up better than I did regarding religion.
And regarding the children, as you may have guessed I am quite young and it is still far from me but I know that I would prefer to educate them on the values of truth above all, and the Torah apart from some great universal quotes, is far from a book that contributes and educates.
Moshe, don't be arrogant and don't preach to me. According to what you write, I assume that I have read more Kabbalah books than you, but you have not read anything in science, so there is no common basis for debate. With an ideological ignorance that pretends to belittle knowledge, but arises from laziness, I have no right. At least learn the Kabbalah, Maimonides and the others on whose behalf you claim to speak, and then you will come to convince us. Until then, have a good trip to the realms of the confusing infinity in the hot spring of heart blossom (where is that from?)
their opinion:
Education has indeed not yet solved everything.
Her problem is a sales problem because she usually admits what she doesn't know.
The situation is of course different with religion.
Religion has not solved anything but it invents fairy tales as if it has solved everything.
One of the problems that science has not solved is the fact that there are a lot of stupid people.
This is exactly the fact that religion knows how to make good use of.
I don't think there is anyone here who suggests living without law, but there is a difference between primitive laws enacted thousands of years ago and a modern and updated system of laws.
Those who break the law on a regular and organized basis usually do so for religious reasons (see the article "Utzo Tasheh and Tofar" - the anthem of the youth of the hills, see the article Collecting Taxes in Bnei Brak and more Kahana and Kahana and Kahana).
Rah and Lisa:
It is completely natural that the delusional (and let's face it - most of them are religious) try to attack websites that try to eliminate hallucinations.
Even in the regular press - every article about evolution or the big bang causes waves of crazy reactions.
I think there is room for discussion on any issue - provided it is a discussion.
The problem with all those incendiary trolls is that they don't hold any discussion. They just try to hurt the sane people in any way possible and the anonymous internet trolling is a really fantastic tool for them. Therefore - in my opinion - it is completely legitimate and even required by reality, to take action against their activities in ways that are not a natural part of the discussion between opinions.
If we take even the small microscopic atoms that are in the first elements of some essence, that are separated by the craft of flattery, aren't they also nothing but forms in the universe that are depicted so to the eyes, or more precisely, that what is visible and tested to us by the ways of "the desire to receive and be accepted" that we find in them , which according to the law of these operations, it is possible to distinguish them and isolate these atoms of their kind, until the examination of the first substance of that essence, and even then, they are only forces in the essence, and not matter. And you find, which also in physicality, we have no other way to understand the first substance, other than the assumption that the first form is the first substance that carries all the other cases and forms that follow it, and there is no need to say in the upper worlds, which everything tangible and imaginary does not practice from it.
From "The Ten Sefirot Talmud"
All the best
Moses
Enough: you wrote "It will take quite a long time for such delusional types to disappear completely" I think that what is delusional is the vision of enlightenment because of which the generations before you abandoned religion because they thought education was a solution for everything.
For your information, the religious feeling is only increasing today in the world of so-called post-modernism because everyone has seen that education alone is not a solution
The omission of religion creates a vacuum that creates religious extremism on the one hand and materialistic stupidity on the other hand that brings destruction to humanity of which you are also a part - if you are a perfect egoist this should not bother you...
And yes, if you have children you will understand what you are missing if you have nothing to educate them with and you have no way to guide them to stand in the right place you feel like you are zero
Only creating and establishing a continuation of a new life that you share in its correct design gives you a taste of creation that is the taste of life itself
My father, I already wrote here that today everything can be found on Google (Words: Haim Hefer and Amos Keinan, Music: Shmulik Kraus, performed by Eric Einstein), the infrastructure is already ready for all of humanity, anyone who wants and desires can take it, the time has come for us to start dealing with things more important to humanity because according to the deterioration of Humanity seems to me that the big bang that we are studying symbolizes our end and not the beginning that we are studying...
All the best
Moses
to Moses
A potash rig is hot from the heat. (You probably can't tell me which song the quote is from)
Peace be upon you
The three points are so that I don't have to write down a whole scroll for anything beyond the scroll that I write down anyway.
I never wrote that you are idiots, so don't lie, I'm not here to say that you're idiots, I'm here to present a different picture than what you're used to and that's all, how can you be idiots if you've studied all your life and are still studying, intellectually you are at the highest level in humanity.
My claims are that you are not open to ideas that do not come from what you are used to.
Regarding what science calls DNA, in the Kabbalah wisdom that has been around for thousands of years, terms like "reshim" or "reincarnation" or "sefirot" are used, so don't think that they discovered something new, the point is that Kabbalah describes the causes and science only discovers the results of the causes.
If you start studying really but really in order to research I will refer you to Kabbalah books and you will see how many details there are about each and every feature that is within one small desire,
But you immediately come with a negative attitude towards the wisdom of Kabbalah because you associate it directly with religion and customs.
For starters, read Rabbi Yehuda Ashlag's "Talmud Eser HaSefirot" and then you will understand what it means to really investigate and you will understand how wrong you are going...
All the best
Moses
And stop writing three periods after every third sentence trying to create some magical mystery atmosphere. It doesn't work, on the contrary, it's disturbing and it makes you look like an idiot.
Interesting Moshe, from whom did you hear about DNA? From the Ari? Or was it a trained Nachman? And is EMC2 from the Yom Tov treatise or even from the Psalms? And to Tommy I thought that scientists discovered and invented these concepts.
Moshe, after so much bullshit (and I don't care if you get hurt) I give up. Keep arguing with yourself. You are a cult member living in a movie. Thank you and goodbye. You keep asserting without substantiation that everyone here is incomprehensible. You enter a room full of people and call everyone idiots, the people start yelling at you and you go out and re-enter and again start yelling that everyone is an idiot and that's how it's been going for several days here, when you ignore every request to prove and substantiate your arguments and just throw out more quotes that have nothing to do with anything.
Opinion: I am an atheist from an atheist family. The Torah book in our home sits on the novel shelf along with the other books. I along with millions of other people manage very well even without the Torah. Is there something wrong with that? Are we missing something?
Yair Shalom
I understand that you are speaking from a very narrow point of view, therefore I am trying to broaden your point of view so that you see beyond the picture, nowadays you look at the television screen and see a reality that for you is happening, real, tangible and you believe everything that happens on the screen, what you really see are waves that are adjusted to the perception your reality and therefore you translate them into a tangible reality, therefore I say that what you describe with your five senses is only waves of information that you perceive with your tools but there is no tangible reality and therefore the research should not be about what you perceive with your senses, the research should be solely about What is not perceived by your senses because this is the real reality and not what you perceive from the waves...
All the best
Moses
Dan Shamir Hello
If you want to escape from reality, this is really the best solution for you, although I do not recommend you to escape from reality with such things....
Go work in an orderly job, raise an exemplary family and devote your love to them, and in your free time only, start exploring yourself, everything is in you as a DNA sequence "lists" of pre-programmed information, you can only speed up the release of the lists in a faster way, but in any case even if you stand still The lists are still out, but according to their pace of development and not yours...
All the best
Moses
Hello father
When Lisa wrote here about nymphs from her wonderful world, I didn't see that you referred to it, which means that you are actually opening fire only against me because I shake your box a little and divert your thoughts in a slightly different direction than what you are used to.
You are writing to me out of anger and therefore that is also the reason why you have no possibility of understanding what I wrote, if you tried to look at the things I wrote here and not read them as you read "Galileo" maybe you would understand that it is only about you, it is not about any light or space or any creatures And no nobles and certainly not angels...
That's why I already wrote that you need to learn the "language of the branches" in order to internalize every word...
This is similar to a person who learns to read only English but without knowing what each and every word describes and what its definition is.
That's why you know how to read Hebrew but don't know what each and every word describes and certainly don't know what the definition it describes,
For example, you as a person who is familiar with the research material know how to give me a whole lecture about the formula E=MC2 and my little one only sees 3 letters in English and the number 2....
That is why you dismiss writings that are written in Hebrew superior to you while you only see words of this world...
You only need a key...
All the best
Moses
Moshe,
There is no need to be Harry (Potter) or whatever in order to reach insights that are beyond the senses, just put a small stamp on your tongue and name it LSD.
Moshe the kashkashen, next time I will unilaterally cut your articles to 150 words, just put them in Word, and everything beyond that will be cut. You can't read the vanity scrolls.
The two quotes from religious literature are definitely worth reading.
The first is a type of poetry. Songs that are written nowadays, such as "When God said for the first time let there be light, he didn't mean it...", or "When a person falls from a plane in the middle of the night, only God can save him...". In some time these songs will also be taught in Yeshiva and Kabbalah channels.
The second is a kind of philosophy, neither new nor innovative, but following the mainstream of philosophy.
From the article of freedom:
Even the determination of the nature of the pleasure and benefit, is not entirely from the choice and free will of the individual, but according to the will of others, which they want and not him. For example, I sit, I dress, I play, I eat. All this - not because I want to sit like that, and I want to dress like that, and talk like that, and eat like that. But because others want me to sit and dress and talk and eat in this way. All this according to the will and taste of society, - and not my free will. Furthermore, I do all these mostly against my will, because it is more convenient for me to behave simply without any burden, but I am enslaved in all my movements, with iron chains, the tastes and manners of others, which are society.
If so, please tell me, where is my freedom of will? And on the other hand, if we assume that there is no freedom of will and each of us is nothing more than a kind of machine that works and creates by external forces, which force it to act in this way. This means that each one is bound in the forbidden house of Providence, which by its two virtues of pleasure and pain, pulls and pushes us to its will, to the places it desires. In a way that there is no "verticality" in the world. Because there is no such thing as a free man standing on his own authority. I am not the owner of the deed, and I am not the doer, because I want to do it, but because they work with me out of necessity and not out of my mind, if so it comes out according to this, the reward and punishment have passed for him.
Rabbi Yehuda Halevi Ashlag (The Freedom Article)
All the best
Moses
That's enough, hello
You are right in that science is indeed the only yardstick for objective reality and realistic truth
But you are wrong that a world without religion and law belongs
The essence of science is a feeling of sobriety in the abundance of knowledge about reality and nature, but it is limited to the imagination and is not a real world
And for moral reality to exist, it is not enough to know that there is morality and to feel that it is beautiful
It should have a realization in reality itself that creates a real feeling of clear boundaries and binding Torah laws
And only eternal laws of life have an objective reality
Only they can be sustained as a whole life by sincerely understanding all the details in it and internalizing the necessity of all the parts in it that have proven themselves that the good of the whole world depends on them
And there is no more complete feeling than what you are doing for the environment
And there is no higher feeling than the realization of the life of the truth in the heart inside
Good morning to all researchers and experts
To try to explain to you a little about the legality of the universe I'm talking about, I'll attach a small quote from a person who understands the general reality much more than you:
Know that before the nobles were ennobled and the creatures were created,
There was a simple supreme light that fills all reality.
And there was no free space in terms of empty air and space,
But everything was full of the light of that simple infinity.
And he had neither a head exam nor a final exam,
but all was one light simply equal in one comparison,
And it is called "endless light".
And when he arose in his simple desire to create the worlds and ennoble the nobles,
to publish the completeness of his actions, names and nicknames,
That this was the reason for the creation of the worlds.
Here then reduce itself to infinity at the middle point,
which is in the very middle,
and dimmed that light,
and move away to around the sides of the middle point.
Then there is a free space left, air and empty space
From the very middle point.
And here this reduction was in one comparison
Around that empty middle point.
in such a way that the place of that space
It was round from all its surroundings in perfect comparison.
And here is the reduction,
Which then remains the place of space and the air is free and empty
In the middle of infinite light,
There was already a place here,
That the nobles, and the creatures, and the creatures, and the creatures could be there.
Then one line of his continued from the endless light from top to bottom,
which dangles and descends within that space.
And through that noble line, and created, created, and made
all worlds all
First these four worlds
There was one infinity and one name in wonderful and vanishing unity,
that there is no power even in the angels closest to him
and they have no end in sight,
Because there is no created mind that can achieve it,
Because it has no place, no limit, and no name."
This is what Rabbi Yitzchak Luria (the Ari) said and his student Rabbi Chaim Vital wrote,
Has science already discovered this reality that he is talking about?
If science tests with the five senses, it will get results that are not beneficial to a person, but if they start testing above the five senses (something that seems impossible and unimaginable at the moment), then you will understand how a person reaches such special insights...
Good luck on your way
All the best
Moses
I personally am very far from being a scientist, I come in here and read and most of the time I use the comments to understand the articles, but I live for such debates.
We are in a period of awakening and the spread of atheism and knowledge, but in front of us are millions of religious people of all kinds and they have been in business for thousands of years and it will take quite a long time until such delusional types disappear completely or at least start to feel a little ashamed and realize how brainwashed they are from childhood. We are only at the beginning of a revolution (at least I hope so).
Lisa, I agree with you and at the time I also protested the silencing of some trolls on the site. In my opinion, it is possible to discuss anything, even the most delusional, provided that the partner answers the question and listens to logical arguments.
The question I raised above concerns a different issue and that is why science, even in the 21st century with its ability to solve problems and create amazing technologies including the one we currently use to communicate, why does it arouse such strong opposition? What is on fire for these people who, on the one hand, will want a doctor to use an MRI, have a GPS in the car and write posts as long as the exile on the computer and on the other hand will slander and belittle the need for education and praise the "light, infinite love and hidden energies of the universe that rule in our hearts"?
To Moses
Have you ever seen electricity, you probably haven't, so if you're a stickler for all your nonsense, there probably isn't such a thing, so please remove the white plastic square with the three holes from one of the walls of your house, just a square that is not used for anything and push your hand into it and of course you can be barefoot because there is no Something visible and then we will talk.
Lehr:
Good question.
The approach I advocate is maximum tolerance for scratches. I take inspiration from the words of a mathematics professor from the Hebrew University named Gil Kalai. He shares many discussions with the general public in the online world both on his blog and elsewhere. I was very impressed by his non-conceited and non-arrogant attitude towards people who do not belong to the ivory tower to which he himself belongs. I previously presented a link to a short article in which he describes an exchange between him and Nobel laureate Israel Oman on the subject of the Tanakh code. Here is a passage in which he talks about how claims should be treated, even the most unfounded ones:
How should we react to very unlikely or even absurd scientific claims?
We had better ignore most, if not all of them. However, if we choose to
react, what is the most appropriate way of doing so? Regarding the ques-
tion of whether we should relate to unlikely claims at all, let me mention
a mathematician who is one of the great number theorists of the twentieth
century who has spent a considerable amount of time reading and finding the
mistakes in proposed proofs (usually by laymen) for Fermat's last theorem.
I often wonder why he has taken the trouble all these years. I think the
primary reason is his sense of responsibility as a scientist and perhaps also
his sympathy towards people who share his dreams, if not his abilities. He
perhaps also realizes that laymen occasionally propose useful mathematical
ideas and, although it is a remote possibility, a layman may arrive at a valid one
proof for Fermat's last theorem. (I don't think he would have spent the same
amount of time on proposals for trisecting an arbitrary angle into three equals
parts using a compass and a ruler, which has been proven impossible.)
Abi, Machal, Noam Liza and all the rest, an interesting question arises here. What makes the science site a center of attraction for so many srots?
I would expect that a site that wrote about the spread of education and the innovations of science would be at the center of the consensus because in my opinion (which is delusional) the desire for knowledge and the appreciation for education are shared. I would therefore expect that there would be interesting discussions on the content of the findings that are discovered on a site like the science. Instead, it is a magnet for delusional people who try to undermine the need for research itself! And they drag us all into crazy discussions of hundreds of posts about nonsense.
On the one hand, it is interesting, but on the other hand, it is very sad that this is the case, and if the science website even slightly represents the state of society in Israel, it is very worrying.
Friends:
This is a troll who cannot be silenced with words because he does not understand what is being said to him.
There are, therefore, two ways to stop suffering from it.
The first is that my father will block him completely but he seems reluctant to do so.
Therefore the second is to simply implement his advice and ignore his responses.
I hope Moshe will eventually realize that there is no point in his squealing and even if he does not harm the rainforests (because this is not a paper that needs to endure all the nonsense he writes) then many natural resources are still being wasted on creating the energy to project them on many screens.
Of course, finding the relevant responses (of others) between the garbage mountains and Moshe Messini is a waste of our time, but it seems to me that he really doesn't care about our time (he only wants to do us good and as we know - wasting our time is good)
Hello father
I don't understand why you think I'm wasting your time and the readers' time, you chose to waste your time on what I write.
I didn't force any of you to waste your time, you can not answer, not respond, not think about how we stick a counter to Moses in order to feel good about yourselves.
You know the level of stillness very well, but I know a little about the level of the desert, so your responses are the subject of my research... You are the objects that I study, I study your desires, I check whether there is a match between your desires and mine, I check with you The truth inside me...
I must point out that your father has quite a lot of stamina but is also fragile...
All the rest of society are impatient and intolerant....
If I were to end the discussion with a sentence like this, would you feel sorry for me, angry with me, angry with yourself, an exercise called we turned out stupid:
"Well, I need to finish. I have a meeting in the closed room with the department's psychiatrist. See you next time"
Would you feel as foolish or wise as you do now???
Everything depends on a person's perception of reality, what seems bad is not necessarily bad and what seems good is not necessarily good, I ask you to research things comprehensively so that you don't feel stupid at the end of the road...
All the best
Moses
Enough, I'm sick of your nonsense.
If I wanted to be a scientist I would discover things myself, everyone has their own skills. The road of science is not circular. Your delusional arguments are like that. Now I beg your pardon, stop wasting my time and the time of the readers, you have something intelligent to say.
Hello father
Have you ever discovered something on your own and I mean without the support and grip of the existing infrastructure of science.
You didn't find out, you are basing yourself on studies that already exist and from them you continue to research, that's your mistake.
Get off the road for a moment to the side and look for another road, you are flowing on the same road and therefore you are extending the road into the unknown....
You say that the big bang was discovered and according to what I read it is not a discovery of the big bang.
More than that, even if you get to the point in your research that it happened, you will receive a ringing slap in the face. Has anyone perhaps thought that the big bang you are studying could be a small grain of a bigger bang??? Then what will you do, start and imitate other great compensations for thousands of years....
Get off the road, you are driving in a circular road...
All the best
Moses
Enough peace
I'll give you proof, forget attraction exists, I want to see with my own eyes...
Do not write evasive answers, I will ask you the same question in the year 3000
Go to work, provide evidence that can be seen with the eyes.
All the best
Moses
And this is the reaction that cuts through your fate.
In 2010 there are still people who claim that gravity cannot be proven.
I prefer the wisdom of the invoice to the wisdom of the receipt.
And besides that, we did see the big bang - although not with the eye, but definitely with the devices. But come on, as a junior comedian you don't have enough training to read sensitive scientific material.
https://www.hayadan.org.il/study-the-universe-in-microwave-0509091/
Enough peace
You want proof of things you can't perceive with your senses, moreover you can't prove to me that there is "gravitational force" - you can show me formulas from here until a new message, you can break a luxurious set of glasses on the floor, prove that there is gravity, you don't Able to prove…
Do you see gravity, do you feel it, why do you believe there is gravity without seeing it, maybe there is some cute little elf that pulls things to the ground, maybe there are tiny magnets under the ground???
If you want proof, you will have to build a special sensing tool that you don't currently have, then you can check, measure, investigate, draw diagrams just like in any science.
Science today says that there was a big bang from which everything was created, no one saw the big bang but the explanation says that there was indeed, religion says that the Creator created everything in seven days,
The wisdom of Kabbalah says that there is only an upper simple light that fills all reality, we feel that there is stillness, living vegetation, speaking while we are no less than information within the upper simple light. We are what the light is not…
It's a bit complicated, there's nothing, little by little...
All the best
Moses
I'm disappointed... I expected you to answer me and prove to me that "love" exists.
post Scriptum
You pay for the hours you missed at school here and now.
No one takes you seriously.
You're kind of a comic relief.
Hello moshe.
I am sorry to hear that you have not merged with the information flowing in reality. I will check with my friends who specialize in this field if there is a cure for this problem.
Read in the meantime and enjoy
https://www.hayadan.org.il/world-is-ilusion-2009091/
https://www.hayadan.org.il/the-universe-is-vr-1401087/
By the way, the scientists understand very well that our senses are not enough and therefore developed the possibility to observe bodies in infrared, ultraviolet, radio waves, etc. using devices.
post Scriptum. I am not happy that there are fools in the world and that they are even the majority of the population. I do the little I can in bringing the knowledge so that they will become wiser.
Hello father
We talked about the fact that science does not bring us to a happier world, are you happy that I attack science and insult it with all my brazenness and moreover I even use the tools that science created and go against it?
You think that the knowledge that is in the space of reality belongs to you, you do not yet perceive that reality is completely simple, the information you perceive with your senses seems so because your reception tools are not "calibrated", if I cut off your will you will not feel anything, you will not see anything, you will not hear anything...
We are like dots that float on the waves of light, after all light always looks black until it reaches matter and then it turns out to be white, the universe is surrounded by light but space is black, why is space black because light has no vessel to collect it and show the whiteness of light, light is stripped of any form we are the ones who change the light according to our tools...
Sharpen your receptive tools and you will feel an eternal filling that does not stop….
We have not yet merged with the information that flows in reality, we only investigate what is perceived by our senses and more than that is already a limit that we cannot jump over.
All the best
Moses
For Eran, we tried to deal with this trouble called Explorer, but we gave up. Try the recently released version eight. I am watching this discussion in Chrome - a very fast browser but I know there is a problem that people don't want Google to know everything about them, Mozilla is not recommended - Firefox crashes for me all the time.
LIZA I enjoyed it, great idea.
Because nothing is written here, because everything written here is based on articles in scientific journals, which check themselves, while the nonsense journals do not check themselves and accept any nonsense.
You didn't express a different opinion, you just wrote nonsense that doesn't connect to each other. So unclear that they don't understand what your opinion is about them except that you think science is nonsense but use the internet which is a product of science.
"I'm not talking about that kind of love, I'm not talking about metabolism in the body...
There is a system that encompasses all of reality and it is called "love" because there are no words to express this special power, it is called "love" because this power is a power that gives without interruption just like an electric current that never stops and on the other hand you can connect different tools to it (kettle, TV, video, lighting) the current is constant but the tools that receive from it are different and opposite, each according to the capacity, resistance and role..."
Prove to me somehow that this power exists. If you succeed, I'll even surf and say that my father will agree to close the site immediately.
This is a site with news in the various fields of science. You don't "believe" in science. Something is wrong with the equation.. What are you actually doing here? As an atheist, I don't enter ultra-Orthodox websites just to harass them (and I can haha the temptation...)
I did an experiment.
I reversed the order of David Moshe's sentences to check if this makes his words more understandable or less understandable. I made an amazing discovery. His words remained equally understandable even when the order is reversed!
Here is the masterpiece before you:
"
Moses
All the best
Think about the things I wrote because a day will come when you will no longer have the energy and strength to deal with science, at least you will start thinking about a good future for all of humanity.
Just as we were born, this is how our lives look, is that what we exist for? live and die, so what do we have to look for if the end is known in advance???
Man runs after the unknown and along the way discovers and learns many things, but in the end what remains is only a very small memory that will disappear over the years, after all the body has ended up rotting and the man himself has disappeared
Will you, my dear father, ever come to rest and say to yourself now I can finally rest and be happy from all the long run I ran all my 120 years....
The fact that you enter and leave does not mean that you participate, I am unlike 12001 people who enter the day I came and I expressed a different opinion from the opinions that are common here.
Regarding the visits to your website...
There are other senses that man needs to acquire for himself, but right now he doesn't feel that he lacks them just like he doesn't feel that he lacks a sixth finger...
Does the person feel that he is missing a sixth finger???
perceive the world differently, people born without one sense perceive the world differently than people with five senses,
Science also knows how to say that we perceive the world because of the "five senses" and the brain is the one that processes the data and creates an image and reality for us based on the information received by the senses, the animals
How much more will you dig to discover a simple little thing that all reality is not outside the person but is inside him...
The "sect" of scientists explores the world more and more and more, you have dug in the dead in plants and animals and you have not reached the end of the road...
Why do you think education is good for the world?
Why do I manage to deal with the nonsense that is written here and you can't handle my nonsense?
Hello father
"
Moshe:
Haven't you noticed yet that no one is interested in your witticisms?!
You say you only want to do good but in practice you are annoying all the people here.
So decide!
Hello father
Why do I manage to deal with the nonsense that is written here and you can't handle my nonsense?
Why do you think education is good for the world?
The "sect" of scientists explores the world more and more and more, you have dug in the dead in plants and animals and you have not reached the end of the road...
How much more will you dig to discover a simple little thing that all reality is not outside the person but is inside him...
After all, science also knows how to say that we perceive the world because of the "five senses" and the brain is the one that processes the data and creates an image and reality for us based on the information received by the senses, animals perceive the world in a different way, humans who were born without one sense perceive the world differently from humans have five senses,
Does the person feel that he is missing a sixth finger???
There are other senses that man needs to acquire for himself, but right now he doesn't feel that he lacks them just like he doesn't feel that he lacks a sixth finger...
Regarding the visits to your website...
The fact that you enter and leave does not mean that you participate, unlike the 12001 people who enter the day I came and expressed a different opinion than the opinions that are common here.
Will you, my dear father, ever come to rest and say to yourself now I can finally rest and be happy from all the long run I ran all my 120 years....
Man runs after the unknown and along the way discovers and learns many things, but in the end what remains is only a very small memory that will disappear over the years, after all the body will end up rotting and the man himself will disappear just as he was born, this is how our lives look like, is this what we exist for? live and die, so what do we have to look for if the end is known in advance???
Think about the things I wrote because a day will come when you will no longer have the energy and strength to deal with science, at least you will start thinking about a good future for all of humanity.
All the best
Moses
Moshe, as mentioned before, you turn ignorance and laziness into ideology.
Learning has always been a supreme value in Judaism throughout all generations. But in Judaism it is never said that learning comes from within, it is said in Buddhism and Zen. On the contrary, Judaism has always encouraged going out to read and study and only then to have an opinion. Therefore, what you are talking about goes against the spirit of the sages that you admire so much, including Rambam Rambam Ibn Gabirol, Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, Rabbi Akiva and others who were great scholars and did not learn "from the heart" but from the mind.
In short, if you bothered, you would find that your ideas are much closer to Eastern teachings than to Judaism, except for your arrogance and conceit that contradict both ways.
But you don't study, so how would you know?
Avi - there is a problem reading the post. The comments look very messy in Internet Explorer 7. In multi-comment discussions.
Hesha, you are right, I have no way to deal with your words, it is impossible to deal with vain words because anyone can make them up as he pleases.
You did revive a dead site. Before you, the site had 12,000 hits per day and after you, 12,001…….
I don't measure anything by the number of comments but by the seriousness. Unlike you, I do not despise education. For those who have something to say, one message is enough. The one who pulls in the direction of unnecessary debates is the hypocritical postmodernists who are not ready to accept science as the only yardstick for evaluating the truth.
Bullshit is not something you fill scientific websites with, go to the Abel and New Age websites and blather to your heart's content.
post Scriptum. I am indeed not a scientist, and that is not a problem.
To Moses:
So far !
You called us honor seekers, we suffered.
You called us money chasers, we messed up.
You called us chasers of money and control, we kept quiet.
But call us intelligent chasers! This is insolence like no other! And on the day of the Holocaust...
Shame on you
Hello father
It is more and more clear to me that you are not a scientist, it is more and more clear to me that you are hurt by me because I am telling the truth, it is more and more clear to me that you are so sure of yourself that you are therefore unable to check things thoroughly...
Do you want to filter me? You are invited, just prove to everyone here that you are exactly as I described you, chasers of honor, money, control and intelligence...
You don't have the tools to deal with what I say, and therefore you choose a weak point that repeats itself "eloquent writing", my dear father, with eloquent writing you don't build a better world, you don't shop at the grocery store, you deal with things that are not beneficial to all of humanity...
As far as I'm concerned, delete all my messages if you can't stand me here...
In the last two days I am the one who revived this dead site, there was silence and dryness on the site until I woke up the dead...
You decide for yourself, the decision is in your hands...
All the best
Moses
Hello Lisa
And where do you think they got the phrase: "Don't look at the kettle but at what's inside"
Don't go near this person you met he will turn you into a unicorn just like he turned my friend from the world of nymphs
you have been warned…
All the best
Moses
I have no choice but to follow Ron's precedent - a person who has taken over discussions like you, and we agreed with him that he can write only one comment per news and not argue with other commenters, alternatively wait patiently for us to have a forum, where you can conduct long discussions as long as the exile. You should accept voluntary self-restraint, so that we don't end up in a situation where we have to block you due to your behavior as a spammer.
post Scriptum. The problem with your writing is not only that it is not eloquent, worse it is confused, and full of postmodernist nonsense, as I told you Kabbalah is not science, it is a cult - a type of religion that takes what it wants from mainstream religion and science and distorts both so that everything you write He's bullshit.
By the way, I am the first person to be interviewed by the Kabbalah channel and the interview with him was shelved because I did not agree to accept the dictates of the respected people there and say that science agrees with them.
enough peace
I'm not talking about the love you're talking about at all, it's a selfish love like all the selfish loves in our world...
Why does a mother love her child and she doesn't like the neighbor's child? Because this is hers and that one is not hers, and therefore a mother's love is still a selfish love from the nature traits that are rooted within her.
Science also comes to the conclusions that the love we owe in our bodies is nothing more than chemical activities that are created inside our brains, if I inject a chemical substance I will make you love Hitler too (you will even propose marriage to him) and on the other hand if I inject you with another chemical substance you will start hating your parents as well Yours, your children, your wife and yourself....
I'm not talking about this kind of love, I'm not talking about metabolism in the body...
There is a system that encompasses all of reality and it is called "love" because there are no words to express this special power, it is called "love" because this power is a power that gives without interruption just like an electric current that never stops and on the other hand you can connect different tools to it (kettle, TV, video, lighting) the current is constant but the tools that receive from it are different and opposite, each according to the capacity, resistance and role...
Are you asking am I selfish?
Surely we are all selfish, the question is whether you feel selfish or not and whether you want to do something about it...
All the best
Moses
To Moses:
Wait a minute, you know the guy!? Are you saying that I can also reach the level "above nature" as well as the area of nymphs and lampreys? No one is happier than me!
One second, before I go there,
There was another guy whom I met two months ago (since then I haven't thought about him because he really made a strange impression on me, but given the latest developments, who knows...)
This guy, thin looking and short, told me that we live inside a kettle. The kettle is divided not into regions or ranks but into districts. One and only ruler rules over all the districts of the kettle. Each district has a responsible person who is appointed once every three years of a kettle (which is the equivalent of our three and a half seconds). The person in charge is selected from an elite group of sparrows (green with white dots). He told me about the internal politics of the sparrows, there are a lot of slaughters there these days and the ruler of the kettle raises an eye. In short, trouble.
The really interesting thing he told me is the following. There is a secret district in the kettle. This district can only be reached through the Chupchik of the Kettle (this district is called by the residents the Chipchuk of the Kimkims).
In order to reach the chipchuk of the kimkems, all you need is to want as much as you can to get there (plus to boil the water to a temperature of 100 degrees in a kettle which is our minus 30 degrees).
He never told me what was in the secret district but now that you said you know the other guy I thought maybe you could tell me.
The message of what you write about love has already been said by other people: John Lennon, Bill Hicks and more... and they certainly had nothing to do with acceptance. The wisdom of Kabbalah is not an exact science. It is not science at all. Just another cult.
There is arrogance and conceit in your responses and you pretend to know things here and draw difficult conclusions about everyone who responds. Who told you that you are right anyway? To justify anything just because you feel it... a bit selfish isn't it?
Hello Lisa
I don't understand why you are hesitating so much, it is known to everyone that the area of nymphs and lampreys is the most desired place for all people who reach the level of "above nature", I would run to look for this guy in your place and if you find him, tell him that Moses sent you and that he should send a warm greeting to the unicorn....
All the best
Moses
Hello father
My simple language comes from home not from school, the way you talk to a child is how he speaks... you are a scholar you should know basic things like this...
I don't need to write and speak in eloquent language in order to express my feelings in writing...
What comes out of the heart enters the heart, if it doesn't enter your heart then our hearts are probably not the same "there is no similarity in shape between us".
When I write something, even if it's long and tiresome, it comes from my heart, I don't control it, the data comes out on its own and not from this or that book...
You are sure that there is evolution because you were told and you learned from the humans who discovered that there is evolution, have you discovered within yourself the evolution that the material from which you are made goes through every moment....???
Did you discover, for example, that your desire grows every moment???
Have you discovered for yourself that every time you get what you wanted so suddenly the pleasure fades away and escapes from your hands and then you have no choice and you run to look for a new pleasure to fill yourself...
The true wisdom of Kabbalah and I'm not talking to you about holy water and red threads... it is a very precise science that investigates the "desire to receive in reality" and that is why the wisdom of Kabbalah is called, meaning the wisdom of how to properly "receive" the abundance and love that surrounds all of reality....
Start learning what there is??? If you are really engaged in science you have to research each and every topic as befits a real scientist, if you dismiss things without having studied them then you are not a real scientist, you are very simply researching what has already been researched in the past...
Start learning this wisdom and then you will see that it is an exact science about yourself....
Successfully
All the best
Moses
To Moses:
I really want to find out the truth, I turn to you for help.
According to your responses, it seems that you have a lot to teach me and I would be happy to receive tools that I do not possess to know the truth.
I would like to share with you an experience that happened to me not long ago so that you will understand why I am asking the questions.
A few days ago a guy came to me and told me things similar to yours but different. He told me that I live not in a bubble but in a box. And not just any box, but a magic box. He also told me that this box is divided into three areas. One area is the fire area, the second area is the cloud area and the third area is the dolphin area (this area is right next to the dolphinarium in Tel Aviv). Anyway, the really important thing he revealed to me is that there is another area! The area of the nymphs and the halophyrons. Nymphs live in this area (unfortunately, the falcons have been extinct there for a long time). He told me about all the wonders of the area of nymphs and lampreys that here is not the place to detail them. He also said that he has the tools to help me reach this wonderful area, all I need is for the desire to reach the area of the nymphs and lampreys to arise in me.
Now I am in a difficult dilemma. I don't know what to choose.
On the one hand, there is a level you speak of "above nature" that sounds to me like a most magical place to be. On the other hand, there is the area of nymphs and lampreys which sounds just as wonderful. All I have to do is choose what I want more.
Please help the one in need Moshe.
Moshe, I have a question, can you enter an ultra-Orthodox or Kabbalistic website without knocking on the door and insert entire chapters on evolution in talkbacks?
Maybe instead of having a theological debate and pouring out entire chapters of books, it's better for you to give a few short sentences on your own behalf?
If you did it once or twice it would be fine, but in the current situation you start to repeat yourself and become a spammer. I would appreciate it if you would listen to my advice and conduct a debate that other surfers could participate in without reading scrolls which, let's put it mildly - are not the most eloquent and use a language where each word has a completely different meaning.
I assume that in your 12 years of schooling you were taught to use simple Hebrew?
post Scriptum. Kabbalah wisdom is a sect - that is, a body that uses religion and science and distorts both.
Hello Lisa
There is a wisdom called "the wisdom of Kabbalah" and don't think that it is a "religion" Wisdom is wisdom that is acquired with desire and emotion, the Jewish religion that we see before us today is a material and physical copy of what special people once achieved internally and from the investigation of human nature and the reality that governs this nature, unfortunately What is left of all the spiritual laws that we once grasped has become something physical, for physical actions that we do with our hands and feet, after all, what does the Creator care what you do with your hands and feet??? The Creator is not a man and his thoughts are certainly not like our thoughts and he has neither a body nor a figure, we need to understand that the Creator is an all-encompassing law of nature and encompasses all of reality and this law is the law of love (you must be laughing about what kind of love you are talking about, because the Creator beats us non-stop) The thing is that we are the opposite of it and therefore feel pain and agony, in the universe there are many scattered waves and only if we "calibrate" ourselves to the same frequency then and only then can we receive the same situation this is called the "law of shape equivalence" if we calibrate our receiving tools to receive the wave that the Creator transmits to us then we will come to equalize the form with him, the people who did this and are still doing this have investigated themselves and discovered that the law is an unchanging law and it is called "love" "influence" "unlimited giving" if a person continues to live with the tools of acceptance for himself he will never equalize With the system that influences, loves and gives non-stop.
This wisdom is reached only by the people who are tired of the vanity of this world and are looking for a simple truth that encompasses the entire false world in which we all live.
When Liza will have the desire to get out of the bubble of lies and leave the desert step to the next step in the development called "above nature" then Liza will receive all the tools to realize the next step to which he aspires...
All the best
Moses
Hello Anonymous
If you think that the books of the Torah came to tell us the history of the people of Israel, then don't call it a holy book, call it a history book.
But if we have already reached the holy books, see what Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai writes in Sefer Hahar:
(In Ha'alach SXNUMX): "Woe to those wicked people who say that the Torah is nothing more than a mere story and they look at the clothing and nothing more. Blessed are those who look at the Torah properly. Wine does not sit except in a pitcher. Likewise, the Torah does not sit except in this garment. And therefore you should not look, but at what is under the clothing. And therefore all these things and all these stories are just a disguise."
Go argue now with Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai...
All the best
Moses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aikjdi3psUE
To Moses:
Thank you for the great information. I'm not sure I understood the whole thing, so I'd appreciate some clarifications, in order for the discussion to be fruitful we need some kind of common language for both of us (so that when you say 'material', I'll know what it's about, and I can relate to the same thing you're talking about, etc...).
First to your question "Do you feel that you are made of a substance called 'desire to enjoy yourself'"?
1. What do you mean by 'material'?
Do you mean matter in the physical sense? Do you make a woman a metaphorical meaning?
2. What do you mean by 'desire to enjoy yourselves'?
do you mean pleasure Or for fraud?
Regarding the rest of the response, we may address it later in the discussion, but first I would be interested in a more general question - where do you get your vast knowledge from? (For example your system of classification of degrees of development in the universe of living, still life and desert - have you heard of this system of classification from someone else? Did you come up with these names?)
Torah books If you don't see that the Torah books came specifically to teach history, you don't know how to read, apart from all the other things you don't know.
Hello Lisa
I apologize if I addressed you in the female language (even though we are all females, we will explain that later...)
Do not call me "Mr. Olam" call me by my first name "Moshe" and I will call you by your name "Liza"
You write:
"I don't have a particular problem with you being delusional (I'm also quite delusional, to be honest).
Please give me a taste outside the bubble.
For starters, I understand that you are a person of faith, aren't you? Where do you get your knowledge from?
We all live in a certain delusion and each one according to the tools with which he was born that is how he perceives his private reality.
Do you want a taste outside the bubble? In order to get a taste outside the bubble, you have to feel that you live in a bubble, you have to feel that there is something outside the bubble and yearn to get that something...
I always ask you the question, do you feel that you are made of a material called "desire to enjoy yourself" ???
This question is also the way out of the bubble...
There are degrees of development in the universe:
Still - infinite amounts of desire to enjoy the fact that he is still and if you try to break his will with a hammer the hammer will hit, why does this happen because his still nature is so strong that he does not allow any foreign body to change his still state.
A plant - one plant, includes within itself in quality all the inanimate things that exist in reality, in a plant there is a desire to enjoy the fact that it grows and grows, cut its leaves and it will grow new ones, try to uproot it from the ground and its roots will oppose you, it wants to be a plant and it enjoys it...
A living being - one living being, includes within it the quality of all the plants that exist in reality, a living being has a desire to enjoy the fact that it lives and reproduces, a cow a thousand years ago does exactly what it does today, a small calf is born and is already called a bull because it already has all the data and it takes care of itself Try to kill the animal and the animal will oppose you with all its might, try to harm its history and the animal will oppose you with all its might, why is this happening? Because the animal enjoys the fact that it is alive and enjoys the fact that it has an offspring and will therefore do everything to preserve the qualities of its nature that give it pleasure...
The desert is one desert, it includes within it the quality of all life that exists in reality, in the desert there is a desire to enjoy the following things: sex, family, money, respect, intelligence, try to hurt him with them and he will kill you.... Why because you try to hurt these qualities that are inherent in him and cause He enjoys life...
We have reached a situation where a new level of development called "above nature" is beginning to arise in humanity...
We want to break away from our desert level to a level that is above nature to a level that will take us out of the desire to enjoy myself...
That's why nature is raging around us, that's why we start to feel out of control, that's why we are hurt from every possible direction at all levels of reality, everything that is still, living, living and desert starts to go wild around us, it's like labor pains that are felt in us and try to take us out into a new world, into a new perception, out of our selfish bubble To a world of abundance and infinite love between us...
You want to get out of the bubble please... you are welcome...
Today is Holocaust Day, we are tired of the killing and evil that is increasing in the world, let's stop being selfish towards each other, let's all connect and discover a new reality above our selfish nature...
All the best
Moses
Moshe:
I recognized you!
You are the incarnation of the Oracle of Delphi!
I wish you a speedy recovery, although from what I've seen - diarrhea here is not something that passes so quickly.
Good morning Rah
I read all the material of people who talk about a higher reality, Rambam among them, I don't read all his books, but from what I read I understood what he was talking about.
Even if you know all the Rambam's books by heart, you still won't know a word of what he wrote because you read his writings from the mind and not from the emotion...
Why do you think I didn't study? After all, I wrote that I barely finished 12 years of school, but I finished them.
I'll tell you something else interesting, when there was a teacher who asked me to study for him in order to make him feel better, I did it for him to make his heart feel good, I even got very good grades for him but not for me...
I studied to do good to certain teachers because I felt that I was making them feel good..."desire to enjoy themselves"....don't we do everything we do for the environment we grow up in?
We study to make our parents happy, we study so that our parents will be proud of us, we study to receive perhaps some guaranteed gift from our parents, after all we would not make any movement if we did not receive guaranteed pleasure at the end of every action....
I finished out of the necessity of the environment, did the material interest me? No and no, not only did it not interest me, it also gave me no real reason to study it because it does not contain anything that can provide a solution to the essence of life, because it does not contain anything that will make people love each other and care for each other in order for a good system to be created More.
Learning so many things that are not useful to humans, do people become happier? Look what has happened to our world, everyone has become depressed, resentful, everyone hides behind a computer (including me) we are connected together only by waves of information and physically, we are so distant, each person has his own virtual world, look what happened to our children, they don't have Physical social life is in contact with computer characters...
Tell me this is not a result of education
Tell me we are not our own criminals
Tell me that we are not thieves, thieves of freedom, we stole with our own hands the freedom and freedom of future generations
Each generation becomes more isolated and distant from the environment and thinks only about its virtual piece of the world...
What happened to us?
the answer is :
that the desire to enjoy ourselves, which is the material from which we are made, undergoes development to a more advanced state, or as you scientists call it "evolution", when our desire to enjoy begins to increase, whether we like it or not, a thing called egoistic isolation happens, that is, in order for the person to be able to get more and more for himself, he is isolated himself and then takes all the fillings only for himself so that he can have more for himself, like a small child who receives a bag of sweets in kindergarten and goes aside to eat it alone without sharing with others....
So if you see that your children are isolated with themselves behind the computer screen, you will know that the next level of "evolution" has begun in them as well...
All the best Rah (if you have a name you can write it down don't be ashamed)
Moses
Moshe, where do you get your extreme confidence from? Don't you have any skills? If you didn't learn from where do you know about Maimonides' origins? After all, it is clear to me that you do not understand Rambam that much either, so you will deduce and hear and maybe you will get a little of the understanding.
I bet on LSD.
To Mr. Olam (if I may call you that):
I am he and not she (I understand, this reads a lot).
I have no particular problem with you being delusional (I'm quite delusional too, to be honest).
Please give me a taste outside the bubble.
For starters, I understand that you are a person of faith, aren't you? Where do you get your knowledge from?
Maimonides spoke and wrote from a deep knowledge of the supreme reality, the fact that you think that his words were written from the carnal mind is the real ignorance...
From this world you cannot learn about the higher reality anymore in this world you can only learn about what is inside the bubble and not what is outside the bubble.
In this world you can only learn about the results and not the causes
In this world you can learn about the branches and not the roots
In short, if you are looking for truth in this intellectual world, you will not find it, the truth is above the human mind and above the will to ourselves...
Start searching above the mind and not inside the mind, how do you do it???
Ask them to replace the software with another software because there is no other solution....
I don't need to learn how to fight with the opponent, I need to learn how to join him and show him a more perfect world....
All the best
Moses
Hello Lisa
I'm making a false impression, you're right, there's nothing to argue with that, I'm trying to explain to you something beyond what you experience in your day-to-day life, something beyond your perception of reality today...
You are experiencing reality from the bubble you were born into and I am trying to give you a taste outside the bubble you were born into...
weird? Right .
odd ? Right.
The question arises, wasn't it once strange to see a man walking down the street talking to himself???
Today in the modern age everyone walks around with a personal speaker stuck in their ear and talking to themselves, do those who look from the side think they are weird???
Everything depends on our perception of reality. According to the knowledge of the laws of our reality, we have the ability to acquire special tools and use them to absorb a reality that is much larger and wider than our narrow world...
All the best
Moses
Moshe, the things I will write later are insulting, but I certainly hope you will try not to offend and remember that I do not know you and I have no reason to hurt you and maybe think a little about the things.
You who failed your studies turned it into an ideology. If you read you would understand that you are neither the first nor the last. Actually everything you wrote and all your arguments in the name of self-observation have already been said. Out of ignorance you underestimate and you are not aware that the counterarguments are based on the words of people who have dedicated their lives to thinking and be exactly in these questions. So what is your name, little Moshe, as you call yourself to preach morality? On what right and what knowledge do you rely on when you patronize everyone here?
In addition, you repeat and claim that you are secular and on the other hand present ultra-religious views, what is religious/secular in your opinion? Are you sure you understand the definitions?
My suggestion to you is to go out and learn, go out and learn the scientific method, go out and learn the religious method in which you are also ignorant and then look inside and only then make up your mind out of knowledge and not out of ignorance. The main difference between us and animals is that when we learn we retain the knowledge and do not forget it and there is no need to reinvent the wheel. And remember that there is no honor in ignorance, in order to debate you need to acquire knowledge of the opponent's doctrine. Note that the successful Jewish rabbis such as Maimonides had vast knowledge and never preached ignorance.
To Noam:
I hope you don't mean me. Regarding the "*Creation of the World" guy, he really makes a rather delusional impression - even on me.
Regarding the subject of the article, there is a short and interesting article on the subject written by Gil Kalai:
http://www.ma.huji.ac.il/~kalai/Aumann06.pdf
In it, he describes discussions that Mr. Kalai had with Israel Omen, a Nobel laureate who researched the subject of the Tanach codex (and despite being a religious person, he examined it courageously and critically). Definitely worth a read
Noam Shalom
Do you know the song I live in virtual reality?
You said that you are also looking for the truth, maybe the truth has started to look for you as well and that is why you feel that strange and delusional people enter the place where you are looking for the truth...
Start checking yourself, is this a "coincidence" or does someone just want to drive you crazy?
Are you composed of a substance called "desire to get pleasure for yourself" or are you still not sure about that....???
Noam, wake up from the dream, it's not too late, you have a whole world to discover...
All the best
Moses
Tell me, it just seems to me that lately more and more delusional and strange people are coming to the site?
I am also defective, I also belong to the defective system, the question arises, do you feel defective?
After all, until you don't feel damaged, you are sure that you are fine, when do we feel that something is wrong with us? When there is pain and suffering.
If you don't feel damaged, it's because you don't yet have internal torments that signal to you that something is wrong with your approach to the world.
Nature is one law to which all the small laws of reality are connected, and when the legality of nature is broken by a foreign factor, nature immediately rejects the foreign factor and strikes it vigorously. Says to collapse the whole system to the core.
There is a fixed and absolute legality in nature, no one should break it, the law of love is a law that includes all of reality and whoever goes against this law brings about that nature will dislodge him just like a foreign bone that enters the human body.
All the best
Moses
Torah scrolls:
I saw your level from the first comment.
That's why I don't think it's appropriate to spend a lot of time debating with you.
If as part of your "search for the truth" you bothered not to study - that simply says it all.
I promise you that as soon as you have something real to say and also know how to write it in standard Hebrew, you will find me an interesting conversation partner.
In the meantime - go study.
To think that you can "find out the truth" without learning is presumption and arrogance bordering on insanity.
At school - and even more so - at the university and especially when studying natural sciences - they are not engaged in taming the mind but in developing critical thinking.
You suffer from it to such an extent that not only do your responses sin against the truth, but they also sin against themselves by containing internal contradictions.
Hello father
I told you that I would annoy you, I'm telling the truth, if you post that you're going, go and don't write any comment, what made you write a comment after you posted that you're going and you don't have time, you specifically said that you can't discuss things because you don't have time.
The truth is that you had some free time to answer but you chose not to answer because you are trying to distort the things I write and therefore you threw me away, now ask if I am angry with you? The answer is that I am not angry with you at all because I understand you and the material that you are made of, so I say and repeat that you are programmed by something that you currently have no idea what it is...I am somewhat familiar with the operating system and therefore I know that everything you say and do is only software and therefore I I do not react angrily to the software that activates you, on the contrary, I am trying to inject a "bug" into this software so that you get "freedom", "independence" from the material you are made of, which is the "desire to enjoy yourself"...
I asked Noam and I will ask you too, do you feel that you are made of a material called "desire to receive for yourself" ???
All the best
Moses
How do you know they are harmless? did you ask did you check did you read In order to know if they are harmful or not, you need to be educated a bit, but education is a black stone so there is no point at all. It is better to draw conclusions without experience and without knowledge.
I'm not defective.. are you defective? Why do you like to generalize so much?
It seems to me that the concept of faith refers to two meanings - one is faith in the existence of a higher power and the other is faith in the existence of an interface between a higher power and humans. The dispute is of course about the second meaning, since it is from it that all the conclusions that claim to bind the human race derive.
Let us say that instructions must reach us only through human channels and this is the place of the second meaning. In every generation there are those who believe in those who speak on his behalf as there are those who disbelieve in them. This debate has nothing to do with belief in the first meaning. If someone can state here wholeheartedly that they believe in the accessibility of a certain contemporary person to such an interface there is no point in reading further. Otherwise, what we are left with are the words of people from previous generations who claimed such a connection and those who engage in interpretation of their words. The large number of religious adherents only indicates a human need that indicates human vulnerability in navigating the current conditions of society. The fact that the need does not subside over the generations indicates that there is a chronic or in other words genetic vulnerability here. There have always been people who knew how to build themselves from the needs of others to ensure their existence, whether we call them rabbis or psychologists. Society has a strong power over the individuals as well probably on a genetic basis and that is why it is so important to increase the number of scholars in Israel. The weak point is of course in that interface when those who are too enthusiastic insist on making a connection between reality and the first meaning and rely on the paradox that to prove the connection they rely on the connection.
What a liar I am, that instead of going to the place where I was invited I took the time to answer you. In the end I still arrived on time because there was no traffic today and for that reason I returned faster than I thought I would. Instead of saying thank you for devoting time to your New Age musings?
Since the questions you asked, if they can be understood at all, are similar to questions that have already been asked and already answered, you should look for the answers before you come with more questions.
Sorry, I don't know English, but I'm sure you mean that most of the world didn't go to schools, but you'll be surprised, they actually don't harm the world, they live a simple life for themselves without harming others, strange right?
Education is a black stone in the world because it does not teach how to be a person from an understanding of nature and man, we are flawed and try to teach others how not to be flawed, therefore generation after generation we all come out flawed from the flawed enterprise...
Think about it for a bit…
Start building a company that invests in the love of people and not in how to be successful in life... See how the picture will change from end to end...
All the best
Moses
Where is this world where everyone is a school graduate? It sure isn't here.
http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/index.php?measure=23
You said it well, in everything related to what you learned all your life in school, I am not only ignorant, I am also ignorant of the land, moreover, what I did learn a little I don't know, I don't remember, maybe I use a little the simple things like addition, subtraction, multiplication and division, the Hebrew language that I learned, Literally the "basic package" as they say today.
Is the taming of the mind that we go through in schools necessary in order to make us human beings better or is the opposite true? Look at the world in front of you. Everyone is a graduate of the schools, but the world seems as if humans have never learned chaos and they only destroy themselves and hate each other. Is this what they taught us in school? How do you explain the fact that we are supposedly taught to love the other and the opposite comes out "hate the other" each one tries to grab onto the other in order to succeed, is this what a system that calls itself the "educational system" looks like I would change the name to "a system for learning how to get more" from a long time ago money and honor "…
Noam, have you already discovered that you "want to enjoy yourself"???
Do you invest minimum effort in order to get maximum pleasure???
Get back to me when you decide….
My little son Noam is willing to give me a kiss if I bring no surprise in return, are you also willing to give something if you get guaranteed pleasure for what you give???
All the best
Noam
Moshe,
Idle chatter and nonsense never hurt - they are simply thrown away.
So far, you have only succeeded in proving what you claimed:
You didn't learn, and therefore you remain ignorant without understanding, who is convinced for some reason that the truth is known only to him, and his job is to bring this truth to everyone's attention.
Oh well, the world is full of such people.
If you want the bitter truth then you still don't understand who you are and what material you are made of...
Let's start with the fact that every substance consists of one simple thing called "desire to enjoy myself" and therefore you cannot ask for a bitter truth because it goes against the substance of which you are composed and your request is a complete lie.
Let's start with the fact that you want a "sweet truth" and then you will start to move towards a bitter and unbearable truth which you will surely not want, we will talk about that next time
In the meantime, you will start to find out if you really "want to enjoy yourself" or if you are made up of other material and then we will continue
I want bitter truth! Tell me what the truth is:
My father,
I'll piss you off by saying you're a liar
At 17:22 you said you were in a hurry and had to go out, so you can't answer,
The truth is that you are simply unable to face the truth and therefore avoid the discussion, but as soon as you received reinforcement from "Noam" whose name I really like because my son's name is "Noam", that's why I throw the truth in your face. The disgust of his soul and the sweet lie inside him.
So what do you prefer a sweet lie or a bitter truth from me...
I apologize again, but you will continue to hurt me every time the truth about yourselves comes out of me...
All the best
"Noam" is a very beautiful name that will give you real Noam all your life...
Moses
There was already a similar debate on the site with another surfer a few weeks ago who even used the term Church of the Mind to compare religion to science but there were enough people who explained to him that this was a wrong analogy. Only one difference is important - science is the same science in Israel, Iran, Japan, the USA and South Africa, even though in each such country a different religion, a different language and people with different social ideas dominate, nevertheless scientists from all over the world have a common language and they criticize each other The other's things while the religious people from all over the world are just arguing among themselves.
And as for the claim that there are many truths - if there is anything worse than religion, it is postmodernism that says - everything is the same, there is no one truth. There is one truth, and no religion can reach it because all religions were sealed at some point and they do not adapt to today's science and technology.
Now excuse me for going out and I will answer you in the evening, or others will answer you in the meantime.
Moshe,
I don't know who you call "you".
I also don't understand where you get the pretension and audacity to state that:
"I was looking for truth when everyone was looking for all the other things".
FYI - I am also looking for the truth. What do you make of this surprising statement?
Another thing: everyone has the right to be uneducated and ignorant, but it seems to me that you are a bit exaggerating in using this right.
I was not educated according to the Bible, and the Bible, in addition to the Ten Commandments, is also full of disgusting stories that have no resemblance to morality.
The commandments that are written in the Bible are universal commandments, and even people who have never heard of the Bible believe in them.
All the best for you
The scientific truth is the truth of the groups of scientists all over the world, which means that it is still not true because only the scientists are right in this case... and therefore there cannot be one truth if it belongs to one group....
There are many truths but all of them from a systemic lack of understanding of the universe....
A group of scientists is no different from a group of "religious Jews" or "religious Christians" or Muslims.
Each person chooses according to his worldview the group that best suits him and then he belongs to some stream based on his perception of reality.
That's why scientists are also a "cult" that believes in one god called "science"...
All the best
Moses
Hello moshe. IM not mad at you. I am quoting the scientific truth which is an approximation of the realistic truth more or less (asymptote if you studied in the Hadwaa case), because if everyone has their own truth, we will not get out of it.
Unfortunately right now I can't get into a theological debate with you because I have to leave. I think several commenters have answered all your questions over the years. And they will be able to answer you even now or refer you to previous things.
Hello father
I realized a few minutes ago that you are the editor-in-chief of "Hidan", so it's very nice that my name is Moshe.
I apologize if things I wrote and will write hurt, hurt and will hurt, but I speak from my truth.
I don't have advanced degrees unlike most of you, I'm a very simple person (I barely finished 12 years of schooling and that too without a matriculation certificate), I didn't like studying because I always saw that studying in school didn't lead to anything except creating people who make money....
Is making money the essence of life, is being a respected professor in the eyes of mankind the essence of life, is pursuing advanced degrees the essence of life, is the pursuit of mastery over people the essence of life, is drifting in the currents of life like everyone else the essence of life???
I, little Moshe, was not ready to accept life enclosed in a bubble from which there is no exit and no return....
I was looking for truth when everyone else was looking for all the other things I brought up...
So it's true that I'm not educated, I'm not rich, I'm not respected in the eyes of mankind, but I'm true to myself and that's the way of life I walk....
You want to hide behind your education, that's your problem, but calling me a liar while you lie to yourself every moment for decades is the biggest lie.
You call me a religious person even though I am secular, but you are more "religious" than me and I will tell you why:
You educate your children "not to steal", not to murder, to respect others, to respect parents and many other "mitzvot" that are written in the book of the Torah... Why do you educate according to the book of the Torah if it is false in your eyes?
Why did you choose to educate the world according to the "mitzvot" that is written in a book that you do not believe in what is written in it???
Maybe the "commandments" are the "nature" inherent in us human beings?
I will go back and write "The book of the Torah does not come to tell history or practicalities, the book of the Torah is a system of natural laws that man has to discover while he is alive" When you discover part of the natural system you will understand that everything is controlled from above in a perfect mathematical way...
All the best and good luck to everyone
Moses
If you are not programmed I am willing to be really a duck.
I will repeat my words again even if you don't believe "I am not religious" I am secular just like you. But I am not satisfied with the vanities of this world, after all what seems true today turns out to be false tomorrow, science makes new discoveries but then they turn out to be unfounded...
You think you are not programmed, that is your full right to think so,
Nature is a mighty force, we little ones think we understand it just like the little worm that lives inside the radish and is sure that the radish is its whole world...but when you take your head out of the radish you will discover a world much wider than you know....
By the way, if you weren't programmed, this unprogrammed conversation probably wouldn't have taken place between us... the programmer probably made some serious bug this time....
All the best, my father
Moses
Moshe, you didn't understand my words, I said that if we are programmed there are many bugs in the software. My conclusion is the opposite of yours, not that there is a programmer and we are programmed but on the contrary, that we are not programmed. I'm not religious, but I hear a lot about "there's someone to talk to". I don't buy it. If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck then it's a duck.
Hello father
I will tell you a little secret... I am not religious at all, but I advocate searching for the truth because in my view we all live in a world that is too false and is about to get out of hand...
After all, you see where humanity is deteriorating, wherever you put your finger you will see black.
Regarding the bugs, you are right, there are bugs in order for the little person to understand that there are bugs and start to find out who this main programmer is who created software full of bugs and why did he create such software???
But this is already another topic that we may expand on someday if there is an equality of form between us...
All the best, my father
Moses
According to the Torah books, Michael was born and raised in a religious kibbutz.
And besides, if we are programmed, the software probably has too many bugs.
I wonder what is not stupid nonsense according to dear Michael's world view?
I wonder what truth is according to the worldview of dear Michael?
Is everything you learned in school because you wanted to learn or because your parents decided for you?
Is everything you ate and drank when you were a child what you chose to eat and drink or did your parents push it into your mouth without any choice of yours?
Did you choose your parents?
Did you choose the name "Michael"? (Maybe yes if you decide to change your name one day)
Dear Michael, you are a product of the factory called the world, you have no free choice, you are a machine that has had data compressed into it, you are a machine that was born with unchanging genes, you are a machine that the environment instilled in it the so-called "Michael Rothschild"
Where is Michael, where are you really, who are you, where is your freedom of choice?
Everything is programmed in you in detail, if you were born in the jungle today you would be "Tarzan" and not "Michael Rothschild".
A wise man wrote that the environment in which a person is born is the cause of how a person will be shaped, just like the same tree that is planted in a good environment, so it will bear more and more fine fruits...
Do you want to answer with disdain? You will only prove to me that the environment you grew up in and from which you grew is an environment of a factory for animals and I do not say this disrespectfully because the whole world is in the same factory, but I suggest you choose to leave the factory and look for an environment that will make you bear fruit from within yourself and not from the environment in which we grew up....
All the best
Moses
https://www.hayadan.org.il/survival-in-the-philipines-0609099/#comment-246867
For Lisa and everyone who has trouble understanding parables:
The one who lies is the thief. The one who catches him in a lie is the policeman.
To Mr. Roschild:
Who is the cop and who is the thief? These images indicate more than anything about your attitude.
Do you really not understand the disgrace you bring upon yourself, and while you pretend to represent some scientific position you bring the same shame upon it.
Lisa:
The response I was referring to is indeed stupid and biased nonsense - and therefore a lie.
There is no point in starting to answer the inexhaustible collection of distortions of reality in this response and its sequels, but from the very first moment you can see that they are trying to explain to us that the Torah is meant to show us things that later on it says that there is no way to see them except by looking inward.
For those who are not clear - this is a contradiction, but the problem is not here.
The problem is that the writer is really trying to lead us by denying religion and God and the evidence for this is numerous.
I did not find it appropriate to reward those who try to deceive others with respect.
But you, in your inexhaustible postmodernism, will never go against the thief and will always go against the policeman who forbids him.
To Mr. Roschild:
And we are back on the track you know so well.
Indeed in the field of insults you are invincible.
Lisa:
I know it's easy for you to empathize with liars.
To Mr. Roschild:
This is a repetition of a response that was not published due to the mention of the saint's name.
If it was not understood until now, I say it explicitly again.
Your contemptuous treatment of the opinions of others indicates a fixation and determination that does not add respect to you or to this site. When things are directed at you, you resent it.
Is the truth Mr. Roschild's property?
Should I switch to a more aggressive approach towards you in my treatment of your comments?
There is an upper light around us - one force, which is in a constant state and does not change at all. Apart from the upper light nothing exists. In this case, "exists" or "does not exist" have the same meaning, because our measurement operation always measures only the change. When there is no change, there is no possibility of measurement.
Inside us there is a certain gene - an informative part that awakens new qualities and emotions in us every moment. Man draws for himself the picture of the world from this feeling and from it derives his sense of existence. All these things happen inside the person and shape his feeling of the outside world.
In fact, nothing exists outside of man, but this is how the picture of reality is painted for him, as if it is outside of him. This theory I present was achieved and written by the great Kabbalists thousands of years ago. It fascinates and amazes with its experiential richness. In the Sefer Zohar it is said that only if a person understands this concept, feels it and controls it, he will be able to understand what is written in the various books of Kabbalah and in the Sefer Zohar itself.
After the person insists on the limitation of this inner perception, Kabbalah can teach him the way to get out of himself and discover what exists outside of him. The meaning is that man transcends his natural qualities, builds new sensory tools, through which he can feel the reality outside of him.
When a person is freed from his limited perception, a completely new space is revealed to him. He begins to feel the flow of life as eternal, complete and limitless. He feels the forces acting on our reality as one force. Events that seemed to him to be accidental, unexpected or incomprehensible, become rivers for him.
He feels the spiritual world as a system of forces that is behind the picture of reality that appears before our eyes, forces that activate and move our reality. This is similar to the way we look at an embroidered picture. From its front side it looks like a picture for everything, while from its back side you can see the threads that make it up and the connections between them.
This discovery gives a person knowledge about himself and the world around him. That is why this wisdom is called the "wisdom of acceptance" - the wisdom of how to accept the whole of reality correctly.
The wisdom of Kabbalah is revealed in our time because we live in a special time, where we have many possibilities for success on the one hand, but on the other hand we are unable to succeed. The wisdom of Kabbalah does not invalidate other wisdoms and sciences or the progress of humanity and its development over the generations, and it respects the achievements of man over the thousands of years of his development.
However, precisely in the face of these achievements, humanity today feels a strong desire and need to feel the complete reality in which it lives. This is the source of interest in the wisdom of Kabbalah, and that is why we are witnessing its flourishing today.
I very much hope that many will find the path of discovery of the real world in which they live through the wisdom of Kabbalah. The feeling of the person that the upper world opens before him - the feeling that comes from the discovery of the right image - is a wonderful feeling, and gives a person the feeling of eternal life. He receives an eternal and unlimited flow of pleasure, and this is what our lives lead and push us to do.
All the best
Moses
I am very intrigued by your narrow perception of reality, do you decide on things from observation or from inner arrogance, do you live with the attitude that only you are right and all the rest are just side effects of the universe, are you sure of your righteousness from the greatness of the narrow ego or from the smallness of the understanding of reality ?
Are you involved in science or just one of the ranks who is looking for truth but is not ready to agree with other truths?
All the best
Moses
Another stupid rant
It all depends on the eye of the beholder
I don't write about your words that are written as "stupid nonsense" because according to your worldview that's how things look to you and therefore that's how you write.
Is what you write nonsense? no and no ….
Why am I writing that it is not because according to your perception of reality your things are real and therefore your truth is only your truth just as my truth is only mine...
I investigate my inner reality and based on the results of the experiment on myself I decide whether it is an absolute truth or an inaccurate hypothesis.
Is an atom observed with the naked eye the same atom we all see and feel?
As soon as we examine the atom with different tools, will we discover other things?
Science shows us that the researcher is the one who influences the result of the experiment, how does this happen?
The perception of reality changes according to the person's will, if the person wants to study "particles" he will discover particles but if he wants to study "waves" he will discover waves, even though he examined the same object....
All the best
Moses
What stupid nonsense!
The Torah is a book that tells about a spiritual world only that is above the movement of time and space, but if the common man reads it, he is sure that it is about this world and then starts inventing a lot of stories and practicalities and tries to justify the stories written in the books of the Torah.
After all, every book was written by a human being, including the Torah book, so you still want to understand what is hidden behind the stories?????
I'll tell you a little and then you start researching on your own...
A person wakes up in the morning and suddenly a question arises in him: "What is the point of life? "Why do I need a boring and pointless life? Always the same? One moment I enjoy it and a moment later the pleasure fades away? Why is there no infinite pleasure? Why is there more suffering and pain in the world than pleasure??? Was I born to sign a ticket and go??? Who is responsible for all these matters that read with us??? I want to make serious claims to that someone or something that put me and everyone in this boiling pot called the world, after all, no one in the world knows why we are really bad and what we are doing here in the universe, we are tired of hearing human speculations for thousands of years, we want truth suffices…..
When a person reaches a state in which the question arises, where is the truth? Then begins the internal search for the infinite truth, and it is not found outside the earth, and it is not found in a parallel universe, and it is not found in any religion, and it is not found in humans.
The truth is your truth (male) or yours (female) The truth is the inner truth that is only found in a person who is looking for the perfect infinite truth and is ready to give all his inner reach and all the energy he has in order to discover this special truth.
Is there a creator of the world? The answer is whether the person looked for it and found it within himself.
There cannot be a creator without a creature. Do you feel that you are creatures? I ask this because there are people who are sure that the Creator created them but because other people told them that the Creator created them.
Therefore, if the common man has not yet experienced his own creation within his inner self, he is still not a creation of anyone and still has no creator.
Start looking for whether you want absolute truth or are you content to live until the day you die and enjoy the small moments of life full of great agony......
So still ask what do we do if we want absolute truth???
If you were really looking for the absolute truth, you would turn on TV channel 66 and there you would be glued to the couch and you wouldn't believe how close it was to you...
But if you don't stick to the couch then you probably aren't looking for absolute truth but you are very curious about the universe....
Good luck to everyone on the way in...
"As long as there is a Jewish soul in the heart"
All the best to everyone
Moses
All kinds of reflections:
A. Zamir Cohen did not deal with the main question of the article in my opinion:
Why did the authors of the Torah or the Zohar not write down the science explicitly or in a way
Can be understood in two ways?
I really didn't like his response, nor his threats
(Whose descendants are we and why).
B. I'm not an atheist and I don't rule out religious people, but the Torah, in my opinion,
is a book of rules for those who believe in this way of life, not a book of science.
I have a lot of respect for this kind of religion.
third. One of Zamir Cohen's "stars" is Maimonides, but Zamir ignores this
That Rambam drew his knowledge of science from accepted foreign sources, and that he is not exactly
Loved the Zohar book!
Indeed, it is not a species that avoids that a rabbi can be a scientist or a doctor and succeed in his work.
Old verses can be interpreted left and right. And in general, why compromise between science and the Torah, why not between science and Greek mythology, the books of the Buddhists, and so on? What is the Jewish religion, which we happen to formally belong to, worth more than other religions?
To me as an atheist, no religion is superior to any other religion, and they are all means to control people.
The real reason is to link the Torah with science.
Read "Teacher of the Embarrassed" by the well-known Rabbi Moshe Ben Maimon - as Maimonides -
"From dust you come, and to dust you shall return" = evolution (primordial soup stage, - the living came from the dead -)
post Scriptum.
To Avi Blizovsky - I would appreciate it if you would respond
To all the dear commenters, I wanted to draw your attention.
Although I'm only in the XNUMXth grade, I wanted to add something, maybe I can help with something:
I'm half secular and half religious, I'm on the line and I haven't found my way for a long time.
This article and the comments on it helped me to evoke and connect several important pieces of information, and here is what I was able to understand: we (humans) are very strong, but wise and greater than me have already understood,
Every decision we make inevitably affects what will happen in the future, and this kind of responsibility, agree with me, is very scary.
Every word he says can affect my life and the lives of my relatives, this is a stressful thing like no other, and therefore, over the years, people have found to hang their fate on something they woven, deduced, or somehow understood, in order {perhaps} to reduce the mental pressure they were entangled in.
Maybe this is how the various religions and all their gods were created? How do you, the religious of your kind, get the prayer you mutter to yourself to be heard? Maybe it's all a coincidence? You can find a million cases where the very faith helped to overcome difficult cases - pay attention - the very faith, not necessarily the same God. If so, I can in any case conclude that belief in gods is revealed as a weakness. A very human weakness, but still.
By the way, regarding praying in a whisper, it reminds me of a beautiful saying: "I realized that I am God when I discovered that when I pray to God I am actually talking to myself..." I am not an infidel and I have no problem with either religious or secular people, I respect them because I understand that in our world everyone He who chose his path had to go through a struggle and he chooses his worldview.
In conclusion - in my opinion this bickering is unnecessary, and it does not lead us to anything good. In the book of XNUMX Samuel, if I'm not mistaken, there is a verse that says "A man will live by his faith", then God is angry, but in my opinion this is the way. Why wouldn't an Orthodox person from the womb and from birth say hello to a devout secularist just like that? That's not a bad thing! Just leave this religious war, that everyone will live for a better future [as kitschy as it is true,] and not to destroy the world. Eventually, we will all die and there will be no difference between sex, .
PS: God, sorry if I pissed you off.
Hanan:
You may define yourself as a traditional secularist, but I actually associate you with the religious shadows.
The words of Zamir and Amnon Yitzhak are full of lies and inaccuracies like pomegranates.
The rabbit does not rummage.
The individual and the Tigris do not come from a common source.
And no! It is immoral to stone gays and Shabbat violators!
Hanan
You write: "I suggest you to relax and think for a moment and look at yourselves how I was created could be from that ancient explosion or maybe from some small bug if you believe this you will see plans on the human body how it is drawn so well everything is in its place with perfect precision thousands of veins capillaries systems Some and others are really wonderful about it. We will be from an explosion or maybe from some bug that has evolved over millions of years. Really, it's really funny to hear it. Try to believe it, even though in your situation it can be difficult, you're really deep in it."
What I understood from your words is that you mean that there is no possibility that man was created just out of some mess but
God created it in a way where everything fits together perfectly.
I agree with the possibility that God created man and all, but I think you don't understand God very well
Or true. I am saying that there is a possibility that I do not understand enough what God is but I understand a little more than you
And I understand that there is a possibility that you and your ilk do not understand how man was created. Notice not who created but how it was created.
Hello, my name is Hanan Hiti and I define myself as a traditional secularist
And it really hurts to see how some Jews really deny their religion and history
I skimmed through the article and my eyes saw the part of the rabbit, is it above a ger or not (I encountered the same question myself not long ago) there are some opinions that are really against your opinion that the rabbit actually does raise a ger and it is very important even if your opinion
Unlike the truth, it is your duty to convey the whole truth, otherwise you will be just like the "religious" you are so afraid of.
I suggest you relax and think for a moment and look at yourself how I was created could be from that ancient explosion or maybe from some small bug if you believe in it you will see plans on the human body how it is drawn so well everything is in its place with perfect precision thousands of veins capillaries such and such systems really wonderful It will be from an explosion or maybe from some bug that has evolved over millions of years. Really, it's really funny to hear it. Try to believe it, even though in your situation it can be difficult, you're really deep into it.
As mentioned here in one of the comments, I recommend that you watch lectures by Rabbi Zamir Cohen on the Divorat website and on Rabbi Amnon Yitzchak's Shofar website, maybe you will hear answers to your questions there. It is important that you open your mind and understand that we have sinned. And to him we are his people and his flock of sheep. And with regard to the rabbit. But you shall not eat it from the top of the graze and from the hooves, the camel because it grazes and the hoof is not from the hooves, it is unclean to you. And the rabbit, because he lives on the ground and does not spread his hoof, he is unclean to you. And the hare, because it is a living animal and a hoof, not a spread, is unclean to you. And the pig, because he splits a hoof and he who drives a hoof and it lives will not live, it is unclean for you" (XNUMX:XNUMX-XNUMX).
http://www.hidabroot.org/CommunityDetail.asp?FaqID=15010
I assume that the two previous comments to this comment remain and are not deleted even though they do not say anything just so that the faces of their writers will be exposed to the public eye.
Let him be afraid. And try to confront him head on in a democratic debate whether Rabbi Zamir Cohen or Rabbi Amnon Yitzchak.
Dear Amnon Carmel,
You showed your true face. You are nothing more than just a poor joke who knows nothing about the heritage and the religion and faith that led the people of Israel through all the difficulties. You better stay in Australia for good.
Doss:
There are more lies in your short response than in Carmel's entire article, so the record in the field belongs to you!
The very idea that God, if he existed, would have had to encrypt his clues and they are revealed only in retrospect is so far-fetched that anything they write will be unnecessary, but there are people who had to write something because there are too many people who believe in these far-fetched things.
Carmel's article is full of gross distortions more than any other article I have read in my life on any possible subject. It takes a special talent to cram so many lies into a few lines.
pleasantness:
The religious (the matter has nothing to do with Judaism) delude themselves that by writing nonsense they are protecting themselves.
In fact they are defending themselves.
Moreover: every Hebrew mother who is no longer in exile will know. Anyone who wanted to attack Judaism knew that the Jews knew how to defend themselves.
I am responding to defend the degraded religion. (She is humiliated because she is being humiliated)
I could have ignored it, but because of my fear that people would interpret this ignoring as a lack of knowledge or a lack of confidence in the rightness of my way - I knew to respond.
I am excited for the same reason that you, Michael, would be excited if an article was written that disparaged democracy.
pleasantness:
Maybe it's hard for you to take it in, but the article is not meant to excite you.
It is simply intended to show that the claims made by the Babatists regarding the existence of scientific ciphers in the Torah are nothing but one big Babat - a collection of lies whose purpose is to bring people back to repentance.
What you actually said is that you agree with these things, so it is not clear why you are responding.
Indeed, even science is sometimes wrong. And the sages of Israel also admitted that they were sometimes wrong.
In addition, I am not at all moved by the fact that the Jewish people is small. Is that why he is not right? Wasn't Copernicus alone when he claimed that the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around? So where is the proportion really?
A long and contradictory response. You want to say that if the science proves the Torah (and Zamir Cohen does an octogenarian to find some connection) that means the science is fine and if it does not prove the Torah, it is probably wrong, and besides that - what kind of talk is this exactly when you look down on everyone who does not believe in God's Torah? Negotiations should reach some common denominator and not the surrender of the other party. Using words you can make a lot of hocus pocus, but if you start from a narrow point of view of blind faith of one of the smallest nations in the world that claims to be the one telling everyone what to do, this is already an exaggeration, enter into proportion.
Science versus religions is an international project shared by all, so its chances of reaching the truth are much higher according to its definition.
Rabbi Zamir Cohen's response to the slander in Amnon Carmel's article was published on the Hidbrot website here.
For request 17, I bring it here as written and worded:
In light of several requests from surfers who want to address the mocking arguments published by Mr. Amnon Carmel, against the book "The Upheaval", I would like to respond briefly.
I will point out that the words are written after deliberation, because I support respectful speech, and not referring to a mocking and trending style whose entire purpose is to distance Jews from God's teachings, which the very response to the writer and his words may give them some status of a legitimate style worthy of reference. I also do not like the need to descend in any way to the writer's style, for the purpose of an adequate response as required in such situations to fight back with her hair. However, due to the request of the applicants and their claim that being ignored could be misinterpreted, I am going beyond my scope.
Here is a quote of the main points of his words (for the avoidance of doubt, I will point out that the main points of his words were copied and pasted here without language corrections, despite his poor language in some places).
After the introduction, he moves on to his arguments with the words:
"Let's start with the first argument: the creation of the world. Cohen explains at length about the scientific world view that has prevailed since the time of the Greeks, about the galaxies, about the Hubble, the discovery of cosmic radiation, the expansion of the universe, the big bang, the calculations involved, discovery and all this while mentioning the names of many scientists, dates, numbers and other scientific data. It really sounds very impressive, and it is often true scientific data. But now is the time to ask what is the connection between these scientific data and the "Torah of Israel"? Then comes the concluding line, in which it is said that the proofs for the existence of the Big Bang...: "Provide conclusive scientific proof that the world was created!" Applause, mysterious bass sounds and move on to the next theme.
But wait - is there anything mentioned in the book of Genesis about the big bang? Is it written that God came out of a singular point from which the universe was created? Has anything been said about galaxies? About the complex chemical processes that accompanied the process? Maybe a word about cosmic radiation? no and no ! An ancient Akkadian mythological story is presented in the book of Genesis...
And now we must ask - what was the use of all the scientific stories, testimonies and numbers, if there is nothing between them and the Torah of Israel?"
Answer: a. Israel's theory did precede science in the bang theory as presented in the Zohar book. B. The story of creation in the cultures of the various nations, not only does it not weaken what is told in the Torah, but on the contrary, the testimony of a variety of people from different cultures in the world that this is how they received from their ancestors that the world was created, strengthens the position of Judaism. After all, they are all descendants of the first Adam and it is no wonder that the fact of creation passed through their heritage in general terms. third. Mr. Carmel subtly mentions the main message of this chapter in "The Upheaval" and immediately moves the discussion to another place. The whole point of this chapter is intended to indicate the change that took place in the scientific concept that was dominant from the ancient Greek philosophy until the beginning of the twentieth century, that the universe was not created but had existed since time immemorial. The Big Bang theory is a scientific turning point which led scientists to declare for the first time: "We were wrong for two thousand years! The world did appear at some point!” And since then, the word "healthy", which was forbidden to be used in the world of science, became very useful. This revolutionary conclusion is the position of the Torah that the world was created. Is it possible to say about this perceptual revolution of science in the question of the creation of the universe that "there is nothing between this and the Torah of Israel" - as Mr. Carmel said?
And if the story of the explosion is what Mr. Carmel wants to find in Judaism, here is the language of the Zohar:[1]
"Ta hazi kad baa kudsha brich is lambri elmin afik had nahora satimaa, daman that nahora nefkin and naharin kol inon nahorin dathglein And from that, we were commanded to make Nefkin, and to spread him, and to enslave him, and the rest of us were commanded, and Iho Alma came up. Tu Atfet Hai Nahora Alaa and Abd Umna Nahora Dla Nahir and Abed Alma Tithaa. And for this, we were ordered to call him to the house. And in Bakshura Deltata I will call Athanarah in Kashura Delaila and the island of Nahura Dela Nahir in Kshura Delaila I will bring every hilin and armor to Zinin Segain."
Translation: "Come and see. When the Holy One, blessed be He, wanted to create the worlds, He brought out one blinded light, from which light came out and illuminated all the lights that were revealed. And from that light came forth and spread and became the other lights which are the upper world. This upper light spread further, and artfully made a light that does not illuminate [an epithet for the beginning of the appearance of the perceptible universe] and the lower [material] world was made. And since it is a light that does not illuminate, it needs to be bound above [to receive illumination and existence] and it also needs to be bound below [in the actions of humans that arouse the upper abundance to come down to it and sustain it]. And by the bond below we are bound to be enlightened by the bond above. And the light that does not illuminate, through the upper connection [its spiritual root], brought out all the armies and private camps of all the many species."
After all, we have a spectacular description of the creation process, starting from the beginning of the appearance of the spiritual primary light until the appearance of the perceptible light and the fulfillment of the universe, with a great moral lesson about the greatness of man and the great responsibility placed on him in every action he takes. And this without going into the full scope of these deep words in the Zohar that contain a lot of information, which the sages of Kabbalah expand on in their explanation.
We will briefly note that the source of Zohar's words is in the verse "And God said let there be light, and there was light" (Genesis XNUMX:XNUMX). It is clear that this verse does not refer to the light of the sun, since it was only created on the fourth day, while this verse describes the beginning of the creation of the universe.
By the way, in the book "The Upheaval" there is no applause nor mysterious bass sounds as Mr. Carmel said. Noel's attempt to add this in his words is obviously intended to influence the reader and indirectly incite him against the book, in a way that is nothing but cheap demagoguery.
Here is the continuation of the author's words:
"Let's move on to the next example: in the story of creation it is stated that God differentiated between the water under the firmament and the water above the firmament. So far everything is true, it is indeed written in Genesis XNUMX verse XNUMX. But the converts already take one step further and add their own interpretation that the water above the sky is the water in space. In the Halacha it is written that the upper waters are superior to the lower waters, and that the upper waters are frozen like ice icicles. And again we come to the scientific part - explanations of the history of science, how the scientists in the past could not know about this, the story is told about the meteor that hit the Russian steppes at the beginning of the twentieth century, how much it weighed, where it came from, how many comets are there in the area from which this meteor came, how many There is water in these comets and how many Earths they can fill and explanations about spacecraft that discovered water in other stars in the solar system. And the conclusion - the amount of water on Earth is small compared to the amount of water in the universe. wow Bravo. really amazing. There is indeed more water in the universe than on Earth. But there are also more metals, there is much more hydrogen, helium and in fact there is more of any other substance in the universe than on Earth. Water is only a tiny particle of the universe. The ancients knew water, because it is a main and important substance on the earth, and from there they cast on the universe.
Here we are again witnessing a situation where an innocent verse is taken - "and a difference was made between the waters under the sky and the waters above the sky" and they clothed it with different scientific stories...
If these explanations are so unequivocal, how come not a single learned Jew stood up throughout history and brought explanations about the water in other planets. How is it that they suddenly discovered this important information after science discovered the water in the universe? If Jews have been reading and studying the Torah for thousands of years, how come they didn't recognize all this before?"
In order to justify his arguments, Mr. Carmel decided to attribute to the "repentants" what Ezra the Stone wrote, who lived about nine hundred years ago, that the layer of air that surrounds the earth is what is called here by the name 'sky'. And the truth is that this is the simplest of words in the Torah. After all, the sky is the blue sky - a mirror created in the atmospheric layer. It is clear, then, that 'above the sky' means: outside the atmosphere. After all, we have a verse in the Bible that says that there is water outside the atmosphere (by the way, the words of the Ezra stone are quoted in "The Reversal" as they are with the source in which they appear. It is difficult to say that Mr. Carmel was mistaken in attributing this to the author of the book). This information was completely delusional in the world of science until the beginning of the twentieth century. And the greater wonder is that in the midrash (and not 'in the halacha', as the author says, who lacks basic knowledge of Jewish literature, but finds himself worthy of expressing an opinion in a field not his own) scientific details are presented that were considered even more puzzling in those days, which were revealed to scientists only recently as detailed in the book.
Other materials that exist in space are not impressive. After all, it has always been known that there are material stars or hot stars in space. And the words "Wow. Bravo. Really amazing" which the writer added with a laugh were intended to cover up the weakness of his claims, as is known to those who understand wording.
As for the claim "How come not a single Jewish scholar has stood up throughout history and brought explanations about the water in other planets. How is it that they suddenly discovered this important information after science discovered the water in the universe? If Jews have been reading and studying the Torah for thousands of years, how come they didn't recognize all this before?" I wonder about the seemingly educated writer: were the words of the midrash written today? The fact that a person like him does not open the books of the spiritual treasures of the people of Israel, does not make these books non-existent. Jews knew and knew all this before, except that before the scientists discovered these details, none of them was ready to accept or at least quote the words of Judaism.
[By the way, regarding the efforts of Mr. Carmel and his friends from the various apostate organizations, to distance the young people of Israel from the values of Judaism, by scaring them from the same nicknames that made him derogatory: "Repenters". I would like to take this opportunity to make it clear: if repentance means the corruption of morals and depravity of actions, quarrels, insults, insults and anger with family members and with everyone around, violent demonstrations and throwing stones, then I also join wholeheartedly in the resolute opposition to it. But if it means improving morals and correcting actions, sensitivity to others, respect for parents and everyone around, kindness and volunteering, and this from studying the Torah of God and keeping His commandments, then I am an enthusiastic follower of it. And a painful personal question for Mr. Carmel and all his friends: doesn't your conscience prick you when you read the newspapers and watch the media about what is happening around you? How many young men and women in Israel have been physically and mentally harmed or harmed others, murdered or murdered, raped or raped, hospitalized and even died from drugs and violence and all the other sick evils of Israeli society, when it is clear that if they had been educated according to the values of Judaism, many of them would have lived healthy and reasonably balanced lives ? How many parents could have been happy with their children instead of suffering bitterness from them? How many could happily lead their children to the beach instead of leading them to hospitalization and even burial? Even if you are not religious people, why are you trying to weaken the education of Jewish values and culture? Is it because of the mistakes of a few "religious people" who behave not according to the Torah, that the entire nation of Israel should be harmed? And in short: are you ready to take the conscientious responsibility for even just one guy, whose life could have been different for the better, but was destroyed (not only in the next world, also in this world) because of your mocking words about God's teachings, combined with the natural passions of every person?] .
We will continue to patiently read the scoffer's words as they are:
"Whale music, some echo, and hop - here we moved to the next topic: comets. Again scientific explanations, names of professors, dates and interesting scientific information but without any relevance, and then the punch line - in the book of Deuteronomy it is written: "From the rain of the sky, drink water". And the interpretation: since it is not said from the rain of the clouds of the sky, then the reference is to the high sky, that is, to the outer space, and hence the reference is to the water in the meteors in the outer space. Say - are you serious? It is written from the rain of the sky drink water - I was taught that the rain of the sky is rain, and it really contains water and you can really drink the water. How the hell did you get from here to water in asteroids in outer space?! Why distort the scriptures? With such a fictional interpretation, one can even find satanic messages when playing the songs of the beetles backwards... How can people with minimal logic be expected to accept such absurd and meaningless interpretations?"
It is very puzzling what the writer got up to, after he himself left out and omitted the main part of what was written in this impressive and special chapter in "The Upheaval".
Don't we also know that at a superficial glance it seems that the Bible is referring to rain. However, Mr. Carmel's bewilderment actually points to the amazing and wonderful in the Creator's teachings. In the book "The Reversal" the words of Rabbi Yehoshua, who lived about two thousand years ago, were quoted. And he, who is well versed in the language of the Torah,[2] writes explicitly that the wording of the verse in the Torah is not a parable for the rain that is seen falling from the sky, but the Torah means every word. "For the rain of heaven you shall drink water" - "The whole world, from the upper waters (which is outside the atmosphere as explained above) - he drinks!" Something that became known to scientists only in our time, through the use of photographs of innovative devices in which masses of meteors made of ice are seen entering our world from space, melting and turning into water.
Every intelligent, objective person should learn from this how far the knowledge of the Torah sages reached during the Mishnah and Talmud period, and the strength of their faith in the words of the Torah, to the point that even things that seemed very puzzling until very recently, were clear and completely true to them only because it is written in the book of the Creator. And this is a wonderful example that teaches how to refer also to the rest of the Torah of Israel, in data that science has not yet been able to discover or even opposes.
We will continue:
"Mysterious music, waves and here is the next topic:
Here is a particularly favorite story of mine - the Zohar supposedly describes that the world is round. Let's assume that the translated and interpreted citations to the Zohar book are indeed correct. Detailed scientific explanations are coming again, this time including all kinds of ancient theories about giant turtles that hold the world and that the world is flat. Again we return to the claim that the scientists in the past could not know that the world is round. But what is it? One sentence later, they suddenly mention the Greek sages who claimed that the world is round. Hmmm…. Interesting - the Greek sages preceded the Zohar book. This completely sterilizes the whole idea of truth in the Torah (by the way, the Zohar is not really the Torah, but it is). Can we conclude from this that Zeus is real? Should we start offering sacrifices to the gods on Olympus? I'm sure the rabbis will be disappointed to hear that before the Zohar there were Greek philosophers who claimed that the earth was a sphere. In fact, Pythagoras learned the claim about the sphericity of the earth from his Egyptian teachers, while the belief that the earth is flat generally stems from the Indian and Babylonian religion and has always been controversial, much like the Jewish story of creation. This passage from the Zohar perhaps shows that the sages of Israel were in the right school, but they have no monopoly on this knowledge. The hypothesis about the sphericity of the earth was a hypothesis that has been nested in the hearts of many sages for thousands of years, and it is not unique to Judaism in any way. And we must go back and ask - if the Book of Zohar really revealed to the Jews the secret of the round world, why didn't the Jews go out in ships to circumnavigate the world, to conquer new territories , and find treasures, like the Europeans did when they realized that the world is round?
Answer: The admiration of the words of the Zohar comes from:
A. From the set of many data that appear there, as expanded in the book "The Upheaval". Data that are not self-evident - according to the level of information that the people of those days had.
B. Above all, the Zohar testifies that these data and more were taken from the book of Rabbi Manuna Saba (one of Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai's rabbis) and even more ancient numbers, which were received from their rabbis from person to person until the first Adam. Neither from measurements nor from studies done by anyone. That is, we had this information from the Torah literature even before the Greeks and even before the Egyptians began to think about such a possibility.
It should be noted that in "The Upheaval" it is explicitly written that there were some Greek sages who claimed that the world was round, contrary to the popular opinion among most nations until about five hundred years ago (by the way, I recently heard that in Brazil, a few years ago, they celebrated the five hundredth anniversary of the discovery that the world is round). And already in the words of the sages, evidence is given about the existence of this opinion among the Greeks. And unlike Mr. Carmel's use of cheap demagoguery, no one tried to gloss over this fact.
And to the point of the question: if the Zohar revealed to the Jews that the world is round, "why didn't the Jews go out in ships to circumnavigate the world, conquer new territories and find treasures", the answer is simple. As we know, the author of the Book of Zohar lived after the destruction of the Temple, and it is clear that during the exile, when the Jews were concerned with survival, no one was free to go around the world, conquer new territories and find treasures. However, Mr. Carmel will be surprised to learn that long before the exile there were indeed Jews who did this. In XNUMX Kings, chapter XNUMX, it is written that King Solomon's men from time to time set out on ships for a long three-year voyage and brought back quantities of "gold and silver, ivory, monkeys and parrots" from each such voyage. By the way, according to Dr. Hadassah Melamed in her book "The Secret of the Flood", in these long journeys they went to the American continent and brought the great booty from there.
Here is the continuation of the writer's words, which do not refer to the "transformation", but the ongoing tendency to slander the teachings of the God of his ancestors screams from his words to the point of a serious and confusing distortion:
"Make no mistake - unlike the vague quotes we have mentioned so far, the Torah knows how to be clear and explicit. In the Torah, in the Bible and in the Mishnah, many embarrassing mistakes are very clearly indicated, from which it is clear that the person who wrote the Torah, had no idea about science, and certainly did not come close to the knowledge of modern science.
A particularly embarrassing example of this can be found in a so-called divine decree that is mentioned in the Book of Desert in the chapter "Nesha". This is an apparently unequivocal test designed to allow men to find out if their woman is cheating on them with another man. The test goes like this: the suspicious man brings (or more likely - drags) his wife to the high priest. The priest takes a clay vessel, fills it with water and mixes in it dirt that he collects from the floor of the tabernacle. He puts the suspected woman in a particularly humiliating position, pulls out her hair and orders her to drink the mud water. The woman of course must obey and say after drinking the mud "Amen and Amen". If she farts after drinking the mud water, then she is unfaithful and it is likely that in those days her sentence would be death by stoning. Make no mistake, this is not just a custom mentioned in the Torah, but an explicit divine command. That is, God himself will make those unfaithful women fart. I swear to you that I'm not making this up."
The truth is that it is difficult for me to descend to the low level of the writer and his cheap language. And almost because of this cheapness I completely avoided commenting on his words. But since the serious words were published to many, the engendered honor of the Torah and the pain of those who turn to reply to these blasphemous words led me to go beyond my line and reply.
I don't know if this is a clear ignorance or a malicious distortion of what is written in the Torah. Either way, the writer sins against the truth and his readers.
Here is the language of the Torah (Bamadbar XNUMX, XNUMX-XNUMX): "A man because his wife has lied, and she has been raised above him... and the priest swore to her with the oath of the goddess... In God's hand, your thigh will fall and your belly will rise... and water the water." And there was a mother who was defiled and defiled above... and her belly was distended and her thigh fell and the woman was one of those among her people. And if the woman is not defiled, she is pure, and she was cleansed and seed was sown."
Any intelligent reader understands that "her belly was laid" in his interpretation: her belly will grow and swell until she dies a strange death in a miraculous way. And according to Rashi there, the explanation of the word 'tseva': 'swollen'. And not 'reduction' as Mr. Carmel's strange understanding and his repulsive wording.
And if the writer swears on these vain words that he is not making this up - probably thinking that all readers are as ignorant as he is in understanding what is read in the Bible, and are also gullible to accept any interpretation from those who have neither read it nor studied it - how should his words be treated on any other Jewish subject?
By the way, in the above verses it is written that if the woman has not sinned and is suspected of being free, she will be propitiated by giving birth the next year even if by nature she is a barren woman (!) Who would dare to make such a commitment other than the Creator who controls all of creation?
The continuation of the writer's "difficulties" also go beyond the "upheaval", and have already been answered by others (see for example http://emet1.com/?page_id=90). Nevertheless, I will refer here to the first of them (from one of the chapters in the second part of "The Upheaval" which will be published soon in Israel) and from which we must learn for the rest.
Here is the writer's "difficulty":
"Other mistakes, no less embarrassing, can be found in the Oral Torah and the knowledge of sages. For example, it is claimed that lice are created from dirt and human sweat. Sages emphasized the matter, and although they were aware of the lice eggs, they claimed that it was a different kind of creeper, and not the eggs from which lice hatch. The Rambam also supported this opinion when we warned of eating (and I quote): "The vermin that emerge from the rotten ones." He goes on to explain that "the crawling creep is the crawling creep that emerges from the rotten ones that will not give birth to its like."
Answer: The writer is not aware of the fact that the Sages knew the two types of lice, the existence of one of which became known to scientists only recently.
In tractate Shabbat (Page XNUMX, XNUMX) the Sages speak of a louse that is not a cow and a male and female rabba, therefore it is not considered as all animals and is allowed to be killed on Shabbat. And in another place, the Talmud says (Gittin Deaf Set, EB) that there is "a male louse and a female". That is, a louse formed from a male and a female.
Only after about fifteen hundred years had passed since the signing of the Talmud, scientists became aware of the existence of a family of lice that received the name "the chewing lice" which, unlike most types of lice, do not breed from a male and a female but from self-reproduction where the female fertilizes herself. And the writer's difficulty has become proof that the Sages preceded science (and since the writer and his friends will probably try to argue about this matter and I do not intend to engage in arguments, I will refer from now on to the expansion of the matter in the books of the "Nazar Cohen" report, number XNUMX, letter XNUMX).
In summary: the writer sins precisely in what he accuses the religious. He uses data concealment and improper demagoguery and upholds the Sage's article in the tractate Kiddoshin (page XNUMX, XNUMXa) "All the invalid - in Momo is invalid."
And three points to finish.
1. In the book "The Upheaval" I made sure to check each study at its source with scientists who are experts in their field and to indicate in each chapter the sources of the scientific studies and of every Torah data presented in the book. And this is so that any objective reader who is looking for the truth can check for himself the data that appears in each chapter (and by the way, this is the answer to the question of many why not every scientific topic in the "Torah and Science" booklets was included in the book. Being at the beginning of my writing journey, I believed that data from various sources could be trusted which would have seemed reliable, without me checking their scientific accuracy myself. However, after it became clear that this was not the case, I invested a lot in the transformation in clarifying the sources of the studies and only a scientific source that turned out to be reliable was included in the book).
2. On the subject where the opinions differ among the scholars, and one side is guided by the Torah, it is clear to us as Jews that this side is right and as has been proven countless times.
3. A gross mistake is made by slanderers of Mr. Carmel's type, since they believe that the Jewish faith rests only on scientific research. These interesting scientific data, in turn, are nothing more than ornaments and decorations added to the palace of splendor of the divine doctrine of eternity. But God's law will not stand or fall on them, God forbid. Regarding the correct reference to the scientific information in the Torah, see the chapter "With the conclusion" at the end of the book "The Transformation", where the words of the sages of Israel were brought up who in what they researched the affairs of the world and concluded on their own and did not receive from their teachers, and finally came to see that justice was with the sages of the nations of the world, they thanked the sages of the nations and did not shame them . But information received from the Creator is an eternal truth, even if it temporarily seems different to someone else. And like the many examples that exist in "The Upheaval" and more.
Mr. Carmel should be reminded that all of us, the entire Jewish people alive today and Amnon Carmel among them, are the descendants of the Maccabees and not the descendants of the Greeks. The descendants of the Pharisees and not the descendants of the Sadducees. All the latter and their ilk who rose up against the Torah in the past, have disappeared over the generations. And the people of Israel in the future will be the descendants of those who are faithful to the Torah and not the descendants of those who kick it.
[1] Zohar Parashat Vaizda Daf Kano, a.
[2] On the unique and impressive language of the Torah, which is playful every heart after you delve deeper into it, see examples in the books "The Code".
מקור: http://www.hidabroot.org/ARDetail.asp?BlogID=111214
By the way, my father, regarding the Zohar: it was indeed written in the Middle Ages, but the ideas written in it were known by the sages of Israel even before the Christian era began.
Simply, at some point the sages decided to publish what was known only for a little while.
And one more thing: The Zohar is not a book like all books. It is recommended not to read it like you read other cultural books.
pleasantness:
feel well
for pleasure Not these responses, but if you want such as it is a secret and not everyone needs to know (the opposite of the correct scientific approach), that the Zohar is the Torah (all in all, a book of thought written in the Middle Ages should not exaggerate).
There is no point in even addressing meaningless statements one by one. And as for the mayor, I guess you don't know but I am one of Ron Huldai's fiercest critics. I really won't be hurt if someone criticizes things he said or did (or didn't do, such as not handling the Haredi takeover of Ramat Aviv where I live).
Good week everyone, how are you?
I am writing in my own name and in my own opinion only and I will try to respond here to most of the claims made by Amnon Carmel even though there were already responses that tried to confront the contradictions like Daniel in response 68 and also response 89. The rest of the responses were a debate as to whether faith is in reason or emotion. Then I will also try to address some of the comments posted by the users:
Deep breath………. So:
1. The myths that the author talked about - where did they come from? From the first person! Menachem and Abraham who spread the Torah to the whole world (!). Although over the years the information transmitted has been distorted and thus different myths have been created for them.
2. There are no exact explanations in the Torah for every detail in the world. Our Torah is not a science book, nor was the Torah invented for science. Also, the Torah is not a history book. You need to be very careful when you want to extract information contained in the Torah and you need to check with those who have the authority to interpret the Torah.
3. Amnon Carmel writes: "How is it that they suddenly discovered this information" - the sages of Israel do not hand over information to any snooping vulture. The wisdom of the Torah is a secret and secrets are not revealed to anyone.
4. By the way, Zohar is really Torah. And even the heart of the Torah except that not everyone is allowed to access it.
5. The sages of Israel do not have a monopoly on scientific knowledge. They do not pretend to establish a monopoly on science. Also their knowledge - a considerable part of it - came to them through prophets and not through scientific discoveries.
6. And why didn't the Jews go out in ships to circumnavigate the world if they knew it was round? The reason is simple: because it is futile. Our goal is not to conquer the world.
7. I am asking for unequivocal proof of the high priest's examination of the suspicious woman. And why, for God's sake, did Amnon Carmel swear on this? An oath is not child's play! In the past, humanity treated oaths with severity!
8. "However, history proves to us that the meaning of the word has not changed throughout the generations" - where does history prove this? And - yes, the Torah's claim about the fact that the rabbit ruminates contrary to the claim of science - is not a contradiction. And I actually do accept that the rabbit of then is not the rabbit of today.
9. The biblical writer did know how to express his views well, but we don't always understand them. In any case, we will study the Bible and whoever errs will err, and it is not because of him that we will give up the book of books.
10. I state unequivocally that the Torah of Israel necessarily encodes hidden scientific truths. And she was very afraid of people who would use the information against her. And she was rightly afraid.
And now let me address the comments:
Avi Blizovsky - Criticism of a rabbi - even though he is one person - hurts an entire public. Because the rabbi is his leader. If your mayor was hurt, my father would be hurt too. now you understand?
And why did you write "there is no net science without atheism" - do you mean it? I am religious and I studied matriculation in science subjects and I did not become an atheist!
Michael R. We do not disagree on many things: we both agree that the rabbis are not stupid, that science can be reconciled with the Torah, science is not always right and scientific questions need to be answered. What do I disagree with you about? At the point in the article there are answers. What answers? Point them out and I'll try to disprove them! Not afraid of scientific arguments!
Moreover, why didn't you bother, Michael, to find out where the author got the meaning "from a fart"? Do you suppose it was taken from the holy books? What really? Please enlighten my eyes!
And why is the question of whether the rabbit is ruminant unimportant - in your opinion? In my opinion, this is a very important scientific detail! Who like you knows that in science it is forbidden to round corners and not quarter the circle! And even Nefka appointed to Halacha and to my daily life - to my culinary kitchen: I occasionally eat meat at noon. Who guarantees me that it is kosher? Maybe it came from a rabbit or a pig that decided to stop rumination?
Another thing, Michael, morality that is not built on Torah is a distortion! I am glad that you came to the conclusion that the Bible is the only book that represents human history. But our Torah is not a history book and I already wrote in note 2 that the Torah is not a history book.
And why do you think that God will not forgive transgressions, even serious ones? The Gemara tells of a man who spent his entire life in grave transgressions and at the end of his days he repented and God forgave him!
Sabdarmish Yehuda - Religious people are indeed capable of being cruel (see Michael R.'s response number 423). But what is the connection to repeating the question? Are all religious people cruel, have all religious people been cruel to their children who returned the question? Why are you including everyone?
Badi fans - the Torah and God are superior to us, but we have abilities and tools to understand them. In relation to God - understanding is limited in advance and in relation to the Torah - greater understanding the more righteous we become. And why don't we have tools? The Sages of Israel are the authority to interpret the Torah. And they received this authority from God. don't believe me
Higgs- "All the arguments presented above do not even scratch something from the methodology of the Torah"? What really? I saw with my own eyes that it says so! Want proof from the holy books? I'm asking seriously.
Hagit - The truth is that I considered writing the next thing first, but constraints and complexities prevented me from doing so until now: "And this is probably where the fart comes from" - who told you, Hagit, that this is exactly what the author of the article meant? did you ask him Or are you just bringing a side to his words? Since when did "probably" become a pure scientific term? I would be happy if you wised me up.
Shloki - you are the last one: maybe his honor forgot that in Hebrew the word means blessing = curse, Aliba from the author of the article. Hebrew is a hard language!
So that's it, I'll ask the esteemed readers to correct me, in case I'm wrong.
Have a great week!
Every extra word is superfluous
http://nimrodavissar.com/blogica/archives/673
Itzik:
Regarding the attitude towards the Gentiles, you are welcome to read a summary of the issue here:
http://www.daatemet.org.il/articles/article.cfm?article_id=119&lang=he
In any case - response 413 did not deal with gentiles at all but with Jews.
To Michael R. (formerly Michael),
Although it has been a while and I am not sure if you are following the comments here, I wanted to respond to your comment #413, regarding the quote from Rambam on the attitude of Judaism to Gentiles. Well, things seemed very disturbing to me. And I went out and explored. I found a good source at http://www.ypt.co.il/show.asp?id=19086. Briefly, imagine you are in Nazi Germany and the gentile in question is an SS officer. Would you lift a finger to save him? And for example, the things you brought talk about gentiles who are considered "wicked", whether you agree with this definition or not. Nowadays, and I am quoting from the above source, "Therefore, the gentiles are defined nowadays as residents and the laws do not apply to them anyway." (The "therefore" is due to the existence of the 7 commandments of Noah's sons, which are the main points of Western morality if you will). In other words, we are talking about other times and other people (and there is no need to mention the attitude of the "Gentiles" to the Jews throughout history).
I also quote Uri Zvi Greenberg's poem quoted there:
Indeed we are of the blood of man in the image of his pattern
God created.. and what about the animal's blood: they come from the forest
And from the field.. and to them both the forest and the field.
And all that is built for glory - a shell of art and more covers:
From a house - an animal they are: as an animal in a cage.. and there is a day
Burglars are closed, they are broken open: beasts of prey:
Blood and fire for their people, in everything they turn to around them.
How we-perpetual-prey didn't know all this
Up to now? How we do not know even now
In full-sadness-of-the-known-knowledge: because they are the animal?!
And this is the best of their songs, their music, and the wonders of their creation
They are the skin of the animal; They are the outer tissue on it!
Each shade is a cover; Every sound is a coating;
And we, the hated humans,
Let's see now: naked... and we'll understand:
Who we are, who they are.
--------
And if I didn't know that the words were written against the background of the actions of the Nazis, I would have been very disturbed by these words as well.
In conclusion, I did not come to argue. You brought up a point that really piqued my curiosity and I think I found (at least for me) an explanation that makes sense and I chose to share it with you.
It's interesting that a partial article is full of inaccuracies and taking things out of context. It received support and curiosity from so many readers. Something tickles the hearts of the people at the heart of the "creator of evil" and he is called to it and he cheers and celebrates. In order to contradict a person's words or Torah, you must first of all learn and understand the subject in depth if you do not do so. You are like a "donkey jumps on the head". And on this it was also said by the wise of all people, "Oh, the deaf to the wise will consider". So far it is enough for the wise to allude .
psychologist:
Doubt is a good thing but the scientists, unlike you, are not content with asking questions. They also try to answer them.
If you are satisfied with asking questions then you might be satisfied with asking something like "If God created the world then how did nature create God?" or something like that.
If you think the first question that should be asked is about the soul then read here:
https://www.hayadan.org.il/is-soul-exist-2501098/
for miracles b.
The existence of this or that creator certainly does not follow from quantum theory,
Quantum theory does not necessitate the existence of an intelligent observer.
Quantum theory does not necessitate the existence of an observer outside the universe
Are all means kosher to prove what cannot be proven?
for miracles b.
The Malobitsch Rebbe was drawn to the question of the six days of creation, and especially to the possibility that each day of creation lasted millions of years and more.
His answer was unequivocal: each day of creation lasted exactly 24 hours, otherwise the Sabbath would lose its meaning - it is impossible to imagine a Sabbath that lasted millions of years.
Rebbe Malovitch stubbornly claimed that the world was created about 6000 years ago and science is simply wrong.
Einstein developed two theories of relativity: the special and the general, so your comment about the lack of universality is apparently intended to mislead innocent readers - not nice.
I very much doubt it....perhaps the entire creation is the work of nature, but nature cannot create wisdom, and human beings with emotions: love, desire, joy, speech, jealousy, sadness, etc. Have you ever dared to investigate the phenomenon of reincarnation and whether It does exist, research it first because a building is built from the ground up
The fool does not ask questions, the wise man is never satisfied!!!
Dawn:
Your words require detail.
Would anyone who thinks one plus one equals two be a fool if he never changes his mind?
A fool is a person who never changes his mind.
To Jacob:
And so that everyone knows what it is like to be "inside this system" that claims that the rabbit raises rumens, the cow and the Tigris come from the same source and mice are created from the withered - here is an exact quote from her:
The sexes, and they are worshipers of idolatry from Israel, or the one who commits offenses to anger, even eats a filth or wears something to anger, then this is sex, and the hypocrites, and those who disbelieve in the Torah and prophecy from Israel - a commandment to kill: if he has the power to kill with a sword in pershasia, he kills; And if not, he will come at them in plots until he kills them. How: He saw one of them fall into the well, and the ladder was in the well first and removed the ladder, and said to him, I was busy getting my son down from the roof and we returned it to you. And so on in these things. But the Gentiles where there is no war between us and them, and herders of thin cattle from Israel and the like - there is no turning back for them to die. and it is forbidden to save them; If they were inclined to die, such as he saw one of them fall into the sea - it is not above him: as it is said, "You shall not stand on the blood of your soul" (Leviticus XNUMX:XNUMX), and it is not your soul.
Mishna Torah, Book of Damages, Laws of a Murderer and Preservation of Soul, Chapter XNUMX, Verses XNUMX-XNUMX.
I read the article
My summary:
superficiality
A minimal lack of understanding of Chazal's articles
The writer does not go into the depth of things and raises theories
There is no trace of heresy here, because to be one you have to be from the system
And the writer is not like that and it is good that it is so
humble:
I concluded.
Exported to 78
Do you expect me to read all this? Sum it up right away
lion:
How many things are true in such a short sentence! 🙂
Miracles b. How many ignorances and how many things are wrong in such a short passage.
I read the article and it is too edited probably that Keren will always want to distance his testimony.
In the historical evidence the scientists believed much more nonsense than the religious Jews. The latter at least persisted in their faith. For example, the belief that the earth is a flat tray on the backs of elephants standing on a turtle. This was a legitimate scientific theory of the 'enlightened'. Einstein himself, who wrote the theory of relativity, when asked what he would do if it turned out to be wrong, said "because then I feel sorry for God because my soul is right". Of course this theory is incorrect and he changed its name to special relativity because it is not universal. And let's not talk about Einstein's war in quantum theory, which only proved the factor of uncertainty that requires the existence of the Creator in order for it to exist (for example, the Big Bang can never happen because a single particle of matter remains in superposition until there is an intelligent factor that makes an observation/measurement, by the way, this factor must be outside our universe).
In short, Amon, I recommend that you rewrite your article.
post Scriptum.
By the way, the part with the days of creation really does not add respect to you. Even the biggest idiot among them gave meaning to the day even before there was a sun, moon and stars. Also think about how the Torah begins creation with light? Maybe Einstein wrote this verse???
I read the article
Great article
Align power
May God bless you with all the best in the world ^_^
And you have a user who preaches morals to you without knowing the meaning of the word chance.
I'm afraid to disappoint you.
God will not forgive you.
The name does not exist.
May the Lord forgive you for all the sins and blasphemy you commit on this site, and may you gain some wisdom, and realize that you have no understanding of God's wisdom, and with God's help, that you will return to repentance soon.
There is no need to write a comment, because the chance that I will visit this site again is purely coincidental….
Yehuda:
The guy's real name is Hazan.
I don't know how you found this out because it can't be calculated from the problem data.
You probably know the case 🙂
Avi:
I don't think she will return to us in the near future.
She already saw that she was defeated even before I presented the problem to her and therefore "came off the tree" by lying to us that she was going to look for "higher level" forums.
Dear Michael
You should have made it easy for her and told her that there are sixty minutes in an hour, and also given her data on the guy's walking speed, the speed of the car and its model.
And by the way, what do you think of the guy being called a cantor?
Happy Holidays
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Hello Lahan from the Rashalat dialing area.
Sorry for the haste before, but I rushed to an interesting lecture at the Icon conference, the results of which I hope to bring to the website in the coming days (panel on Arthur C. Clarke).
I just didn't understand from your last response whether my answer regarding Einstein was to your liking or not?
Yehuda:
The only hint I would give her at this point is to go back to elementary school and this time listen in class.
This is not such a difficult question and there is no reason to start solving it here.
It is better that every time she talks and condescends she can be brought back here so that she understands her true dimensions.
To Michael
Can you give me a hint?
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Grace:
Do you think you are smarter than us?
Let's see how intelligent you are.
I'll ask you an elementary school level math question and we'll see if you can answer.
I ask all the others not to interfere, this is a really easy question and there is no need for you to try to solve it because the fact that you succeed will not prove anything. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that Chen isn't even capable of that:
One man finishes his work every day at 16:00 p.m.
At the end of work, he gets on the train (exactly at 16:00) and gets off at the station closest to his home.
His wife leaves the house with her car and arrives at the train station with him.
He gets off the train straight to the car and they go home.
One day (on the holiday) there was less work and he left work an hour earlier (ie - if you don't know subtraction, at 15:00 p.m.).
His wife did not know about this and left the house at the usual time, so when he reached the train station, he started walking towards the house.
At some point along the way he met his wife, got in the car, and they returned home.
When they got home he looked at the clock and saw that they had arrived 10 minutes earlier than usual.
Assuming that the speed of the train is constant, the speed of the car is constant, the walking speed is constant and no time is wasted on stops - how long did he walk?
Grace
Educated Sir from you
Your lowered tongue and the cracks of your broken tongue identify you within your community.
The advertisement for your sister's company in your own words:
The company in management - gay, Arab, works idols, atheist.
Sounds like casting for a low budget Indian Turkish film.
Are you tired?! Don't wait, do it.
Abby, my response was recorded before I read your last response.
This is the spirit I'm looking for.
But still, I retire to look for more level forums
Grace:
There is no need for you to declare the level of your response in advance.
Everyone sees that it is very low from the very things that appear in it.
I wonder what philosophical thing you contributed to the discussion, after all your words are personal attacks, defamation and lies (except that you occasionally quote other people who are not liars like you).
The debate with you cannot, therefore, be "made" personal because this is the debate you cracked in the first place.
Know that the mind is much more important to the quality of life than cosmetics and it doesn't surprise me at all that you are a beautician. Here I actually believe you said something right, for a change.
It's interesting that your brother-in-law - after knowing your sister long enough for him to marry you, needed this discussion on the Internet to be convinced of your lies. What - didn't you talk before?
Get rid of us because you make us ashamed of the fact that we belong to the same biological species to which you belong.
Higgs, and all the rest,
I'm tired of you
Or you will make more reasonable claims and fewer slanders arising from incompetence.
Like little children, when someone says something they don't like, their response is "you're stupid".
Hey Higgs, what does my boss, my moustache, the copy paste I did or didn't do have anything to do with the logic behind what I wrote down.
You can't respond logically, so you curse and insult?
I've given up on all the impotents on this site.
Either someone a little intelligent, albeit with different opinions than mine, will join me in a fun brain duel, or I retire and never return to this site, and hope that someone else will be your punching bag for your private frustrations.
I'm sorry I have time to detail everything I know about the quotes and the quoted. But Einstein was known for his pictorial language, and for him, God is embodied in the beauty of nature and not in any higher reality (he expressed that he believes in Spinoza's God who is actually a God who does not interfere and in certain ways is not needed except for mental need).
The biggest evidence - he ordered his body to be burned. Today you and your representatives on earth do not respect the free will of Israeli citizens to cremate their bodies.
https://www.hayadan.org.il/burning-the-club-2308075/
And as for the article about Einstein. It is not mine, but was transferred to me with the permission of Allied Scientific Press, of which I do not have a single share.
Grace
By the way, the free advertisement for the wisdom of hair removal is not sure that it will work well.
Whoever reads the rest of your words will be careful to keep his feet out of the place from now on.
Free advertising can always be useful 🙂
Grace
Your wisdom is as long as your beard and mustache or you have already removed them.
Your preoccupation with hair betrays the wisdom of the books in your head (you must have read all the writings of the books of the quoted or have you learned to use copy/paste, a high IQ is required for this).
Your wicked tongue recommends how good Shabbat is. Believers in science and worship idols with you.
Dear Higgs,
Very low level.
You too, like Michael, turn a philosophical debate into a personal one?
You don't get it either?
And for your information:
I work at Galit Cosmetics 03-9494260, my sister - the owner of the company (and the wife of the anti-religionist I mentioned earlier) is very satisfied with my work, but at the time, what to do, there are not too many phones.
If you want laser hair removal or permanent makeup (maybe it will help your social life) you are welcome to call
Avi:
In my opinion, everyone already understands what this grace is and it's time to exempt us from punishment.
She doesn't say anything - only lies, slanders and slanders.
The point is that the source of the lie is already dry and she repeats the same lies so that it has ceased to interest even the psychologists and anthropologists among us.
Dear Michael,
Relative to someone who keeps claiming he doesn't read my comments, you respond to them quite a lot.
What happened from whom, do I manage to annoy you? Touching sensitive points? Besides getting down on me, you are not able to rise to my level and answer logically?
Must make everything personal because apart from this site you have no interest in life?
Grace
He was brought up with a broken skin and hair.
You know how to cast faults and are quick to point out the embarrassment of others, but there is no problem in doing this during your working hours when you are paid for them. And if you work in the public service, that means we pay you to "have fun".
The level of your hypocrisy does not fall below the level of your ignorance arising from your psychological hysteria and emotional confusion. I guess you don't want to advertise in which office you work. But on the other hand, my father surely knows how to locate it according to the IP. It is interesting if the owner of the office is comfortable knowing about your actions during working hours.
Dear Yehuda,
All means sanctify the goal - my father decided to go on a crusade against people who do not follow his path.
After all, the whole article above is also one big nonsense.
Even if there is a source of truth, I have no doubt that it is completely out of context.
in one word:
Propaganda!
Grace:
I no longer read your nonsense and lies - I only look at the first line - recognize the speaker and the subject of her current lie and move on.
I don't believe in lying about your office partners because there aren't that many stupid people in the whole country.
Regarding the opening of the next comment in the text "People a little smarter than me said..." - I guess you can quote anyone because everyone I know is smarter than you.
People a little smarter than us said:
"Let's remember that the Torah is actually still ahead of science in an important and significant figure. After all, science has only now discovered that the universe was created from nothing, but is unable to say what caused its creation from nothing"
Prof. Paul Steinhart
"The moment of creation remains unexplained"
Prof. Alan Gott
"Creation is outside the scope of the laws of physics known to us"
Prof. Stephen Hawking
"The existence of human consciousness proves the existence of the supreme consciousness, the divine consciousness"
Gustav Theodor Fechner, founder of psychophysics
"When the scientist deals little by little and gradually, through innumerable paths, in the analysis of animals and plants and the fundamental phenomena of heat, light, magnetism, electricity, chemistry, mechanics, geology, the study of light lines and astronomy, he gradually comes to the realization that there is in all creation One power, without beginning and without purpose, which was before every created thing, and which will be after all things. He is the source and source of all that exists, beyond all concept."
Prof. Vladimir Havkin
"The biologists determined that life creates more and more delicate and sophisticated forms. And this process is incomprehensible without the belief in the existence of a higher global insight, which directs creation with wisdom and purpose"
Prof. M. Zola
"I believe that there is an essential mystery in my personal existence, which goes beyond the biological explanation of my mouth and brain developments. Surely this belief corresponds to the religious concept of the soul and its creation by the hands of God"
Sir John Hickles
"It is no coincidence that the great thinkers of all generations had deep religious feelings. Science deepens the moral values of life, because every advance in knowledge brings us face to face with the mystery of our existence.
Prof. Max Planck
"An honest person, equipped with all the scientific knowledge available today, would only be able to determine that the origin of life is visible, in a certain sense a convention. There are so many conditions that must be met in order for life to be created, that there is no escape from this and scientific proof that the world was created by a spiritual creator with powers that activates the entire world."
Prof. Francis Crick
"When we survey the world and marvel at the sight of Hoda and the permanent order in it, we come to recognize a higher power, and a cosmic goal that surpasses anything that our limited intellect can achieve.... Belief in a Supreme Creator is as necessary now as it was at any time in the past. To at least one astronomer, the heavens tell God's glory and the works of his hands tell the heavens...
Prof. Samrat
"The more I learned, the more difficult questions against the possibility that the world was created by chance increased in my heart. When you look at even a single leaf on a tree, and see what it is capable of doing, compared to the backward way in which people work in the most sophisticated laboratories in the world, it becomes clear to you that it is simply impossible to believe that our world was created by chance. A scientist who wants to imitate the action of a normal leaf, or a living cell, and create a simple natural substance, needs tons of raw materials, a huge work of dozens of steps and great talent, while the leaf, or cell, does this with absolute efficiency from a zero amount of material."
Prof. Doron Orbach
And Avi Blizovsky - a gift for you:
From the words of the late Albert Einstein
"One must know that even what cannot be achieved by us, really exists, and reveals itself in the supreme wisdom and the highest beauty that our meager means are able to absorb only in the most primitive forms, this knowledge, this feeling, is at the center of true religiosity"
"It is highly doubtful if a man of profound science will be found who does not have a miraculous religiosity among his virtues. Religiosity - Stupidity marvels at the harmony in the order of Genesis, which reveals such intelligence, all wisdom and understanding that in the thought of man and his counsel are not as fish but a dull flickering that is null and void. The world has a creator. And I don't understand at all how such a worthless human being can even understand anything about the Creator's world!"
"I don't believe that God is playing dice with the world."
Want more?
there are many….
You're exaggerating, Chen.
Do you think my father is quoting lies there?
good evening
Sabdarmish Yehuda
And my father - I went to the link you added, oh oh very funny.
Maybe you don't have a link to a slightly more objective site that you don't manage?
The truth is that all of you have made my friends in the office, in the last two days which were quite boring (the holiday, not much work) - and we consist of a traditionalist like me, a staunch secularist, a religious woman who wears a headscarf, an Arab Christian from Jaffa, a lovable man who lives with his husband (or, in the terminology, his partner) , comes from South America, Zionist and extreme right-wing, and more... and we all get along great and it's interesting to us together, mainly because of the diversity and open-mindedness of all of us, both to listen to each other and to make up our minds about each other.
But enough, seriously now, both you and Lisovsky, do us all a favor, go to the videomat and bring back the movie you live in.
The racketeers, as you call them, do not do different things from what you do here, the racketeers (returning the question) like you.
Get out of the primitive and fixed mind.
Just as the person who wrote this article has the right to write nonsense, the right of those who are called in your opinion the Mahbatites to speak to anyone who wants to hear, just as the latter have the right to hear.
And dear Mr. Lizovsky, I would ask you to return Michael's answer to that, my dear colleague, that my answer did do something in his heart, and as we mediated amicably during the lunch break following the article, he did promise me, in writing, in the website forum, that he would read the book and retract his prejudices.
The line about him being married was an inside joke, in our office when someone particularly grumpy says he didn't get a lot of time, he added it to sting me following Michael the Second, because unlike me, he wasted time and read everyone's comments, and I'm just the Recently, he knew that Michael II was married, and I didn't notice at all.
And honestly, this forum is so full of hate, you are all such sad and bitter people.
What made you like this?
Live and let live
Grace:
Following my father's words, I want to tell you that you don't really upset me because you are simply showing the general public what a high percentage of the Makhbatim are simply liars.
By the way - what did you watch?
After all, if my father hadn't gotten over it - I would have gotten over it and your pubic hair would have been exposed for all to see anyway (as indeed it was exposed).
That's why I'm already letting you know that I'd be happy if you let your exhibitionism run wild and keep lying and keep doing it with the same stupidity so that everyone can see what's going on here.
Grace:
I apologize for stopping to read your retarded response after a few lines.
Guessing that I am single, etc. is the same in value as guessing that there is a God and that he commanded us the religion.
it's all nonsense.
By the way - my wife - Michal, and my three children - Irit, Amir and Ofer, ask to send you recovery wishes.
Grace
And don't forget after all the destruction and mess to wish a happy holiday and many blessings
Grace
Using personal insults brings you and your like back to the dark world of the idols you were there as you testify yourself never got out of there apparently. Judaism is currently just a passing episode to the kind of emotional addiction to prey that you suffer from.
It is for a drug substitute at best for the emotional mess that brought you on the path of searching for the real thrill and the ultimate ecstasy.
This is idolatry that paints everything in the same colors without distinguishing the details without paying attention to the facts. If you find greater excitement in the future, leave everything for your current situation.
Chen, when the real Michael comes back he will be very angry at the trick you did and I got on him - that you answered in his name as if he were repentant.
Lying is not exactly a good way to convince people. Nor the repeated lies about Einstein's alleged conversion.
That's why I deleted the false comment.
Please read what Einstein really thought.
https://www.hayadan.org.il/askeinstein-010900/
Baruch Jacob, my dear brother,
Don't get excited about Michael, in my opinion he's a bachelor who hasn't gotten a long time,
I feel sorry for people like him (usually left-wing souls) who have all the tolerance in the world for Muslims, gays, lesbians, idolaters, Buddhists, Christians, and all this wonderful abundance of people that God created, but at the same time they have hatred Atomic for Jews who follow Judaism - only they have no tolerance left, for the simple reason that deep inside a spark of their soul knows this is the truth, they are afraid to connect and become anti.
What to do, the best defense is the attack.
Dear and poor Michael,
First of all, I'm you, not you.
And Baruch Yaakov did not become schizophrenic, I am a completely independent person.
I grew up in a completely heretical home, educated parents who encouraged us to study and follow logic.
And so I did, therefore I could not ignore that everything around me screams that there is a creation behind everything.
After researching the subject deeply, for 7 years in the USA, and not only in the Jewish religion, I went very deeply into Islam, Christianity, and Eastern teachings and I found the truth at home, in Judaism.
Today I am traditional and married, I still live happily with my family and secular friends and respect the path they chose, but enjoy the beauty of keeping Shabbat, keeping kosher, the purity of the family and all the wonderful things in our Torah, and many of our friends follow our path, not because we obeyed them or did ablutions brain, or by hypnosis, etc.
Simply because they stayed with us enough times and holidays and fell in love with the way we chose.
Our life has only improved since we chose this way of life.
There is a Nobel Prize winner for science (unfortunately I don't remember his name, but if it is so relevant to you I can check) who said: "Believing in evolution is like believing that a tornado in a junkyard will cause the formation of a Boeing 747."
Also, Albert Einstein in his old age began to observe Shabbat and kosher, after in-depth research he came to the conclusion that it cannot be that the world was created without a creator.
He didn't have time, poor thing, to finish his latest theory, the theory of everything, which proves without a shadow of a doubt that there is a creator - not long ago there was a program on Channel 8.
Even Galileo and many of the great scientists of our generations recognized the Creator of the world - so who are we to contradict them?
A good old friend of mine, a Muslim, his name is Ali Abbas, told me once that he asked his father - a devout religious man, why he is so sure that the creator of the world exists, his father asked "If you fall into a pit so deep that no one can hear you calling for help, then who will you turn to to help you?"
"To Allah" replied Ali,
"This is your proof" answered his wise father.
So happy holiday and happy holidays my friend, don't take everything so hard, lie on the grass look at the sky and enjoy the beauty of the world that God created especially for you.
And believe me, even if you don't believe in him, he is different, believes in you and loves you very much.
Michael I repeat my apologies that I have already detailed elsewhere. You are not a communist or anything else bad. enough. White flag.
blessed:
you made me laugh
The whole argument here started with you bursting with your nonsense into a serious discussion without being addressed.
Michael the Communist, did anyone contact you?
Baruch Yaakov Abd Hashem:
seriously!
I saw that in addition to all your lies, the forecast for two people?
After all, you cannot pretend to be a man because there are minimum threshold requirements for those who want to be defined as a man!
And you present yourself as someone who can whiten my face!
Know that there is no way to whitewash the face of a person who is telling the truth (you should try it once - it might be a liberating experience!).
You can blaspheme him and you do it with great vigor but it does not whiten his face but only the face of the blasphemer.
Ho:
you rattled
If this is what he gets after the tests, then he's just an idiot, but I tend to believe that he's not such an idiot, but rather that he's a liar, like all the rabbis.
This connection to the roots, which you speak of, is nothing but a way to become a plant - mentally.
Keep eating junk.
Chen, Ish Tov,
May they listen to you. According to the prevailing spirit here, this site should be called "Informative".
Greetings to all dethophobes,
Where does this fear of Rabbi Zamir Cohen and the society that choose to connect to the roots come from?
Repenting is not like contracting AIDS, there is nothing to fear, it is not an epidemic.
Simply people with some depth who researched and came to different conclusions than you came to.
Don't be afraid, the same people just like you, sleep, get up, pee, brush your teeth, eat, go to work, go out to hang out, make love, laugh, cry, get angry, love, hate, and live life just like you.
Rabbi Zamir Cohen - his name goes before him, he checks the facts thoroughly before he presents them, tries to be as objective as possible, and if you read it again in reverse, or listen to one of his lectures, you will mediate because he also presents contradictions in the facts, the other side, and when he is not sure about something Certain - he is not afraid to say.
In short, it presents things as they are - in contrast to the article above which is completely yellow propaganda full of hatred for a very beautiful thing.
Mi - Kal: Fortunately for you, I was asked by a friend to leave this forum and I don't want to whitewash your face either. Therefore I will not answer you to the substance of the matter, but I will invite you to add and discuss all these matters, when you spend Shabbat with me and my family. what are you saying? After all, we are brotherly people, we are all Jews.
What a beauty:
Of course, I meant to write "the journey of blasphemy" and not "the load of blasphemy", but since I saw that "load" fell apart for me, I tried to think if the sentence would also have meaning that way.
The conclusion is that what came out is not so bad because "cargo" is also longing, hope or silver.
The problem is that it is too optimistic because I do not believe that the purpose of blasphemy has dropped from Baruch's agenda. Only the current journey might end and he is now busy stockpiling poison for the next journey.
blessed:
It's a fitting chord to end your rants.
Well done.
Unlike you - I take responsibility for my words and when I talk about myself I don't say "we" because I don't represent anyone and I don't want to depend on a lie just because many tell it.
But leave it - you're not beginning to understand what I'm telling you!
Michael - that's what's scary about you, that you see your personal nano-microscopic "conscience" as seeing everything. You and only you will decide what is good and what is bad. You know best of all. You will decide whether to conduct experiments on people or "just" use the results. You know exactly who wrote the "stale book" that billions of people believe. you and you and you You are everything in your world Michael. And yet - your world is as narrow as an ant's world. I'm tired of you, frustrated communist. Continue to spite and blaspheme and condescend and brag. My life, I would like to be a fly on the wall when you reach the next world and prove there that your whole life was a lie of vanity and conceit. Just to see the look on your amazed face. communist.
blessed:
I don't need a spiritual guide and a spiritual guide won't be able to help you even if he tries.
Although you did not benefit from the fact that I am not willing to conduct experiments on you (because you wanted to prove exactly the opposite) but you are lying because actually why not? After all, your whole life is based on a lie.
My red lines go where my conscience tells me they should.
Yours are determined by some stale book written based on the knowledge, morals (or interests) of some liar from thousands of years ago.
In places where it is not possible to derive from the twisted morals of that bransh, I even put in threads of interpretations - you simply do not have any morals - unnatural and not dictated - you only have interests and then you lie outright and are proud of it
Michael - Thank you! It is good for me to know that you will not experiment on me. However, I'm convinced that you have no problem sticking electrodes into the brains of poor monkeys. It's strange, because according to you, the monkey is actually a descendant of a monkey, an evolutionary product of it. So what's the difference?! Why is my life better than his? I'm just a barbaric Haredi barking, right? Why don't you use me to gather your knowledge?
You are a confused man with no moral compass. You are not committed to any opinion until the end. You draw your conscientious boundaries however you like, without any consistency, just according to personal whims. In fact - moral dilemmas are not really your field. You are comfortable with a world view of black and white and everything is so clear to you. The truth - there is an idol in your world - a false idol: and it is you yourself, Michael. You believe in your divinity. You think you know better than anyone what is right and what is good. There is no God but you, Michael, and you are his only prophet.
What tells you, poor man, you urgently need a spiritual guide. Hurry up and make yourself a rabbi before it's too late and you drown in your self-love, or you start injecting all kinds of things into the helpless to see what will happen.
blessed:
Ok. I continue to reveal.
Of course, by the way, your false accusations against me are also exposed (which are the whole topic of the discussion, since you opened it with stupid false accusations in the first place).
So the answers to your questions are, of course (but only for sensible people - don't go because otherwise you wouldn't ask) as follows:
1. No - I am not ready to do such experiments myself.
2. No. Although you really are a dark type (for whom a medieval type is a compliment), I would not conduct such an experiment on you either - not even to save the next Einstein.
So that's it, Baruch (in a dream - remember?) I poured what was on my heart and I poured it on your head.
Go on Michael, please go on. I'm so glad you revealed what you're willing to do with the results of the Nazi regime's experiments on humans. Tell me Michael, maybe to save a life, not of a barbarian like me of course, but of someone you decide deserves to live, are you willing to conduct such experiments yourself? Think - maybe you want to do an experiment on me, a dark religious type from the Middle Ages, so that you can save the next Einstein? Well, Michael, please pour out everything that is in your heart. Talk and talk because the people listen.
It's a shame, to feel that they will be met with seriousness and then the opposite pedagogy.
Yes, you are right about most things, but in my opinion you have gone too far in regards to what is written in the Torah or in relation to the ancient sages.
Certainly the knowledge of the sages in the days of the Gemara in particular was not anything at all in the field of science (they were not at all sure that the world is round on the contrary) on the other hand it was very clear that this was the case and hence the saying that wisdom among the Gentiles believe, Torah among the Gentiles do not believe.
In any case, all the different contradictions you gave could be due to distorted semantics, for example when Rashi interpreted the color light blue he explained it as the shade of green.
The rabbit the rabbit and the like can be on the same principle.
But in the bottom line, it's a shame for me to hear things that have value are served in the same way as Hell's Angels with a set of fanfare and a barbecue for all the sinners (I'm sure they also have a temp gauge to make sure they've reached the desired temperature, but between me and Binell, what is she...)
Eyal.
blessed:
You got confused.
Your words were nothing but a violent and senseless attack from the beginning and I only put a mirror in front of you.
By the way - regarding the question about results obtained by research done under the auspices of the Nazi regime - yes! I would definitely use them! Except, of course, in cases where the dying patient lying before you was you and the results of the study were the only medicine that could have saved you. In this case - despite my natural inclination to use existing knowledge to save people, I would respect your wish and let you die.
I assume that you would let anyone die in such a situation, whereas in the case I described you would regret (too late) your idiotic approach.
Here, out of the wise man of science suddenly erupted with the earth, rough and violent. Keep cursing me, smart and modern man. that everyone can see who you are and what you are exactly. Righteous - their work is done by others. And you still call us "primitive".
Jacob the Baruch (with a dreamer):
Thank you that what I said is true. Thanks!
I won't tell the Rebbe and God, you can't tell.
Baruch Jacob:
You are a liar whose whole purpose is to discredit the people involved in science.
Your words are not even worth a spit.
I suggest, therefore, that you go back to locking yourself in the ultra-Orthodox rooms and let the convoy pass because if you keep barking you might get run over (or heaven forbid - worse - be convinced that the truth is real).
Michael, another point - I understand that in your opinion, with all your grains and chickens, if in an immoral and inhumane experiment (let's say - an experiment by a dictatorial and murderous racist regime on humans), results are discovered that are useful for science - according to you, is this a grain found by a blind rooster? I mean, can we use these results, because science is above everything, even above morality?
Michael (by the way, doesn't it bother you, as a staunch atheist, that your name means "who is like God" and is also the name of an angel?) - you are twisting. Just like a slippery eel. Go ahead, thanks for making you excited about the International. that you miss father Stalin and mother the Soviet Union. Oh thanks, we won't tell anyone... It's not a crime to be a communist these days - it's just stupidity.
Baruch Jacob:
The lies will not help you.
Even a blind rooster sometimes finds a grain and when it comes to grains we don't dismiss them because of who found them.
Out of the multitude of human thoughts we choose the correct and logical thoughts.
That's why we also use the phrase "what is hateful to you, do not do to your friend" as a catchy definition for moral behavior even though we do not accept religion (which is really an opium for the masses).
Denials will not help you. I counted dozens of references on this site to the sayings of Marx, Engels and Lenin. Especially "religion is opium for the masses". You are communists. Your time has passed.
Baruch Yaakov:
The answer to your question is, of course, "no" but don't be shy to ask questions, even stupid ones like the one you asked, because if you don't ask how will you know?
Isaiah the Servant of God:
When someone claims to know in advance all the discoveries of the scientists, he should not complain about being shown that he does not even know the ones that have already been discovered.
When a certain community tries to impose the laws of its faith on a community that does not believe - it should not be surprised at the anger that arises in those who impose on them.
How much nonsense people are capable of talking.
Apart from that, I want to tell you that Lenin is no less alive than Rabbi Melovitz the Messiah.
Thank you that is true, thank you thank you!
Good night
Tell me, is it true that behind this website is actually an extreme group of frustrated communists and anarchists? Is it true that you miss your fallen idols, Marx and Lenin? Behind all the so-called rational talk, an extreme and nihilistic worldview actually hides, right? thank you thank you You are communists.
By the way - maybe you didn't know, but the "bitter water" test was also applied to men and not only to women.
Under the subheading "Embarrassing Mistakes" is presented a distorted, evil and biased description of the "bitter water" test from the Sota treatise. What does that mean, the "Stirmer" at the time was not ashamed to publish such descriptions. Those who want to know what things really mean, can read the following link -
http://www.biu.ac.il/JH/Parasha/naso/arc.html
It is not clear to me the source of the hatred that leads to presenting our ancient customs in a distorted and distorted way.
In any case, to the best of my knowledge, this custom has not been observed for thousands of years - since the destruction of the Second Temple.
Ronen,
I have no doubt that there are correct details in the Torah, side by side with incorrect or false details. Presenting a number of details that correspond to the historical evidence does not confirm the entire Torah (what is more, the historical evidence about the Israelites being slaves in Egypt, or about the Egyptian plagues, is flimsy at best).
Even the miracles you keep trying and presenting as a sign of God's existence are not reliable. Every religion had 'miracles' of one kind or another. In the case of Judaism, it turns out that even the fact that we stayed alive is interpreted as a 'miracle'. Christians also have a cool miracle - they number more than a billion people today, even though they started out as a tiny Jewish sect. Likewise with the Muslims. If you are going to compare miracles, theirs are bigger.
So, come on. I have already explained to you why such miracles are not evidence of the correctness of a particular religion. To the same extent, you can say to me, "Have you ever seen a people who knew how to speak Hebrew besides us? It is a miracle!"
In short, when everything can be interpreted as a convention, nothing is a miracle.
I went to Icon this weekend,
Roy.
Ronan:
Is the fact that you ignore what is written in the Book of Kings in Chapter XNUMX intentional?
If not - how does a Jew like you not know what is written there.
If so - why are you trying to deceive the public?
Read, for example, starting with response 295
It's enough to laugh, first of all there is historical evidence today about the Israelites being in Egypt, so that they were slaves there "and somehow" got out of there Zatz is already a historical fact, and the beatings the Egyptians suffered are supposedly recorded in their papyri, and it is known that this also happened somehow. Gf the fact that they inflicted Monotheism is known to the world and everyone has spread it and twisted it by force of arms, and despite this, Judaism opposes all religions, but no religion challenges the Doge on the Exodus.
The nun Dolly who told me... where is she today??? Who heard of her?? Have you ever seen a nation that is hundreds of times more interesting than its relative size? The only nation that was able to establish its position as a nation on this earth is us. It is impossible to measure the Jewish nation by the same historical standards as all the nations, since it was supposed to pass dozens of times from the world, but... wonder and wonder, look...
Ronen,
In every religion there are apparent miracles like these, which do not prove anything when you look at them closely. By the same reasoning, Muslim clerics can declare that Muhammad's prophecies were fulfilled following the jihad in Europe, and Christian clerics can declare that the prophecies of the Bible pointed to the coming of Jesus (and they do).
Ronan:
Is the fact that you ignore what is written in the Book of Kings in Chapter XNUMX intentional?
If not - how can a Khaudi like you not know what is written there.
If so - why are you trying to deceive the public?
Read, for example, starting with response 295
Michael
Nice words, but you have one mistake, your hope that your explanation is a final summary. You must understand that this is optimism that will not be realized, after all, Sabdarmish is built on exhaustion.
He and Hugin will go on and on and repeat their nonsense. That's how they are.
Have a good day and a happy holiday
Roy, well done...the priests spoke to the gods, so to speak...even the prophets alone...by the way, you are welcome to see if Israel's prophecies about the return of Zion, the number of Jews in the world, their distribution in exile and the flowering of the deserts are not accurate...leave it...we also heard things alone, right...but Where else is there a so-called show before the whole nation?? Who claimed such a thing? Where did they violate the prohibition not to write the Torah in Israel and yet they wrote..just so that they would never forget what they commanded?
Happy holiday
post Scriptum.
With your permission, I will quote to you the way in which Rabbi Yehuda Halevi's 'Sefer HaKozari' opens. It is told there about the king of the Khazars, who wanted to understand which religion he should choose. For this purpose he convened a scientist, a Christian, a Muslim and a Jew and asked each of them why he should convert his religion to theirs.
The scientist told him that there is no deity that interferes in the ways of the world, to which the king replied that this was not possible, because he felt a spirituality guiding him.
The Christian explained to the king about Jesus and the Holy Trinity, to which the king replied that his religion was too complicated. The Muslim explained to the king about the Prophet Muhammad, to which the king replied that his religion was not reliable enough.
Finally the king called the Jew, and asked him about his faith. And to this the friend (the Jewish sage) replied in this language:
"We believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who brought the children of Israel out of Egypt with signs and miracles and texts, and who prospered them in the desert, and who brought them the land of Canaan, after whom he crossed the sea and the Jordan with great miracles, and who sent Moses with his Torah, and then several thousand prophets after him, warning about his Torah, With a good reward for the guard, and a hard season for betraying her. And we believe everything that is written in the Torah, and the words are long."
Note the simple faith here. No attempts to justify and justice, no search from a mirror of place and first person or seventh person. The Jews simply believe, and that's how it is. This is the most beautiful and purest faith, and the king of the Khazars is convinced and accepts Judaism (this is a fictitious story, by the way, written as a parable by Rabbi Yehuda Halevi).
So come on, Ronen and Zvi, stop looking for candles and stop all the rummaging and comparisons you make. Believe in complete and simple faith, and that is really the whole beauty of faith.
and again, Happy holiday,
Roy.
Roy Cezana
Nice words, but you have one mistake, your hope that your explanation is a final summary. You must understand that this is optimism that will not be realized, after all, they are built on exhaustion.
They will go on and on and repeat their nonsense. That's how they are.
Have a good day and a happy holiday
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Ronen,
1. In every religion, things go according to a 'map', because in no religion do things line up exactly, and it is necessary to explain that there is always some kind of guiding direction and that everything will be fine in the end.
2. Yes, I understood that the Torah speaks in the present tense. But... so what? And I will give you another example: I am now reading in the Egyptian book of the dead, which describes the prayers (horribly numerous) to the various Egyptian gods. The prayers are clearly in the present tense and imperative - "Go away, island, impurity and impurity of Osiris! You cut off your head, and I performed in you all the things that the group of gods ordered regarding you, because of the massacre you committed..." And immediately after, "the Ta-Or gods shout for joy."
So if we use the same logic that you and Zvi have used until now, the Egyptian Book of the Dead is correct because it describes the prayer in the first person, and how the priest stands face to face with the various gods and speaks to them. Beyond that, he tells in the present tense and in the present tense the reaction of the gods! If he was not true, how is it possible that all the Egyptians believed in him? What, someone just wrote it one day and they accepted it without arguing?
No, of course not. It had to be true and its first recipients had to be present before the gods, because that is how it is described in the book. And otherwise, there is no way the Egyptians would have accepted him.
Perhaps this analogy will explain to you how weak your arguments are on this point (not to mention wrong, because the Torah of Israel is not close to being the only one that speaks in the present body). I suggest you also look up John Frum on Wikipedia, to understand how easy it is for mass religions to suddenly break out.
3. The New Testament consists of a series of letters written by the apostles, many times in the first person and in the present tense. These letters describe, among other things, a series of miracles that happened to the first Christians, which were sometimes no less great than those that happened to Jesus. So should I get that too?
4. Regarding the heroism of receiving the Torah, I must ask myself: Why did Moses hear the burning bush alone? Why did he hear God alone on top of a mountain with a storm?
And perhaps, in fact, it is better to ask differently: Why did all these prophets hear the words of God when they were alone (that is, they added fear that they were charlatans), while the prophetess at Delphi received her divine visions in front of all the people of the temple and Greece? It is clear that the heroism of the prophetess from Delphi is greater than that of Moses, Muhammad or Jesus! So by your logic, the Delphic prophetess represents the true deity.
Look, Ronen, with all due respect, you basically repeated what Zvi Epstein said up until now. I treat such claims as scientifically as possible, and try to compare our beautiful religion (and it is indeed such) to other religions, and find what makes it unique. So far I see that these arguments are valid only for those who do not know other religions in depth, nor are they willing to check what they are told. Miracles have happened to all nations, as have disasters. There were prophets in all religions. First person, and present person, and past person and nonsense person are in all the holy books, and in any case we have to ask whether we base our faith on that.
So in conclusion (and hopefully now it will be a final conclusion), Judaism is no different from other religions - and when you explain to me why not to believe in other religions, you also deny the validity of Judaism.
happy Sukkot holiday,
Roy.
You also need to understand Roy that according to Judaism things supposedly go according to a "map" meaning there is a guiding direction for things...
Roy, first of all thanks for the response. The explanations of evolution will make sense to those who assume...okay. You are not precise in your words regarding the Torah and I will not add, but will just sort out the points that the guys made here.
The Torah of Israel is the only one that addresses the body present, you have seen, and hence its first recipients indeed had to be present (I recommend re-reading Zvi Epstein).
Islam and Christianity tell about Jesus and Muhammad in the Hebrew language - we believe that those who saw did not write and those who wrote did not see and were not there. Also on the subject of keeping the mitzvot, of course the origin and basis of Christianity and Islam are known to everyone, and they started by keeping the mitzvot of Judaism - but soon abandoned it because they could not bear them. The phenomenon of the return to Zion mentioned by Epstein of a people who experienced 2000 years of exile, humiliation, holocaust, persecutions and decrees on their flesh back to their country is without a doubt an experimental phenomenon that has no equal in history. It is much more surprising when there is no unity around one territory and no language unity, but rather a mixture of different cultures (Lithuanians, Yemenis, Iranians, etc.). And by the way, see how few the Jews are in relation to the amount of trouble they stir up, but let's go... few why? Because they did not take crusades and missionaries, and spread the religion to the masses by force of arms as others did (we must not forget). And what in the world arouses so much attention in them??? And if it were possible to invent stories with so-called "witnesses" I return to the question that has already been asked... why did Muhammad hear things in the tunnel, and Jesus behind the wall and Buddha alone under the tree?? Where are the heroics?
Hello everyone,
I will try to respond to some of the claims made here, but I'm afraid this will be my last response on this current talkback, as any such response is time-consuming and my time is short these days. I will try to concentrate on two sides of the responses: Judaism and evolution. It is important to note that all the answers I give here are extremely limited in terms of space. If you really want to know and get real answers, a short search on the web can be a good start. There are also books such as 'The Third Chimpanzee' by Jared Diamond and 'Traces from the Past' by Carl Sagan that provide detailed and fascinating answers to many questions raised about evolution.
Let's start with Judaism, with Zvi Epstein,
Distinguished guests,
Your argument for the reliability of the Torah is that it is not possible for the people of Israel to accept customs, laws and books that did not exist before. But please see - this phenomenon occurred in many nations. The Muslims accepted many of the customs of the Jews, in addition to the prohibition of drinking wine, only from the words of Muhammad. The early Christians accepted the commandments of asceticism and sexual abstinence only from the words of the apostles. Different peoples all over the world obey the commandments and customs that impose a heavy burden on them, out of religion and nothing else. The Jewish people are no different in this from many other peoples. Is that why we say that, "No one would accept such heavy laws from an unknown camel trader - and from this it is clear that Islam is true!"
Certainly not, and this is where this argument was taken.
We will move to the Mount Sinai event, according to your request. It is possible that the Mount Sinai incident did happen. Maybe not. All I know is that a great storm of lightning and thunder is described there, and "Moses speaks and God answers with a voice." Sorry, I don't consider it a big miracle. It is very easy to scare people and make them believe in miracles and wonders. When I read this verse today, I imagine a crowd of people in the middle of the desert with a sudden thunderstorm, waiting for their leader to rise to the top of the mountain and appease the storm god. And then he also takes advantage of that and brings them a rule book so that they are more relaxed. so what?
Want a real public miracle? Tens of thousands of people watched Jesus walk on the Sea of Galilee. This is not a thunderstorm that can be interpreted one way or the other. This is a man walking on water, literally. So if you bring us 'the status of Mount Sinai' as proof of the correctness of the Torah, why is Jesus crossing the Sea of Galilee not proof of the correctness of Christianity?
You continue to bring big and small miracles that testify that the Torah of Israel is the correct Torah. How did we survive the Holocaust, you ask? And answer, thanks to God! How did we survive the pogroms? God! How did we survive the persecutions and decrees? God!
And I ask another question, Zvi. I ask: Why did God bring the Holocaust, the pogroms, the persecutions and the decrees upon us in the first place? And how is it possible that we accept all these, and then claim that thanks to the fact that we were saved from them, our Torah is correct?
And I will ask you another question: the Muslims conquered half of Europe by storm in the hundred years after the death of Muhammad. Does this indicate that their God is a true God? The Christians founded the largest religion in the world at that time. Is their god the real one? After all, he showed kindness to these nations and turned them into a great nation! To me it seems much better than being a persecuted and beaten nation, whose great peculiarity is that its people are killed everywhere, but few of them manage to survive and continue the religion. Is this your proof that the Torah is true? Woe to us if that is the case!
And further, to the well-worn argument that the Torah is true because it has been preserved for thousands of years without changing. As a comparison, there are also other books that have been preserved without significant change throughout history, such as the Christian New Testament, or even the Koran. If these have survived for even a thousand years without change, I do not see any miracle in the fact that the Torah has been preserved as it is without change, and certainly it is not a miracle when it comes to Jews who believe in an exact reproduction of the Torah from generation to generation. This indicates the faith of our ancestors, but not the correctness of the faith.
And to end this part, I will quote you - "And yet I will not grasp how this whole purposeful and mighty world, in which every detail is calculated, was created in this way by chance, and the space of the holes will not be filled by anything for me. ” and I will answer that this is precisely why the theory of evolution exists - to explain all the apparent purposefulness of the world.
and move on to the part about evolution,
Friends - you have asked many questions here, the answer to which is not simple. I will try to answer some of them as best I can, but I recommend that anyone who aspires to true knowledge seek it out on their own. The answers are there, but it is necessary to open your mind and read a little about these topics. Obviously, a one-paragraph answer is not enough to cover topics that entire scientific literature has been written about.
Question 1:
"How can it be claimed that the trend is always improvement?"
Answer:
The trend is not refinement, but the survival of the most adapted creature, side by side with 'drift' of random genes. What does this mean?
Suppose there is a large rabbit colony with rabbits of all colors in it. Now an epidemic attacks the rabbits, and kills almost all of them, except for two rabbits that manage to survive. One of these rabbits also has a gene that causes eye degeneration. This gene will now be present in a large proportion of the bunnies that will be born to the surviving pair of bunnies. Most days, those half-blind faces will establish their own new colonies and slowly this mutation will become an integral part of the population. And who knows? A few hundred more generations, and maybe they will move to live completely underground, like the rat.
Question 2:
"Why do the most primitive forms still exist?"
Answer:
Primitive forms are not necessarily less effective. In many cases and places they can be just as effective as their evolved descendants. Equally one might ask, "If Americans and Australians are the descendants of Europeans, why do Europeans still exist?"
Question 3:
"Why has no animal inherited a cow's four stomachs, for example?"
Answer:
The cow's rumination and food digestion mechanism exists in many other ruminants, which have evolved from one another, among other things.
Question 4:
"How is it possible that the bee and the flower were created at the same time, if their existence depends on each other?"
Answer:
The mistake here is in the view of immediate creation versus gradual development. There are many plants that can survive even without insects to spread their seeds. It is likely that at the beginning of the development of plants, there were no flowers that could attract insects. Once there were also insects (plant eaters and carnivores), the plant seeds could stick to their legs and bodies, and in this way the insects spread them. The plants that gained the greatest advantage were the ones that attracted the insects in the first place - perhaps they had large and colorful leaves, or a slightly sweet smell. They gained the survival advantage, and therefore their genes were passed on over those of other plants, which were colorless and odorless. Little by little, the symbiosis between the insects and the plants increased, with each additional mutation making sure that the plant would become more inviting to the insects, and that the most successful insects knew how to identify the right plants. This is how we reached the final situation today, where many plants depend on insects to spread their seeds.
Question 5:
"How is it possible that the world is becoming more ordered, if the second law of thermodynamics says that the world is always striving for disorder?"
Answer:
The second law of thermodynamics discusses a closed system, where there is indeed a constant aspiration for disorder. Such a system could be, for example, the entire universe, but the earth itself is far from a closed system. It receives energy all the time from the sun, asteroid strikes and cosmic radiation from space, and nuclear energy and heat from within the sphere itself. All this energy enables the creation of order, also through evolution and natural selection.
Question 6:
"How is it possible that the second law of thermodynamics exists, if evolution claims that everything changes?"
Answer:
The theory of evolution by natural selection is valid for physical objects such as molecules and living beings. It does not operate on laws of nature such as Newton's laws or the laws of thermodynamics.
I will give an example: according to one of the scenarios describing the beginning of the solar system, there were hundreds of planets orbiting the sun, according to Newton's laws and the theory of relativity. Many of those planets overlapped each other in their orbits, and at some point collided with each other and exploded, or strayed into the sun. In the end, only the stars we know today, whose orbits do not collide with each other, remained. It was actually a process of natural selection, during which all the stars whose orbits did not match the solar system were swept away. Natural selection in this case was applied to the stars, but not to the natural law describing their movement.
Question 7:
"But Professor Doron Orbach and Moshe Koa told me that there are problems with evolution!"
Answer:
And there are also answers. I do not know the aforementioned professors, but the certain claims you have raised so far have abundant answers. If you believe the two distinguished professors that there are problems with evolution, you can also believe the vast majority of professors in the world who work in the field of biology, who will tell you that evolution is an existing fact that is proven in laboratories every day.
Question 8:
"Darwin already claimed in his book that there are problems, for example with the development of the human eye!"
Answer:
Darwin lived more than a century ago. Since then, a lot of water has passed across the river, and the way in which the eye can gradually develop was discovered. There is also an excellent article on the subject in Wikipedia, which shows the different stages in the development of the eye as we have found them in creatures at different levels of evolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye
And just to explain the ear: yes, we also found the missing vertebrae in the development of great apes. Obviously not all of them, but we found quite a few such links.
Question 9:
"Mutations are only negative."
Answer:
Absolutely not, and this has been proven many times. Evolution of bacteria has been proven to give them the ability to break down plastic, for example. Evolution of lizards on a desert island has been proven, which even resulted in the creation of new organs in their digestive system. Evolution has been shown to have given bacteria resistance to antibiotics, and so on and so forth.
Question 10:
"Why didn't all the intermediate stages survive, for example between monkey and man?"
Answer:
The Earth has always been subject to mass extinctions, which consumed a large part of the animal and plant population on its surface. The species we see today constitute, according to some estimates, less than one percent of all the species that have ever lived on earth. Fortunately, we can find the skeletons and fossils of some of those creatures, and from this we learn that such creatures did exist in the past. In this way we learned about the intermediate stages between the monkey and man, between the dinosaurs and the birds and between the whales and the land mammals. This evidence is also supported and confirmed by other circumstantial evidence, such as that which exists in the genetic code of animals.
Question 11:
"How is such a complex brain created?"
Answer:
Although our brain is extremely complex, we can understand its basic functions. We can also see much simpler versions of it in ancient creatures that have survived to the present day, for example in worms, insects and reptiles. It is obvious to the eye how the brains of those creatures got better and better during evolution, added layers and layers and became more and more complex. When you look at the development gradually, and don't try to make the jump of 'there is a brain -> no brain', you find that the development of the brain and the nervous system looks like climbing a staircase, with each stage following the previous stage.
Question 12:
"How were male and female always created so that their reproductive organs would match?"
Answer:
There are many versions of 'male' and 'female'. Even in some bacteria and yeast there is a system that enables sexual reproduction, in which a 'male' exchanges genetic information with a 'female' - and this is in organisms whose entire body is made of one cell! As organisms became more complex, the principle of sexual reproduction was still preserved. It is worth noting, by the way, that with many primitive creatures it is not as simple as it is with humans, and the males and females change roles all the time - sometimes they are violated, and sometimes they are violated. From this point of view, we can say that we are a substantial improvement, despite all the difficulties and mishaps that we all encounter in realizing this improvement in our married life.
and in this good spirit,
Happy holiday to everyone on Hidan Island!
For Jonathan, every complex action developed from a non-complex action or a combination of them
Father, first of all, thank you for the detailed response, I did not intend to quote any repentant here, these are questions that really and truly do not sit well with me, and I believe that if a person looks a little at himself or at nature such questions can arise.
The matter of time, you can look at time the way you want and give "nature" billions upon billions of years of opportunities to reach the programming of evolution. But who ever confirmed that it was so? The question is, did whoever created the living cell, or the first atom have to wait billions of years? Really, I'm not coming against, Abi, I'm just interested. I didn't claim that organs didn't disappear (you can read again, I claimed that they weren't added and can't create themselves). Or how is the relatively constant balance between living and dead that allows the amount of oxygen etc. maintained? You know what I'm talking about... or in general, how can a mechanism like sweating and the entire temperature regulator of the body be attributed to Dodge for natural selection? or vomit? I think I get the point, just can't fathom how…dodge if the creature didn't vomit=wouldn't have survived, right?!? But what gives the "push" to such a complex operation? How does the body recognize?? And as for half bones that models are built on... I would appreciate a response, thanks
Jonathan Mintz
Jonathan. We can see that you are very good at quoting from the books of the Makhbatim. There are answers, unfortunately not as instant as Amnon Yitzchak would like.
The answer is that you don't understand the time scale, and your data is also wrong. Certainly new species with new features were created, both bacteria and slightly more complex and short-lived creatures and even - salmon fish.
Nature has billions upon billions upon billions of opportunities to do this every second, yet even it takes many years (a little in the case of viruses, a lot in the case of long-lived creatures). We do not have the possibility to reach the fraction of a percentage in the laboratory, therefore our chances are initially smaller because 99.999999999% of mutations or recessive traits are dangerous to carry them. And even then, you are usually not satisfied with the answer and will always look for flaws in it.
You are also wrong to think that evolution is always progress. What about fish that entered underground caves and lost their sight, the snake that lost its legs and more.
When you put so many limitations on the answer you expect, you will certainly never be satisfied.
Maybe if it's a forerunner? Or in "ancestors" there is no need for both sexes?
Samurai…
Just see all kinds of nuts and almonds for all their functions and the shells and the division inside you and you will understand...
Another question: How was the parallel development of the male and the female always so that their reproductive organs would always match? (where required)…
And in general…..male and female, from where?? Same ancestor?
I don't know, and I didn't claim there wasn't. The claim that need and necessity are what create organs is unacceptable. Formed from a brain so complex that all the researchers in the world, with all due respect to them, and the dedication they do do not manage to get to the study of a thousandth of this thing... formed from incarnations of incarnations of incarnations that begin with macroscopic cells, organisms without a brain is unthinkable unless Yes, really stubborn. Do you know what physics is? The elements of air, mass, weight, matter, atom, molecules? Do you really know the intricacies of this? Who is the ancestor of the atom? There were ready-made creatures that were created with an unperceived mind and intelligence and over the years it was the various conditions that caused the changes... When we understand the entire genetic code, in all its complexity, we will be able to explain exactly how and why... in the meantime let's continue to research and work and get off the tree a bit.
Jonathan..
So how are there fish that walk on land? D: Yes yes terrestrial fish!
hahahahaha who made the bun for example??? Who walks around all day with exactly "face to the sun"?? Is there another one like this?
Good evening, we can never claim that the "need" and "necessity" of a certain organ led to its creation, not even in mutations. Today only negative mutations can be seen. Studies conducted on short-lived (measured at 40000) generations have shown that there is nothing new under the sun...organs were damaged, dropped but not added. The person responsible for the enormous diversity is the "natural selector", the DNA pool is immeasurably huge and as mentioned here before, there are recessive traits. Another question...why didn't all the intermediate stages, for example between monkey and man survive?? It sounds like a stupid question, but the monkey survives perfectly... nor should it be claimed, for example, that all dried fruits or peanuts, pistachios, almonds and pecans belong to a group that evolved from one another... they differ in their functions, and are not similar at first glance
to me:
If what you say is true then his claim is even more stupid and as I explained it also applies to the Acropolis (otherwise why did they build it?).
Scrabble dressed.
The section on Dawkins' book was actually aimed at his uncle.
Mila - anyone who wants to can read it.
To all evolution deniers:
The gaps are mainly in your knowledge.
Evolution is proven beyond any reasonable doubt and we use the knowledge about it for our needs and...yes! Also for your needs - even though you don't acknowledge its existence, every day.
So please continue living in your dark world and leave us alone.
If you still want to know something about the contradictions between religion and science, you are welcome to read Dawkins' book "Is there a God?" Or learn English and read many other books.
Doo doo:
The article talks about the lies of the propagandists of the religion and the lies written in the holy books.
I don't like being lied to. what about you?
These lies are for the most part in areas that science deals with and has already provided us with the correct answers so why do you think there is no conflict?
When someone lies - the world becomes better if the lie is exposed.
Of course, beyond that, various commandments of the religion make our lives intolerable (see the entry "Agunot", for example, but this is only one example of many).
In other words - religion went to war against people and makes their lives bitter. There are those who are stupid enough to accept this trouble and there are those who know how to think and therefore are not ready for it.
Read Yaron Yedan's book - "Religion rose against its creators" to learn more about this war.
To Rami and Avraham.
Evolution stopped in man for a simple reason, today every person theoretically can reproduce with any person (of the opposite sex, of course) from anywhere in the world, because you can get anywhere in less than a day, therefore the most important element in natural selection - isolation - no longer exists.
In addition, large changes penetrate quickly precisely in small groups in a process called genetic drift. If the group was lucky and it suddenly spawned and multiplied and became a large group, it would seem as if a change had occurred in a short time in the entire human race.
Today the smallest group is 7 billion people (of course there are isolated groups that impose isolation socially).
Indeed, the Germans gave a distorted interpretation of evolution, there are many distorted interpretations of everything, so what, is this supposed to affect the source? The fact that Darwin didn't know everything shouldn't mean anything either. In science, unlike in religion, there are no prophets, and anyone can ride on the shoulders of giants and see further, instead of hiding behind them as the believers of different religions do (and I am not discriminating).
to Odin No one is expelling you, they simply ask you to respect the stage and wait patiently until we have a forum, in order to continue discussions without clouding the reactions to the specific articles.
You are not connected to evolution at all anymore.
I have never come across a group of people who think so high and as low as possible.
Evolution continues with your tools but from a completely different place and you are not at the right station at all.
My father, as far as I'm concerned, block - close your heart - close the hatch - seal everything.
And Yehuda - all the best to you and the company - hello!
Evolution is extremely partial and follows changes in climatic conditions, etc., it cannot be treated as an abstract concept and of course not to claim that the world operates by chance...
This is criminal propaganda...say that you don't know who created it, that the Bible is a book of legends of the land of Oz...that no one has anything to do with the Creator!!
But deny its existence??? Absolutely impossible!! Nature does not create itself... the DNA pool is so vast and there is what is called a "natural selector" just as there are recessive traits that pass on to one generation and are revealed in the next generation, and over the years the result is known.
It's all demagoguery...I've already seen that they uncovered an "ancestral type of man" in fossils...they barely found a jaw and half a bone and built a model on it that deceives everyone.
Correcting an error, the two professors from Bar Ilan University
God, why did evolution stop in man?
The Germans also mobilized the prestige of science to back up their so-called "scientific" ideas towards the Jews, and there was no shortage of museums that created an image and an image for the Jews that deceived all of enlightened Europe like children... and I see no problem at all in continuing the trend of evolution in man...
If I think that black is inferior, I don't have to wait "billions of years" for it to become extinct, I will exterminate it in a flash... like the Jews - whether you call it the "strong" or the "adapted" - they were not neither strong nor adapted.
I will explain to you how it works...theories that receive support from the overall science, sound more prestigious to people and they trust them blindly and take them as facts.
I took my words from Professor Doron Orbach, who is the head of the physics and chemistry department at Ben Gurion University and has a tshuva, indeed... and Professor Moshe Koe, who is also a physicist, a religious man and the president of Ben Gurion.
I don't think that when you use the beautiful and lofty words it is more correct than them, for now they are the ones who hold the title of professor, which someone like you usually takes a lot from.
Continue to deny that there are gaps, lie to yourself... Already Darwin in his book The Origin of Species describes some things that eluded him, such as the development of the two species from the same ancestor, the human eye, etc.
I'm not sure that you yourself are aware of the data processing process and know how it works... but a few exploded words in Latin with pictures that stimulate the imagination impress you so much.
I recommend that you approach more the field of physics and recognize yourself in a vast creator.
To the little Hasid Yishai
There is no gap in evolution, and there is progress in understanding citrus
Evolution will not be abandoned
The second law of thermodynamics does not rule out the possibility that parts of the universe will move towards order at the expense of other parts. An example, which you may not understand, is the refrigerator, its freezer compartment is cold but in the heat it heats up, therefore increasing the disorder.
Law is a dynamic thing and laws change and are replaced. Only religious laws stopped changing two thousand years ago, leaving many deeply behind.
Even the laws of stupidity and ignorance are changed and perfected in that "experts" take bits of information and play it smart. For example, most of the converts do not know what entropy and thermodynamics are, but when the rabbis use the explosive words like the second law of thermodynamics, it sounds gutta, gutta!
In short, we took care of your food for thought when we were small, now we are free from a horrendous lack of knowledge as shown in your response.
Mr. Little follower, I suggest you become a big follower - of evolution, of science, of yourself!
Happy New Year Hasidic
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Gentlemen, I am not a great follower but I know that evolution is flawed and there is a very large gap between it and proven science, although it is a popular method that science adopts today and may be abandoned in a few years.
The main problem is the second law of thermodynamics which says that the world constantly strives for disorder and chaos. is that so? The world seems very ordered to me.
Second, the very existence of the word "law" does not fit here correctly, since law is a fixed and not dynamic thing, it does not change... and if according to the theory everything moves and moves randomly (the opposite of fixed). So why don't the laws change?? A law is a law, someone made it, right?
And of course this is not the only difference.
Submitted as a material for thought
Why did you start such a conflict between science and Torah?
A baseless conflict, because this and this answer different questions and do not deal with the same field, and there is no apparent contradiction between them.
At least as far as I know, there is no scientific fact that Judaism opposes in any way.
This is the Torah - those who want to go deeper, all the best, those who don't, don't have to...what and why is the conflict about? It's not Einstein vs. Newton, no relation
All in all, Tzvi meant in my opinion that the Torah should already be written and orders to build a temple and how it should be built, that's what he meant...and that the people did not encounter the Torah for the first time in the descriptive story.
He describes many times when the people left the ways of their God, etc... that's all
And let me tell you, Zvi:
How is it that you allow yourself to try to convince others using reasons that you yourself do not know?
How come you didn't stand up for the weak points in these reasons yourself and why didn't you really do what you pretended to do and go check the answer that you are now sending me to look for?!
deer:
Another thing:
I don't see what you mean to say regarding the need for God in the building of the Temple.
Do you think God was also involved in the construction of the Acropolis?
It may be, however, that God was needed to build the brazen sea in the temple because the instructions he gave in this regard simply cannot be carried out.
For some reason God thought, when he gave them, that pie equals 3
Yehuda:
How did you infer that I need this quote? After all, all my comments are drawn from there!
deer:
That's a joke!
You quote from the words of a rat who answered them what they expected to hear after (after!) they found the book.
You probably have no intention of having a serious discussion.
The point I raised is the central point in your arguments even if you repeat it in several different versions.
I know the phenomenon you represent by referring me to your rabbis.
I've encountered her too - you probably won't be surprised - many times.
I never received an answer and your rabbis are welcome - on my part - to answer here on the website.
You too can contact them and bring us their wisdom.
I don't intend to start looking for who you intend for me to go to, nor do I have any intention of bothering myself with him.
I use the available information and I don't start believing the truth just because someone tells me someone else knows the answer.
Of course Rabbi Zvi
"Under whom I have forsaken, and they mourn for other gods, for the sake of my anger, with all the work of their hands"
Apparently God was not new to Israel at that time, they simply abandoned it as happened countless times.
To Rabbi Michael and Rabbi Debi
At least you know what you are arguing about
Kings in chapter XNUMX
A Ben-eight years, Josiah reigned, and thirty-one years, reigned in Jerusalem; And his mother's name, Yida Bat-Adia Mevaket. XNUMX And he did what was right, in the eyes of Jehovah; And he went, in all the ways of David his father, and did not turn aside, Yemin and Shmuel. {f}
XNUMX And it was, in eighteen years, for the king, Josiah; The king sent Shefan ben Atzeliah ben Meshullam, the scribe, of the house of Jehovah, to say. XNUMX The high priest went up to his portion, and took the money that was brought to Jehovah's house, which the keepers of the gate had collected from the people. And it was given (and given), by the hand of those who do the work, those in charge, in the house (house) of Jehovah; And they will give him, to do the work that is in the house of Jehovah, to be strong, to inspect the house. And for the deaf, and for the white, and for the fenced; and to buy wood and quarry stone, to strengthen the house. XNUMX But he will not count with them, the money given in their hand: because in faith, they do. XNUMX And Hilkiah the high priest said, on the back of the book, the book of the Torah I found, in the house of Jehovah; And Chilia gave the book to the rabbit, and they read it. XNUMX And Shaphan the scribe came to the king, and sat the king down, speaking; And he said, Your servants will melt the silver that is found in the house, and it will be put into the hands of those who do the work, who are in charge of Jehovah's house. XNUMX And Shaphan the scribe said to the king, saying, A book has been given to me by Hilkiah the priest; And they called him a rabbit, before the king. XNUMX And it happened when the king heard the words of the book of the Torah; And he tore his clothes. XNUMX And the king sent out Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam son of Shaphan, and Akbor son of Micah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Isaiah the king's servant, to say. XNUMX Go, plead with Jehovah for me and for the people, and for all Judah, according to the words of the book found, this: For great is the wrath of Jehovah, which was kindled in us, against that our fathers did not hear about the words of this book, to do so - The writing is on us. Yad, and Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Hare, and Asiah, went to the prophetess Huldah, the wife of Shalom ben Tikva ben Harchas, the keeper of the clothes, and she was living in Irush Lem, in the Mishnah; And they spoke, to her. And she said to them, Thus says Jehovah, the God of Israel: Say to the man who sent you to me. XNUMX Thus said Jehovah, Behold, I am bringing evil upon this place and upon its inhabitants - all the words of the book, which the king of Judah read. XNUMX Under whom I have forsaken, and they lament to other gods, for the sake of my anger, in all the work of their hands; And my anger is kindled in this place, and will not be extinguished. XNUMX And to the king of Judah, who sent you to plead with Yahweh, say this to him: Thus says Yahweh, the God of Israel, the words you have heard. XNUMX Yaan, soften your heart and surrender before Jehovah, when you heard that I spoke about this place and about its inhabitants to be a curse and a curse, and you tore your clothes. , and wept before me; And I also heard, said Jehovah. Therefore I will gather you to your ancestors, and you will gather to your graves in peace, and your eyes will not see, in all the evil that I bring upon this place; And they returned the king, speaking.
Just a question? How will a temple stand without the Torah? After all, she is the one who details how to build it and what its essence is! After all, the Temple stood only when Israel reached a certain spiritual level and they probably already had knowledge of the entire Torah at that time... so it is possible that some book was rediscovered, or something that was lost, I don't know and will check.
But to claim that Bom Tarach, where they suddenly found the Torah and subjected themselves to it by one person?
ridiculous
Michael, I'm not ignoring anything, but I'm also not jumping to conclusions so quickly. I don't know everything and am that knowledgeable either, so I can find out - there are people who deal with it day and night and I have no doubt that there are sufficient answers. You, unlike me, will not check, because you are so sure. It is clear to you that it is impossible to understand everything in the Bible simply - that is, in the way it is written and therefore processed and analyzed.
It can also be said that you are ignoring by not referring to other things that I have raised in my comments since yesterday evening.
I ask you not to tease, I am no less intelligent than you because of my faith.
deer:
You are ignoring the things, so I will just come back and refer you to them.
I have no intention of becoming part of an endless loop of repeating the same things.
I explained to you that a transplanter or not a transplanter - Josiah had to convince the masses when all he had at his disposal was a book.
There was no one there who experienced the things himself and there was no one there who heard the things from those who saw them.
Only a book and the king's order. This. Enough already. nothing more. zero. nothing. is nothing!
I request you not to insult the intelligence of the readers of the site by repeating the same point again.
The transplanter had the task of persuading the masses to accept a set of mitzvahs and, among other things, unusual laws such as Shatanz, Klai'im, Arla, Red Cow, etc.
The transplanter had to convince all those hundreds of thousands of people in such a reliable way that some child would not suddenly stand up and say "the king is naked". He had to convince, as it were, a long history that their ancestors experienced in Egypt, a miraculous exodus, 40 years in the desert. They would make it difficult for him:
Where do you get these inventions from? We didn't hear anything about it from our ancestors, it is written that the Torah will never be forgotten - how come the whole world has already forgotten and only you remember?? And why would we accept a Torah that contradicts itself? (I am recalling what I wrote down earlier, regarding her appearance in "Present", you are welcome to read it again). How did the transplanter manage to disappear his name from national history? After all, it is secured with very clear names and details, as can be seen in the book "The Strong Hand" of the Rabbinate?
And in general, with Israel, hundreds of generations of abnormal people??? Only the last generation knows everything? Honestly now, what is your take on things? You're probably a good scientist, I'm not sure you've turned too much into the Torah.
Michael, I repeat my words, no nation will accept such a Torah that makes life difficult, but let it go.
lets see:
"Three times a year, whoever remembers you will see the face of the Lord your God in the place he chooses on the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Shavuot, the Feast of Sukkot, etc." (Deuteronomy XNUMX:XNUMX)
The peoples and gentiles who lived in our surroundings could immediately see that there are fixed dates on which all the people immigrate to Jerusalem, and of course take the women with them, the immigrants left behind them a desolate and empty land for at least a week. From the way of nature it should have been that at such a time, they would come to conquer the villages, after all the dates are known in advance.
"For I will inherit Gentiles from before you and I will expand your border and no one will covet your own land to see the face of the Lord your God three times a year."
Why would a human legislator need such unreasonable demands? How will he keep the promises throughout history? Let's calculate: the period of the First Temple 410 years and the Second Temple 420 years. Therefore, 830 years, 3 times a year on fixed dates. After all, sooner or later the "fraud" would have been discovered.
deer:
First of all, what happened to the "proof" by means of the argument that only an extremely great class like the Mount Sinai class could bring an entire people to accept the burden of Torah and Mitzvot?
Do you admit that this story (in which she did this only on the king's order - without all the nonsense that you are recruiting ancestral joints and who knows where else) refutes this claim?
If so - tell me why you used the above argument and whether, in your opinion, it indicates intellectual honesty.
And for the strange argument that there was no reason to invent such a story - tell me - according to that "logic" what people would invent a story about themselves like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion that presents themselves as people so stupid and weak that a nation whose entire size does not exceed two per mille of the world's population succeeded take over them?
Demagogy of the Expulsion.
Dear Michael,
First, the phenomenon of leaving the Torah is not a new thing among the people of Israel, this is a people who saw in their eyes the status of Mount Sinai, according to the scriptures and immediately after worshiped the golden statue.
I don't think that if the things weren't true there would be some reason to write them, because no nation would be proud of the fact that they were slaves, helpless and God set them free unless they experienced it firsthand. What's more, the sins of the leaders are described with great honesty, something that does not exist in other religions.
By the way, due to the iniquity of the people who went from the Holy to the Holy, and as a result of the exile and disturbances, they were forced to put the Torah in writing (which was forbidden to write), in six Mishna series compiled by Rabbi Yehuda the Hanasi. It is hard for me to believe that a people who have rebelled against God so many times will receive the rebuke of some rabbi and start practicing customs that make life difficult. Who is Josiah??? Who will rule the nation?? Why should the people accept his reproach after not believing the words of Moses until he even saw rebuke in his eyes!
By the way, where does a temple come from without the Torah?? I recommend turning around and going a little deeper, some also claim that we took from the Samaritans so to speak.
The very fact that the chain is secured with 40 names of "the ancients of the rumour" as described in the first chapter in the chapters of Avot shows that there is no room for a "transplanter", and who is he even to be heard in his voice? Nor do they accept any new prophet after the Torah was signed, that's it! closed!
By the way, Hogin the fly:
Thanks for calling us wasps.
deer:
You must understand that you are merely the thousandth round of a discussion that has already taken place here many times.
The argument of receiving the Torah at Mount Sinai is also false according to the Bible.
In the book of Kings XNUMX, chapter XNUMX, it is told how the people of Israel (it is not possible to tell from the scriptures whether it is for the first time or anew) the book of the Torah during the restoration work in the Temple.
Everyone was very surprised by what was written there, and Yeshua brought the people to change their ways accordingly.
This shows a few things.
One is that there is no proof that the Torah even existed before Josiah and it is possible that it was simply "planted" even by him, as a means of increasing his control over the people;
The second is that an unequivocal proof is given here that the source of belief in religious laws is not Mount Sinai but the book found in the Temple.
Of course it also shows how willing the reformers are to distort the way the facts are presented and use faulty logic to convince.
Gentlemen, I really appreciate your efforts, I wanted to say that I have no problem with what you believe. I responded as I did just to illustrate to you that this is A-M-W-N-E only, following another comment. Simply, it's a shame to try to drag everyone after you in slandering the Torah, I'm not sure that your achievement in it is high enough.
It was only important to me to correct the impression created that "reasonable logical faith" is following the so-called scientific details in the Torah, it can be reached in countless ways.
Dog: Was it possible to deceive the people of Israel?
An entire nation can instill false opinions in its children (that's why there are so many religions in the world), but an entire nation cannot instill a historical lie in its sons. An entire nation cannot decide one bright morning that it was with slaves in Egypt or went through the Holocaust. If this were possible we would not hear about Jesus who heard things from behind the mountain or about Muhammad who heard things in a tunnel or about Buddha who heard things under a tree - we would hear about Jesus who brought down the Torah from Sinai in front of all the people, Muhammad who came down from the sky in front of the whole world and gave the Torah, and Buddha who killed With a wink at all the Turkish people. But there are no such stories simply because such stories cannot be invented.
I don't want to divert people from the field of science here, I think it is very important, there is simply no need to try to wrap the whole world around your worldview.
It is clear that there is a tremendous "power" that created the universe... there is no explanation, for example, for sea creatures with electricity, since water is not insulated, and so for many, many things in nature, such as fruits, things that prove "foreseeing the future" so to speak.
Neither I, nor any person who is not stubborn and straight-thinking will be able to associate those wonders with "Mother Nature".
(I'm sorry for the stubbornness, I'm just one of those who love science, but I'm also a religious person, and I don't think there's a problem with it being broadcast in one bow, I'm saddened by the stigmas you give here)
Thanks, Zvi
Hugin,
You are welcome to leave at any time, if things are not to your liking.
deer,
I will try to respond to your response in full by the end of Shabbat. You raised many important points, both in terms of the Torah and Gemara and in terms of the theory of evolution, but I am happy to say that many of them have an answer.
Shabbat Shalom,
Roy.
Lezvi, one more thing.
Who is talking about a trend of improvement? This is also a misconception of evolution. For every living creature that improves, there are 10 that regress and lose traits that their ancestors had. The only problem with this process is that it has a lower limit (the simplest bacterium) but no upper limit, so there is an appearance of progress.
The easiest way for converts to attack some scientific doctrine is to describe it in terms that suit them (even if they are incorrect) and then attack the scarecrow in us.
Read here an article based on things written at the University of Berkeley that explain all the misconceptions of evolution.
https://www.hayadan.org.il/misconcets-about-evolution-130805/
And Zvi..? Don't forget according to local time.. towards the North Pole Day.. to recruit all the horners according to their type and their radiations.. the name of the code this time:: will be:: "Mary Christmas our Judah..":)
Hugin: On the horn of the deer.
21.12.2008
Lezvi, I must remind you that you have entered a hornet's nest and all kinds of mines and tins in the form of unclear progress...so just so you know...know how to get out in time...
It was an offer like I would have offered to my dear man.
And Yehuda? Happy New Year. If you happen to want a ride with a scheduled flight, then come on...we're taking off...
Hugin
deer
Evolution does not state that the fittest survives, it states that the adapted survives. The one who managed to adapt to the situation in the field survived. For example, the weak fish that clean whales, weak lice that live on mammals, and a small tsiva dog that is adapted to righteous women, and the like.
Happy New Year
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Forgive me for extending a little more, a few words about evolution which is based on the principle of the survival of the fittest. As we know, there are many cases of symbiosis in nature (cooperation), for example the Egyptian crocodile or fish for their share that clean the giant whale and feed on it, i.e. a chain. The question is why they didn't disappear - they are smaller and weaker than the Leviathan and are regularly in its vicinity.
Or how can it be claimed that the trend is always refinement, after all there are features that have not "passed" so to speak to more advanced creatures -> for example color vision in mammals, or a study on a fly for 10 years = 25,000 generations, although certain organs have disappeared but no new ones have been added and mutation goes in the direction Only negative, as you can see.
#Why do the most primitive forms still exist?
#Why didn't any animal "inherit" a cow's 4 stomachs, for example?
#Is it possible that the bee and the flower were "created" at the exact same time?? After all, the entire existence of the flower depends on bees and vice versa, and we ourselves have a great dependence on that as well.
Sorry if I drove you crazy, Roy, I don't really expect answers, these are just points to think about and there is an answer.
Shabbat Shalom
Hello Roy,
First I wanted to appreciate the long and detailed response and it is obvious that you are fluent in Hebrew 🙂
I wanted to respond to your words:
A believing Jew has no real need and his logical belief is not based on these scientific data, but they can be used as an additional layer, and it is clear that part of the wisdom belongs to the knowledge of sages, etc. in the sciences of their time - we do not claim otherwise, and there are also things that were indeed passed down only to them.
The claim that we took everything from the Greeks is similar to the claim that our Torah is some kind of mash-up of stories that were spread and taken from others. It must be understood that the Torah does not pretend to be a book of science but a book of laws and history of the people of Israel, and science seekers will not find the answers here. On the other hand, it can compete with modern science in one fell swoop and there is no shortage of evidence for this.
The Torah, apart from all the personal revelations and "stories" of various kinds, presents one huge show, in which G-d shows His face to all Israel - Mount Sinai.
The believing Jew understands that no nation would accept a Torah that interferes with the lives of wives, matrons, forbidden foods, agriculture (shamita-economic suicide), circumcision and the like.
The Torah is the only one that speaks in the present tense:
"You have seen that I spoke to you from heaven" (Exodus XNUMX:XNUMX).
"You have seen all that God has done before your eyes" (Deuteronomy XNUMX:XNUMX).
"You are all standing today." (Deuteronomy XNUMX:XNUMX)
"The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb: God did not make this covenant with our ancestors because we are the ones here today, we are all alive", "Inside, in the inside God spoke to you on the mountain out of the fire"
The first recipients of the Torah must be at the time when the Torah was written, otherwise they would not have received it.
Maybe they told the people that the Torah had forgotten them and now they found the books of their ancestors?
No. The Torah has always worked on the principle of devotion, and so the Torah also writes: "Only guard yourself and guard your soul very much, lest you forget the things which your eyes have seen, and lest they depart from your heart all the days of your life, and to tell them to your children and your children's children: the day you stood before the Lord your God in the holocaust." (Deuteronomy XNUMX).
God also promises in the Torah that His Torah will not be forgotten by their seed:
"And it came to pass that many evils and tribulations would beset him, and this song answered him forever: for he would not forget from the mouth of his seed" (Deuteronomy XNUMX:XNUMX). That is to say that it is not possible for an entire people to accept the Torah at a time later than the time when it is written that it was written because the people would not accept a Torah that contradicts itself since it says that it shall not be forgotten and it has already been forgotten? Where does it say that the book will pass through the entire nation as tradition and it didn't pass? A Torah that contains dozens of commandments that they never heard from their ancestors? And how the boys never heard from their parents about the events they will ask.
And this is just one example, but the phenomenon of miracles in the people of Israel is well known.
There were great empires in the world, Greeks, Romans, Babylonians, Persians, Egyptians, and also a small people from Ford, Muggle, who suffered inquisition, holocaust, pogroms and endless persecutions and decrees! The very fact that the people return from Yemen, Persia, Iran, Iraq, Lithuania, Morocco and Spain with the same customs and the same Torah in D-Y-V-K (for all those who claim that things have changed) is the everlasting proof of the origin of the Torah. Nor can the fact of the Kibbutz of the postcards and the blossoming of the wilderness in the Land of Israel against the nose and anger of the whole world be attributed to cases. (Not even how 150 Syrian tanks tried against little Avigdor Kahalani and one more tank).
Roy, apparently our worldviews are very different - I will never understand how this whole purposeful and mighty world in which every detail is calculated was created by chance and nothing will fill the space of holes as far as I'm concerned.
Let's agree on one thing - we are probably both people from A-D M-A-M-Y-N-Y-M,
All the best
Hello Zvi,
How did the sages who wrote the Gemara and the Zohar know about the division of the continents? This is an excellent question. The answer is that those good Jews were not fools, and many of them were interested in the sciences and philosophy that prevailed in the countries they lived in, and even engaged in them themselves, such as Rambam. As a result, many guesses about the ways of the world entered the Talmud and the Zohar, some successful and some wrong. It is important to remember that the Talmud contains the opinions of many sages, so it can also bring contradictory opinions.
Some of these news, for example:
1. The continents are splitting ("Tana said - one land literally took out the water and from it 7 countries were formed." What about the islands, by the way? Well, he probably forgot that). By the way, it is worth noting that according to another verse, the Zohar also claimed that the seven continents are inside the earth, and see Pardes Ramonim, Shear XNUMX, Shear Seder Amidatan, Chapter XNUMX: "It is agreed that seven lands are literally inside the earth, etc...."
2. A child comes to life on the 40th day in his mother's womb.
3. The earth is flat.
4. The earth is spherical.
5. Lice come from dirt and sweat, and they are not born from each other (Tract Shabbat XNUMX EB - "A louse is not a cow and a herd").
6. Mice and creepers can be created from the earth (Rashi, in the Mishnah Keko interpreted, and Z'l: "There is a kind of mouse that is not a cow and a rabbi but is created by itself from the earth, like garbage that spawns worms...").
7. The world is made up of four elements (Teacher of Perplexities, Part I, Chapter IV).
8. The sun revolves around the earth (Rambam, Basic Laws of the Torah, PG XNUMX).
Another proof that Sage Shabu knew a lot about the science around them can be found in Beli Nada XNUMX and Beli Bekurot XNUMX. In both of these sources it is told about rabbis who turned to doctors to clarify a medical problem, and according to their determination they changed the halacha accordingly.
So the answer to your question is that if enough statements are thrown around (and especially when some of them contradict each other), some of them must turn out to be true. Today there are many demagogues who try to take the words of the Sages and 'prove' that they are true, through specific sentences that they take and many times distort the meaning they had in those days. In the same breath they also dismiss verses that express a contrary opinion. And in short, those empty and fools form with their own hands the tradition of learning and logic accepted in Judaism.
As for your assertion that Jews did not travel the world, this is a gross error. Many Jews went on journeys individually or with their families - whether they were forced to because of postcards, whether they aspired to reach the longed-for Land of Israel, whether they were sailors and explorers. I suggest you delve into, among other things, the book 'The Discoverers' by Daniel Burstyn, as well as read the history of the Jews from Muhammad to Spinoza. You will find that in many cases the Jews wandered between European countries, and in a few cases (in Portugal, I think) there was even a Jewish explorer.
A final note about evolution:
Evolution is supported by many evidences, among others through fossils, evolution in the laboratory, evidence according to DNA and so on. Although there are holes in the theory, which originate from a complete lack of knowledge about the events of the past, they do not come close to refuting it in the face of the large and overwhelming amount of evidence that indicates its existence. At most, only semantic changes can occur in theory, which do not contradict the basic idea of evolution from creature to creature.
Microevolution is a misleading term used by creationists who try to deny evolution from a religious worldview. Evolution is evolution as it is, without semantic separation between the different species. To clarify the ridiculousness, the term 'microevolution' is used to describe the evolution of a Great Dane and a Chihuahua, claiming that they both belong to the same species. And for that, all that is left is to wish the female chihuahua that a giant Dane will never try to devour her. In practice, two species were created here (which cannot mate with each other in nature), from one ancient canine ancestor.
Shabbat Shalom,
Roy.
A small addition: for those who did not understand the importance of the luminaries. According to them we measure our time today, in the Bible and the explanation is that they did not exist before, there were different units of time, and God also has the ability to create whole things, not particles of particles, as it is said "in their stature and form"> until there is conclusive proof, we all It was one way or another, because the theory of evolution is full of holes. Although there is the concept of microevolution, which is evolution within the species, it can also be seen in humans living in different places, but it is only minimal and all individuals of the same species can mate with each other. When it is proven that the concept is broader and more comprehensive, we will take the theory more seriously. deer
Peace,
First, I wanted to clarify the parallel between the story of Genesis, which is actually the six days, and the age of the world accepted by science. It is clear to anyone who can create a living cell in all its complexity, or a human eye in all its parts, will not have to wait billions of years for things to develop.
According to Judaism, 6000 years is the origin of human culture and what preceded it are six days of creation "and there was evening and there was morning" and it is described that the dens were only created on the fourth day, hence these are other units of time and not at all familiar to us. I would expect people who consider themselves well versed in modern science to know that time is a relative thing as Albert Einstein discovered and to understand that the extreme age of the world is due solely to the S-E-R-E that everything developed slowly and dormant, therefore it is also A-M-V-N In every sense of the word, therefore there is no consensus on the age of the universe among scientists. Even claiming that both sexes (male and female) have a common ancestor doesn't sound too logical, but it's not important...
I would like to please get a reference to the words of the warning regarding the splitting of the continents, as Wagner discovered about 40 years ago, and also to the fact that appears in the Gemara that the child takes life on the 40th day in his mother's womb.
Along the way, I wanted to point out that Jews did not travel the world because they were engaged in the Torah day and night and were not imperialistic, even if the astronomical data they had was used for the benefit of the laws.
I would appreciate a response as soon as possible, Zvi.
Yael:
You will be surprised, but I am also in favor of preserving tradition.
Even on my wife's last birthday, I made a program together with my children based on the song "Soldier's Wife Who Will Find". I know the tradition and cherish it.
Like religion, tradition is man-made, but unlike religion - it allows itself to change here and there, so it is usually much more sane than religion.
What is important - is to remember that this is only a tradition - not some kind of divine commandment and certainly not one of "kill and not pass" or "kill and not pass".
The problem is that religion and like it the religious establishment and the religious sector in general, actually impose themselves on humanity, including those who are not interested in it.
Not forcing you to do anything. do what you want. . .
I also do not believe that God himself wrote everything and brought us to be saved. On the other hand, I do see value in preserving our tradition that has existed for so long. I don't think it would do me any good to end the dynasty. I don't think anything in my religion contradicts logic. It's just that it's a little more complicated than complicated and confused logic, all in order to keep the tradition and I'm perfectly fine with that. That's how Judaism is. But that's not the main thing, these are the details that somehow need to be reconciled with logic, let's say. There is some philosophy in Judaism beyond the external matters. Yes! Yes! There are also beautiful things.. really..!
Hugin:
I am right in the other sections as well.
Michael
Regarding D, you are right.
slipped me
Hugin:
A. Not everything is suitable to be called religion and especially not for rationality and reason.
It is just like saying that someone who is healthy is sick with the disease of health.
B. It's an accented A so the answer would be an accented A of mine.
third. I never said things that have no proof don't exist. On the other hand I do say that whoever claims they exist is a liar because the truth is that he doesn't know.
d. This sentence of yours is meaningless and even syntactically incorrect.
God. I have never made such a claim. Idiots have lives and even dogs, frogs and bacteria have lives.
and. I did not make such a claim either. On the contrary: I have often compared the delusional claims of all kinds of people to the claim that I made them up a second ago.
G. I did not claim such a thing either and in my opinion it is completely nonsense.
H. This is also not true. I have always claimed that I believe in the laws of logic. I also said that neither I nor anyone else had any choice in the matter.
ninth. I'm not anxious to lose any job I'm in. My only servitude is to reality and it cannot be lost even if you want to.
That's it, Hugin, things you see from here you don't see from there.
Michael, in the cat's smile from Alice in Wonderland.
Michael
Come and prove to yourself that you are a devout religious believer in religion: Well, what is your religion and its laws?
A. I believe in the religion of straight rationality.
B. Do not deviate from it neither forward nor backward nor to the sides.
C. Nothing exists if it does not have daily empirical scientific proof only.
D. Everything that says living things only for their bodies - do not exist at all.
E. There is no life outside of logically proven common sense.
And. We are not sure that we are alive - only the mind needs proof.
G. Since the feature of the brain has not yet been fully tested, it is not certain that it also exists.
H. I believe that I do not believe.
T. I am anxious to lose my servitude to nothing. My name is Michael, yours is a sworn atheist.
This is Michael, that's how it seems to laymen like me.
Hugin:
In Yehuda's smile..
Yael:
Why do you call secular extremism?
Are there any chastity watches that make sure people keep it?
What are its rules, in your opinion (because in order to be extreme in something - this something needs to be defined)?
What you call secular extremists do is simply point out the nonsense in the books you call holy books.
What is extreme about this?
On the other hand - what is not radical in believing this nonsense?
And I wish it was only about faith! After all, the religious (almost all of them - not just the ultra-orthodox!) come with different demands and especially strange ones for those who don't believe in this nonsense. Isn't that extreme?
For my part, you can believe that a rabbit rummages, but as soon as you try to convince someone that this nonsense was written by God who created the rabbit, don't be surprised if those who care about the truth disagree with your words.
You can believe that Shabbat violators and gays should be killed, but as soon as you try to do something about it - don't be surprised if sane people make sure you go to prison.
You can really believe that someone whose Torah is his art "kills himself in the tent of Torah" but don't be surprised that the people who die in his place in reality - both in military service and from the workload - will come to him with justified claims that he is a parasite.
I believe in God and my way of worshiping him is Judaism. I don't see any problem with that and I don't understand why everyone here makes such a big deal out of it.
In my opinion, there is ultra-Orthodox extremism and there is secular extremism, and the people who browse the site suffer a little from the latter.
my father
Personally, I'm also in favor of the wonders of the children's book "Aia Pluto". You see a lot of things in simplicity.
There is a fundamental difference between blind faith and informed faith and many perspectives in multiple areas.
It is clear to me of course that there are many stations of experience in life and I am certainly not in favor of blindness and slavery to any fixed concept. A man with a true heart and mind checks his views every day. I'm sorry that my path is hidden and unclear to certain parts, but it is absolutely clear to me that each and every one is at the levels of evolution that they are subject to and the possibility of further development called into their lives.
Do you ask your wife and child for a DNA test every day in order to verify their existence? It is likely that you will not abuse them to that extent.
So, anyone in his opinion will live and we will continue to examine the situation.
Odin, the answer is no, because if it were, we would call the site 'the believer' and not the scientist.
We have nothing against our culture but we have many things against the use of culture as a means of intimidation and a means of lying.
Searching for meaning in your text through skipping, for example, is roughly like the episode where Homer Simpson's mother wrote a newspaper article explaining her virginity, and he only had to read the first letter of each line in order to understand her message to him.
Hugin:
As usual, you attribute hidden meanings to facts that are completely absent.
The explanation for the survival of the Bible as a source of conflict throughout the generations can be found, for example, in the 47th response I gave in the following link:
https://www.hayadan.org.il/baylor-survey-finds-new-perspectives-on-us-religious-landscape-2109089/
Although the fact that the Bible causes incessant conflicts would not imply ciphers found in it in any case, but I repeat and refer you to the above just so that you understand.
By the way: what is a "hidden reason"?
It is a term that is not defined without saying from whom that hidden reason.
There are, therefore, reasons that are hidden from your eyes and visible to me.
In general, the hiding of things is often the result of the decision not to look for them but to believe grandmother's stories.
I hope with all my heart that your grandchildren will not believe grandma's stories.
Are there ciphers in your book???
Yes
It is the most secret document that passes like a burning torch from one to one generation to generation, stirring passions, and drawing you on. It reminds of values and forgets them... and so from generation to generation diggers dream sages and people of progress on the other hand in such a puzzling document.
But not just one side of it. And the other side disappears. And the other side itself would not have found the hawks if it weren't for the document in question—and for you, the torch that kept everyone in spite of all his treacherous vassals especially and despite his rebellious opponents who almost lost the image of the essence of everything precious and also You are the main thing.
It is so important that you think.
What is it all for? What is hidden in the issue? What is the great secret of the North in that document in question.
says something extreme:
Have you ever thought of burning anything you own?
what was that?
What happened as a result?
What is the inner feeling when this question is raised?
When, intentionally or unintentionally, you become an extremism that contradicts the principles of the infrastructure of the source of life.
Yael:
It is clear that faith should not be based on the scientific "revelations" of religion.
It is much less clear how one can continue to believe in her when it turns out that her reports on reality contradict reality and her moral laws contradict morality.
There is no reason to live with contradictions.
We need to get rid of superstitions and replace them with the conclusions of science.
The immoral laws should be abolished, the moral laws should be kept, moral laws should be added that we have learned since then, and continue to do so forever - as is the way of a democratic regime.
In short - we must free ourselves from the adoration of books written thousands of years ago and continue to develop on all levels.
This is called growing further.
Oops, it's not the ashes of a red cow, it's the name of God that was erased in water
I think Amnon is right, Zamir Cohen's book is really a bit forced and it should not be based on a religious person's belief because then it will be so easy to refute and break. It should be understood that the Jewish people is a people, even if it has here and there exceptions that are difficult to accept in the modern world, such as the non-acceptance of relationships between men or halachic rulings based on knowledge that is no longer relevant, all in all the Torah engraves on its banner morality, the sanctification of life and the way of the land. There is no such thing as everything being perfect. You have to learn to live with the contradictions and the things that get in the way. This is a plot that was given to us, so it should be nurtured and from it grow further.
http://www.biu.ac.il/JH/Parasha/naso/arc.html
Yael:
According to Rashi's interpretation, this is a plezigraph.
According to the laws of nature this is simply nonsense.
Avigdor:
We failed to tattoo the faith - not because our arguments are not correct but because your stubbornness is stronger than your logic.
You can continue to believe that the rabbit and the rabbit rummage, that lice are created from human sweat, that mice are created from mud and... yes... also that gays and Shabbat violators should be killed.
As long as you remain in faith and not in actions that hurt others - Zebashach.
As soon as you hurt others, I hope that the law will catch you (and that the law will be reasonable and not religious)
A perverted woman's belly swells... not farting...
It seems rather nice to me. In a patriarchal society like then, keep that there will be no betrayals. A deterrent is the water with the ashes of the red cow that the lady has to drink.. If she is righteous nothing will happen to her. It's a bit like an ancient polygraph.
Avigdor,
A man by his faith shall live. 28 years old, selfish, and I'm not trying to tattoo any belief, certainly not for thousands of years. My objection is to the religious converts and converts of all kinds, who oppose the first sentence in this paragraph.
I would like to add a verse from the Rambam - "Ignorant, he who has neither wisdom nor measures... like a land in which he will not sow any of the things, which is called a field of ignorance" (Pihams). Science, as Rambam also accepted in his time, is not an 'idol' for its worker but a way of thinking that leads to real results and the attainment of wisdom. The scientific method is not able to negate belief or the existence of God, but it adds wisdom about the ways of the material world. And therefore, let a person receive the measurements from the Torah, if he so desires, and let those who aspire to this draw wisdom from science.
for everyone
So much ink (metaphorically) just spilled.
Michael and Roy and my father and many like them tried for thousands of years to destroy the faith and did not succeed.
We just have to be fair and point out that faith as it is - cannot be proven.
I would like to add just one more sage article that was said in connection with the worship of the idol of Baal Peor - "Israel did not worship idols except to allow them to be celibate in persuasion". The worship of the idol of science or the idols of sports or the idols of the singer or any other idol probably stems from worshiping the cross." E - difficult and binding. Worshiping idols is just easy.
https://www.hayadan.org.il/askeinstein-010900/
father. Goat:
And if you have already quoted Einstein - does this show that you attribute wisdom to him?
Because if so, you should consider the things I will quote from him (and if not - reveal your true face as a demagogue and a liar):
The idea of a Being who interferes with the sequence of events in the world is absolutely impossible. [Albert Einstein]
The man who is thoroughly convinced of the universal operation of the law of causation cannot for a moment entertain the idea of a being who interferes in the course of events... He has no use for the religion of fear and equally little for social or moral religion . [Albert Einstein, Ideas and Opinions]
father. goat
Thanks for the illustration
Michael
There are only two interminable things - the universe and the human stupidity and I am not so sure about the universe
Albert Einstein
Zamir Cohen:
Do I have to stand when I read your comment or is it allowed to read it in a yeshiva (or is it only allowed to read it in a yeshiva and not on a shrill and secular website in the abominable internet world)?
father. Goat:
What nonsense you allow yourself to ramble (and do so while they asked you not to comment - which shows how important your moral dignity is to others.
The Gemara is not science and is not disguised?
Nothing that is not science does not pretend to be science, but the Gemara pretends to assert true claims and it does so through false claims.
"And this is the whole essence of the Gemara, just amazing" - wait! So is she pretending? And how does she deal with the contradictions in the face of reality? Is the claim that lice are created from human sweat true?
"Truth and reality are not defined" - wait - so are you saying that your words are true or not? Do they describe reality or something else?
"The theories put forward by most rabbis are not tested against reality, but against interpretations" is what I said in my previous comments even though I have no idea but then you used it to disqualify me and my words. This exactly confirms my claim that no effort was made here to find out the truth but only a (failed) effort to reconcile the internal contradictions!
Your claim that religion has been replaced by clowning is interesting. I was never religious (even though I grew up in a religious family) so for me religion was not replaced by anything and probably not by pranks either.
You, on the other hand, are both religious and a buffoon.
There are many thoughts in a man's heart and God's counsel will arise
What is a human being that you remember us and a human being that you functioned and lacked a little of God
Thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone
-Religion has really done its job and it can really go
- because its place was taken by the arrogance of the buffoons and the insolence
-And the place of God is money and whoever says good then says
- See you on Shabbat with will have something to say because spiritual needs postpone Shabbat
Roy
- It is clear that the Gemara is not science and does not pretend to be
- (game theory, psychology or sociology neither)
- "Every scientific field is based on the ability to test itself against the truth, when the truth is defined as reality."
- And this is the essence of the Gemara with incredible precision with a small addition: truth and reality are not defined
- neither as truth nor as reality. The Gemara in a twisted and ingenious logical way pours the truth into reality and the reality into truth (as an assumption only)
.- The theories put forward by most rabbis are not tested against reality, but against interpretations
- Previous and contrary to the language of what is written in the Bible and other Jewish scriptures.
- Completely inaccurate not only that they are tested against the material and spiritual reality as an individual and as a society together and separately
- They are also tested in front of the claimant himself and the sequence of his argument throughout the Gemara. You cannot assert a claim on one issue and the opposite claim on another.
Friends, a slight break in the debate for technical reasons until 12 at night. Explanations on occasion.
A bit about science and populism. Well I read the article and how to say... I refused to get excited, I don't want to get into all the arguments. Some of them I won't answer because I don't know how to answer them and some because I don't think they deserve an answer.
The writer's eagerness surprised me a little, it's hard for me to do with someone who tries to slander his people. The so-called "farting" matter was also presented in a disgusting way and of course is not true.
What I want to add is that it is a slightly different point of view and not necessarily about the biblical text. Science itself as I know it is far from perfect. Populist speakers who claim to present science as the living words of God to the ignorant public, are often wrong and mislead their listeners, sometimes just like the converts. The scientific truth that I know today is also a product of politics of pressures and dealings, of a controlling attitude and so on. For example: the Cro-Magnon man, who according to the researchers inherited the Neanderthal man, was inferred from the finding of two types of bodies in a cave in Europe (France or Spain) and, of course, the attitudes that dominated the scientific parlors of that time. An entire scientific "truth" is based on this invention.
The primordial soup theory is today facing a theory that is gaining momentum which claims that the origin of life is not from the earth but from bacteria that were on asteroids that collided with the earth. Another question that can be raised is: if the theory of evolution is true why was man the only race that developed as it did? There are other intelligent races on the planet, did monkeys who knew how to build cups from leaves survive and monkeys who didn't become extinct, my hypothesis (although I can't prove it) is that the chimpanzees have remained as they are for millions of years. What about dolphins and whales? In terms of brain mass, they surpass us - how come they did not reach any significant achievement.
Someone actually found the remains of giraffes with necks of different lengths that would indicate that these really evolved from these. And what about goats and deer that survived in the same places where giraffes live, since the short-necked giraffes became extinct because they couldn't reach tall leaf-eaters? Why did the deer, the turtles and all the other lower animals survive?
To tell the truth, I have no answer. But I don't act like I'm writing this article and think (pardon the French) that the sun shines out of my ass. There are a variety of opinions (even in science) and frankly no one probably knows what the truth is. What I do know is that the writer's eagerness to slander his people's sources is, honestly. Pretty disgusting.
To Michael
Your way of drawing conclusions is flawed, if I claim that majority rule is problematic, the solution is not minority rule as you claim from my words, but anarchism.
Secondly, unlike you, I do not claim to have all the answers, therefore there are things that are beyond my understanding, such as how all the stones of life joined the thing that we were living and breathing or for example what happened in the first half second of the big bang, I am satisfied if you have answers to the questions.
But at least I know the difference between the Gemara and the Bible.
Did you understand that, Michael?
And we will end with a beautiful quote from Onori in Alzac "A man who boasts that he never changes his opinions is a man who undertakes to always walk in a straight line, an innocent fool who believes that there are men who never make mistakes"
Well, well, the letter tz is near the point
Atzvatz Bez:
When instead of arguments you turn to giving grades, I conclude (and so, probably, also all the sane among the readers, that your arguments will be shut up).
goat,
The Gemara summarizes the opinion of the sages of Israel in the period after the signing of the Mishnah (around the 2nd century AD), and was written mainly as a commentary on the words of previous generations of sages such as the Mishnah and the Creation. Here is the quote from Wikipedia.
Every scientific field is based on the ability to test itself against the truth, when the truth is defined as reality. The researchers formulate theories, and check whether they correspond to reality.
The Gemara, despite its beauty and the quasi-scientific process that takes place in it, when many rabbis argue about the truth and the best interpretation, is not science. The theories put forward by most rabbis are not tested against reality, but against previous interpretations and against the language of the Bible and other Jewish scriptures.
This is why the Gemara is not science.
Michael
Unfortunately, you don't have the slightest idea what the Gemara is about, what its role is, and how far it penetrates
You don't need to study physics to fry an omelet, but you do need to know how to light a fire
father. Goat:
Some of your questions stem from a superficial reading of my response and the other part was answered in my response to Yuval.
Regarding the "testing the truth" in the Gemara - your words are completely wrong.
The Gemara was not intended to find out the truth of the religion's claims, but to find out what follows from them in areas where the religion did not claim anything.
If the Gemara had developed while searching for the truth, it would have seen the contradictions as a reason to declare that the claims of the religion are wrong.
Since the whole motivation was different, the Gemara resorted to interpretation - sometimes completely delusional - just to create the illusion of overcoming the contradictions.
The examination of the truths of the Gemara and the other claims of the religion could have been completed very quickly in a few paragraphs from the article to which we are responding.
It is absolutely clear that the test of the truth of the religion fails.
Jubilee in Scotland:
The purpose of religion has never been the search for truth.
Religion has always made false statements about the truth in order to establish its demands in the field of behavior because if God who created the world is the one who demands then who are we to violate his demand.
In other words - the stories about the "truth" are only a basis for the behavior requirements.
It's a bit funny to begin with to define demands that the authority that demands them are falsely defined as "moral" but it becomes really sad when you see the demands themselves and realize how far from moral they are.
Religions were invented, in the past, as a means of controlling people and, therefore, also included rules of conduct, some of them logical, between man and his fellow man.
The intimidation through "God" was necessary in the absence of an orderly enforcement framework.
The situation is different today. We have (God willing 🙂 ) organized legislative and enforcement institutions and therefore religion has done its job and religion can go.
Michael and Yuval
"We are not born programmed, we have programmed traits" What kind of sentence is this?
The programmed features (dispositions)
1. Egoism: an evolutionary trait necessary for our survival as individuals
2. Conscience: an evolutionary trait necessary for our survival as a society.
3. The will to live: the strongest trait
4. The urge to reproduce:
5. The ability to distinguish between good and bad
6. The sense of justice
7. And more and more
In a blanket statement it means that each and every individual chooses during his life also with the help of education which one
Which of the qualities will be stronger and which will be weaker, and with his choice he goes out to social life.
And come to Zion Goel there is no need for laws, not police and courts and even the traffic laws remained
They are orphaned because a person has the right to vote and a voter is always in the best. And always but always pays taxes according to the law.
The situation is more complicated with the question of personal and/or social morality (it is interesting that your touch in the morality department requires a Jewish proverb)
To send a young army into a battle that ends in death or disability and this in order to protect the elders of the people. moral?
Is this the "order of symmetry" or not, or alternatively a Palestinian boy with an explosive belt to kill as many as possible
Jews according to his method, morality incarnate. Thousands of examples can be cited from the twilight zone between
The morality of the crime. I want to say the moral crime
Therefore, a person does not have and never had the right or the ability to determine for himself what is righteous from conscience or truth
And he needs guidance and external orders (including the laws of the state)
And whoever thinks that he is not is simply tamed and if he is also sure the trainer is excellent.
jubilee
Repentance should be outlawed, I agree with you 100%
As for the converts, no - because they must be executed in court, of course.
As for the truth:
"To Michael: the purpose of religion has never been the search for truth. The role of religion is to give a certain experience in which it is only one of many raw materials that can be creatively shaped (ie distorted)."
There is not a single scientific subject that has been examined more diligently than the Gemara, the whole essence of which is the examination of the truth, and this over hundreds of years and millions of flight hours and by tens of thousands of people, perhaps only 10 of whom are wiser than you
Maybe 10 is an exaggeration but years for sure
Thank you so much for this eye-opening article.
I will never read "Aia Pluto" like before.
The truth is that the book I have is very tattered, is there a chance that Pluto will punish me?
For a long time I looked for refutations of the book of the Havbat. I have relatives who bought it and I looked for a long time for refutations of his book, like refutations of other claims.
Does anyone know of any other rebuttals?
To Roy and Michael
LeRoi: I didn't go into the comparison with crimes, but if you manage to get the legislature to outlaw repentance, you will be blessed.
To Michael: The purpose of religion has never been the search for truth. The function of religion is to give a certain experience in which the truth is only one of many raw materials that can be creatively shaped (that is, distorted).
Personally, I despise penitents and their audience about as much as I despise drug users and their suppliers. In my opinion, religion should give us good rules of conduct without having to believe in higher beings or use myths. There are people (and these are probably the majority of humanity) who need myths to train themselves in good moral behavior. The danger I foresee from them is that as soon as they realize that the myths belong in the trash, they will also discard the moral principles that they managed to internalize with the help of our dear Zamir Cohen. As mentioned, the methods of the Panchayat repulse me, but they are the least evil.
Yehuda:
There was also a spelling mistake in your words, but a fairly justified mistake.
In response 238, you turned to A.B. the goat
This is because the letters B and E are close on the keyboard, but it turned out that what you wrote is better than what you intended to write.
father. Goat:
Sometimes it's exhausting to repeat things thousands of times just because someone decided to join an ongoing discussion through it.
Religion consists of a collection of beliefs and a doctrine of behavior.
Before we even get into the point that the religion's collection of beliefs is wrong and that its doctrine is immoral, I should help you notice the fact that comparing secularism to religion is a category mistake in general.
Secularism is not represented by any set of beliefs and does not dictate any doctrine of behavior.
Is an apple not a religion?
This is a question on the same level as the one you asked.
There are many ways to be secular. Some of those who call themselves secular also have beliefs.
When I talk about beliefs I mean those that have no experimental or logical proof.
Secularists advocating the scientific approach believe in a very limited collection of axioms that is partial to the collection of (contradictory) axioms that the religious person believes in.
The collection of scientific axioms is the minimum necessary for humans to even be able to have a meaningful conversation and if you need detail, I will detail on another occasion.
Certain secularists advocate the doctrine of behavior of all male Dalits or "eat and drink because tomorrow we die".
Other secularists advocate a "live and let live" approach. This last approach is opposed to the approach of the monotheistic religions and is in constant conflict with you because the religious impose their religion on others.
We are not born programmed.
We have programmed traits in us, of course, and we all pull our hand back if we touch fire.
We also have an innate aversion to acts of injustice (we also find such a reluctance in monkeys).
There is an innate reluctance to incest and murder.
There is an innate tendency for empathy and helping the helpless.
Yes. All of these are innate.
There are also conflicting innate tendencies.
The tendency to take anything for myself - whether it is mine or not.
The tendency to act in self-interest while depriving others.
Again - not missing.
All these drives were imprinted in us during evolution.
We have free will and it comes into play whenever we are required to decide between what our various innate tendencies push us to do.
We decide how to invest our money, what to eat or which show to see if at all.
Free will is also reflected in moral decisions.
There is a Jewish proverb that expresses the boundary line of moral decisions in a concise and beautiful way.
He says: "Whatever is hateful to you, do not do to your friend."
I call this commandment the "symmetry commandment".
This is an easy rule to reach also from game theory considerations.
Whenever we have different urges, some of which push us to act against the law of symmetry and some of which push us to obey the law of symmetry, we are faced with a moral decision.
We have free will, so we can choose any of the options, but society, for understandable reasons, encourages the moral choice - the one that upholds the order of symmetry.
This is true for every human society and religion has no monopoly on it.
On the contrary: the religion narrows the term "your friend" artificially and therefore, according to the Jewish religion, anyone who is not Jewish is not your friend either.
That is why it is forbidden to desecrate the Sabbath in order to save a Gentile.
This "software", which as mentioned is not completely deterministic and leaves us with freedom of choice, was not written by anyone and the question "who wrote it" presupposes the wrong assumption that "someone" had to write it.
It was created during evolution and it continues to be created before our eyes.
The story about the colors really does not belong and is not important, but nevertheless you should know that it is also based on a category error.
"Colors" are what we see.
There are no other "colors".
It is true that the sensation of color is created for us by different combinations of wavelengths (and I repeat - different combinations - there is no single combination that is the "color" red. It is true that if we limit ourselves to a single wavelength then only a certain wavelength will give a sensation of a certain red but The same red can also be obtained as a combination of several wavelengths).
There are combinations of wavelengths that give us a feeling of "red", some that give us a feeling of "yellow" and some that don't give us any feeling.
These last combinations are not color because color is a subjective feeling.
Wavelength is an objective property and so is a combination of wavelengths.
We have no problem describing a combination of wavelengths that we have never encountered before.
When you talk about a world of concepts that suffers from a disability - please - speak for yourself.
In the world of my concepts there is no disability.
Just because you can say cicada doesn't make cicada exist.
As mentioned, it is also not true that *our* world needs a creator. Things can be created by chance and according to the laws of nature.
In *your* world a creator is needed but don't blame us for that.
Lahugin the Amalekite
You have nothing to fear from me. I am against the extermination of a people.
Good Day
Sabdarmish Yehuda
One more little thing before I take a break for a while:
I noticed that there is a serious washing here where a lot of babies are also thrown with the water.
I would love to put something else very personal with the "special laundry".
A. My favorite sheep.
B. My old innocence.
C. North the rest of the way.
Hugin: The Amalekite.
To my friend AB Beaz
There is, and is, a spelling error and "in order" to show you it, I "should" quote your words:-
"It is appropriate to create such an idiot should be
Really really dumb", end quote.
Therefore, in general, it is better not to draw conclusions about secular problems that are plucked from the finger, so that we can all come to a frosty day as white as snow.
Good day in Goat!
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Yodla or maybe a bird - it's not me, it's Barak
Thank you very much my esteemed patron
You are secular and there is even a blessing
"With the blessing of brave seculars" the mother
I hear a religion, perhaps the religion of secularism.
It is not possible for her to have religion and enlightenment together
Personality I understand correctly
Not even a single typo is just a problem
Secularism is known for reading comprehension and a pre-evolutionary attempt to show the size
And with you the honorable patron of patrons forgave
To A. B. the Goat
At the end of response number 189 I wrote:-
"If I prevented someone from returning stupidly (in response) then I did my part"
So I ask:-
Does your latest philosophizing on the subject of "the essence of stupidity" mixed with a storm of emotions (and spelling errors) show that you are on the right track?
If so, know that we are here for you, Michael,Roey Tsezana and myself, and we will be ready to help you in your beautiful hour.
With a brave secular blessing!
Sabdarmish Yehuda
THL
You created the stupidity, and indeed you are also the atoms in the matter.
My local is connected to a higher sky plan - sublime beyond your understanding, your place has closed the connection to it!!!.
Draw your own conclusions.
All the best.
Hugin: No keys for you - you got more than enough.
Who created the stupidity??
Stupidity must be stupid
Until complete stupidity because otherwise
is not stupid
It's worth creating such an idiot should be
Really really stupid because why is it necessary at all
You're stupid - stupid aren't you? So such a dumbass
Such a stupid creature is so stupid and perfect
In his stupidity - really genius
To Boaz
It seems to me that at this point, I may not have anything to add - something is not yet ripe in your insights.
There is a horrendous lack of internalization here. Your business.
For "Hoggin and Monin" crows
Is it possible to explain this to Holocaust survivors??
For your information, conscience does not exist at all because it differs from culture to culture, nation to nation, society to society
And from person to person and it has already been said that murder, attacks, theft and rape in many societies are considered the dictates of conscience
So what is a conscience??
What does exist and is built in is the scorched egoism that is necessary for survival and can easily cause stupidity
Absolute if he is really, really egomaniac
Yehuda,
Is there a chance to run you to the Knesset?
To Boaz
Still, note that the existence of God in you stems from your lack of knowledge on certain subjects.
And I must point out that the examples you gave of things we are unable to experience as humans are really thought-provoking, but, really, does the fact that we are unable to experience a new color result in the existence of God?
The knowledge is increasing and the lack of reduced knowledge puts you on the defensive.
Once upon a time they didn't know what a rainbow was and they told us about some kind of promise from God to rest, with other gods it is a jewel of a divine princess, every nation and its stories, then arguments about who revolves who, we the sun, or vice versa, and science always comes out and its hand on top
Now you are pushed with evolution and the big bang.
Get over it, you are a smart and thoughtful person. I'm sorry, but after the Holocaust it's really better that such a God does not exist. And really, don't tell me again that we don't understand God's actions, because we've already been in this movie of incomprehensible things from which God's existence stems.
Leave, let us take the beautiful things in the Torah: literature, poetry, aspiration for freedom and freedom, honor your father, do not throw me away in old age, do not murder, etc., and the belief in God and the ugly mitzvahs will be erased with strength of spirit and pride (erasing the memory of Amalek, desecrating the Sabbath Deadly death..and more.
End of discussion from my side as well
Have a good and blessed day
Sabdarmish Yehuda
To Boaz
There are at least two types of conscience. The lower conscience is in the kidney area. The higher conscience is in the area
The innocent heart>>and the learned>conscience for a higher scenario is in the brain-heart-consciousness frequency area.
For intelligent information.
Yehuda
They knew and they know and everyone can
The fundamental question is where does the discussion start and in which way
Time point (it exists only for the purpose of the discussion)
Is it before or after the creation of the material. (before - after - creator - created)
We are forever captives in the world of familiar concepts
For us from reality and through them and only through them to try and understand to learn and explore
We cannot even imagine a new color that is not in the known spectrum
Is this a sign that there are no other colors. Another light from another dimension that is not revealed because
Yet we are still baboons and still ask who created God.
Because in our world there is the only possibility either a creator or a creature but there is also a cichlid
Our world of concepts suffers from a handicap that we cannot understand of what kind and in what way
Shaar.
There is a way to understand and those who don't believe will learn
By saying creator and created, we introduced the dimension of time, it simply does not really exist
End of discussion from my side
To A. B. Beaz
Nonsense
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"?, then who created God?
I warn you in advance that any solution you give to "who created God" will also apply to that initial material.
Is your explanation for the way of creation, instead of the big bang, the words of Isaiah:-
"Who measured the height of the water and the sky at the bottom of the earth and at the third of the earth's dust and weighed the level of the mountains and hills in the scales." (Isaiah, M, 12)? Is this the disappearing explanation?, God Almighty did it with the help of his little finger?, no need for a bang, no need for particles, nothing, just God's magical little finger?? Well, then the above explanation does not suit me nor 99% of the science readers.
And in general, the first sages of Kabbalah and even later, Rambam, were in a dilemma as to whether those visible Shabbat stars are stars or holes in the dome of the sky through which the radiance of Shekinah can be seen, so to say with confidence that they knew?, then they didn't know!
Good Day
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Michael
The secular mother is a type of religion that works
In the command of conscience that is convenient to think that is embedded and built into us
Even while we were in the womb. and enables our existence as social beings.
I want to say that at best we are born programmed.
The problem starts with the fact that the software is not immune to viruses
And history is full of crimes committed in the name of personal conscience
By leaders and crimes by the decree of the collective conscience by peoples.
In any case, there is no escape. You are not you and your opinion is not original
Religious or secular you are just like everyone else a programmed creature.
And we returned to the fundamental question, who wrote the software, why and when???
And to claim that the software was also written alone - this shows that God is a genius
God created software that writes itself.
Yehuda
I meant a lot more time than all the time in the world
The common mistake is to think that his friend might
They have their particle and created life while science
know that the foundation of matter and it does not matter how it is called
An electron atom is one quark boson or toson
After all, it is the foundation and one source.
How different materials with such different properties were created
that by breaking them down you always reach the same element found in everything and the understanding that everything is one
light energy matter anti matter black or white science is still pending
The problem and much more was solved by Kabbalah long before the particle accelerator
And even before the baboons were upgraded to humans.
And for those who don't believe they will learn
To A. B. Beaz
Correct according to your words "experiment and wonder that lasts trillions of light years"
Should be
An experiment that will last billions of years.
A light year is not time but the distance that light travels in a year in empty space.
A trillion is a thousand billion
A billion is a thousand million
Just for the sake of accuracy and good order.
And besides, I quite agree with your words
good evening
Sabdarmish Yehuda
The eternal debate between religious and secular will never be decided
The religious will always claim the way is my way and the secular will always search
His way is also with the religious Indian Jew and in all other religions.
That is why the discussion is fruitless and the question of where and how it is good and right to live
is solely related to the brain scratch that occurred in his childhood
of each and every one. (perhaps belongs to the male scratch of a bigger
When will we finally realize that we are all a collection of their particles that have decided
For some reason join each other and create together a life body soul
Ability to speak and think - and God knows how the bastards knew
The little ones, how and what, when and why - join each other together and in the very measure
certain and create a body from proteins
How a protein thinks, remembers, is wise and can be stupid, loves and hates, jealous, smells
And listens to music and also enjoys
They didn't know it happened by accident
An experiment and wonder that lasted trillions of light years under the direction of Darwin
And it's not a religion, it's just true.
And it has already been said that we are all wise, we are all wise
And they know the Torah because we are all sophisticated proteins
Only yesterday they were upgraded (not for everyone) from the Baboon to us
to hug
They are losing lives from Israel and I will be appeased??
The oppressors of Israel!
If people and rabbis are like that, we don't need anti-Semites.
Every day I will curse the number of them that their path in our world will be short and that I will get to see it.
sad day
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Seashell:
Thought!
This is already progress!
In the end you will become secular!
Daniel:
I am sure that many things are sublime in your understanding, so it is not surprising that my way of drawing conclusions is also among them.
Normal people are not proud of what is sublime in their understanding.
Let me quote you from your words:
"When will people understand that any ideology, once it radicalizes and becomes the rule of the majority, leads to suffering for humanity."
In other words - the rule of the majority is bad and it causes suffering to humanity.
That's what you said.
Do you understand what you said?
clam
May I know why you chose such a fascinating name??
Hugin: In the name of the shell,,, the cold.
I thought there were no secularists that stupid anymore
Yehuda
I think that instead of getting angry about things you don't understand in Hoya, you have the opportunity to help raise his name
By reading the letters of the XNUMX Psalms - according to its letters.
And in the 22th century: "The keys of David to Solomon" are the 8 letters: in multiples of XNUMX characters = sentences and they are the "ladders of Jacob" that are necessary to raise the inner level in a concise and high value way while we are alive to angelic octaves in life - the reading "pulls - like a frequency channel" to Exodus Eternity" to connect to your everyday being. (very simple).
Hugin: Reconciling heaven and earth.
sad
A Chabad rabbi died after a lung donation was not found for him
Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak Raichik, one of the most prominent Chabad operators in Israel, passed away this morning while waiting in critical condition for a lung transplant. Last Thursday there was still a chance to save him when a woman, a former kidney transplant recipient, suffered a stroke and died of brain death, but the family member refused the demand to donate her organs and hours later she died. Chabad spokesman: "We are not convinced that a serious halachic examination was done here on behalf of the rabbi"
Dr. Itai Gal Published: 21.09.08, 14:06
Chabad mourns: Rabbi Yosef-Yitzhak Raichik, a prominent Chabad activist, passed away this morning (Sunday) at Beilinson Hospital while battling a severe lung disease. Raichik waited two months for a lung transplant, but when no suitable donor was found, his condition deteriorated.
Last Thursday it seemed that there was a glimmer of hope for saving the rabbi's life, when a woman, a former kidney transplant recipient, suffered a stroke and was actually brain dead. The woman's family was asked to donate her lungs, but Rav
The family convinced the woman's son to refuse to donate, even though the mother's life was saved two years earlier due to a kidney donation she received. The woman finally died before Friday.
Rabbi Raichik suffered from pulmonary fibrosis. This is a disease that causes the collapse of the lungs and the need for ventilation. It is not known what causes the disease, but it does not result from smoking or an unhealthy lifestyle. Without a lung transplant, the patients are doomed to suffer from apnea.
For two months, Reichik waited for a lung transplant when he needed oxygen around the clock while confined to his bed along with the many medications he was taking. But his condition kept getting worse until he was rushed to Billinson Hospital in critical condition.
Raichik was put on a ventilator and his condition continued to deteriorate. As mentioned, many efforts were made to locate him and he was not found, the rabbi died at the age of 55.
- Mandy Broad, Chabad spokesman, do you not have a sense of loss, that you could have saved the rabbi if it were not for the ruling of the rabbi of the woman's family?
"Look, if this is the halacha then there is not much to do. We are people of faith and we know that we sometimes pay a heavy price for it. During the Holocaust, there were cases of people who could have saved their children at the expense of another child or person, but did not do so because it was against the Halacha and they saw their children going to crematoriums."
- But here we are talking about a case that could have ended differently, the rabbi's life could have been saved had it not been for another rabbi's ruling
"The question is really whether all efforts were made to examine the matter in depth from a halachic point of view. We are not convinced that a serious halachic examination was done here on behalf of the rabbi, and not only regarding the transplantation or organ donation in general, but about this
There is a patient whose life can be saved as a result of organ donation. This element has a halachic meaning and I don't know if it is indeed the rabbi who made the decision and gave the halachic ruling, whether he really entered the thick of the beam."
- For your part, you didn't try to talk to the rabbi's heart so that he would change his ruling?
"They started to act on the matter of rabbis and Puski Halacha, but it was too late, the woman died on Thursday at 2 am, and then her lungs could not be taken."
Rabbi Raichik became known for his practice of evacuating the children of Chernobyl from Ukraine, an operation that was successful with the aid of the United Nations. His relatives say that Raichik was known for his kindness and his warm relations with those around him. He left behind a wife, sons and daughters.
End of quote.
without the need for further explanations
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Michael
Sometimes I wonder how you draw conclusions from my words, I did not find in my words a hint of "utopian rule by an arrogant group", or a proposal for a substitute for another rule, and from your words it can be concluded that even today capitalism is the rule of the minority over the majority in Israel for example due to the blocking of centers of power by 13 ruling families In an economy that blocks any attempt of foreign penetration into the centers of power to strengthen the claim, the connection between capital and governance can be seen.
To remind you the war in Iraq and the great suffering it causes to both sides is in the desire to bring the light of democracy to Iraq.
And today I don't remember that children are educated in citizenship classes for a form of government other than democracy, so according to your logic, capitalism is also a religion and even particularly piggish.
And one last thing, they say that prophecy was given to fools, so it means that you are prophesying about my views in life
You must be a fool...
Daniel:
There are true things in your words, but there is also complete nonsense in them.
Communism - as implemented - was a religion. Like any religion, it educated people to believe in an unproven "truth" and to act in an uncontrolled manner according to laws dictated to them from the outside. It was also a religion - not because it was the rule of the majority but because it was the rule of the minority over the majority.
Do you think majority rule is bad?
Is the existence of a haughty woman who dominates the rest of humans the utopia you aspire to?
If so, maybe you should move to Iran.
There is no doubt that communism and capitalism and before that the rule of the monarchy or the time of the Romans and the Greeks brought much, much happiness to the world, (re-education camps, alienation of the poor, exploitation of African countries in the name of colonelism and the canvas will be shortened from the detail that can be given) when will people understand that any ideology as soon as it extremes and becomes the rule of the majority leads to suffering to humanity
jubilee:
Of course, in my above response I did not mention the most important reason for the fight against religion, which is the destruction, suffering, discrimination, poverty, hunger, wars and death that it sows wherever it grows stronger.
jubilee:
I don't understand you.
Is there, in your opinion, no such thing as "truth"?
Is there no truth in it?
Is it not important?
Why did you assert your claim - wasn't it because you thought it was asserting the truth and you wanted others to understand and accept it because, after all, the truth is important?
In my opinion, you should do some soul searching and reconcile the internal contradictions in your perception.
jubilee,
According to the same comparison, Rapists also generally give a good time (or a bad time) to those who like the genre.
And although the comparison is difficult (and I don't want to diminish the seriousness of sexual acts), I believe it is appropriate. This is about the rape of free thought by using active methods of brainwashing. People are looking for 'spirituality' and answers, and the rabbis knowingly provide lies. If the same people had come to other places in search of answers, it is likely that they would not have been tempted by the extreme repentance that the Batbatites demand of them.
or not. We never know what could have happened. But if you say that the pan and its audience are compatible with each other (that is, that the audience would have reached extreme repentance even without the pan), then you can also with the same degree of justice say that drug addicts would have reached their situation even without their first drug dealer, and that a woman who was raped was Raped in the worst way because she wears too revealing clothes. So why blame the rapist? He just gave her the bed time that suited them both.
Dear Michael - the main developer of the site - thanks to you I am also here. Have a great day
And don't forget….aaaahpci………..aaaapci…………aaaapci…..to your health on Israel..
Hugin: at Urlogin…….21.9.2008/XNUMX/XNUMX don't forget to whistle…….day ………….and a key..:)))) Smiley…smiley…magical. A developed mind…smiley…..to an angel like your name.
And Michael: Follow my letters and words and sentences to you on the site: Main Master Key@
Lior
I did not understand you
But you sound great
You have charisma
Great potential
To Roy
I am not a judge. Neither a prosecutor nor a defense attorney. I am not guilty and I don't care about any of these things.
While I prefer the brainwashing of a mathematician over that of a penitent, that's just a matter of personal taste. I suppose that if I had grown up and been educated in a different environment than the one I was given, it is very likely that I would be interested in other things than the ones I am interested in in my current situation. It seems to me that each person tends to reach the niche that suits them. Those who tend to get excited will end up in exciting places, and those who tend to get bored will find themselves smoking like me.
The pan and its people are compatible with each other. They are not useful to humanity and the rest of the world in the same way and to the extent that others are useful, but even if instead of engaging in missionary work they engage in other hobbies, they will not necessarily be more useful.
I still stick to my opinion that the pantheons just give a good time to those who like the deaner - and nothing else.
Hugin
I don't understand you but get a nice thing
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/
joshua_klein_on_the_intelligence_of_crows.html
Hugin:
When someone lies to others and slanders his children with baseless claims - don't you feel the need to prevent the act?
Avoiding confrontation is only harmful in this case.
Even when someone attacks you and it is clear to you that he will never continue to attack, the prevention does not solve anything and usually it only makes the situation worse.
I'm still waiting for you to use the keys and reveal to us a testable fact unknown to science. As long as you do not provide this fact, I will see your words on the subject as unfounded.
Lior:
I do not agree with Roy's opinion about you.
For me, a liar cannot be considered a nice person.
Sparrow:
Good. So now you've shown us that you don't even know what math is.
Two things about this:
1. Mathematics is not a science;
2. The only basic assumptions in mathematics are the laws of logic.
Regarding the lack of sources - this does not show a lack of seriousness or a desire to contradict. If you were to point out something incorrect among the things said in the article, then by all means, but you don't because what is said in it - even if the sources are not specified - is true.
You think differently - vote for what you think is wrong. Otherwise - well - the fact that your words are only meant to bash the writer is clear and you almost say it explicitly. It's just a shame that you are not satisfied with telling the truth and the purpose of slander also sanctifies the means of lying.
Many things in the Torah are clear enough even without the punctuation.
By the way, I once wrote a book that has everything in it - but really everything - all the scientific discoveries and all the moral laws fully and accurately.
The thing is that in this book I didn't just omit the vowels but also all the letters and that's why many people interpret it incorrectly.
You ask "And where in XNUMX Kings chapter XNUMX is written what you mentioned?" And my answer to you: in XNUMX Kings, chapter XNUMX - the whole chapter.
The fact that there was an astrological name named Rat does not change that. They did not observe the laws of the Torah because they did not know them (and as soon as they were revealed to them - they immediately began to observe them!) Why didn't Huldah bother to reveal the laws to them first?
In short - your words are nonsense.
to chirp a sparrow
It's interesting that you mention the prophetess rat.
In fact, according to the Chinese calendar, the State of Israel was established in the year of the rat-mouse. Indeed, this is a reason that we
We refer to it as a whole to understand ourselves as a nation.
Etc. etc..
Best regards
Hugin
Michael, why do you study science? There are all kinds of sciences.
In mathematics, for example, there are other basic laws than what you mentioned.
(By the way, I'm a woman).
I admit, I didn't read all the comments. Therefore, I cannot refer to all of them, I only referred to the article. But one response was brought up here, relevant to our issues: the claims were made without citing a source, and that's not how you write a scientific article. This alone is a reserved example of lack of seriousness and a desire to contradict the religion and nothing else.
Even if you choose to ignore the fact that the Torah was given in two parts, written and oral, you will not be able to escape it, because the Torah was given without punctuation, when in many cases the scriptures can be interpreted differently if the punctuation is ignored. Despite this, all those who refer to the Bible refer to it as punctuated, according to the punctuation passed down in tradition. So where do people take the liberty to use only part of the tradition, and discard the other parts? If you don't accept the tradition, don't accept it at all.
And where in 48 Kings chapter XNUMX is it written what you mentioned? In all generations, even in the most difficult times, there were prophets who preserved the tradition. We do not know the names of many of them, because only the prophecies of XNUMX prophets were written down for generations. But nevertheless, the name of one prophet who prophesied during the time of Josiah is written precisely in the same chapter you brought - and it was a woman, Huldah the prophetess. So it is not yet clear to me where you came up with the claim that no one knew the Torah at that time - but a prophetess who existed then and preserved the embers of the tradition is actually cited there.
Lior,
Thank you, you are a nice person too. And to address directly the arguments you raise:
At the Technion (a secular campus), where I walk most of the day, I don't see a majority of drug users. Even when I walk along Haifa's beach, I don't find a lot like that. It is quite possible that those who search, find drug users - but this still does not indicate that they are the majority in secular society.
1. Drugs are not candy, and they cannot be found that easily. Beyond that, there is education against the use of drugs, which is also effective to one degree or another.
2. Women have pursued beauty and social life since time immemorial. Even in ultra-Orthodox society you will see women measuring fashionable wigs and hats and so on. There are many women in all societies and sectors who do not pursue beauty but are content with the joy of life and the natural beauty they possess. As always, there is no unequivocal statement here. Besides, is the pursuit of beauty any less good than the pursuit of eight or more children? Is the pursuit of beauty more justified than the seclusion of the woman in her home, or forcing her not to reveal her hair in public (aka the pursuit of forced modesty)? In short, as they say, this argument simply does not hold water.
3. People pursue the pleasures of the body, but also know and learn to compromise. It is likely that there are extremes, but they do not indicate the rule.
4. It is not new that there is a deterioration in state education, or in the values it imparts to those who come within its walls. This does not indicate secularism in itself, or ultra-Orthodoxism and ultra-Orthodox education in itself.
I notice you haven't really responded to any of my arguments. I brought you links with statistics on the more common sexual harassment specifically in the ultra-orthodox sector. The honorable Yehuda Sabdarmish brought you many examples of the violence rampant in ultra-Orthodox society, but knowingly used against the secular. To all of these you responded with one answer: "The secular ones are worse, and leave me alone from the facts."
If this is indeed your opinion of the secular sector, you probably haven't seen all its shades and haven't been exposed to the full range of possibilities it offers. I strongly suggest that you follow through on your own offer and walk around the secular campuses and beaches, be exposed to all the happy families (more or less) and all the perfectly normal people who live whole and full lives within the framework of secularism.
Shabbat Shalom,
Roy.
I'm not Haredi, how does a Haredi write on Friday evening, comment on the website? cerebro.
Hahahahaha Roy you are a nice person... But the minority of the minority? Walk around the secular campuses, in the clubs and in the barracks.. Friday evening along Tel Aviv's canopy.. and you will understand where the secular society has come to.. The minority is those people who sit here on the site and plow through articles and study science.. and it seems to me that these books are too late already. (1) Drugs have become a trivial thing, you can find it so easily, and people use it like it's candy. (2) The women have become engineered and chase after beauty, in such a trance, never seen before. (3) People chase the pleasures of the body, as if tomorrow the orgasm will disappear forever.. (4) It is not new that the secular society is significantly deteriorating.. for 1001 reasons. So it's definitely not a minority.
I don't think there are bad people, and society's job is to keep them away from us, because it only exists in fairy tales. In the end, there is no one law that is the truth and you have to live by it, there is the realm of the reasonable, and that is what is special in our world, there is everything from everything, and it cannot be divided into good and bad in an unequivocal way.. which means you have to flow..
The nice attempt to create a democratic society, in my opinion, only slightly improved the situation of the individual in society, and did not make a coup, which means, not much will change in us, the humans.
—
Mr. Sabdarmish Yehuda, I'm not ultra-Orthodox, I'm secular for everything..
And I apologize if I underestimated your ability to satisfy your wife... simply after what she got in Africa, the question marks are very big...
To Lior
A. First of all, before you start with your collection of lies and practical stories, what better way to start than with slandering me and my wife's ability to satisfy. I assure you that he exceeds the Haredi average! And in general, where did you find a Haredi who would send his wife alone to Africa?, I won't add.
B. Before you start praising the average little hared, please make sure to correct the spelling errors of a big hared like you. "Deeds" instead of "accusing"?, what did you do at the age of 5?.
And regarding the rest of your words:-
1. It is a lie to say that a small Hared knows roots when it is known that the big one hardly ever studies math. And what about the other sciences? Is there a chance you will ever learn evolution? People who don't know what Pi is, and if they already know something, then its size for them is 3 (that's what it says in the Torah!, Kings 23, XNUMX, XNUMX).
2. The exposure to incessant violence is less? Have you forgotten the "children of the hills" who throw stones on Shabbat days? ?.
After all, if they allow you, set up machine guns on Saturdays on the coastal road and eliminate all the car passengers, and don't tell me I'm exaggerating, the Torah is full of examples of violence for the sake of it towards those who don't believe in your ways.
3. Capitalism is further away? Come on, what's better than sitting idly in a yeshiva and studying Torah while cynically exploiting the money of "faraway" capitalism? .
5,6,7,8,9. Practical stories that you tell your anxiety-stricken children that seem to be the norm among the seculars is drugs and violence. Are there any rabbis who have been caught in sex crimes?, and male dormitories in your boarding schools?. It actually sounds not bad.. more relaxed.
I repeat:- Your education system creates a frightened race, people who do not move without an instruction from their Rebbe, people who will throw away their beloved wives and children if only the Rebbe tells them, people who have made the Torah kardom to dig in it and they dig and dig, or as much as they dig!
So, tell your practical stories to others.
Shabbat Shalom
Sabdarmish Yehuda
jubilee,
Thanks for the advice. I was almost there, and I'm back. It bothers me that your response is interpreted as if the victims are to blame, by not studying psychology, etc. I prefer to blame the instigator and the dishwasher himself, and not his victims - who, as you said, undergo a kind of hypnosis and do not know how to protect themselves.
Lior,
I think you have a mistake in the definition of secular society. Contrary to the common misconception in ultra-orthodox society, not all seculars are drugged, violent, with silicone breasts, addicted to pornography, or all of the above together. Maybe the minority of the minority are like that.
And regarding the ultra-orthodox society...
A dangerous lack of knowledge about sex can lead to many problems:
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/11/ART1/029/453.html
Selfish power struggles between the various yards:
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/788/072.html
The phenomenon of battered women is probably the same in prevalence as in secular society:
http://www.macom.org.il/stats-religious.asp
http://www.batmelech.org/index.html
And according to Hana Kehat, chairman of Kolach - a forum for religious women - and I quote:
"In certain areas, the vulnerability of girls and women in the religious and ultra-orthodox public is higher than the vulnerability in the general public. In a special report on 'sexual violence in Israel' which was published in 2002 and included data from 1999-2000, a difficult picture emerges. Obscene acts and sexual assault against ultra-Orthodox and religious women is significantly greater than what happens to non-religious women."
http://www.macom.org.il/experience.asp
But you know what, Lior? This whole response humiliates you and me too, because we are trying to slander each other. Both secular and ultra-Orthodox society contains weak people, hurt people and bad people. Our goal as a company is to help those people and protect ourselves from them. Instead of trying to make arbitrary distinctions and claim that - "with us it happens less than with you", or much worse that - "with us it doesn't happen at all", I suggest that we focus on treating those painful cases, which occur with almost the same frequency in both cultures.
With the blessing of Shabbat Shalom,
Roy.
Michael
You asked how I would react if someone tried to hurt me?
So here's an example: we just talked about it between us and you'll see how inspiration works - it directly affects
So the answer is: A. Avoidance.
B. If this happens, I have a tendency to try to talk and give an opportunity to restore the matter.
third. Usually - a local moves away.
D. In case there is no choice, I will return
E. If I'm insulted, you shouldn't know - yes, a local can defend, but another place to consider
A large and twisted upper...Michael, I wouldn't want you to know.
F. The issue is different and in addition, this is the issue: if you also hurt someone else completely and honestly... this is the point that then
I'm just a fighter by instinct.. let's leave the matter and relax.
Too many things wanted here today..
Do you understand Michael to the point?
"The mercy to the wicked will end with cruelty to the merciful"
But do you understand what is happening and what happened??? We don't know today who is righteous and who is wicked!!
A bunch of confused from here until a new announcement.
And even more strange and funny and I don't know what exactly I'm doing here with you? I know, but
Well it will pass
Tomorrow, the day after tomorrow will be good
so good night
Salutations to Yehuda
wisdom*
The Scottish tributary, psychology, is a paradox.
Because if you study psychology, it will also define you, that you use heat as a tool, to understand things in their depth. Not necessarily, to get the best and most correct answer.
Because according to psychology, there is no such thing.
and black men. As you enjoy knowing more and more, and exercising your brain, and feeling omniscient.... People like to be shocked, to express wonder, to be excited and feel, to experience excitement, love, jealousy...
The following comment is not allowed to be read by children under the age of puberty…
Ha ha ha Sabdarmish Yehuda, "Move slowly to your home, to your headquarters? From Africa?" According to your response, the anti-religious, you seem to me to be under pressure at all, because you are not sure if you will be able to satisfy her after she received such a big deal in Africa. Maybe you are indirectly practicing the religion that did not prevent it? Maybe.
Since all we hear from Judah is how bad it is to repent, then I will argue how good it is to repent:
1. 5-year-old fairy children already know root exercises in math.
2. The exposure to the incessant violence is less.
3. The capitalization is further.
4. The pleasures of the body are more limited, which means the frustration is further away. not chasing the "more"
5. Most of the time you study, and exercise your brain, and you don't smoke hookahs at the age of 15 because of social pressure.
6. Do not inhale air conditioner gas.
7. Do not threaten the teacher with a knife at the age of 9.
8. Your father does not threaten the teacher at age 9 (both meanings).
9. Your mother during pregnancy does not do cocaine.
10. Your mother during pregnancy does not do with the one who does cocaine.
11. Most of the time are in large groups, the fear of isolation is small.
12. The silicon level that bakes to 0%.
It actually sounds not bad.. more relaxed..
To Roy, in response to "I was shocked"
This is exactly the trait inherent in us that makes us easy prey for converts. We are overwhelmed by a trivial thing. So what if she studied biology for five years and suddenly gained enlightenment from darkness? Things like this happen all the time. Have you heard of the phenomenon called hypnosis? Do you know the herd instinct?
If you continue to be shocked, Zamir Cohen will get you back right away with a complete answer. If you come to your senses and study psychology or something in a similar field, you might still be saved from his clutches.
The rest of the story, by the way, is even more surreal, and you can read it here:
http://info1.court.gov.il/Prod03/ManamHTML5.nsf/C44A0BB561577E49422574BE0056433E/$FILE/0C2067A6D2D53955422574BD0025D56A.html?OpenElement
Want another example?
Here is one that also illustrates the takeover of ultra-Orthodox idiocy even in the courts of law:
http://www.globes.co.il/news/article.aspx?did=1000381130&fid=829
Hugin:
The metaphysical law you described is not a law. It is just a statement that is true for some things and false for others and therefore has no practical value.
In electricity, for example, a positive charge attracts a negative charge and repels a positive charge. Likewise with magnets. Gravity, on the other hand, acts on any mass and there are no positive and negative masses.
Between humans, two powerful people will find it difficult to get along. Two smart people, on the other hand, will be attracted to each other.
I'm not sure I know why you mentioned this "law". Were you trying to imply that a person who encounters a murderer is actually a potential murderer himself? If this is your claim - allow me to protest with all my might. I also object to the claim of many religious people that the Jews are guilty of the Holocaust. Are you saying that the victims of the Nazis were actually human animals themselves?
I agree with you that you can get along with anyone, but I disagree with the way you propose to do it. There are people that in order to get along you have to punch them in the face.
Yehuda:
Things like spurs.
I really enjoyed your last comments.
The beauty of this company is that you can always bring an up-to-date story about their exploits and you don't have to go as far as the Bible and the Talmud.
Jacob Hazan and Avraham:
It is evident that you did not understand anything from all the correspondence here because all your words have already been answered many times before you wrote them. Therefore, return to the starting point (of the discussion - not of the culture. You cannot return to the starting point of the culture. There you must move forward).
Dear Hugin
You said: - "And if you feel like "hitting" me for a change as well - here on the screen, do it at your own pace"
Well, there are few girls who "volunteer" to offer themselves to a hot fetish show.
On the one hand, I will admit it and I will not be ashamed - it flatters me! But, I'm sorry, and as I said, my African is back, and I won't be able to make time this week for a violent extra-territorial Neanderthal show.
And regarding the end of your comment: "Hapusel, in Momo Posel", this is a statement that hits below the belt, and needs to be given some thought. Maybe I exaggerated a bit, but, if I prevented one from returning stupidly (in response) then I did my part.
good evening
Sabdarmish Yehuda
But the main thing I forgot to tell you.
My wife, the one and only, has returned from Africa, and like the homo sapiens of her time, she is moving slowly, slowly, north, in the direction of the Middle East, to my small house, to my bed.
So, the sounds of the tam-tam drums, still echo in her ears and her function is still not reset, but tomorrow the sun will rise.
Happy
Sabdarmish Yehuda
And for those who claim that this is an unusual case, please another article from YNET from today:-
The court ordered the "Beit Ya'akov" school in Elad to accept a girl who was rejected on sectarian grounds, and the parents' committee went to war. First grade classes in the city were shut down, and the notices posted at the institution read: "Scum has been committed in our city." Bnei Baliel appealed to the courts following the refusal to accept their daughters who did not meet the criteria of the spiritual committee"
This is how it will be done in a school that the court ordered to admit an Mizrahi student to its ranks: after the Administrative Affairs Court in Tel Aviv issued an interim order last week ordering the "Beit Ya'akov" school in Elad to accept a first-grade student who claimed discrimination on sectarian grounds, and the parents' committee is on strike this morning (day XNUMX) the first grade studies at two Beit Ya'akov institutions in the city and hundreds of female students remained at home. The parents are protesting the appeal of the student's parents to court, and the intervention of the legal system in what they see as a violation of the educational autonomy of the school and even claim the backing of the important arbiter, Rabbi Haim Kanievsky.
End of quote.
And to all the converts I would like to add:- They will work on you and promise you everything, love, a happy life and even eternity, but, you will always be with the ultra-Orthodox! Neither second tier nor third tier, you will only be seventh tier!!
A wedding??, just between you and yourselves, it won't happen that Hared will marry someone like you, and your sons will study anywhere possible, but..."not at home we said".
And the girls inside you?, you will be a machine to create children for the ultra-orthodox establishment, in exchange for which they will receive budgets, who will join the collection of "those without a backbone" who will vote for them on election day.
And if God forbid, you want to repent afterwards, then they will take revenge on you and your families. Just as they know how to be cruel and demand that most of the repentant people sever their ties with their secular parents if they do not repent as well.
And on this it was said:- Honor your father and your mother???
Do not forget the continuation of the above saying: - "For the sake of prolonging your days!", and remember that if you who believe do not honor your parents, God in whom you believe so much, will kill you!, one and the same!
Hey, fuckers, think twice and even twenty times before you repent.
you have been warned. I speak from bad and bitter experience of friends.
Shabbat Shalom for the secular
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Yehuda
God-Judah-yes yes you are the God (name name name) my darling (and part of his chariot) and why would you be angry and reprimand until
Kidney bone - and kidney (from where its name comes from). The problem is actually the enslavement of certain people to the "shepherd" guru, rabbi, etc. and a reduction and minority of their self-worth.. Look Yehuda, people are also looking for belonging and authority. Not everyone is "Yehuda" or "Michael" or...even "Hugin" who really really gets on your nerves and head...the truth is that I do understand why you get upset. This is also why a creature like me
We will be with you on the website and not in some unnecessary holo-lulu. But there are people who are going through it in the meantime. Not everyone is the same.
Also check the really dumb-sorry stigmas that you put on the rule. Check why you commented
Don't use my wisdom as a waste of time. Check it out - for your own good.
And if, for a change, you feel like "hitting" me on the monitor as well, do it with care, it's just as important as anything else. Give yourself this freedom and freedom to resolve the misunderstandings in the situation.
In your opinion, what is the sentence "the disqualifier - in his disqualification" - isn't it actually a projection of your reflection in the mirror?
Hugin: Mammoth to Mammoth.. and the nice sheep..
To all Man Dibai
A special response to all the idiots who want to repent and join the ultra-Orthodox.
Below is an article from YNET today:-
The lives of thousands in Israel are saved thanks to organ donations. One of them is a 70-year-old woman who underwent a kidney transplant two years ago, which saved her life. A few days ago that woman had a stroke and now she is dead of brain death. Now, after her family members were asked to donate her organs, people at the hospital were surprised to hear that the family refused, after the majority of the family from Bnei Brak vetoed the transplants.
The patient, who is hospitalized in a hospital in the center of the country, suffered from kidney failure, and about two years ago underwent a successful kidney transplant. A few days ago she had a stroke, and she was declared brain dead. According to information obtained by ynet from officials at the hospital, after it was made clear to her family that there was no chance of saving her, the transplant coordinator of the hospital met them. In a conversation with the family, according to the same source at the hospital, the coordinator was surprised when the woman's son expressed his refusal to transplant organs from his mother's body, claiming that the family's rabbi from Bnei Brak (the rabbi's details are kept in the system - A.G.) opposes organ donation. This is the rabbi known for his refusal to donate organs. After the rabbi talked with the transplant recipient's son, he convinced him to oppose organ donation. Later, the son convinced the other family members to refuse the donation of the organs from the body of the mother of the family.
End of quote.
And Sebdarmish Yehuda the Secular asks if it is said about this that "everyone who saves one soul is as if he saved the whole world"?. Is this the spirit of the Torah?
They knew how to take the kidney for their mother, but don't they want to donate their dead mother's lung to save lives?
In moments like these, I so want to believe that there is a God and that there is a hell, and that God will make a special section to take care of this good forced family and its wretched rabbi, and I wish them to get to the top as soon as possible and to suffer at least as much as the one who died because of them!
And that they will not be credited with the resurrection of the dead!
So to any sensible person who wants to repent, she asked me, do you really want to join such wretches? If so, then you too are poor.
Good weekend everyone
But mostly for the secular
Sabdarmish Yehuda
God exists because if he didn't exist then how was this universe created! This reality…
What started the "Big Bang"? (from which the universe was created in your opinion...)
All the claims against Judaism in this article are weak... (except for the one about the rabbit and the rabbit...) and stem from stupid conceit... and the poor quality of the article, which seems clearly unprofessional!
1. The clarification with the woman cheating on her husband is made clear mainly by the fact that on the pottery mentioned is written "the name of the explicit name" and this is something spiritual that we do not understand as we do not know many things such as what God is for example... (and the fart you mentioned is a complete lie!)
2. The claims against the sages of Judaism are stupid because the sages relied on the science that was known at the time...
3. The claim about the rabbit and the rabbit should be checked in the sources of the sages of Judaism.
4. The claim about time is stupid, because time is relative to our planet and the term day comes to describe a period of time..
Most of the claims are against the sages of Judaism and not against the Torah... and even those who are against the Torah stem from ignorance, distortion, and shame!
My very dear Michael
Good questions: There is a metaphysical law, which you must check its application and it is called: similar attracts similar-different repels different.. the irony of fate that sometimes when the bowl is turned upside down, the law is interpreted the other way around.
It is true that I am now a bit difficult and provoking even to the point of arrogance out of enthusiasm for nice-returning feedback and all the other reasons that my local notes on the website and in the books for inheritance.
As a principle, every loophole calls for a thief - yes, it is good and right not to be provoked either by chance or by fate or by luck. And the person must be smart enough to prevent in advance by any means known, available, and timed.
(A person must be afraid of "himself" even by raising a fear) There are many tools and training (training-learning, experience, learning..)
In order to really prevent!! And we both know that I am not young either and experience also knows that nobility and directness
Makes it possible to melt even the most dangerous criminal... Yes, there are many ways taught in all the literature of the world and those who want to learn to be at peace with everyone - this is the whole Torah and our genetic "duty"! on one essence foot.
Michael? Secretly? Quietly? That no one will hear?? I don't start my day before showering and praying.. and you spend years proofreading, among other things, so who is watching over you too?? Angel?
There are tools for everything in life - if you want! And you don't have to be religious, extroverted or self-righteous for that.
At the moment, I told about the essence (and now I'm really ashamed of the exposure...) hahaha,
Not bad.. Hugin: We'll continue on Saturday as well.. maybe..
Too bad you don't understand what pride trap you are in
In what blindness do you exist? How does pride guide you?
Finding lies in the Torah without having studied the Torah at all
And especially without having understood and studied the theory of Kabbalah
Because all the newest discoveries have been there for a long time
But they are there in the language of the branches of Kabbalah that need to be learned
her. Something you probably won't be able to do
So enjoy the doubt. Enjoy your delusion of justice
Because there is not much time left
Hugin:
If on your way you come across a murderer trying to murder you. Will you sanctify him?
If someone lies to you or tries to steal from you - will you respect him?
Are these kinds of meetings good and beautiful things?
What nonsense?
Is everything really sacred in your eyes?
Beauty is not *the leading principle* in science either. It does have importance, but its importance falls short of the importance of matching with reality.
Michael
When you "see", the essence is in everything. But it is not possible to "see" if there are no temples for everything
It is the secret of the hidden essence in everything.
The sanctification of everything begins with respect for everything. Usually, when you are in this insight, you will stumble along the way
Good and beautiful things. This is the leading principle in everything - including the sciences, including any path whatsoever. And there are also
Secondary stations and there are main stations. Who said that the road is easy? But if you also like the process, you begin to see more quickly the essence of the matter and from here it is already a story - a living and breathing paradise and even fascinating - on earth... and maybe another phase to come...
Boaz:
If you don't know, it means that you don't believe in the truth of what is written in the Torah, and if so, you don't believe that it was written by an all-powerful and all-knowing being.
I congratulate you on abandoning religion and returning to reason.
Lior:
Am I to understand from your words that you think they are smart and exclusive?
After all, not only is there no innovation in them in general, but there is no innovation in them compared to what has already been said in this discussion.
Not only that, but there is also nothing wise in them and in fact the claim that the Bible is not a book of science and formulas (which has already been written here many times) tries to deal with something that no one has claimed. All that is claimed is that a being who knows everything like Jehovah should not write nonsense and because the Torah Full of nonsense, probably not written by such a creature.
An article like this only proves that true geniuses (Einstein, and Freud) are rarely discovered.
Forgive me for saying, but the opinion in the article lacks thought and experience.
And I will be brief, since this is not a conversation but a response,
For the first part on the creation of the world only.
You mentioned that the Bible does not explain about the legendary point full of energy that became the universe, about molecules, genes, etc. and that is true... except that you have a big mistake..
The Tanakh is not a book of science and wisdom. The common man does not sit every day behind science books that explain chemical processes at a height of 1000 meters above the surface of the Martian soil.
The common man follows the faith, the opinions of society, and these few study the universe
And our world. And they, too, after arriving at solutions and formulas that create a mushroom of smoke the size of a volume, do not find the answer to the essence of life, and probably will not find it either, because it stinks that this thing is beyond our capabilities.
So I wouldn't expect the narrator of the book to teach me the Pythagorean theorem, in such a pretentious tone that the article presents.
Tired of hearing doctors and professors who know how to do one thing and another with some opinion
and think they are Aristotle the child.
In today's world, when everyone knows everything.. and after that they realize how far they are from knowing everything..
Only if you have something very clever and exclusive to say, then say it.
Michael
I don't know, but I'm sure the argument raised a rumour
Another tiny sentence: Med-Zik does not underestimate the essence of the matter.
It is desirable to study and it is really desirable to filter....but leave respect also for the "plain", it is possible that at the next station the "all in all" will also be necessary for another continuation.
To Roy Tsezana - it's a pleasure to read your answers in the discussions, you present interesting and logical arguments and in addition speak about it with respect and politeness... Good luck!!
father. goat
I understand from your words that the rabbit and the rabbit actually rummage. Right?
So.. to Boaz
So: "Love your neighbor as yourself". No more, no less.
Hugin: On one leg :):)!
How is it even possible to put the Torah of Israel together with
Most of the converts are at the level of the thinking nod
which was mentioned in the scholarly article that raised him as a bloated fart.
And for that matter there is no science and no scientific research in the world in which hours have been spent
A study of learning and wondering as in the Torah of Israel on all levels and
By the hands of geniuses of stature such as the aforementioned conditions
And the sages of Israel for generations
The bloated experience and sweeping cancellation of a glorious tradition that continues
From the dawn of history to the present day and put a group of infantiles as exhibits
Those who return to repentance like for example Amnon who is sure to cry again and not
Yitzchak as presenting and explaining and interpreting the Torah of Israel
It's not ignorance, it's wickedness that hides in the shadow of enlightenment and seeks progress
In a simple probabilistic calculation, the Torah of Israel according to tradition exists
For five thousand years each generation studied and memorized every comma in the Torah
Thousands of students and rabbis (Gemara Mishna Kabbalah) and every student learns
At least five hours a day - and no one understands???
It was just waiting for the learned writer to blow his nose and enlighten our eyes
He will listen to our ears with his reduction and spread the smell of a genius who farts
From the ass or perhaps from the head (same place) of the repentants who may have finished
third grade. And finishes and says this is the Torah of Israel
Are you really out of pills??
Michael
Amen
Hugin: For the highest weighted good. Yes, please.
Michael the High Priest sings and is the guardian of Israel: the redeeming angel. Wow……………:) 🙂 🙂
Michael, the work is great and you are mobilized from your higher conscience.. and that is indeed what you are doing.. hi. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha been a mutual/virtual/thought/conscious..
And all is well. :)
Do you happen to know..Who is Yehuda??Y-H-W-D-Hahaha??? Recently he stopped referring to his wife's "African roots journey" since then...Yehuda??? There is a reference here to migration and more
Kahane and Kahane important factual things also related to the new sun that was born on high...isn't it spectacular in its beauty??Are you angry with me??Or are you just clinging to superior controls easily??
The Hoggin...in fairness.
Stock Exchange:
Because we are all solid investors
why are you so calm
Hugin:
Regarding your analysis - it is not an analysis but wishful thinking.
sparrow bird:
You got confused.
The number of basic assumptions in all of science is tiny and we are talking about assumptions without which it would not be possible to engage in it at all.
The first assumption is that the laws of logic are correct.
The second assumption is that the laws of nature are equal everywhere and at all times.
Other than that there is no discount. Everything is based on experiments and the analysis of their results. Any description of science only indicates a lack of understanding of what science is.
That's why the terrible mistake you make when you compare them to a religion that is nothing more than a large collection of unfounded basic assumptions (neither on experiment nor on logic) is understandable.
As someone who does not require logical traceability (a necessary requirement in science) you also ignore the fact described in the Bible itself - XNUMX Kings chapter XNUMX according to which in the days of Josiah no one knew - not only the oral Torah but even the written Torah.
It is interesting how, with such a story written in the Bible, the supporters of false religion continue to claim that the entire Torah - including the oral one - was transmitted without interruption from Mount Sinai to the present day.
Besides, I don't know if you understand that your words contradict the claims of all the opponents of the article so far who came forward with claims that some of Amnon Carmel's claims about the nonsense in the religion are not against the Torah but against the Oral Torah.
Hugin:
I actually cherish the human conversations that take place here and even take part in them (in one of which you also participated, I even expressed my appreciation today).
I can also joke.
I have never hit on any of these types of statements.
Therefore, with all the desire to please you, I must say again that the implicit claim in your words towards me is not justified.
Regarding Arthur Koestler - the first of his books I read was The Ghost in the Machine in which he lamented the tendency of humans to organize themselves into organizations such as states or religions and as a result commit atrocities that individuals would never dare to commit.
Therefore, in reminding you of him - out of nothing for her sake he came for her sake.
And now for my analysis:
The Jewish people bear the memory of all the children of the world: The Jewish people are the monument of the living memory of all
The world of the past and that is why it is called "Hebrew" from the Hebrew language (ancient world, ancient - eternity, ages, ages). The Hebrew word encodes within it all the memories, both of the past and of the present - the reader of Hebrew also understands the inflection of the syllables in all the leading languages, both spoken and written. = Nesham-e" confused languages.
This is why we here are committed to the purification of our words, our thoughts, and the peace between us on the computer screen, for life. And every hour. In the moments when we reconcile the consciousnesses of time and thought, our place like a living and breathing transmitter transmits the message with spontaneous vibrational waves to the whole world - the children.
Judaism = worldly parentage is binding..for the good in any case. And this is a deep-rooted promise from the Almighty
To our heart (see the anthem) the circulatory system, in the names we bear, and more and more.
I do try to speak in positive language - humanity has matured and is ripe for a better future.
This is the meantime.
Hugin: In pure fairness - motherland.
Michael
Since I suggested it to you, it suddenly became clear again that everything that is sane, spends, and I am not exempt from it either.
And so after a slight pause of supreme reflection..I realized that I should simply share with you where a book opens
which happened to be not far from my reach: "When and how was the Jewish people invented" p.m. 228 "The Mystery - Minyan
Did Eastern European Jews arrive? Arthur Kestler, a Zionist pioneer in his youth, who was even close to the leader
The "revisionist" Vladimir Zabotinsky was disappointed with the settlement enterprise and the Jewish national movement (after being a communist he even despaired of Stalin and became the bitter enemy of the Soviets).
At the same time, until his last day he did not stop supporting the existence of the State of Israel and did not stop worrying
to the fate of the Jewish refugees who immigrated to it. All his life he also abhorred racism in general and anti-Semitism in particular and for that he mobilized his best literary talent. Almost all his books have been translated
into Hebrew and were very successful. Among the reasons that led him to write "The Thirteenth Tribe"
It was the desire of the daring writer to defeat Hitler and his legacy on the eve of his death, in a last resounding ideological battle. He believed:...
This is..totally random…
I wonder if Yehuda, Higgs, and others have anything to say on the matter - and you, Michael, of course: this is our conversation.
Hugin: With affection.
It is a bit difficult for me to take seriously an article whose author does not know and is familiar with the matter he is dealing with. When dealing with any science, one must know and be familiar with the basic assumptions of science. The basic premise of the science called Torah study, which is actually knowledge without which it is not possible to move on, is that Moses, in addition to the written Torah, also received a great deal of oral knowledge at Mount Sinai - knowledge that interprets and expands what is written in the Bible. The knowledge was passed from father to son and when there was concern that it would be forgotten, it was written down in the Mishnah and the Gemara. So that when referring to the knowledge of sages, it is not possible to refer only to the Bible, and it is necessary to refer to the Mishnah and the Gemara as well.
But here, from the wording of the text, we can learn that under a pseudo-scientific guise, the writer seeks to disparage a field he is completely unfamiliar with, by raising arguments against details he has never studied in depth.
To come and claim that "they take an innocent story and build different scientific stories on it", is simply ignoring the simple rule that the Torah is not only this verse, but much beyond it. The fact that in the last hundred and fifty years people who call themselves "biblical scholars" have arisen and decided that they know how to treat the scriptures better than people who have lived this science for thousands of years, is ridiculous and does not legitimize the "science" they produce, or the possibility of treating the Bible without the accompanying Mishnah and Gemara to his.
Beyond that, in the past there were things that the scientists shouted about because the Torah was wrong, and then scientific discoveries were made that proved that the Torah was right. I recommend reading the book "Nachali ba Gad", there are some interesting details about it.
And finally, the writer just twists things. Where did you get the "farting" thing about the bitter water? After the woman had drunk the water, if she had been free from suspicion, this water would have praised her, and she would have given birth to better children. But if she cheated on her husband - her stomach would swell and she would die in agony! But it's much nicer to present it as a "fart", thereby making this whole divine thing ridiculous.
Michael
Arguments cause, how shall I define it? For a very heavy charge, that is, they create gravity.
My place is already longing for the next task... and I'll give you an easy, one-of-a-kind example: just now
Our people raised "with the blessing of friends" a dream and a request to explore material from Mars, even for free
So longs and my place is requested to fulfill this too for all those represented by him.
If we only charge and don't smile, we won't be able to release unnecessary gravitational forces on the planet and there simply won't be
Nice, hess. If you laugh more, maybe we'll discover the nanoparticles more moderately and with fun. You too
All the northern secrets in your book and even in any "random" book you open: try and tell me what comes out.
I do like situational analyses. Wow. That's it..
Hugin. Affectionately (well..you won't take that from me either, will you?)
Hugin:
First of all, I guess at my age I'm not so partisan anymore.
Besides, I fight with arguments and not with people and the arguments I fight with are not able to cross sides.
In short: what do you mean? Can you point to a response of mine that supports your claims and explain to me how?
Michael
You're fighting wind stations that have completely switched over to the side you're "flanking"-scientific progress.
Serious people are interested in approaching you and your place continues to hit, it is not clear what and why.
Michael, if you don't argue, it doesn't mean that people don't have a mind. Maybe just the opposite, much more
To the individual's ability to absorb. Take this into account.
Hugin
Daniel:
Embarrassing mistakes is a description that only fits mistakes.
Has anyone here claimed that the claims you say are not from the Torah are indeed from the Torah?
No one here claimed that.
Endless mistakes is a form of expression and if that's what you're dealing with, you probably really have nothing to say (this is also a form of expression - I'm sure you can say "a gardener grew grain in the garden").
The fact that the Torah has 70 faces is precisely the result of the incessant evasions from reality.
In front of every argument you bring up another facet of the Torah which although contradicts the other facet but serves your interest.
This is a sophisticated (or stupid) form of lying. no more.
Science has no opinions at all, as I have made clear many times, and therefore it has no conflicting opinions either.
There are theories and they change in light of the results of the experiment.
In science, theories change over time and at all times one theory dominates that expresses the best understanding of the subject and in this theory there are no known contradictions because another would have been thrown away.
In religion there are constantly 70 contradictory theories valid at the same time.
I really don't care if people believe in the existence of God.
If there was evidence for this I would believe it too.
The problem is that religion is much more than belief in God (one of the seventy interpretations that people interpret this word) but that it requires its believers to impose a certain behavior on me (when in some cases this behavior is simply death).
This is not about any arrogance but an attempt to dislodge the arrogance and the attempts to control others that the representatives of the religion demonstrate.
To Roy
In my writing about scientists at the highest levels, I did not mean converts but people of faith who belong to different factions in the religious crowd who, in my opinion (and apparently others who responded and agree with parts of it regarding the improper methods) simply feel disrespected!
To Michael
I do not intend to descend to the level of personal insults, but I will correct the necessary correction.
The knowledge of the Torah is indeed necessary because this way one can avoid embarrassing mistakes and say that in the Torah it is written "the division of the trachea into 3, the number of chambers of the heart, the length of pregnancy of animals"
Or to claim that there are infinite mistakes - meaning that a written number of mistakes has a total sum.
Regarding the commentators, what to do, there are 70 faces to the Torah and each one interprets it in a different way (Rambam's books were burned due to the claim that he was a heretic), so you cannot take one opinion and base your arguments on it and reject the other opinions and say it is disgusting.
Compared to this, if we examine how many times in the last 200 years science has changed the established theories, we will come to a similar conclusion that he is stupid, which he clearly is not.
I do not know if there is a divine presence, but I do not arrogantly oppose the position of other people who think that God exists.
To Roy Cezana
It is a pleasure to read your comment and I reinforce your position. I also have a friend who, after hearing several lectures by Amnon Yitzchak, almost repented, luckily I was able to convince him that this was a demagogue of the worst kind.
For everyone, without exception.
So, what will happen?
Now it is more and more clear that the accelerator in Cern is indeed essential for general arousal.
The spirit going on here on this site, in the four directions of the wind, is indeed gaining necessary kinetic acceleration
into the heightened spontaneity contained within me.
And today, the 17.9.2008th of Elul, September XNUMX, XNUMX, my local is happy to be here and in the midst of an accelerated mental consciousness.
Raise by a few quantum degrees all the vertices of the brain that share the things here, and the height of all the heavens - heart to heart
Their hearts also tell those who are disappointed that everything here and now is for nothing.
It is possible, and again, due to my biogenetic and electro-conscientiousness-which is intertwined in me to original "spontaneous bioions"
to remind that it is not possible to accelerate the sub-atom and the heart of the universe to its essence before the interior of the human heart
This process is called sanctification, or inner initiation, and it turns out that any way
Consecrates the purpose of the umbrella/meter/sprinkler/upper target in upper weighting that is rotated and rotated.
When your reactions reflect lu-la: they are in the spiritual heavens-to your higher self, and they are here to the scenarios of your mental-conscious mind. Therefore, you willingly share,
(I didn't buy you a computer...nor did I personally tell you at this moment to connect to the site and sit with us to feed and drink from the ancient Philosopher's Stone, which is shared by me and you. You do it in your own special way. When Avi-Abraham's website has topic articles synchronized to the hour
This is-in-being. In-being-and-being (the will-will-be-encrypted-in all of us in the spontaneity of the existence for its own sake). These
You would also appreciate and respect the astro-sophic-logical codings, it might be easier for you to understand the coders of the systems of logic, which are necessary for an internal upper adjustment with the multi-galactic cosmic code.
It is the one who wants and is coming to know the secrets of the universe - is obliged first to know himself and the heart of his desire. Also known as - the eternal desire - the eternal memory of Israel for its generations - for all the dynasties of the ages
The farthest - the whole of the global-universal-multi-galactic-cosmic human collective (emperors of heaven and upper tribal brotherhoods - united).
To the threshold of the autumnal equinox 21.9 when balance is established: sky and earth/turquoise-and brown/day-night, etc.
I also wish everyone an internal frequency balance in order to contain the depth of my words - and my words in clear Hebrew. To see clear and clean in the light of things. And of course, how could you not? To love everything that is under your nose
Really, and respectfully.
Yours: Hugin - in pearls and in lights, your beloved: the daughter of Benjamin - the bearer of the deer, the son of Sheol / in the grandfather - peace and Solomon and more.. and more. And everything is true and correct for continued acceleration and leap, in higher tuning. ISRAEL.
Blessed are your wild dreams and how not? The sweet ones, of course
Blessed is the scientist-for his challenging articles.
Regards to our Judah... we are biased!! Judah? ..and the sky, for the heart to play..
Thanks to Michael, there is nothing that does not relate to him - in his unique way.
Thanks to Higgs for the insightful feedback.
Thanks to GOOGIL for understanding interest in joy and age.
Ok, without protections - everything is given in your heart - like the noble helium in the core of the suns.
Hello everyone,
First, I would like to express my appreciation for the writing of this article and the in-depth examination regarding those various and unnecessary religious claims, it takes courage to say these important things in a world that contains so many innocent people who follow ancient and primitive beliefs, and are ready to attack anyone who questions "holy" things such and such.
The purpose of my response is mainly to reinforce the things said in the article, mainly because they are a perfect example of many more cases of using available techniques in order to distort the realistic opinions of those people who are unsure of their disbelief in heavenly factors.
The article reminds me how sad the current situation is in which we all live, small children grow up in a tradition of rituals and prayers, the result of intimidation and washing by their religious parents, those children who will grow up to be religious people who call on someone who is supposedly somewhere...
Some of them will be those who will lie and pretend to repent, but some will be, despite everything, really good people, who respect the other, but still convince themselves of their faith and make excuses to justify their beliefs, lest they lose hope and faith in God, as soon as they doubt the things they believe in.
The clergy believe in destructive things, for example (I give an example from Judaism, but this does not mean that other religions are justified):
"The chosen people", Jews really believe, only because they are Jews, because they are a more righteous people than other peoples, well really... cliche as it may sound, aren't we all human?
I will end with something that will further question religion...
Imagine a person who, while walking down the street, suddenly stops, takes out some fantasy book - let's say one of Tolkien's books, and begins to read it, and polishes the ritual with two different experiences, bowing his head towards the book, and continues his strange actions when he kisses the book and calls his book holy , true writings and so on...
Isn't he weird or mentally ill? So why do people who go to pray in synagogues or churches for example not seem strange to other people? What gives justification to believe that the God specified in the Bible is the real God, and not the one specified in Tolkien's book (The Slimerillion) called 'Aru', who gives proof that Judaism is more correct as a faith than the faith of that strange man?
Dear friends, the man I invented is indeed strange if he existed, but the clergy also practice such customs...
And your response???
Hugin:
A sentence like "If you have an internal answer to this, something productive, creative and not destructive: it will be interesting to understand you." is not a question but an accusation. This is a claim that in all my words so far you have not found a productive trend. This is what I referred to when I said "blame" and explained (in my opinion, the obvious) that this accusation is baseless.
Daniel:
You claim that I am not answering your question about whether I have read the book.
This is a method worthy of your style. The goal sanctifies any means - even a lie.
Please show me where you asked this.
If you really need an answer to this question, here it is: I haven't read the book. I don't need to read a book that tells me the sky is green before I call its author colorblind, a liar, or a fool.
The meandering between the Torah and the Gemara, as far as this serves the needs of the Mechabat, is indeed typical, and thank you for the demonstration.
Dismiss the claims against what is explicitly stated in the Torah by fabricated interpretations of people who did this after the Torah and dismiss the claims against the words of people who interpreted the Torah by claiming that they are only the words of interpreters. Kudos to demagoguery and lies.
By the way, exactly the same type of nonsense is also used on the topic of morality.
Rashi interprets the scripture as "nafiha" but that is only Rashi - it is not written in the Torah. On the other hand, in the Torah it is explicitly written to kill all kinds of people, but when this argument is brought up, some idiot always comes up who makes the claim that it is only the written Torah and the much milder Oral Torah.
In short - disgust.
The fact that you claim that you are a former religious makes you an expert in theology, is not relevant for several reasons:
The first is that it is just like claiming that an idiot (diagnosed as having an IQ below 20) is an expert in neuroscience.
The second is that theology, if it provides any knowledge at all, is knowledge about people's beliefs and not knowledge about the correctness of beliefs.
Your method of making me a believer in God is to define Spinoza's lack of God as God.
Beauty. Otherwise I would not believe it and yet I would believe in the existence of the keyboard on which I am writing this comment. You would define the keyboard as a god.
you made me laugh
Google:
I do not agree that this is an education system and I stand by my opinion that what they do there is training.
See the willingness of all the religious commentators to humiliate themselves by telling nonsense and lies while sacrificing all their self-respect, just to "hit" those who oppose the Torah.
Any indoctrination to move away from the truth is in my eyes taming.
elf:
Your words are ignorant things that have nothing to do with the discussion going on here.
jubilee,
The problem with Zamir Cohen and his ilk is that under the right conditions, he puts his audience through a kind of brainwashing. I have a friend who used to get a scholarship to go to his lectures and other converts every week. After a whole year of her doing this, she started singing to me with complete faith the same crap he spews on stage... even though she graduated with a master's degree in biology with honors, and is one of the most independent and talented women I know. And I just sat stunned while she told me with shining eyes all the things that contradict the five years of study she went through at the Technion.
I suggest to anyone interested in the subject to read the book Battle for the Mind: a Physiology of Conversion and Brainwashing, which explains how an evangelist, for example, converts die-hard secularists. The methods, not surprisingly, are almost exactly the same as those used by Zamir Cohen and his colleagues. The book was written by William Sargent, who was a leading doctor in the field of psychological medicine.
In short, these people are dangerous, and that's a fact. It's not just a matter of genes, but also what state of mind you're in when you get to them, and how much knowledge you have in advance. And those who do not have enough knowledge, or who are in distress, can fall into their net before thinking twice.
elf,
I don't look down on anyone. I appreciate the penitents for their stage abilities, as I admire the skill required of a circus clown, or a magician on a stage. But as for the 'science' they put on display, it is nothing but a caricature of science as it really is, and they exploit and squeeze it for their theatrical needs. But I have never heard of 'scientists at the highest levels' who are also Haredi converts. I would love to hear from you about them.
In conclusion,
I hope that we will all continue to believe, each one as he sees fit, in the God we choose. I hope that none of us will try to impose belief in another god - either by actions or words - on another. And I hope that all those people who try to hang the existence and truth of God on such and other scientific evidence will realize that there is no connection between them and the real God, and in fact they are only causing damage to their faith. Because as many have already pointed out, science changes all the time, but God remains constant. If a person places his faith in the connection between scientific facts and God, then he will end up severely disappointed when the scientific theories change, but it will still be possible to interpret as if God supports the previous theories. And as it is said in the chapters of the Fathers of God, Mishna XNUMX, love '...which does not depend on anything - is never void'. It's a shame that the converts try to hang their love for God on material things.
In short, believe and let believe (or not believe).
Roy.
It is very interesting why an article coming out against the use of alleged "scientific facts" for conversion immediately turns into a talkback war about the very existence or non-existence of God.
As for God's character and morality, let me quote one verse from the book of Deuteronomy (Yidd) that you shall hear in one of your cities which the Lord your God has given you to dwell there, saying, "The people of the sons of Belial went out from among you and drove out the inhabitants of their city, saying, 'Let us go and worship other gods whom you have not known.' It is true that this abomination has become in your midst: you will strike the inhabitants of this city with the sword... And it shall be an everlasting hill, it shall not be built again... because you shall obey the voice of the Lord your God to keep all your commandments which I command you today to do what is right in the sight of the Lord your God.
If a person said that would you choose them as a friend?
The "scientific" reasoning for the existence of a Creator includes an internal contradiction.
There is no problem with faith, but there is a problem. In the dire need to prove his existence - b. in the so-called scientific use of proving its existence.
The conclusion that God exists and therefore one must fulfill three of his commandments reduces the number in the counter a little, doesn't it?
It raises the question that people who oppose religion so strongly and its ways of working support the very same ways when it serves their purpose (see Mr. Yadan's entry and his movement)
The truth is that I am at the other extreme and, according to the responses I have read here, you need to rummage carefully to find a difference in methods.
In my humble opinion, the whole trend of the article or as reflected in it to many here on the site is disdain for people, many of whom surprisingly, in addition to being believers, are also scientists at the highest levels and know your claims.
As for a number of responses that were written here only show a lack of knowledge about various currents in the public that defines itself as religious.
When people think that all the truth is with them then the problem begins! That people want to "save" people from ignorance by denying the opinions of others because they are the right ones and they have a monopoly on science! A person needs to examine himself carefully.
And my father, as my predecessors said, a great and special website that will only stay that way, it just makes me smile a little that a website that deals with science, the article that received the most comments is a philosophical article (at least from the time I started reading articles on the site).
P.S. What do people want from the poor rabbit that they should go and check on Givat Watershape, does it do much more than raising grass or is it a rabbit?
So there are people who love this genre and are drawn to it. We, like, don't like to watch a movie or a play?, visit a museum?, read a book?
Each person has his own taste. Zamir Cohen just delivers the goods. He is a good player. Gives viewers a fascinating three quarters of an hour. The prophets did the same in the market squares and the priests in the temple. We gave a show and charged a fee.
Me, personally, this show is boring, so I don't go to it. But if I had this special genetic load, the garden of the believers which is the complement of the garden of the priests, I would not have come here to respond at all, but I would have caressed hamsot or kissed stones. . .
In short: N, Nah, Naham, it's nice that they haven't censored the internet yet - in the meantime
What is beautiful is that we really have no idea what the truth is, what is true and what is not.
The fact that the mechanism of the converts is like this, does not change anything about the nature of God if he does exist. Our opinion doesn't really matter. You can read or not read the beautiful article above and the comments, and it still won't change anything in terms of the truth itself
Avi Blizovsky get a khich
It turns out that you came up with a winning formula for increasing the ratings
Of course you can justify yourself and say that all you mean is for heaven's sake/science/spaghetti...
The purity is in place and the ratings will continue to rise and increase profits despite the org.il suffix
As usual, it was instructive to read most of the comments (although the word instructive is reserved for the ultra-orthodox education system according to Michael, but I hope we have finally agreed that it is a system... education...)
Hugin - Esht Hail and Raeda, second and third, and each time a different layer appears in almost every one of your sentences/guessings
It seems to me that the debate will not end, it will end soon. (I hope that Mr. Yushobiev will support this),
To Eli Omariko and the rest of the knitters more or less - to all of us, the mind precedes and knows me.
Happy and sweet new year to everyone.
And maybe it would all end in a huff
Hugin and Monin.. of Odin..
Thank you for your attention
Admiring the amount of tolerant electricity you have in the battery.
Trying to estimate the weight of all the stubborn ones above.
Had all this been written with a quill dipped in ink on a parchment scroll.
Do you think they would have soaked the script in the water of Eden?
And water the whole herd with them, what do you think?
What a breath of paradise it was, a row full of respect and brotherhood.
Thanks for the clarification, I admit I didn't read all 144 comments to the end...
This does not change my final point that an article that combats the phenomenon of being taken out of context should come with a placeholder.
Elad, you probably missed what I wrote in response number 130 - Rashi is the one who interpreted the term "stomach pinch" as "nafiha".
Just for an example, I found the entire story of the betrayal you were referring to, in Bamadbar XNUMX (the entire chapter)
A strange religious ceremony is described there, but to say that: "...and there was a woman who was defiled and overflowed with water, and the bitter waters came into her, and her stomach was pressed and her thigh fell..." (v. XNUMX) indicates with certainty that she needs to fart can be considered out of context, unless It has some meaning that says it more clearly...
Good Day.
Amnon A completely legitimate article on a science website, even if a bit venomous...
One of the things that bothered me is that you are using the method of converts regarding the sources of your stuff. The religious people like very much to use quotes without giving their exact source so that we cannot open it ourselves and check.
Not writing the exact source (book, chapter, verse or page and page or whatever) made the article a little less serious in my opinion.
You claim that there are scientific errors in the Torah (rightly so), write down something that goes beyond the "Sages in the Mishna asserted X". If you write down that they said this in tractate Hagiga, page XNUMX, it will be much more convincing.
Let us judge for ourselves and attach sources to your quotes! If you could write here or publish another article about errors in the Torah with a list of sources, I would be very grateful.
It was a bit strange to see that precisely in your example from "Aia Pluto" you were completely specific and indicated exactly where things were listed.
Thanks in advance, Elad
I didn't know that theology was a field
Eli.R
I have no idea.
It's not something you control. Like I said, it's the North.
Depends on the stimuli scheduled in life, priorities and delegation of actions in life, human relations in general.
You may not understand in the meantime, that the high-speed schedules (similar attracts similar..etc..) to the North biorhythm
Ticking like a cosmic clock, we are all unknowingly in this matter, and in the other matters, which are no less important.
A local is also trying to say that all the representations of the ancient tribes of Israel are currently represented on the site, Zeman
Bottleneck (paramedial apical). This is Israel's code - after all.
What is needed now is internalization, inclusion, recognition, and a person's life is whatever they are." Everything is North and the Authority
Given - or conditional".
That's it, for now
Hugin Tu Elul 15.9.2008 - XNUMX
Hugin,
Are you saying that if I just stop responding then....it will stop???
Oops !!!
Eli.R
Michael has an important role in the campaign (Emergadon).. We are recreating the history in our veins
Except, this time in a virtual-thought way. All the characters are real and everyone is in their place. It's not for nothing. And look, no one apparently said to you: "Come join", and yet you are here, out of your own need and your inner self.. Think about it.
And time will tell.
Why can't we be all friends?
Come on, maybe stop it, it's really blowing out of all proportion...
To Michael
I don't intend to continue fighting in this kind of fruitless debate because first you cursed me in the name of rabbi and secondly you didn't answer my questions, for example did you read the book about Einstein before you called its author a fool..
Secondly, despite the fact that I explained to you on two different occasions the difference between the Torah and the Gemara from which the quotations "the division of the trachea into 3, the number of chambers of the heart, the length of gestation of animals" are cited, you repeat the same arguments like a parrot.
Open the term "Gemara" and you will learn the differences.
And regarding my knowledge in theology, I am a former religious person and currently a philosophy enthusiast, so it does not seem to me that you can "compete" with me in this field.
In addition, even if you don't call the god of hypnosis by God, it still doesn't change the fact that you are a believer, you can also call it "Bamba Osem" from me but you admit the existence of God.
In conclusion, if anyone among us is similar to the Panchayats at the level of debate, it is you.
Higgs
I did read your other comments, and in my opinion and noticed, you have much more than the little new-nesses
that you screw me here and there. In my opinion, you understand a very serious matter. At least know my opinion about you.
In appreciation.
Hugin
Higgs:
It turns out that you are indeed right.
But it's possible that behind all this... I won't repeat the natural word so much, the whole truth is hidden
that humanity has been striving for for ages.
Maybe you will find the required answer, it is said in "Graphs".. and then we will finally understand the theory as well
The strings..who knows where we headed...
What is important of course, and of course, that it is given scientific terminology, if only for the sake of good order. This is important.
Hagit
Thanks again, for the accurate addition for the sake of macabre humor of the "Chronicles" summaries to "Yaden"
And in this divine-scientific comedy.. of course we will continue.. well. :) we hope.
Daniel:
I actually went through most of Einstein's writings and I can assure you that the quotes I gave characterize his opinion and that he never (except for a very short period in his childhood) did not believe in God.
Your words are simply a typical lie of the rabbis.
I have no problem with people who believe in Spinoza's god.
I just don't call this God by the name God because he is the complete opposite of the God of religions. I also believe in this "god".
Instead of classifying me as having no knowledge of theology (giving marks - also a typical method for people who have nothing to say), maybe try to point out some theological "knowledge" that you have and I don't.
It's not for nothing that you cite the law "Honor your father and your mother" as an example of religious morality.
With the same degree of success, you will be able to bring "You shall not kill".
You know I will not oppose these laws because you know I know they are good even though I am not religious.
I would advocate for them even if religion did not exist in the world because, as I have mentioned many times, man has a natural sense of morality.
Of course, for the same reason you did not bring as an example the law "murder the gay" because it is clear to you that any person with an inner sense of morality will oppose the morality of this law.
I see the explanation about the rabbit and the rabbit as evasion for its own sake. The "interpretation" of the words in a different way is the regular way of the supporters of the religion wherever they are - as if God did not know how to express himself and needs interpretations.
And what about the splitting of the trachea into 3, the number of chambers of the heart, the length of pregnancy of animals and countless other examples?
Knows what?
Get off me!
Hugin and Monin.. of Odin..
This is then the meaning of blasphemy
In the passage "Nesha" it is written that if a woman's thigh falls or her stomach pinches, it is a sign that she is impure. Rashi interpreted the term "squeezing the stomach" as "puffing" and this is probably where the origin of farting comes from.
America:
No. The examples I referred to are the moral distortions of the religion such as the commandment to kill those who chop wood on Shabbat or the homosexual.
I listed a few more examples in my response to Eli.R (number 117) and I also suggested that you expand the canvas significantly using Yaron Yadan's book - "Religion Rises on Its Creators".
As one - I also feel that I have a free choice.
I don't know exactly its origin.
The well-known mathematician - Roger Penrose, attributes it in two of his books - Shadows of the mind and The Emperor's new Mind - to the uncertainty principle, but his claim seems unfounded to me.
With regard to the principle of uncertainty - it can almost be said that the opposite of your understanding is correct: it actually refers to the impossibility of the observer to predict the results of the experiment on an individual level (and yet predict them accurately on a statistical level).
One of the interesting things about the uncertainty principle is that its correctness is probably one of the most certain things in quantum theory and it is expressed, among other things, at the level of the single electron, which is actually understood very well (at least in the sense of being able to predict the results of experiments - but again - at the statistical level).
The skeptical observer is not neutral
We are working. Watch and wait.
Hugin :)
To Michael
Allow me to disagree that you went through all of Einstein's writings and from them you concluded that he blasphemed God, also before you call the writer a fool it is appropriate to read his story and bring arguments that he deserves to be called a fool in addition Einstein changed his mind several times during his lifetime and not only theologically But even from a scientific point of view, therefore, while you can quote that he does not believe in God, I can quote that he does not deny his existence.
In connection with the question of free will, read articles by philosophers Foucault for example and you will understand how free will is not even for a secular person.
Unfortunately, while you hold scientific knowledge, your weakness in the theological field screams, also in every debate of this kind there are the sages who ask why God did not record that there were dinosaurs, etc. The answer to this question would be if God wanted to download the Hebrew encyclopedia then they would no longer read this book And only chapter 1 is dedicated to him!!! to the story of creation.
Regarding your claim that AA is not religious and also rational when you are a religious interpreter you usually think of an ultra-Orthodox person (as is often reflected in your answer) who is ignorant and ignorant but people can accept God according to Schifnoza's concept and still be considered religious.
Most of the contradictions you bring up like the holocaust can be solved by hiding your face.
Regarding the morality of the religion, refer to the Rambam's writings regarding commandments whose meaning we do not know compared to commandments whose meaning we do know, for example, honor your parents and your mother.
Regarding the rabbit and the rabbit, when you attack religion, you understand arguments, but according to the same rabbi who wrote "It is not acceptable to me", please explain your reasons and enlighten our eyes, why not?
In conclusion, I don't think 1+1=2, but neither does x=L, therefore it is appropriate to leave science out of faith and vice versa.
Michael
Are my questions interpreted as an accusation? Or maybe checking directions on all levels?
I really want to understand the being guiding you.
By the way, is your special brain also accompanied by dreaming? I once knew one of the great "titans" (not in a legend - living and breathing like you and me) he had no dreaming system at all but a huge brain. Are you his type?
Once again, I will wish you the truth and only the truth in the scientific way that is special to you. Maybe a little flexibility..tip-tip. For the sake of good order, without harming the "altruistic-genetic-north" and signed.
Hugin :)
Michael Omariko Hogin Mogin
are you retired Or just wasting time having fun?
Michael,
When you talk about the examples, I assume you mean the child who repents and someone consoles himself with that "at least he won't turn to crime", and the child who repents "even though his mother enrolled him in a basketball club". Well, I didn't respond because we agree on the above two examples.
The world I believe in, as a system, is indeed devoid of free choice. However, I "feel" that I have free choice. As a system, every decision I make/will make is a direct and accurate product of circumstances, but for me the decision is mine. That's how I feel. And I enjoy feeling that way, so I won't fight it. There is the rationale, and there is the emotion. Do you believe in free will?
The uncertainty principle of quantum theory, as far as I know, holds when there is an observer in the system. That is, it is the presence of the observer in the system that makes it uncertain. Even if I am wrong, I still believe that all systems are deterministic, and man has not yet reached the ability to understand things deeply at the levels of the single electron.
Hugin:
First of all, there is nothing "destructive" about advancing science.
In the meantime science has proven itself to be the most productive human enterprise so all your blame is really misplaced.
On a personal level, as I have explained here many times and as I detailed to you even more in a phone call, I strive to understand the truth in every field where this is possible.
To that end I must reject everything that is proven to be unreal - this is the destruction of the harmful for the purpose of building the beneficial and not destruction for its own sake.
The onslaught of clerics and new age on science is the real act of destruction, just as the appropriation of the achievements of science by religion is the real blasphemy.
America:
The world you believe in is devoid of free choice and therefore - completely devoid of morality.
The truth is that there is probably much less determinism in nature than you believe, thanks to the uncertainty principle of quantum theory.
If I wanted to explain where God could fit in, I would place him precisely in the "lotteries" of the quantum events, but, as mentioned, I don't think this has any practical meaning.
You are, in fact, cutting off your moral theory from God and relying on men.
This is a good start, but why not go one step further and allow the system of moral laws to develop as science allows for scientific knowledge?
Basing the moral system on religion ossifies it and prevents the application of the lessons we learn with the development of culture and scientific knowledge.
As mentioned - Judaism's system of moral laws is - in today's terms - simply terrible and outrageous.
You did not refer to the examples I brought to illustrate the point. why?
Michael
You tend to emphasize the "rationale" and the "science". You reply to everyone with a principled debate, but are you able, able to specify where your rationale leads? Where to where in which direction? Because until now
In fact, you responded to the articles and talkbackists, you did not mention an aspiration for some longer-term plan.
In the meantime, I only see an attempt to defeat others, but I do not see a further goal (even in an accelerator, barely
You were among the respondents.).
Well.. then everyone will be rational, okay, where??? Do you first have to prove the super-symmetry theory? The experiment, to discover.. in the accelerator.. where your logic strives, what pushes it??
If you have an internal answer to this, something productive, creative and not destructive: it will be interesting to understand you.
Even if not everyone understands what is happening on this site and everyone is still a part of their inner puzzle, time will tell
And we will continue with the following articles... maybe that's where the "transformation cipher" lies.. later...
So up to 120 at this point
Hugin
Dear Michael,
I believe in determinism. I believe that the universe is an equation and at any given moment there is one and only solution to the equation that could theoretically be predicted at any point in time. God's part of the story is that he determined the value of the variables and their interrelationships in the beginning, and of course he knew their results at every moment.
Of course, this is not the traditional approach, but everyone believes in their own way. Forgive me for the cheap comparison, but things can be looked at like the 'Matrix'. The rules in the software (=the universe) are predetermined. We all play by them. We invent technology based on them. We are bound by them. But God can occasionally intervene a little. He can create dozens of individual atoms out of nothing, which in 250 years will play a decisive role in the formation of a terrible Viking whose consequences are fateful for humanity. Of course this theory is not perfect. Of course, that's where the matter of "free choice" comes in, and the meaning it has or doesn't have. I have no definite answers, and the whole thing is part of a hypothesis. But I admit my pettiness - I don't have an unequivocal answer. I can't say - I know there is a God. I say I tend to believe there is a God. This is my feeling. But on the other hand, I think it is arrogance that comes from the mouths of those who say that they know there is no God. I would accept their opinion if they said that the probability that God exists is small in their opinion.
Were all the commandments given by God? Of course not. Man intervened all the time, and spoke in God's name from time immemorial. However, I still believe that doing some of them can keep us alive as a society. Of course, you always need a system of checks and balances, and never blindly follow Man Dhu's interpretation. Let's take the road as an example - when you're driving at 3 in the morning and you reach a completely empty intersection, a red light, will you stop? I suppose so. why? Because this law protects you on a daily basis and you see fit to keep it, perhaps even as an educational act, so as not to get used to bad habits. This is how I look at all kinds of mitzvot, so to speak, you can say - I don't need it. You can say - I don't need to sing to my wife "Eshte Hail" every Shabbat and thank her for being a help against me, because I appreciate her, and she knows it. But it is the care that reminds us. This is the importance of laws. If there are no rules, eventually all conventions are broken. It may not be pleasant to think of it this way, but we are not determined enough to keep our conventions, and when things are formulated in laws, they are kept for a long time. A side note - of course there are commandments that I personally do not accept - the use of animals for the purpose of "atonement", the prohibition of homosexual relations and the like. But I emphasize again, all sides must be seen, and the middle way must be found.
America:
Indeed there is no way to prove or disprove the god you believe in. A God who allows the world to exist according to the laws of nature and does not interfere will not affect the results of any experiment differently than his absence.
In other words - this is a God that is not relevant to our lives because if he were relevant the world would be different in something thanks to his intervention and this something could be discovered experimentally.
In this sense, his situation is like that of the teacup sailing in some orbit around the earth.
The question is, then, why believe him.
Ockham's Razor says it is redundant.
I think it was Laplace who said that he did not need this assumption in his equations.
The point is that the god you believe in is more than the one you described because your faith in him leads you to observe the religious commandments.
Do you think these commandments were given by God?
If so, why bother to wrap them in false claims about reality?
Do these commandments seem moral to you? See my response to Eli.R in this regard. In my eyes, religious commandments are as far from morality as east is from west. In fact, religion commands us to overcome the natural morality we have built in favor of an archaic and clearly immoral system of laws.
In this context, I recommend you to read Yaron Yedan's book: "Religion Rises on Its Creators".
There are, as mentioned, many types of secularism and many of them are indeed perverse. It says nothing about the types of secularism that are not like that.
It reminds me of the typical argument between a parent who laments that his child has been captured by religion and a "friend" who "comforts" him by saying "what do you want, it's better than devolving into crime" - as if the alternative to repentance is degenerating into crime.
The state education system in Israel has indeed gone bankrupt. There are many reasons for this and the theft of budgets by the ultra-orthodox training institutions is not the least of them. Even the fact that, despite their "secularity", the state schools devote time to studying creationism (in the Torah version) does not contribute to their quality.
The education system does not teach students rational thinking skills and therefore its graduates are exposed to religious, postmodernist and New Age brainwashing.
Materialism is indeed part of the matter.
I once participated in a talkback that broke out following an article about the Breslavites who caused boys in Holon to become estranged from their families.
The two sides in the debate were, of course, the side of the parents whose children were "kidnapped" and the side of the terrorists who justified the kidnapping.
Naturally, I supported my parents, but I really refrained from "indulging" them as well.
One of the mothers there said something along the lines of: "I don't understand how my child was dragged into repentance! I gave him everything he wanted! Even when he wanted to enroll in basketball in high school, I agreed!"
Because of the side I took in the debate, it really hurt me to be deterred by her answer like: "Tell me, do you really think that a basketball will give a child an answer to the questions that really concern him, such as, for example, the purpose of life? - What a wonder he was drawn to religion! She at least addresses the essential questions! Although her answers are false and dangerous, the child's thirst for an answer, combined with his lack of training for critical thinking, causes him to accept any answer - no matter how wrong it is!"
And that is the problem.
The secular education system needs a comprehensive reform - especially one that will train people for rational thinking.
A graduate of the education system should know the meaning of the word "know".
Therefore, a revolution is needed in the field of state education, but the retreat to religious taming is not the necessary revolution.
At the time, I wrote a letter about it to Yuli Tamir and her assistants, but - you know - politicians...
Dear Michael,
First of all I would like to point out that I really appreciate you for your generally to-the-point response.
Regarding your first sentence - yes, even though I have faith in God, I consider myself a rationalist. do you love? What rationale stands behind this emotion? Indeed, love can be explained as a creature that preserves the survival of the species. However, when you look at your child/wife, do you usually think about the rationale behind this feeling? I guess not. I surrender to him. The same when I hear a good joke. I know that there is a survival aspect in the dynamic of people laughing with each other, and yet - I surrender to the pleasure of laughing as if it were completely without sense and rationality.
If I said that the religious rule is approved, I take it back. -I- saw with my own eyes happiness in a religious family life like I had never seen before. Surely there are religious people who are not happy. Surely there are happy secularists. However, as a society - desperation, bitterness, cynicism and the loss of integrity are rampant precisely in the secular society.
You are right, there is no such thing as the secular lifestyle. Truth. However, as a society, the secular public is a sick public (in my opinion). Although there are valuable people in this public - the general atmosphere that prevails among us is a self-interested atmosphere, a focus on purely personal success, etc. In the past, the secular public was a public to be proud of. There were values, there was Zionism, there was community life, love of land. But all values are lost. And so, as far as I'm concerned, secularism has failed.
True, the life of a religious person is bound by laws. But on the other hand, what's wrong with that? In order to maintain my health, do I not observe certain 'rules' that I have defined for myself? I do sports with a certain frequency, I eat a certain way, and I make sure to pass certain tests with a certain frequency. This is how I formulate social rules for myself - I am allowed to enjoy the sight of beautiful women, but I will not cheat on my wife. Etc. etc'. I believe that a person must put a framework for himself. When there is no frame, there is deterioration. Another agreement is broken, and another, and another. Thus, in fact, values have almost completely disappeared from the secular Israeli public in the last fifty years, while the national religious public has remained values. Just for information - in the national religious community the rate of criminal murder has been - hold tight - 0 percent in recent years. I can already predict the reaction to what I just said - there is a nationalist murder/murder of a prime minister. Again, I'm not advocating for anyone, and I'm not saying that the entire religious community has values. I say that in general, the method works.
And again, you must think that I'm a member of some seminaries and oh-too-too repentant, but that's not the case. I am a regular reader of the Hidan site, a die-hard MDB fan, I have all the issues of the mythological "Fantasy 2000", but I don't see a contradiction between the things.
Another thing I feel the need to say - I am not the wisest man as it seems, but there is one thing I can say with complete confidence - no one, but no one, can disprove the existence of God. Equally, no one can prove its existence. I believe (must point out- not with complete faith) that God created nature, the universe, energy and matter, gravity, electric attraction, etc., etc. Everything the scientists discover is true (for the most part, of course, with the exception of claims that will be disproved by future experiments). Therefore there are no scientific discoveries that contradict my faith.
Michael, I would appreciate your response.
Eli.R:
The explanation in the link is not acceptable to me, but if the topic does not seem important to you, I will not enter into this polemic - what is more, there are many other examples.
The subject I will dwell on is your view of the Torah as a source of moral authority and I will ask you a few introductory questions in this regard:
1. If the Torah does not accurately describe the natural world - what is the basis for the assumption that the moral world is correctly described in it? In general - how is "right" defined in this world? After all, if the Torah contains factual errors, it is impossible that it was written by God and therefore humans created it. How are they superior, for example, to me?
2. Does the Torah commandment to kill people just because they cut trees on Shabbat seem moral to you?
3. Do you think that the Torah commandment to kill homosexuals seems moral to you?
4. Does the prohibition of desecrating Shabbat for the purpose of saving a Gentile seem moral to you?
5. What do you think about the fact that the first genocide mentioned in human history is the one committed by the Israelites against the inhabitants of the land when they came to settle it after their journey in the desert, by God's commandment? If this is historical truth - it is terrible and terrible. If this is not a historical truth - it is doubly terrible because then it means that it was written to teach us how we should behave.
6. What do you think about a system of moral laws that one of its exemplary people banished his wife and son to dry in the desert and then - just like the madwoman from Beit Shemesh - went to slaughter his remaining son?
Of course, there is much more to say about this, but I think the message should be clear enough even so.
to Eli.R
So apparently you're both really intelligent and know how to compliment... and that's a really necessary commodity. Thank you on my behalf
And in the name of those who were ashamed....to a great extent...and deeply.
And as for the primordial issue of whether Planet Earth is the center..
Yes, in terms of life, that's why it is called Eretz = Arsh Hoya.
Everything (the bang? The "monster"? It all started at the sea of death = the ancient Dead Sea).
And time, to the point of abstraction..there is no end..a universe of galaxies which are chains of ancient dynasties and branches
Rabati..for long and forgotten ages until the very end..endless distance and cosmic feedback returns in the afterlife,
The distant other. Exhalation-inhalation multigalactic and cosmic in law: cosmic prisms = the worlds of delegating to expansion.. and re-contraction..
From the spiritual and metaphysical point of view: the sun, the center > its center to the heart of the Milky Way > the chain
extraterrestrial to galactic ramifications))) and feedback ((((((((
And so everyone comes out "right in the end". Depends on the chrono-synchronous aspect for the period and era.
In short: there is still time to be "good children", maybe also smart...etc.
Hugin: In the original name.
By the way Hogin and Monin.. of Odin..
I really enjoy your sense of humor, you really break the ice here and it's really necessary 🙂
Michael,
Sorry for the lack of response yesterday, I was just already tired...
Regarding any belief in the existence of a conflict between the Torah and science, I may, as you say, bury my head in the ground because for me the Torah has many more layers than meets the eye and precisely for me a religious life span is in line with my views.
So maybe there are contradictions between science and the Torah... Niha
So there are contradictions between the collection of legends of Rav Bar Hana's stories and reality...
The Torah is guidelines throughout a religious life and in this way I see it and its disruption to all those who try to show that the Torah has everything.
It is known that the sages also learned other wisdoms and they incorporated them in their words as well (such as the Rambam who believed that the earth is the center of the universe and everything revolves around it - a theory taken from the theory of Copernicus which was influenced by the church)
I don't exactly understand why I should live in conflict exactly.
And regarding the problem of the rabbit that ruminates, I remember that I came across an article by one of my lecturers at the Lev Institute, someone I greatly respect named Rabbi Professor Yehuda Levi, who was the rector of the Lev Institute, and he actually wrote something very interesting about the subject, and he published it in his Torah and Science book.
Of course I don't have the book on me at the moment...so I'll have to make do with the link.
http://www.thesanhedrin.org/he/daat/tshuvot3.htm
Perhaps we should return to more interesting topics and leave theological debates among ourselves to other places.
Shmulik the demagogue:
Tell me: so what in the end? Does the rabbit rummage or not?
And what about the rabbit? You try to "interpret" her as something else and that's fine, but to interpret her stomach pinching and her hip falling is not allowed?
I don't know where the author got the meaning "fart" from. I assume it's from the holy books but I didn't bother to find out because it's not important.
You, on the other hand, took this unimportant thing and made it the main thing.
If that's all you have to say then you have nothing to say.
Disappointed:
If you were serious, you would see that those who put forward any arguments - even the most stupid ones - received an answer from me.
You just said nothing but swearing.
Your first paragraph A is just a lie. Arguing is the basis of the persuasiveness of the rabbis. There is no logic in their words, but they know that their stupid audience is easy to incite, so this is the tool they often use.
The second section A just comes with claims that the author did not quote all the Holy Scriptures for all the contradictions within them.
The Torah says nonsense and then sages come and slyly pile on you for this nonsense is a collection of more nonsense until you get confused.
Section B (finally B!) is a warning nonsense that defines knowledge as a claim that is old enough.
I must inform you that you are also a child in the age of the racist claims of the Nazis.
Do you accept them because of this?
Stupid wonders!
In section C you make a meaningless statement without saying a single thing that justifies it or contradicts the author's words.
In response to your statement there is no need but to say that my cat understands better than you.
Section D is as silly as it is stupid. No one claimed to have proved there is no God. Although there is nothing that shows its existence and its situation in this matter is exactly like the situation of the flying spaghetti, but the author did not claim that it does not exist either. It's just not an interesting question. What is interesting is these things that have a connection with what can be observed, and if it can be observed that the rabbit does not rummage, then it is clear that the Torah was not written by someone who knows the rabbit.
If you say that someone is God then you (you! not me!) are saying that God does not know the rabbit.
The same goes for the other examples.
This God you want us to sanctify is ignorant and a psychopath and this according to the Torah.
bay:
well done! Don't let the facts change your mind.
If the Torah claims that the rabbit ruminates and the rabbit claims that it does not, then the Torah is correct. So what if it contradicts reality?!
you're the best!
Of course, these things are also for Ronnie.
The Torah cannot be understood.
You don't understand her either.
That's why you believe in her because what you can't understand you have to believe.
There are dementia patients who need a brain cell transplant from dopamine channels. Can I use yours? You don't use them.
hello spider,
This is already the beginning of reference. But not very serious.
Is it suddenly exhausting for you? After thousands of words you wrote and philosophized and bragged here? Really not buying it.
I do not "raise" difficulties. It is convenient for you to define it that way in order to avoid the need to answer truthfully. Since when are difficulties and claims difficulties? Science lives and breathes on proving and disproving them.
Be honest with yourself and start letting your thoughts work really "freely".
Unfortunately, a statement like "the burden of proof is on you" betrays you and the fact that the cell is biased towards prejudice, otherwise it presupposes that "there is no God" is the simpler thing. But your problem is that the situation is completely opposite.
Test yourself if you can internalize the following thought: the assumption that "there is a God" is the simplest assumption!! Think it through properly without immediately running off into an emotional cave. Yes, this is the simplest assumption and the simplest explanation for everything you see and live and breathe and give birth, etc. (I hope you are aware of the "abstraction" principle...) and if you keep thinking about it, it's such a basic principle that you don't move a micron without it. There is no law or scientific concept such as acceleration (Newton's laws) or momentum or energy (the laws of relativity) or heat (the laws of thermodynamics) and so on that does not come from the most basic assumption that something earlier created/caused/created what is in front of you (a principle known in Judaism as "cause and rotating"). You won't be able to avoid it because it's too basic!
And you probably have no logical reason to contradict it. The reasons for contradicting arise solely from uncomfortable consequences (obligations, commands, faith, etc.) of this assumption. And make no mistake, I am not lowering Judaism to this low basic level, it is worth much more than that. But at the level of scientific discussion, you certainly know the level of acceptance of all the most advanced theories and what are the scientific conditions required to confirm/disprove them.
Well, there is truth in what you said about the burden of proof. Indeed, the duty of proof is on the Almighty (this is in the case that He expects us to believe in Him, because if we don't, He does not "owe" us anything!) And indeed, the Almighty acknowledges this and very frequently links His demands from us with statements such as "I am the Lord who brought you forth From the land of Egypt" etc.
The Almighty shows us that He behaves towards us according to the extent of our understanding and therefore demands "And you knew this day... and return to your heart that the name is God" not blind faith, not groping in the dark after mindless whims, but a brave and penetrating investigation. Anyone who is even slightly familiar with the original Torah investigation literature quickly realizes that: a. We are not talking about idiots, but about people who deserve to have "a little" respect for their wisdom. B. There is no escaping here from openly and bravely confronting every question, difficulty, bewilderment and doubt.
Contempt for this can only come from a place of lack of knowledge and the fact that a person feeds on popular superficial distortions that make sure to feed him back and forth.
Really sit down with yourself and think boldly and freely about what you have read.
I am not talking now at all about types of Jews and methods of Judaism and such and such phenomena that exist on the street, not all of them faithfully represent the Torah and Hashem. You are invited to find your own personal truth in all this. Try to separate the source itself from external phenomena that depend more on the practice and less on the original intention.
You are welcome to use all the powers of your mind to find out in depth without distortions and cheap sayings. The question is, are you ready for it? It doesn't have to destroy everything you thought until now, avoiding it is much more destructive for you...
This is for now until the next serious responses.
Good Day!
post Scriptum. I really came to the site just to enjoy scientific information on a level like I'm used to finding here. You are doing well and keep going. If the website owner wants to introduce the scientific-religious polemic here (which in fact has nothing to do with Judaism at all and was only born by the church that persecutes and denies science) there is no problem. It is very nice and interesting to deal with it. It's just a shame that it was done out of disrespect and disrespectful language. It is appropriate that a polemic of sciences be carried out in the purest way.
disappointed
The "difficulties" you put up are so easy to answer, it's just exhausting to repeat it over and over again
I'll let people with more patience than I do copy paste.
But just so that you have something to sleep on: regarding the proof of the non-existence of God,
The burden of proof is on the one who claims that God exists,
The so-called smeller is the stinker
Michael
As they say, you didn't surprise me very much. You just proved to me that you and your ilk have no real ability to cope.
But you are probably very comfortable with the unscientific and disrespectful approach of the author of the article.
I still remain hopeful that there are other types of discussion partners.
Waiting for responses, thanks (it's not too late for me...)
My father Roy Michael
After all, what's so interesting about arguing with the shrill ignorant ignorant fringes.
The converts do not represent deep knowledge or a special understanding of the sources and their true meaning. All the arguments presented above do not even scratch the surface of the Torah's methodology.
The explanations and understandings brought by the pans are baseless "it's not even wrong" as Pauli once said.
Two basic principles lay the groundwork for many debates and arguments presented here.
1. Primary goal of the articles in the Talmud in the Kabbalah and the other sources: to create a complete disconnection between physical descriptions and features and various truths. Its truth is only true when brought and understood in its abstract form. It is not like this when there is a local physical affinity.
It's just like for the conservation laws they use lee groups. The use of bunches in quantum physics and the theory of relativity gave these theories their strength. Because in this way it is possible to look at a system independently of the mechanics, dimensions and other local conditions.
In all the issues that appear in the Shas, the following practice is followed: in order to prove a certain matter, sometimes quite unfounded examples are given from other cases that we have discussed. And one of the first goals of the exercise is to reach an abstraction from the local properties to the principle level in such a way that copy symmetries can be created just as it is in bundles that describe different topologies.
To summarize: anyone who relates the story of creation or other physical phenomena as an examination of truths or truths of how and how the world was created confuses the mind. There is no actual connection between the physical story and any truth that actually describes the unfolding of creation.
All physical descriptions constitute some kind of coding for this, but they are not the thing itself.
The Bible instructs again and again not to make a statue or image for you or in the prophet's explicit article
The book of Isaiah, chapter XNUMX - "And to whom shall you imagine me and I will marry"
This is especially emphasized over and over again in the various Zohar and Kabbalah books.
A well-known story about four who entered the orchard.
RA and his disciples said to them, "When you reach the stones of pure marble, do not say water water"
He warned them that there was danger in this because it was said "A liar will not stand before my eyes."
It means that at a certain place in the processes of abstraction you may see different geometric patterns in the state of transparent crystals. He instructs them to ignore all previous knowledge and experience and not to try in any way to apply to the sight of their eyes to say that it is water in the stagnation phase that according to this legality looks like this and acts like this. Rather, they must forget all previous knowledge and open their minds to completely new understandings.
2. The second principle means that every truth or argument must be brought to a state of equilibrium by various means of disassembly and assembly. Which is a combination of the collection of all extreme situations is better up to uncertainty. in such a way that it is possible to create the longest line of meaning. Meaning that the meaning will be the largest collection of possible connections. This matter is the source of the many disputes and debates that fill most of the pages of the Talmudic texts. If we use an example from quantum physics. It's as if we turned the particles back into their wave state. Moreover, it's as if the process is bidirectional. That is, collapse from a wave to a particle and reassembly and repeat.
There are many sources on this matter, in fact Rabbi Nachman of Breslav insisted on the matter even more strongly in his writings. In two articles in particular in his book "Baa el Pharoah" and "The move in a single way" and of course all his articles revolve around this matter.
If he had seen how his foolish followers are behaving today, it is not certain that he would have been so happy.
The latter represent quite a lot of the uneducated fringes who are content with songs and dances.
Of course there is no problem with that, but when it becomes the essence of everything and leaves the freedom to deepen and question and ask questions outside of that framework, it is exactly the opposite of the essence of Rabbi Nachman of Breslav.
And I just wanted to add that if you based your words on what is written in the Torah itself on the subject of deviance, it is not clear to me where you got the idea that "your belly is flat and your hips fall" means "to fart"...and what is the connection between water with mud and fart...it would have been true if the priest had let her drink amba or Bean Soup…
In short, it is clear that the way to prove the nullity of religion was accelerated for you, and you did not notice your embarrassing mistake in itself...
Guys.. I read the comments. My heart is moved by the magnitude of the nonsense that a considerable part of them are honored with. And now to the point:
Dafna, your words are absurd. What is the gist of your words? The "Torah" and "God" are sublime from us, we do not and will never have the abilities and tools to understand them. In other words, until I am given an explanation, I can see the word God as a jumble of meaningless letters. Like the next word: "Achiggk". If you actually defined these things that cannot be understood by human means, it is not for nothing that I suspect them because their entire content is their very definition!
Regarding the second nonsense. Did you carry out a comprehensive investigation about our dear friend Amnon Carmel, and his channels of knowledge in areas that contradict his views? Or is this a reflexive response without real thought?
"A threatened person trying to defend himself"(?!) Oh..oh my..really threatened. We are all shaking with fear. Our teeth are burning with worry about what will be done to us on the day of judgment... Spare us this cheap psychology. The only thing threatened here is logic, which Zamir Cohen the charlatan and a friend of his crooked people deceive at every opportunity. The demagogue in Grosh Helza uses worn out and outdated strategies to sway a herd of opinionless scumbags after him, who in my opinion, with a little more motivation, could easily convince them to bring him their money and their wives as well. We have already crossed the red line.
Regarding clinical death. As you know, this medical condition occurs when the brain continues to function, but the heart stops working. Or according to Wikipedia:
"Clinical death is a temporary state in which the heart stops beating and supplying blood and oxygen to the brain, but the brain tissue is still alive."
Therefore, in a world where the religions that advocate the next world and other vanities dominate the majority of the world's population, it is not impossible that near their death people will imagine the nonsense that feeds them all their lives. By the way, here are some interesting explanations on the subject:
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3383428,00.html
Regarding reincarnations I see no need to comment. It's a shame to lower the level further.
You will save your spiritual experiences from us. We've heard enough nonsense for today.
Hugin and Monin.. of Odin..
If I understand you correctly, and if I may, I do not think that there can be conditions that can justify a lack of response, or a failure to bargain, and especially when there is a real, immediate, and proper need to put things in their place.
I read the above article until I came to the title "Embarrassing mistakes" and the paragraph after it. The ignorance about farts that the author of the article revealed is the most embarrassing mistake here. Add to that his oath at the end of the paragraph "I swear to you that I am not making this up.
You are welcome to look at the perverted tractate and come up with the quote related to farting and present it to the people and the world, or simply apologize for your ignorance.
I am not entering into a debate here as to whether the Torah is the true Torah or not, but a side that dismisses the other side as ignorant,
He does this while showing his own ignorance, and on this the Sages said "the ignorant" all the disbelievers - in their own way disobeys.
Here is a link to the tract... Please find the link to the smelly fart you pulled out of your mouth "for the benefit of all of us"...http://kodesh.snunit.k12.il/b/h/h35.htm
disappointed:
Your ramblings are not worthy of scientific responses.
Well, it's late, maybe that's why.
Hugin:
First of all, I object to the phrase "with pure honesty and sincerity that you may not have known in the days of your age."
I think I'm honest and so are you.
Yes, also direct from you.
If you claim that I'm missing something - then point it out.
Otherwise, to me, it is a meaningless statement.
Dear Mr. Carmel, in your long and elaborate article you have proven that either you are not a scientist at all or that the thrill of the "holy war" among the converts has made you lose your scientism. Let's see if you can really handle it!! (mainly within yourself) with the following points to think about:
A. First of all, the very argumentative and condescending style indicates you more than any other evidence that you yourself are just "returning", only that in your case "returning with a question" and therefore all ways are kosher. Suddenly now there is no need for an in-depth and respectful discussion. Once here you can throw unsettled and untested flowers. And the main thing - to talk in a dirty and disgusting way that does not respect any scientist worthy of his name. A statement like "fart" is so low and I don't remember it being mentioned in any Jewish source. Yes, just disgusting!
A. And if we are talking about the "perverted woman" issue. It is very suspicious that you really did not reveal to your readers that you really respect the exact details. It's not that hard to find them. And you don't call it "awkward"? Torah literature is full of discussions and investigations on the subject. Who is really confused here? What about the fact that the Sages were amazed that G-d orders His name to be revived in these waters? What about the fact that if the woman is not defiled then on the contrary, she sows a blessed seed? How about taking it a little seriously? It's too hard for your scientific mind, heavy on you…
B. On the subject of the round world, you based your claims on the chronological "fact" that the Zohar was written after the time of the Greeks. there is! We found a contradiction, how fun it is for us... If you're already bothering to browse and present "Jewish" information, how about researching a little what the Zohar is, what period it belongs to, etc.? Have you ever heard of hidden wisdoms that were passed on by individuals by word of mouth until it was decided to publish them in writing? You obviously underestimate all of this. You have no respect for such information, even though you are only a small child years in front of him, but you have the arrogance to be picky and choose which knowledge to refer to and which not to, a scientist we said??
third. Know that you will be asked such trite questions that standard OT children (who know much more than you in the field of your essential heritage, or perhaps you also deny it) already know the answer to them. Listen, anyone who would reveal the almost infinite wealth of original Jewish scholarship is really laughing at you. You only manage to confuse those who know nothing about (their) Torah Israel and have been fed poor crumbs whose mass is negligible since childhood. I'm sure that between yourselves you understand that what you are doing is a "war for..." and not a matter-of-fact and fair inquiry, because otherwise you would take care of yourself to find answers that are not difficult to find for the problems you raised. You're just not into it.
d. Look, dear scientist, have you already managed to prove that "there is no God" and that the world "was not created"? Because I didn't notice where this proof is in your words. And if it hasn't been proven yet, how does everything you claim based on the above assumptions depend on it. For example, if it turns out that "there is God" (oops) what will you do with the ridiculous story of the book "Aya Pluto"? This is indeed a wonderful gloss that is very reassuring to those who are convinced of what has never been proven, but what is there in it to seriously contradict the content and meaning of ancient writings that are widely accepted by a wide group of people that at the time they were written you were not even a plasma? You will say strongly and rightly "but you didn't prove it either!!!" And I will answer you that firstly - this is the simplest logical option (I don't know many scientists who believe that the computer they write their articles on was not "created by a knowing and working creator") and secondly, it is true, I also do not base my faith in the Creator on scientific proof, simply Because the Creator doesn't really owe it to me and it is His full "right" to continue to hide Himself and His intentions (does such an attitude immediately reduce me to the level of primitive-ignorant-puzzling...?). And yet I never stop respecting science, which is very important to me as a way to realize my existence in the world and to enjoy more and more amazing discoveries of "doing Genesis".
Unfortunately, your inability to stand in front of such a big puzzle with all your educated scientific means and investigate it without arrogance, contempt, and a "me and zero more" approach does not leave me with much admiration and impression of your science.
Happily, as the history of the people of Israel has proven, which is unnatural in itself (not that it is impossible to ignore it if you really want to, because you always give room to those who choose to make a mistake), that the words of the prophet are fulfilled, "for the eternity of Israel will not lie nor be comforted, for no man is to be comforted" And we sit and see with pleasure the words of the prophets come true and we have rest and a place to continue sitting on Father's broad shoulders, typing on the computer and asking the passers-by "Have you seen Father?"
I would love to hear "scientific" comments
Roni:
Your words are not true and much has been written about the lie that in all the gibberish the letters are skipped.
An annoyed regular reader:
Do you read all the articles?
Why don't you skip what doesn't interest you?
Why are you commenting after leaving the site?
To read:
By the way - it's really not worth it (and certainly not to the point) - but it's already spilled milk.
So does the rabbit rummage or not?
Davidya:
You live in your own world where, for example, there is a way of life defined as "secularism".
This is nonsense and I explained it in previous comments.
Therefore, your claims that "secularism" has contradictions are similar to the claim that not smoking drugs has contradictions. Simply in B.L.T.
The motives you bring up as causes of repentance or questioning certainly exist here and there, but in my opinion (and like you - I have no real statistical information on the matter and therefore, like you, I do not release statements that I cannot substantiate) they are not the motives of most people. In any case, there is no connection between psychological motives and the truth, so the question still arises as to whether the rabbit is ruminating.
To the dear Michael no less
You are fighting a losing battle. You require the religious to give up the main part of their faith, to decide that they were wrong about everything and they won't do it. This is their old paradigm. Repeating a question is done differently. You have to find something they can't live with. Every man and his problem.
The one - the rabbit does not bring up rumination, the second - disapproval of the story of the Holocaust, the third - the destruction of men, women and children by the Amalekites, after - the existence of the world for over 6000 years. and so'.
But they won't admit to you that they were convinced. The system that controls them is well oiled. In families where one of their sons came back with a question, it is difficult for girls to get a good match. Livelihood will be affected. Donations will not be given to them. And they live a lot on donations.
I remember two sisters from Bnei Brak who enlisted in the army and there was no rest around them and their family until they both committed suicide. My client hinted to me that he could not repeat the question because it would destroy his business and his children. The religious can be cruel. Therefore, the repetition of the question cannot be evaluated above the pages of science except with four eyes. Even if you convinced one of them today, he won't admit it.
And by the way, the religious do not believe in the kosher of the converts and almost always marry them among themselves. Have you seen a desperate penitent, I have. She approached her father and said to him: - "Dad, it's very difficult for me!", and her father did not hold back and answered her: - "However difficult it may be for you? You are a 27-year-old girl, pregnant, with eight children." The poor thing was in a cycle of stupidity without being able to escape. If one of the readers who is thinking of repenting reads these things, she might think twice. Another has repented and is waiting for a match. I told her that she would never get a good match because she had a case of severe violence in her family. What matchmaker would be willing to risk his credibility in a wedding. She is assigned. She was quite surprised by my reaction.
All the stories I told here are painful and true.
That's why Michael, you said yours, they will never admit in life that you are right, they have too much to lose. Repeating the question, they told me this with four eyes.
If you feel like it, leave a phone number where they can talk to you face to face. Then you can see that you may have convinced someone after all. But you may be harassed, so be careful.
In a few minutes my father will come out with new articles, it is better if you go there and respond to your interesting comments.
So all good
Sabdarmish Yehuda
Yehoida:
you rattled
Some of your words (regarding the bequeathing of science to the world) have already been answered in my previous comments and another part (regarding morality) as well.
Daniel:
An answer to some of your words appears in my response to Umeriko.
One of the interesting things is that when it turns out that what is written in the Torah is a lie, religious people have no problem "interpreting" it as if the one who wrote it (God!) did not know how to express himself.
This is how they also allow themselves to "interpret" Einstein's words.
Anyone who knows anything about Einstein knows that he was as religious as a can of corn.
Not only was he not religious - he also did not believe in God intervening in what was happening in the world.
Below are several quotes (from his words and not from the words of an idiot commentator):
The idea of a Being who interferes with the sequence of events in the world is absolutely impossible. [Albert Einstein]
The man who is thoroughly convinced of the universal operation of the law of causation cannot for a moment entertain the idea of a being who interferes in the course of events... He has no use for the religion of fear and equally little for social or moral religion . [Albert Einstein, Ideas and Opinions]
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world as far as our science can reveal it. [Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press]
The more a man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events the firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature. For him neither the rule of human nor the rule of divine will exist as an independent cause of natural events. To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with natural events could never be refuted, in the real sense, by science, for this doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot. But I am convinced that such behavior on the part of representatives of religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal. For a doctrine which is to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress. In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vast power in the hands of priests. In their labors they will have to avail themselves of those forces which are capable of cultivating the Good, the True, and the Beautiful in humanity itself. This is, to be sure a more difficult but an incomparably more worthy task... [Albert Einstein, Science, Philosophy, and Religion, A Symposium, published by the Conference on Science, Philosophy and Religion in Their Relation to the Democratic Way of Life, Inc., New York, 1941]
The idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I am unable to take seriously. [Albert Einstein, letter to Hoffman and Dukas, 1946]
If this being is omnipotent, then every occurrence, including every human action, every human thought, and every human feeling and aspiration is also His work; how is it possible to think of holding men responsible for their deeds and thoughts before such an almighty being? In giving out punishment and rewards He would to a certain extent be passing judgment on Himself. How can this be combined with the goodness and righteousness ascribed to Him? [Albert Einstein, Out of My Later Years]
The religious feeling engendered by experiencing the logical comprehensibility of profound interrelations is of a somewhat different sort from the feeling that one usually calls religious. It is more a feeling of awe at the scheme that is manifested in the material universe. It does not lead us to take the step of fashioning a god-like being in our own image-a personage who makes demands of us and who takes an interest in us as individuals. There is in this neither a will nor a goal, nor a must, but only sheer being. For this reason, people of our type see in morality a purely human matter, albeit the most important in the human sphere. [Albert Einstein, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press, pp 69-70]
There are some problems with all the counter-arguments. You can find answers and discussions of the 2 sides on many websites. There are arguments here and there. Some of the answers certainly make sense regarding the bee and honey, the chemical cluster, the splitting of the continents, and more. Not everything is absolute and final. It's not black and white By the way... I also came across a piece of news that quite surprised me, regarding the splitting of the continents and I would be happy if someone here has an answer as to how they knew about it. This topic is quite intriguing...
Michael
I have a completely egoistic interest, which remains the opposite of every argument, even the most logical one presented here. There is no greater expert than you in the field. You are the pinnacle we need in order to survive in the company.
And yet with pure honesty and sincerity that you may not have known before in the days of your rust, I say to you: You are a heavy victim
of your mind
I imagine that others on the site also see and recognize your special quality.
The question is, if you are not missing something more important and expensive at this time - and of course the consideration is in your hands.
I don't mean that you should go to another extreme, but for a moment look at your own inner mirror
And remember, something that you were a part of by virtue of rolling and rolling fate.
There is no formula, (and perhaps there is one) for this matter you will have to check on your own strength only. Otherwise it will have no value. And especially when it is about you - really really you (as we got to know you on the website).
With whispers of deep respect for your being.
Hugin
America:
You consider yourself a rationalist but you are not.
Religion is based on a collection of claims, many of which are false.
You say - ok - then I will choose the ones I like.
How about improving the strategy and choosing the claims that seem to you from the whole range of possible claims and not just from religion? This is how a true rationalist behaves.
If you also act like this, then in fact religion does not play any role in your life.
The fact that there are converts who know, in other contexts, how to use logic, but in general - as scientific knowledge increases, the level of faith decreases.
You are welcome to see it at the following link:
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html
I can also provide a link showing the correlation between religiosity and poverty, but you did not raise this point.
Are you saying that the religious are happy?
I will say a few things about it:
First of all - drug addicts are also happy. It is not for nothing that religion has been compared to opium for the masses. Do you support drugs?
Second - the religious are not happier than others. In a survey conducted in the area surrounding Gaza, it became clear that the percentage of children suffering from post-traumatic syndrome among the ultra-Orthodox is significantly higher than among the secular.
Third - there are many ways to be secular. Unlike religion, which subjects you to a set of beliefs and mitzvot, secularism does not oblige you to speak, so your degree of happiness depends, among other things, on the way of life and the philosophy you adopt. I inform you that in my life I have never met a religious person who is as happy as I am.
This mistake of yours is also expressed in the inclusive expression you use when you say "the secular lifestyle". You should know that there is no such thing. It's like talking about the lifestyle of someone who is not addicted to drugs. Among those who are not addicted to drugs there are thieves and murderers (less than among the addicts, but there are) as well as scientists, peddlers, glaziers, artists, prostitutes and soldiers. What is the "drug free" lifestyle?
Even if religion brought happiness it would be a "fool's paradise" (this is actually a repetition of the argument with the drugs).
The religious way of life does not educate to "love your neighbor as yourself".
That is, he claims that he does so, but he defines as "neighbor" only an observant Jew.
For example, it is forbidden to desecrate the Sabbath in order to save a gentile, the desecrators of the Sabbath and homosexuals must be killed, and so on and so forth.
What do you think about the fact that one of the role models in the Jewish religion is Abraham our father who, after driving his wife and son out to dry in the desert, went to slaughter his remaining son?
What do you think about the fact that the madwoman from Beit Shemesh behaved like him?
Now you will be surprised: there is something in which I agree with you, but I disagree with the value you attribute to it.
I'm really not a pluralist in the sense that I'm not willing to respect claims just because someone makes them. For me, their truth is the determining factor.
I think that's how it should be done.
Pluralism that honors lies leads to disaster.
Dafna, thank you for your response.
I would like to add an explanation by Professor Leibovitz who was once asked about the Torah and the essence of life
And he said in his beautiful language that the Creator dedicated a few verses to the story of creation and the rest is a commandment between a person and a place and between a person and his friend so that we become better people.
But let us conclude from this that man will never, ever, ever be able to understand the scope of creation
and its depth (this does not mean to deny science, but it is proper for man to know his place in his world)
It seems from the article that the writer does not understand a thing and a half of the Holy Torah (you will be surprised...) of the Jewish people. It is clear that the human mind cannot contain sublime things that are written in the Torah and that every letter and letter and every sign and sign has a great meaning that we cannot understand.
I would suggest that the author of the article fill himself with a little humility, or alternatively, that he empty himself of his ego, and open his mouth precisely to things that contradict his views, because only then will he have the full right to write against them. The article was written in a sarcastic, cynical tone and from some sense of a threatened person trying to defend himself. I really didn't like it to say the least...
And besides, does the writer have an explanation regarding a significant number of testimonies of people who experienced clinical death?
Regarding cases of reincarnation that are mostly common among the Druze community? Or all kinds of mystical things such and such (which I have personally experienced) that are disconnected from any material dimension?
Science does not like to deal with such questions, but what to do and the spiritual phenomena continue every day?...
I'm personally a die-hard science buff but I won't let the material fool me. The material is an important thing in our world, but for me it is not the main thing.
What you didn't understand:
There are enough retards here so I have no reason to argue with a reasonable person just because they are desperate.
I don't see roses either but I won't give up without a fight and in the meantime, according to my experience, there are a few ways that work. Maybe not at the desired pace, but maybe we'll still succeed.
As mentioned - the elections are the key.
Put:
It is indeed an interesting way to present the honesty and effectiveness of science in a negative way.
I assume that in your eyes it is better to continue to believe that the rabbit rummages even though it has long been established that it does not.
I inform you that even if you count grains of sand for 23 hours every day no one will think you are a genius.
If you were a genius you would understand why.
Actually even if you were just a reasonable person you would understand this as well.
know not believe:
So what do you know about the rabbit?
That retarded and mesmerized religious yes:
Please explain to us how you respond to an article you haven't read discussing a book you haven't read?
Did you come to respond or reply?
You say that your belief in the Lord of the world does not start from the mind. I say your words are true. A thing that is in contradiction to logic cannot come from the mind.
You say that your faith will not end with reason - this is a bit worrying because it means that "your reason" is ready to accept claims that contradict reality or claims that contradict each other as fact.
This makes you an irrational person and an irrational person always scares me because his behavior cannot be predicted by rational considerations.
The mind for you is a tool to discover the Lord of the world. That is - contrary to all the facts, you decided that it exists and now you are enslaving your mind to "discover" it. odd. By the way - what will you do with that "discovery" where you "discover" something that you "knew" in advance?
You say that no sane person believes that we are in a continuous dream but at the same time you allow yourself to believe that God created the world with dinosaur skeletons millions of years old in the bowels of the earth just to deceive us. It's just as ridiculous. It's kind of like believing that I created you for the purpose of this conversation with all the memories planted in your mind and in fact you didn't exist until this moment (I also updated the science website to include a comment that you remember writing in the past even though I wrote it and planted a false memory in your mind.
You say that there are many stories about that Jew who "doesn't believe" and so on.
And I say - in a culture that is all based on fairy tales, what wonder is there that there are so many of these stories?
After all, in that culture there are also such stories about Einstein and Darwin. The stories in this culture are many - not because of their correctness but because of the purpose they were meant to serve.
I guess there are probably also stories that might seem like that even though I believe most of them aren't really like that. Dennett once gave a lecture on "Some good reasons for asserting that you believe in God". An interesting lecture like all his lectures. There are situations in which it is convenient for a person to claim that he believes even though we do not.
I will skip a few of your words because your opinion on Zamir Cohen and his path does not interest me.
I will move on to what you call our "basic assumptions":
"First premise:
There is a contradiction between the Torah and science."
Is this still a discount? Isn't the Torah's claim about the fact that the rabbit and the rabbit rummage contrary to the claim of science that they don't do this a contradiction?
There are of course many more contradictions and some of them are mentioned in the article, just as there are also contradictions between the words of the Torah and themselves.
"Second premise:
The Torah is something ancient, ancient, irrelevant, unreal, non-binding, at best there are some interesting stories there, some of them taken from ancient cultures."
What are you arguing about here? Isn't it ancient? Ancient is not ancient? Is it true despite the first assumption? Is it relevant even though it's not real? It is binding even though it is not relevant and not real? Are there no interesting stories there? These stories are already in previous cultures but were not "taken" from them but reinvented?
"Third premise:
Science is always right. Even if it's just theories."
Here you show that you do not understand what science is.
Science has no claims about reality and its only claim is about the way it should be investigated. Therefore, he is not right or wrong in relation to any claim about reality (because, as mentioned, he does not make such claims at all).
Claims about reality exist only in theories and these theories are scientific if they express claims whose correctness can be tested.
No theory has ever been proven correct. All the progress of science is based on pointing out errors in various theories either through logical rigors or through experiment.
Therefore, there is no scientist (and I repeat - not one!) who claims that science is always right (a contentless claim) or even that scientific theories are always right.
Of course it's easier to argue with people when they put nonsense in their mouths but, as you can see, it doesn't work here.
Fourth premise:
If the contradiction between science and the Torah can be reconciled in two ways, then we will decide according to the opinion of science."
It is strange! If it is possible to settle - why should it be settled?! No one thinks so and this premise is also a lie that you are trying to plant in our words.
Fifth premise:
We are smart. All the rabbis of this generation and of previous generations are stupid, lacking understanding of science, without a clear and sharp line of common sense."
Here you demonstrate ability to examine kidneys and heart.
I certainly think I'm smarter than you, but even I don't think the rabbis are stupid. I do think they are brainwashed.
In short - this is also a fabricated premise.
"Results of all the basic assumptions:
I have no reason to try to really find out the issues discussed. It's always better to stand in the position of the facilitator, the one who knows how to make things difficult, but I will never try to be the one who answers the answers..."
what is this lie Many answers were given both in the article and in the comments. These answers do not agree with your prejudices and therefore you invent the lie that was not given.
Good. I will skip the preaching of morality and just ask you to finish:
So does the rabbit rummage or not?
It is easy to see that the writer repeats the question or belongs to a sect that tries to fight Judaism.
As the sages said, one clown repels a hundred reproaches, see the point of the traitor's monster
A "serious" investigation by the writer.
The great problem of the scientists and it seems that the editor of the site also suffers from what religious people think
or religion are opposed to science, and it is a fatal mistake who fears who the scientists or pretenders are
To speak in the name of science who are afraid of religion.
I would recommend all of you to go to the supernatural website and listen to Rabbi Neugescheld's lecture
who is also known as a penitent no less younger than Rabbi Zamir Cohen.
He also made it clear that the writer of the aforementioned article did not bother at all to get to the bottom of the opinion of the book "The Revolution" but was just looking to attack religion.
For the sake of justice, I will explain the principle of the transformative book, which is actually a consequence of the book "The Extra Dimension"
of Rabbi Doron Weitzum,
The aforementioned writer was indeed right that we look for words or events that belong to a certain topic and search
them in the Torah, and the beauty is that the cluster falls next to each other. But can this thing
to occur in other books is certain and the detractors do not bother to mention this, the probability
The strength of the Torah cluster is clearly visible and beyond the probabilistic expectations.
Well, I no longer have the strength to continue refuting the writer's words, because as the commenters wrote that those who return to repentance are purely on an emotional basis, then as above, in reverse, those who return to the question are a mother of
the emotion Not to mention an average secularist who is unable to look beyond the binoculars and I'm not saying
God forbid it is to tease because I am sitting in my people.
Father, please publish my little response, and Happy New Year to the entire House of Israel
The last one was in connection with the reaction of Avi-Ael Darwin. I took an evolutionary ride...
You can repeat the comments. I didn't understand them.
I agree with you, it also takes 30 years for an intelligent independent researcher without bias and false ratings
His birthright, his teachings for public recognition - some eat straw even until the day they die. Not to mention girls
Genius, original, brilliant in the world of men flaunting peacock feathers.
Little ones can't give grades to big ones - and big ones??
Who has balls? You pissed me off.
Hugin
Yaron:
It is interesting.
You probably know what the essence of Judaism is and what goals it has set for itself.
It is likely that you, like all the religious commenters here, act according to these goals and therefore I can allow myself to conclude that one of the goals of Judaism is for Jews to believe in it.
This is also the reason why Zamir Cohen tries to sing the hymns about the fact that all scientific knowledge appears in the Torah.
So I ask you: if getting people to believe in religion is one of the goals and if they are willing to lie for that purpose, as the article demonstrates well, why do you think the way of telling the truth about some natural phenomenon, some medicine, or some other scientific subject does not correspond to the goals ?
If I don't understand the goals of Judaism, then in your response you proved that you don't understand them either, and so do all Jews. Perhaps the obvious conclusion is that the goals of Judaism such as the "factual" theory are simply a jumble of contradictions that no one can understand?
Eli.R:
What about a substantive debate? Does the rabbit rummage or not?
Was the person who created the rabbit supposed to know anything about the rabbit?
All of our lives are affected by crazy laws and actions that originate from the religion based on the collection of nonsense described in the article and many other nonsense and the religious people repeat and make in our eyes the stupid claim that the scientists are just wasting their time because everything is in the Torah after it was written by an omnipotent and omniscient being.
Not only that - children learn this nonsense at school!
So you are telling us that it is forbidden to teach the children of Israel that all this is nonsense? Nonsense!
You can, as you have decided, skip articles dealing with this type of issues, but I hope you are aware that this is what is commonly called (unjustly towards the ostrich girls) - ostrich policy.
The things written in the article are a factual description of what is written in the Torah and other Holy Scriptures, and a description of their conflict with reality.
As someone who likes science - doesn't this contradiction bother you?
For 77, my last comment is definitely mine.
1. Apparently scientific arguments deserve reference from a scientific website and therefore it is pure science. Protecting science from its falsifiers is indeed pure science.
2. Darwin also faced the same problem because before the origin of the species he wrote many books about certain animals or about a certain phenomenon and deliberately did not refer to the commonality between it and other phenomena, which he referred to in the origin of the species. And they also asked him why he wouldn't be satisfied with pure science and wouldn't look for the philosophy behind it. Then they discovered an over-sensitivity to religious feelings.
He of course did not agree, it is true that because of this it took him 20 years to formulate the theory of evolution, but during all these years he established it beyond any reasonable doubt.
Father, there is no connection between these things.
The same goes for Muslims and Christians.
When I enter a site that calls itself "the leading science site in Israel" I want results and not just a cheap slogan!
And in simple words:
If the "scientist" claims to be purely scientific, then so be it. And if not, don't mislead us with articles that waste time like this (regardless of what I think about the topic "Torah and Science" I have already found a twist or two and if you, the editor of the site is on the side of these twists then what can I say and what can I say except that I decided to abandon it correctly)
For 75, these arguments from someone who came once to argue and claim to be a regular reader who abandoned are an example of Haredi violence.
There is no pure science without atheism. As long as the criticism is of the Christians or the Muslims, no one is compensated here, but when it comes to someone who claims to speak on behalf of Judaism, suddenly everyone jumps. So don't say it's against the religion but only against the Chabadnik version of Judaism.
There are reformers who do not deny evolution. What, suddenly they are not Jewish?
The article did not try to negate religion at all, it tried to negate the so-called scientific arguments that supposedly support religion. Since when is seeking the truth and aversion to lies a religious offense? asked any rabbi.
Instead of this site being purely scientific, for some reason there are always combinations of religion here.
I want net science! Stop all kinds of cheap writers who try to take religion and negate it with science when they have media exposure!
As for me, I'm abandoning this site just because of this!
Roy
Your claim is correct.
My intrusive questions are beyond your ability to investigate, for now.
Not bad.
Hugin
Whoever in the article falsified what is explicitly written in the Bible in Parashat Nesha (Bamadbar XNUMX, XNUMX) also falsified the words of Rabbi Zamir Cohen in "Mafalal". Anyone who looks at the Bible and the "reversal" will see this for himself.
to Daniel
Thanks also for the link you sent.
Only one thing is not clear. Why is Prof. Koeh apologizing? (at the end of the article, in the appendix of the introduction?) and for what actually?
I wish everyone
Balance
At least, in Einstein's way.
Maybe with a relative quantum jump as an addition..
correction:
The Babylonian creation myth (parallel in many respects to Genesis XNUMX) is the "Anuma Elish".
In the "Galgamesh Tales" (a fascinating story in itself) there is a parallel to the story of the biblical flood.
Therefore, Marduk (the Almighty God) did not do hocus pocus and created everything in six days.
Daniel,
In Amnon Carmel's writing I notice an abundance of logical arguments, accompanied by foundations, references and quotations from the Bible and the Talmud. If you disagree with the logical arguments in the article, I would be happy to read why and wherefore.
Hugin,
I will be happy to answer your questions, to the best of my ability, if you phrase them more clearly.
Regarding Einstein's faith, it is advisable to read the book Einstein and Religion.
http://www.text.org.il/index.php?book=0705102
I would like to add to Ameriko's response and state their accuracy. Some of the claims against the Torah were about the subject of the heart (3 rooms). This appears in the Gemara and not in the Torah, and the difference is that this Gemara is a collection of writings by sages from the First Temple period who drew quite a bit from the medical and scientific knowledge of the wisdom of the Greeks who at that time dominated the wisdom of the sciences. And not about the "words of the living God" as above regarding the pregnancy of the animals and so on.
I can understand the anti-repentance reaction that stems from the "Amnon Yitzchak" phenomenon, but there are also quite a few religious scientists who do not find a contradiction between their faith and their work (Bar Ilan University for example) but let's not forget that science also does not know what happened half a second before the big bang and the Parallel to man's lack of knowledge of how God was created.
It is not implied from my words that we should not criticize the phenomenon of converts who appropriate science as they see fit, but from here to the negation of religion it is a long way.
In connection with the claim that the world was created 6000 years ago, the prevailing claim today in rabbinical philosophy is that this is the beginning of the human cultural civilization known today.
Also, I never understood why they try to mix two different fields (theology and science) after all these are topics that go in different directions, emotion versus logic. After all, if a person tries to scientifically attack the feeling of love, people will look at him as a crazy god, but when you try to attack faith scientifically, it seems more tolerable...
And my father, although I greatly appreciate your work, I think it would be better that when trying to contradict the claims that appear in the tradition, it is desirable that this be done not by disparaging writing but by logical arguments.
Roy
I tend to believe that although you don't rely on analogies, such as Harry Potter, etc., etc., you do
Believe in the true story.
here and now.
Want to say, you should at least believe in yourself, right? So who are you really?
From your aloofness, among the bullshit, it is clearly evident that you have a very deep internalization of values. And that is the main point.
And by the way, earlier I had a "fraudulent mistake... I added... I don't know how it happened, another question mark
The word answer.
Do you have any idea why this happened and why? Can it be tested scientifically? Does it have a scientific meaning? Does science have a certain limit, and what is it? Is the value of life really included in the indices?
All this and more, questions that are asked all the time.
I'm just wondering how many of you have a deep inner faith, but won't dare to admit it
Hass, lest they might be dismissed from the site customs, and infamously condemned in the name of "pure science".
And by the way, is it permissible for a truth seeker to ask these questions at all?……………take care of yourselves.
Sincerely
Hugin
Nice jumpers.
Our God suffered from a very long period of "amnesia".
Trapped in the chains of the "brain snake" that deceives them severely. They hypnotize humanity. And these are just examples
Pettiness, for worldly kindness. Sending everyone to hell again and again.
Be independent!independent!learners!explorers!loving!and with the help of each one and his name -and his memory,
Everything will be perfectly fine in the end.
And those who are tired will go to sleep.
All good, now my "sun" wants to sleep, hello.
Hugin
Hello everyone. Interesting but trending article.
Well, according to the emotional guys, they also repeat the question, they usually do it because they lack emotion, and not because of a big truth they suddenly discovered. And as Rabbi Kook once defined it, "scientific apostasy stems from moral apostasy" meaning that people who saw corrupt rabbis threw their hats to the winds, and embraced a scientific book. But in contrast, people who clung to a rabbi who "looked like an angel of the Lord of hosts" became stronger in their religious faith (the sages of the Gemara already discussed this a long time ago and said regarding the selection of a rabbi as stated "if he looks like an angel to you - accept Torah from him, and if not - do not accept Torah from him "The Torah deals with morals and not with science. When the one who teaches you morals, is not an "angel" in your eyes, you will abandon the Torah).
And yes - the same goes for the secular. Many of the returnees in Chuba are people who felt emotional distress from people in the secular world, and received a warm shoulder in the yeshiva next to the house.
Therefore, anyone who wants to preserve their own kind in their environment, is requested to treat them nicely and support them when they need help. and clean from his environment corrupt people and wrongdoers of all kinds. And also to cleanse himself of all kinds of bad qualities that have stuck to him over the years, and come to Zion a redeemer, and at least for your environment.
In any case, I would like to draw your attention to an interesting statement by Prof. Aharon Barak, the former Acting President of the Supreme Court and of Bethel for now:
A "Jewish state" is a state whose values are drawn from its religious tradition, the Bible is the basis of its books and the prophets of Israel are the foundation of its morality. A "Jewish state" is a state in which Hebrew law plays an important role, and where Jewish marriage and divorce matters are decided according to Torah law. A "Jewish state" is a state in which the values of the Torah of Israel, the values of the Jewish heritage and the values of the Jewish law are its basic values.
Aharon Barak said this before the XNUMXth Zionist Congress.
http://www.shatil.org.il/data/aharon_barak_zionism_democracy.rtf
Recommended reading material.
Why would a secular person bring the Bible as "basic in the state books" if it weren't for the fact that without the Bible, secular existence is loaded with endless paradoxes?
In any case, I believe, after studying well, that the Torah is true and that there are irreconcilable paradoxes in secularism. And I got to discuss it at length with guys of all colors in the past
The basics of the dispute - http://www.kipa.co.il/community/show.asp?Messageid=1106748
The end of hypocrisy - http://www.kipa.co.il/community/show.asp?Messageid=1628878
The end of hypocrisy - continued -
http://www.kipa.co.il/community/show.asp?Messageid=1692270
Greetings
go to peace
Chutsamza, great site and thanks to all the people involved in it.
Well done friends,
A step back for religion is a step forward for humanity.
Long live freedom of thought!
Yehoida,
This is an interesting opinion, but unfounded. All monotheistic religions have focused on the question of what God wants from them. There is also an extensive literature on morality that has come from Christian thinkers and pastors. Not only Jews have a monopoly on morality.
Apart from that, the Jews were involved in the social and scientific life of the countries where they were citizens. Jewish scientists and philosophers have contributed to the development of science and philosophy throughout history. If scientific facts were already present in the Jewish religion, why was it necessary to rediscover them with the help of science? Why did the Jews never discover all the scientific discoveries that exist today, in a kind of 'reverse engineering' of the Bible and the Talmud? The answer is that everything that is tried to be shown today as 'scientific discoveries in the Torah' are unclear sentences that can be interpreted in a number of ways, or discoveries that were already known to other peoples, such as the Greeks and the Babylonians.
One last thing, Yehoida: you accuse the writer of ignorance of the sources, but he brought references and relevant quotations from the sages of Judaism for each of his assertions. What is your reference when you write what the Jews focused on and what they became famous for? And the book 'Angels and Demons' is no more acceptable reference than 'Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix'.
Anyone who has read the book 'Angels and Demons' knows that there is a very big disadvantage in running after scientific discoveries without moral inhibitions. The Jewish religion holds great scientific secrets, although not all of them.
Why didn't the Jews become famous for science?
Because instead of focusing on the question of what they want from the world, they focused on the question of what the world (or God who created it) wants from them. That is why the Jews became famous thanks to the Moser. There is no doubt that the author himself testified to his ignorance of our sources. He may be a great scientist, but his knowledge of Judaism is poor.
Avi,
You carry a huge genetic memory in both name and blood: you carry a lineage.
Read my last comments more deeply. You have to remember deep inside. It will come.
And you will find a scientific explanation for it later.
You are not just a science seeker.
And you don't have to be religious. And don't hate the religious, that's their way. Hate: blinds the heart, the heart is
The heart of your being-everything.
dear father,
Even if I agree with you, that an opinion supporting secularism will not be tolerated by the ultra-Orthodox website, you did not address what was said in my response at all.
In any case, the phrase "freedom fighters" was put in quotation marks because I believe that most of the commenters here are nothing more than closed-minded people who preach the religion of absolute secularism. There is really no real pluralism here.
In my opinion, the discussion here is not intellectual at all. There is a crusade against religion here, seasoned with infinite arrogance. Even the article, although it is largely correct as it appears, is a marginal reference. I return to the point I raised in my previous response - does the presence of religious people who justify their opinion in an illogical way make the entire faith illogical?
And again - I am a secular person. Don't worry, you won't find me on ultra-Orthodox websites.
My name is Avraham after people from both families - my father's and my mother's - who perished in the Holocaust.
I didn't choose the name, and I've been called Blau Chi Avi since I can remember, but since I don't believe in any superstitions, not even in the fact that you need to change your name to change your luck, I saw no point in changing. It's not important anyway.
Avi,
As a seeker of "knowledge" about all shades of texture, the name "Hidaan" suits me personally (and humanly) very much.
I sent you a "wait" so that you could clarify your position.
My place seeks openness and broadened minds and learn from everything without the exceptions.
Therefore, my place reads all the talkbackists, even if the eyebrows are for those who catch my eye or
Buy my heart or my mind...with the conditional guarantee, of course.
The articles are very challenging, stimulating... and the responses according to them. This is also how the articles are streamed to you
Stimulus-response, stimulus-response. And I have not seen a Jew, who is not neurotic in his mind, this is what we are, in the world.
I think I sent a word-bomb again..so be it.
Perhaps the question being asked now is, what is a Jewish mind, is there such a cow at all and what is happening here and to us Israelis in general. In short, who are we really? Who are you? Who am I? etc. and what do we all represent in our positions.
Why, for example, are you jealous of science, and on the other hand, world fiction is also fascinating to you??
And by the way, why are you called Avi-Abraham? Maybe Marco Polo suits your personality better? No, no, don't change.. just check your tassels - a little peek inside.. yourself.
Hey friend, don't you repent?
Courted again and again with the question!
There is a mathematical formula here for the philosophers among us.
Hugin
The difference between us can be summed up in one sentence. Try to imagine how long a similar response but in the opposite direction, i.e. supporting secularism, will remain on an ultra-Orthodox website?
Just wondering why did you put the phrase "freedom fighters" in quotation marks? Since when is freedom a derogatory word?
For "what you didn't understand" and the other "freedom fighters", haters of religion, etc.,
Forgive me my friends, but in my opinion you are the ignorant here. Please don't get confused, I am a science lover, a secular person, I work in a hi-tech company (specializing in DB), and I consider myself a rationalist. On the other hand, I have faith in God. I will point out that at my place of work the general atmosphere is like the atmosphere among the commenters here on the website - complete disdain for religion, tradition, and in fact everything that makes us a people throughout the generations.
Contrary to saying "what you didn't understand", I actually think that there is a certain percentage of converts who did so out of logical thinking. I myself, in the past a staunch Atheist, approach religion in (very) small steps, while collecting information that lasts over years, without contradiction in everything related to science. It is not known if at the end of the process I will repent, but it is clear that those who see me and my ways of life do not know at all about the process I go through over the years. I will only point out that my faith in God is not absolute, and there are times when I "lose" it.
"The last thing they (=the converts) are able to do is think" - that's what you said. You are arrogant, and in this case you are wrong. I usually avoid absolute statements, but here I can say outright - you are wrong. Belief in God is faith, and therefore, does not need logical justification. But the fact is - there are educated people, professors, doctors, etc. of exact sciences who repent again and again, regardless of their scientific approach. They continue to investigate science, and see science and faith as parallel issues that do not conflict with each other at all. Of course, the whole process involves thinking and pronunciation, and trying to get to the bottom of things.
For the avoidance of doubt - I am not one of those who believe that the Torah is full of scientific truths. Absolutely not. I also don't deny that - some - of those returning to the settlement do so during parametic rituals, such as throwing candles en masse into the fire, wearing such and such bracelets, etc. But to come and draw some kind of conclusion from this about all religious people, religious people, or religion itself - this is ignorance. It's kind of like judging secularism according to the Big Brother show, just because the participants in it are secular.
I said that repentance is sometimes a logical act. I will explain: while faith in itself is emotional, a person can choose to surrender to the system of laws of religion out of a logical choice. And why would he do that? During my life I had the opportunity to live among religious people, mainly from the Leumi religious camp, and also a few Chabadniks (mainly on trips around the world). The people I saw before my eyes were happier than any secular person I knew. Their family life was lust for the eyes - the love within the family, the Likud. And you will be surprised - respect for a woman. Secularism claims that religion disadvantages women, but I was privileged to see happy women with "light" in their eyes precisely among the religious. The religious people I have met adore their wives and respect them like I have never seen in almost any secular home. These people are people of action, of community. In contrast to the secular way of life that educates for "personal empowerment", the religious way of life educates for "loving your neighbor as yourself", community life, and other values that have been lost from the secular world. Absolute freedom is more chaos, therefore a person who believes (emotionally), may choose (rationally) a religious life, out of a (perhaps egoistic) desire to be happy.
There is an unwitting catch here.
I wish you could understand clearly.
your,
Hugin
Laudin, I couldn't quite get to the bottom of your words, in your opinion there is scientific knowledge and non-scientific knowledge, therefore the name science does not fit a site that thinks that knowledge is only scientific.
That is not accurate. There is literature, poetry, art, including fictional stories. This is indeed non-scientific knowledge, but it does no harm to anyone, after all, it does not matter if the radiation that competed in the Gal Mokh book caused an increase in the ratio between the stupid and the wise or an increase in a fixed number of IQ points, and then the gap is rather small.
Or in the old man and the sea what kind of sea creature he was fighting exactly.
On the other hand, when you come to describe reality - it is important to refer to the truth. There are no two versions of the truth regarding the formation of life, its development, the age of the universe. Therefore non-scientific knowledge has no meaning.
Therefore there is no contradiction between the expression the scientist and the scientist.
To my father and Roy
I read all the comments.
There may be a cognitively or subconsciously misleading contradiction in the name you have given to the site.
If only the "scientist" is important! Maybe replace the name with "the scientist". And leave the "scientist" as a document
passing to the historians of the future.
Of course, everything is up to you, father.
Beyond that, Roy has a very prominent place in the content...and its special aspects.
Well... and not to mention all the magibists who steal all the colors of the rainbow, who paint and paint the
This fascinating site.. this evening, such a long and special evening.
in the name of the "exact" sciences
Hugin: Contemplating.
Thank you very much, my father.
I think I will skip bringing up such topics, they only make me feel bad.
Continue with the articles on astrophysics...two thumbs up
Hello to me.
I would be happy if you continue to enjoy the site. I am once again sorry that you were offended by the article, but I stand behind it, because it cannot be that when the defense of religion needs to be shouted, it is shouted over so many loudspeakers that it is impossible not to hear it, and when they seek to correct the scientific (not religious) mistakes that are crying out to the heavens - they are forced to do so in a whisper. So what is this spell to silence?
I suggested that, since such articles make up a negligible percentage of the articles on the site, you are welcome to skip them.
Regarding the comments - we give freedom of response. But you should not give them as much importance as the things that are said in the articles.
Roy
The site never hurt my views, on the contrary I really enjoyed it until today, you understand I'm quite a science freak and I've read most of the articles in science until today, I keep up to date with all the articles through the RSS channel and I try not to miss out.
Even though my field is usually more computers and genetics, being an avid MDB enthusiast I really enjoy Avi Blizovsky's articles and I thought I found a home on this site.
There are very few sites in Israel that give me what this site has given me to this day and I just felt quite hurt by the article, but especially the comments...
Lali, I'm sorry but I couldn't understand how criticism of one person (I wish it was just him but it was enough) hurts an entire public.
Search and see how many curse (not criticizing, which is a legitimate thing) me for example. Open a conversation on my topic on router for example and you will see the venomous responses. So what, is this an injury to all Israeli science?
And as for Nature - have you read the articles? You saw that one of them, for example, talks about the followers of the flat earth coming to the aid of the creationists. Are they cynical too? Does Nature also mix science with responses to religious attacks?
to me,
The site presents scientific opinions. I'm sorry if this opinion hurts your faith, but science reflects reality as we know it, and it is obligatory to present the facts as they are. According to the argument you present here, Galileo also should not have disproved the religious dogma that the sun revolved around the earth, because it would have offended the Christians terribly. I'm sure the Pope also referred to this idea as 'political', but it was clearly just science. The same as above with creationism/evolution and the 'scientific truths in the Torah'.
As for Nature, there are currently 292 articles dealing with creationism. Almost every month there is a new article on the subject. Same with science and the like.
Avi,
Thank you very much for the articles…
And again, I also join your protest about the cut in the science budget (and culture as well) in favor of transferring the money to yeshiva.
I am bothered by the brain drain from the country to abroad because there are no budgets for research and standards.
And it really bothers me what parties do to stay in their seats.
But I want to differentiate between the repentance movement and using science to justify repentance, not everyone is like that...
And because the article focused on the way that person uses to convert people, the comments here just got worse and worse to the point where I couldn't read any more.
Once again, you can criticize how that person uses science to justify his words, but using it as an insult to all religious and ultra-Orthodox people is simply not the right thing to do!
Especially not on a site dealing with science.
And again, I don't see the Nature newspaper opening an opening to reach this kind of victory.
my father
In simple terms it is called: nature against health.. creation.. creation..?? I got confused, oops..
Articles against creationism in Nature
Hello Eli. Despite my previous response, I must answer the issue of injury.
I have no intention of personally harming anyone. All in all, someone hurt science and it hurt me personally, and I'm just defending myself.
I am sorry to hear that this is the opinion of the majority, and indeed from an economic point of view there is no doubt that the cuts in the science budgets on the one hand and the flow of funds to yeshiva on the other show that the state supposedly considers the majority, but the fact that the irrational side of the state constitutes a majority has nothing to do with the truth but only with the organizational power of those people.
The scientists, on the other hand, are each engaged in their own research. We don't have too many people like the late Carl Sagan.
I apologize for the offense, but since Mr. Cohen has a TV channel, a book publishing house, endless websites and the science he supposedly came up with only has this website, I have no choice but to answer the attackers.
If you are offended it is a by-product of our response to the continued insult and insult of science for the last 30 years since the Repentance movement was founded.
So you are actually justifying all the statements and dirt that people threw at each other in response to this article?
Is this the way to engage in science? By throwing mud at each other?
Does a "real scientific site" have to give a platform to political statements that intentionally hurt a large part of the population? And then just sit back and enjoy it?
I really doubt it.
Because I am religious, I was invited to write an article against me that should contradict all of Amnon Carmel's words, but I rather doubt that turning it into a religious-atheist debate would be correct because this is not the place (that's what I believed until now)
To Roy
I have read many articles in the Neitzer newspaper specifically on the topics of evolution, but I have never found an article that specifically attacks Christians and their beliefs, especially after the decision to teach creationism in US schools
Avi Blizovsky
Strengthens your hand I believe in presenting opinions even if they are extreme and even disproved, a healthy food ground for refreshing habits of thought for a reexamination of established beliefs and points of view.
There is nothing like arguing about things that a person believes in, which supposedly represent the bird of his soul, as a cure for obsolescence and mental fixation.
Contradictory approaches that cause emotional shock have more potential to sway a person to move forward in their thinking than logical arguments that are not emotionally charged. The same claims themselves may strengthen opposite directions in different people. In my opinion, the direction is not important, the forward movement and the development of thought are much more important.
Lali R. If someone opens a site that will give selective scientific news it will not be a real scientific site. This will at most be an Israeli version of the Christian Science Monitor.
These are not political statements. The fact that politicians also use it is their problem, not ours.
This is the scientific truth. And from time to time you also have to protect her, not expect everyone to attack, and we'll sit on absorption alert just so as not to upset anyone?
Still 99.99% of the site are what you want. And maybe you will offer us a place where the border crosses. Is knowledge of the independent origin of the ostrich and the emu legitimate? I am not defiant. I really want to know.
And if you want to know, it's nothing compared to the fight in the US against evolution deniers. You might also ask Science and Nature not to express an opinion in favor of evolution because it outrages the majority.
I hope I made myself clear, I leave the job of explanation from now on to Michael and Roy. I hope you understood Roy's last explanation. Response number 40. I will only add that if the rabbis had left science alone, there would be no need for articles of this type.
to me,
As my father has already pointed out, the scientific journals Science and Nature are the 'pinnacle of science' today, and they deal relentlessly with issues like creationism and evolution, although I'm sure this offends their strict Christian readers. I hope that one day this site will reach the number of readers that Science has, but even until then, note that even the most important scientific sites deal with the relationship between religion and science.
Your claim is based on the assumption that there is no connection between science and religion. The problem is that the converts claim that there is a close connection between the two, and try to prove it in a variety of unfair ways (to say the least). In this case, a scientific website has a full right to deal with scientific issues and their link to religion.
Avi,
Again, I really don't understand the essence of the argument and I really don't understand why you attack me in this way (although I'm starting to understand why you attack me).
I naively thought that the essence of the site was to engage in purely scientific fields and until our last debate I had no reason to suspect anything else.
I have enjoyed the site to this day (and again I am not threatening) it had really interesting articles and I really learned from it.
The site belongs to you, you are its editor-in-chief and you have the right to do as you wish with it.
I just hope someone learns from you and builds a site just like yours, only without all your political virulence.
For number 13 and number 15
Lauria Guryahu: You still fail to understand and refuse to internalize:
Repentant and especially them! Faced with a purely emotional decision.
Logical considerations have no meaning.
Not really.
Some of these people have a hard time with the illogical and somewhat crazy decision
to repent and change their lives - their real dilemma is whether they
emotionally ready to take such a step.
The help in persuading logic is completely marginal.
The moment a person makes the decision to believe, he chooses to ignore
from logic
I repeat:
0 people returned because of logical thinking.
100 percent of the repentants wanted to repent on an emotional level.
If you happened to see a convert in "real time" you would see some emotional bomb
walking next to you
It's scary how "touchy" and emotional these people are and the last thing they are capable of
To do is to think.
The bulk of the converts did not need the excuses and reasons that you see
"logic".
Or alternatively: a person can convince himself of the correctness of delusional things only in order to
that it would suit his ambitions and hopes (in this case to repent).
We humans engage in self-deception every day and throughout the day.
We imagine an "imaginary" world where it is easier for us to live with ourselves and the environment.
99 percent of people have no incentive to strive to understand the universe as it is just because of the pursuit
The objective truth - only a few are endowed with the feeling of needing to obtain and pursue the truth because it burns in their bones.
Even here on the site, I am convinced that 99 percent of people are interested in the subject only because they know emotionally that religious people spread lies and only for this reason are they looking for the truth
The reason and motive is a strong emotion of opposition.
This is true for those who return to the question as well as for those who return to repentance:
It's a kind of syndrome: they think and dream all the time how they convince others
In their rightness and righteousness, they talk about it all the time with everyone and you can see
How a normal conversation will turn into a conversation about faith for some as well as for others.
It's a syndrome for all intents and purposes.
And as for Rambam: Rambam was a man of faith but also a practical and wise man.
He knew that in order to sell the old noodles of religion, it was necessary to spice them up
In the opposite spice of faith.
Rambam knew very well that faith is the opposite of reason and clear thought.
But still in the bottom line he understood perfectly well what you refuse to believe:
Without the desire and the need to believe - there will be no faith.
Therefore, the recipe to convince a person about his faith is simple:
Check with him his emotional state.
If you "caught up" with a person who is tired of the religious life
Tired of the lies around him
Or a person who is at a point where lusts guide him
Or the oppressive religious environment no longer bothers him.
Or then, miraculously, you will argue that there is no problem in returning him with a question
And you will be surprised:
He will not need the logical excuses why religion is one big lie.
Right
He will use these excuses in order to please his higher ego
and to tell himself that the reasons that brought him back in the question are because of reasons in his head
of a world of theological reasons and that he could no longer live in this lie.
But if we dig deep inside we will see the simple truth:
Emotionally he lost the motivation to believe!
I know that my words will again pass by the ears of most people and they will not be able to comprehend:
We humans are a machine of action and reaction that operates on one driving force:
Passions!
Logic has never been the basic and true and root motive of human beings.
If we want something we will justify it with endless excuses:
We will turn any horrific crime with excuses into an act of holiness or self-defense
Or any excuse that will allow us to live with ourselves.
See criminals who brutally murdered people
In order for them to be able to live with themselves, they build their own inner world
that explains to them why they are actually good people like any of us.
The world as one sees it is nothing more than a mask of personal lies
that he builds for himself - and in the end he tells himself how honest, wise, smart and intelligent he is
and even objective.
So there is no such objective animal!
For number 15:
There are sometimes times in history when there are dramatic upsurges in repentance
And there is nothing to do against them.
See in the Arabs what a frightening religious awakening.
Hamas is a movement that did not exist and that was created out of nothing out of a strong belief.
The religious madness in the Middle East is currently at its peak and it is not certain that this is the peak of the peak.
In my opinion the country is "finished" anyway when every second child! In general education, in 10 years there will be an ultra-Orthodox religious and every fourth child will be an Arab.
The high-quality secular Jews gave up the state a long time ago
In the coming years, especially due to war or economic hardship, masses will flee
And leave the country to the mercy of the minorities who are able to survive and live because of some ideal.
and hence
I am convinced that we have no chance in the medium and long term.
So you are welcome to do like me.
Get a passport to Canada or any other sane western country.
(Even though the resting place and inheritance will not last for days...)
Europe for example is facing a dire crisis from the Muslims
And the situation in many other countries will also become worse.
This is how it is when you wage war not with high-tech but with the only winning way: the womb.
(And another note: the cliché that "history is written by the winner" is nonsense
The truth is much bitterer: the history is written by the one who gives birth to the most offspring
And it is interesting how many distortions history went through until it reached us...and how many more it will go through in the hands of the rising Muslim power)
So if you care about yourself and the air you waste in attempts at persuasion:
You can't fight guns when you're trying to shoot viruses - and that's exactly what you're doing.
No matter how much you shoot the viruses will continue to exist.
Because they belong to another world.
In theory, if you want to fight the phenomenon of repentance, you have to fight on the level
the emotional
And such a war is almost impossible without the cooperation of the establishment.
And such a war is very, very complex.
You need to know how to "pad" and support people in their difficult moments
You have to know how to stop the strong need and desire that the repentant has
In someone who will control his life and take responsibility for his life.
You have to engage in education from an early age.
And first and foremost, those who "harvest" the converts should be stopped
in their most sensitive moments in life.
But there is no body brave enough in the country today to dare to stop the ultra-Orthodox.
In the past in the XNUMXs and XNUMXs before the ultra-orthodox revolution started
There were such opportunities, but instead of stopping them, we gave them budgets
So now we eat what we cooked before.
And now the breast is too big for us by several sizes.
The site is not biased. It is a purely scientific website, just like Nature or Science, only much more popular than them and in Hebrew.
The opinions are the same and even on these sites there is an article from time to time explaining to the public where the creationists are wrong (in their case the Christians but there is no difference).
No intention to hurt anyone's faith, but what to do if the truth hurts. There is no solution to this, and there is also a built-in problem - there are 7 billion people in the world, and if we try not to harm the private faith of any of them, we will not be able to write anything, because what we do not write will harm someone. I did not hesitate, for example, to publish news that hurt the faith of Followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
And as for your last sentence, I refer you to the biography of Darwin that was recently published in Hebrew. If necessary I will look for the book at home and give you the exact page.
How do I threaten???
I really did not "demand" or "threaten"...
And if it came out of my words that I threatened or demanded, I really apologize.
I'm just saying that if the site is wrong in a certain respect or is used as a platform for opinions that hurt my private beliefs...I'll just take the hint....
I didn't demand that anyone shut up, I said that it used to be really nice without all these bickering, when the site dealt with pure science topics.
In other words, you threaten
Your demand is to shut up, in exchange for the entry of religious people to learn scientific knowledge?
I understand it right?
to me,
When people come and try to falsely use scientific theories to justify belief, there is a place to expose these lies, especially on a scientific website. As my father pointed out, unfortunately there is no other place on the net that comes from the side of science and deals with refuting the scientific-religious distortion of the converts.
There is a place for a country road, but things must also be said as they are. If a convert comes and claims that God dictated the Bible, then this is a scientific claim about reality, which can be tested. It is likely that some readers will not like the result, but Judaism has always progressed through investigation and pursuit of the truth (as has already been written here about Rabbi Moshe Ben Maymon).
In conclusion, it is important to explain again that, as I understand it, the article is not against religion as a whole, but against a group of converts who try to use science to distort religion, and vice versa. I personally do not understand how a person of faith can oppose reasoned articles that come out against the phenomenon.
Avi,
Do you really want to turn this site into a stage for religious arguments?
Because I'm not interested.
I really liked this site until today when it maintained a certain neutrality.
If you want, you can add on the home page of the site "Entrance for atheists only".
I'll get the hint.
I'm not going to fight with anyone!!!
Lali, you write something neat that refutes all the arguments of the converts (and by the way, as a scientific site we refer mainly to his so-called scientific arguments). Without what you claim is cynicism.
As for knowing the truth. I wish there were a thousand more such movements.
Shimi,
Once again I come to this site to discuss scientific articles that I respect and cherish.
I come to this site to discuss interesting and brilliant theories of all kinds of researchers and also to keep up to date.
Actually I am a high-tech person who studied in a religious place and your view really bothers me, in my belief there is a place for everyone.
Avi,
There is no place for sobriety and virulence in a self-respecting scientific article.
Even if he came to defend science.
Amnon Carmel seems to be quoting something from "True Knowledge" which is a group of pamphlets distributed by change activists in Jerusalem five years ago to show the members of the yeshiva that they are wasting their time.
I do not justify Zamir Cohen or anyone who came before him and I am sure everyone who will come after him, but I still think that these things should be done in the right way....
to me. R
You asked a beautiful question and the answer is really easy
The seculars do what they want!!!! And who are you to say no?
They prefer to believe in scientists who every few years discover new "facts", which come at the expense of "facts" without which all their theories are worthless
A person can sit all day in his hi-tech offices and not see his wife and children and be called a genius, a religious guy will sit and study 12 hours a day...they will not call him a fanatic! go figure..
After that we are surprised that we are called cases like the holocaust... apparently we deserve it!!!!
post Scriptum. Lali R. (response 25)
A similar question to the one you asked at the end, Darwin was also asked - if he could write such interesting scientific books about the differences between different types of oysters, or breeding pigeons, etc. Why should he just upset the religious and write a book that hurts their feelings, even if it is based on the same things? to keep his beliefs to himself.
Science is indeed the collection of all discoveries and studies, but there is also a unifying factor above them - rationalism and it also deserves to be heard.
For all commenters, the website is designed to give a platform for science. Not to any body that attacks him, whatever his religion may be.
If you check carefully, you will see that a small part of the website is dedicated to the defense of science and not only to scientific information, because the public who wants to check these claims does not have an address. He only has the websites of the pantheists that spread these lies. (P.S. I'm not so sure that God, if he existed, would like his name to be lied to). From time to time one percent of the articles should also be devoted to the defense of science because the only asset we have in this country are our children and if they are poisoned at a young age then Allah, or God or Jesus are the heralds of the truth. Someone needs to come out in front of them openly and not be afraid.
I am not a state media and I am not committed to the balance between truth and lies.
But if Zamir Cohen wants to respond, we will publish his words, but this time with a close response.
If this is acceptable to you please.
So what differentiates you from the rest of the nations? Are you in this land because you believe it is yours or because you were simply born here. Why do you speak Hebrew at all, after all this language belongs to all the Doss who were here 2000 years ago and more? My point is very simple, I'm sure all the scientists here already understood. There is no such thing as a Jew or a secular Israel. There is an unbeliever and there is a believer. You will know the rest next year or in another 4 years. Continue to put your trust in science. There is no world to come.
Roy
Maybe I still don't understand the meaning of the site "Hidan" but in my personal opinion there is no place for such articles on the site
If I remember correctly, in the article from a year ago about black holes, in one of the comments there appeared a comment from someone named Livna who tried to prove the existence of black holes according to the Koran.
This comment was deleted twice by the site editor Avi Balinsky!!!
I really agreed with his judgment then because in my opinion this site was supposed to provide scientific discoveries and not a platform for religious preachers of any kind.
But contrary articles that come to hurt certain beliefs are allowed on this site?
Why???
Why turn a site that deals with scientific discoveries into a stage for religious disputes???
No. I have not read Rabbi Zamir Cohen's book nor the article by Eyal. I just wanted to say something about the basic assumptions, the prejudices and the clear trend - each one according to his purpose and the role he is supposed to represent.
Let's start with Rabbi Zamir Cohen. As I wrote before, I have not read his book (although I did have a chance to browse through it a bit. The pictures there are really beautiful.), but I would like to comment something about the style and the way the rabbi chose to use to "prove" that God exists, or according to the readers' definition - Both explicitly and implicitly from their words - to try to repent (not on us).
My faith in the Lord of the world does not begin with the mind and will not end there. The mind is a wonderful and enormous gift that the Lord of the world gave us. "Oh, that's exactly what we said! The religious are retarded, stupid, emotional, etc., etc. So I also do not believe in the sovereignty of the world because "I feel the need to be subordinate and enslaved to a higher power". Intellect and emotion for me are not tools to prove the reality of the Lord of the world, but they are tools to discover Him. As no scientist has yet proven that we are alive, and are not in one long and continuous dream (even though it is terribly nice, liberating from responsibility, provocative to think so and even turns out to be of economic value (Matrix)), but nevertheless, it is clear to the sane people among us that The thing, and this is the basic premise for all our actions in our day-to-day life, the exact same thing, the same existential certainty that I feel towards the reality of my life, I feel towards the reality and the providence of God.
The questioner will ask or the claimant will claim: So you feel this way and I feel differently. And "do not approach each other all night". For the level of debate this claim is nice. But at the level of the day-to-day reality of many, many people (even among those who make the same claim) this is not true.
I will explain my words, and please try to understand them to the end:
There are many stories and cases about that "non-believing" Jew who, in significant and fateful moments, suddenly discovers that he believes in G-d all the time, in a prayer he suddenly prays, or in an act he decides not to do without any common sense and common sense. True, there are many who are not. But the very fact that there are those who chose to define their lives in such a way that G-d is outside the picture of the game of their lives, and even tried to prove this at every step they took and in every form of behavior they behaved in, but in the XNUMXth century none of this stood before them with a burst of faith Having risen somewhere from the abyss of femininity proves that the Jew within them does not disappoint.
Good. I did not try to prove the reality of the Creator, I just tried to explain what my basic premise is in believing in the Lord of the universe. For the educated among us, I would recommend reading Shmuel Hugo Berman's book "Introduction to the Theory of Recognition" where he discusses the criteria for truth according to the various philosophical methods, and tries to reach a certain decision.
To summarize my words about Rabbi Zamir Cohen's method:
Not from him do I live, and not from him and his method do I base my faith. It may be that his way helps certain Jews to strengthen their faith, but of course there are quite a few (like the commenters here) that this is not their way.
Regarding the author of the article Amnan Carmel and his opinion partners from among the readers and commenters.
In my opinion, with the same sword you are eroding Judaism and the Torah, you are also eroding the enlightenment and openness required of people of science and intellect. I will explain my words:
First premise:
There is a contradiction between the Torah and science.
Second premise:
The Torah is something ancient, ancient, irrelevant, unreal, non-binding, at best there are some interesting stories, some of them taken from ancient cultures.
Third premise:
Science is always right. Even if it's just theories.
Fourth premise:
If the contradiction between science and the Torah can be reconciled in two ways, then we will decide according to the opinion of science.
Fifth premise:
We are smart. All the rabbis of this generation and past generations are stupid, lacking understanding of science, without a clear and sharp line of common sense.
Results of all assumptions:
I have no reason to try to really find out the issues discussed. It is always better to stand in the position of the hard worker, the one who knows how to make things difficult, but I will never try to be the one who answers the answers (in the matter of the Torah and science). Likewise, a dismissive and unserious attitude is a good spice for an article about how the Torah is irrelevant to the existence of man in the 21st century in the context of a scientific article.
Finally, it is very convenient for us to categorize ourselves and those with whom we disagree with stigmas and put them into a familiar and predefined slot. And not try to really understand the other side's claims.
And only a personal tone if possible finally. Although, but perhaps precisely because of this, it has the potential to annoy some of you.
You are Jews. The Torah and the religious establishment as they are depicted in the eyes of a "secular" person really do not look like anything, and there is nothing interesting, intriguing and significant for me that I would bother to check.
But all this does not exempt you from anything. Sorry for the generalizations, but most of you have a tendency to concentrate on a very limited period of time of 250 years back, and not to look at Jewish history in terms of something wonderful and meaningful even for today. People will come and people will go, political and social ideas will rise and fall, but the destiny of the Jewish people, for which he was persecuted throughout the exile (it is recommended to read the book "Conversations with Hitler" written by his psychologist, in which there are amazing insights into the great oppressor of the Jewish people, the Jews) the same destiny will remain and eventually come to fruition. The question is whether you want to be in front of the locomotive or those who will be remembered as those who tried to instigate the train off its course. You have it.
(For the cynics among us, I would appreciate it if you didn't respond, and if you did, try to respond seriously and not sarcastically)
Yaron,
There is no victory or loss of secular or ultra-Orthodox here, but only the exposure of lies used by converts in seminars and lectures. These people are no more or less Jewish than me or you. They use lies, deceit, lies and eye contact to convert people to a very specific stream in Judaism to which they belong. There is every reason in the world to oppose such conversion, which comes from demagogues who specialize in manipulating the emotions of the audience. Similar methods are also used by Christian evangelists and Muslim fundamentalists, in conversion workshops and seminars. The enlightened secular does not defeat the ignorant religious here, but the secular and the religious together expose the lies of the converts, relying on both the religious sources and the scientific sources.
You accuse the author of the article and the various commenters of ignorance. Can you explain what this ignorance is? Maybe, this way, we'll all wait a little longer.
Amnon Carmel
The trendiness of your article is evident, how shall I define it? In the galaxy for the last time.
of Douglas Adams, the book came out a year after his "tragic" death and also includes a biography of his life) "without a trace of objectivity". end of the editor's quote.
It is obvious that you did your homework before writing the article and brought to us the wisdom of nations in many, many ways.
Of course, it is obvious that you also loved "Ia-Pluto" as a child, and especially "Chicken Soup" - Plasmat
The ethereal skies - (snowy) the beloved straight from the "Milky Way", and without a hint of objectivity, and perhaps also, and precisely
That's why I also love that bizarre cipher of the demon and the star known as a serious emission in our beloved solar system, little "Pluto" and all his exploits.
The biggest part was the farting.. hahaha.. yes yes I remember another very serious gas fart in which we vaporized poof.. in the gas chambers.. poofffffff of a unique chemical soup "in the periodic table of Pimo".. but since then, we also love Our dog Pluto - and the kibbutz and "Megiddo", and especially also the fact that there are 20 layers of amazing history there in Tell Megiddo... and many hysterical past battles. A big, fascinating, huge, huge hook.
Well, you mentioned a few more things that might be worthy of reference, but maybe later...
Ah.. where is Yehuda?? ours?? I did not see his response in the context of your article which arouses great doubt
And very serious speculation.
To live or not to be? To learn or not to see? To believe or to doubt even to die? To ask or to repeat the answers? To answer or to ask with answers?
Did anyone happen to see the "bone" of my "fundamentals"...in the cosmic fabric? Or maybe in the "legendary chicken" soup...of science and also the grandmother? And the evolutionary "mother"...to another branch?
Bye, heb-heb.
I have many languages up my sleeve.. the worm..
Hugin
An exhausting article in my opinion, as clichéd as the rabbi's positions, the question presented at the beginning of why the Jews did not create a scientific technological culture, indicates a complete lack of understanding of the essence of Judaism and the goals it set for itself, and how much the author of the article and the other commenters are wrapped in thick layers of ignorance, superstitions and a sense of arrogance that usually accompanied by ignorance.
The attempt to show how wrong the rabbi is from "knowledge" the author of the article in the Tanakh, is no less fatuous than the rabbi's attempt to prove scientific truths (which are nothing more than descriptions that change overnight, as every student's knowledge begins in the philosophy of science), from the Tanakh.
In short, another stupid Israeli scene of the enlightened secularist defeating the ignorant religious one, to the cheers of the stands.
As a religious person, everything that is said in Mr. Amnon Carmel's article and especially the attack on the religious public following the article infuriates me
As a site that claims to bring scientific innovations in biology and astrophysics (and until now I quite enjoyed just going through the articles and reading) I felt that I must have made a mistake and accidentally arrived at the site of a change movement.
Rather from other letters I read, one of them turned against the public in Muslim "a bleak picture of the destruction that is expected for humanity due to the connection between radical Islam and nuclear weapons"https://www.hayadan.org.il/mehumat-elohim-book-review-2407084/) I've seen more people go out of their way to defend the views of extreme Islam in the face of the disgust I read in the comments here.
I wish you good health, I no longer feel like reading your learned opinions
And by the way, in the same context, my personal impression is that the Hebrew Wikipedia has been taken over by scumbags, New Age people and other shameful ones, and even there there is already severe censorship against logic.
Gadi V:
You may not know that there is no thought police on this site and Zamir Cohen who distributes his wares under every fresh tree can try to do so here as well.
It is worth noting that on the websites of the rabbis they never (but never!) publish comments that are not sympathetic to their words, but that is, of course, only because there is no honesty there and even a request like yours would not be published there.
Just for the sake of honesty, if it is indeed so important to the writer and the commenters, I would like to read Rabbi Zamir Cohen's response here.
I have no doubt that no one here has reason to fear that, do they?
kid
Indeed, an article to that effect.
It also proves that I was written by God because almost everything mentioned in it appears in my past comments and how could I have known this if God had not planted this knowledge in me (who probably read it himself on the "Deat Emet" website).
In my experience - these claims do convince some of the believers; Maybe a small part - but not zero.
Beyond the fact that these claims may convince some believers - they clearly silence the rabbis, which is an achievement in itself. This website contains many examples of debates in which I managed - sometimes with great effort - to stop the religious preaching of some of the commenters here (perhaps also their religious belief, But I can't prove that.)
As I mentioned, it does involve effort. The Mevata's arsenal of tools does not only include illogical arguments and sound effects; it also includes various methods of exhaustion that include, among other things, ignoring what he is told, but if you argue with him with determination, he realizes, in the end, that the argument causes more harm than good to his cause because His logical errors and devious methods are exposed for all to see.
Therefore, "what you did not understand", our hope is not lost yet.
The following historical fact should also be remembered: despite the desire of many people to believe nonsense, the world managed to get out of the Middle Ages. It is true that today there are those who are trying to bring us back there, but we must not surrender without a fight.
The first victims of the fight against anxiety are the children - the babies who are held captive by belief because babies tend to believe the words of adults.
The counter-struggle should, therefore, be conducted mainly in the education system.
Of course, the political situation in the country in which Yuli Tamir is giving up more and more schools in favor of ultra-Orthodox brainwashing must change, but it is for the sake of changing the political situation that God created the elections and therefore we are not powerless.
For 'what you didn't understand':
So do you think we have reached the stage of losing hope (need to escape from here) and open the door to the final deterioration?
tilapia,
Great and detailed article. Thanks for the fun read.
to 'what you didn't understand',
Indeed the situation in Israel looks dire, but it is still possible to act to change it. It's a shame to leave the only country we have, just out of fear for the future.
I believe that it is also possible to return people with a question thanks to rationality. Although not much, it is possible and even happens every day (or more precisely, every month). And as Uriah said, those on the fence can certainly still be persuaded.
Be that as it may, there is no doubt that penitents are one of the most remote creatures that wrap themselves in the skin of a human being. The Knesset of Israel did a terrible injustice to the people and to the Jewish religion itself, when it passed the law prohibiting 'conversion seminars', but in the same law allowed ultra-orthodox conversion seminars.
To - "what you did not understand", you are right about those who already believe. But for those who are on the fence, it's definitely worth putting in the effort. Apart from that, modern Judaism is based a lot on the writings of the Rambam who tore down that one must give rational reasons for faith (I am formulating in general terms). This gives us (the non-believers) an opening to show the religious people their error (because there are no *real* rational reasons that support the existence of God) .
Ori
Let's take the fact that God is a worm
I don't see anything wrong with the suspicious woman drinking the mud water farting.
That is, God in his honor will indeed make those unfaithful women fart.
And now she asked
How do you catch people and bring them back in repentance? (They throw a worm at them) 🙂
Amnon Carmel
There is no point in arguing and confronting the claims of these types of converts in their ignorance, who confuse and distort the sources and turn the conversion into a missionary, they can easily be identified as a group of preachers of a local Texan church.
The contradictory interpretations they bring originate from lack of knowledge and ignorance.
In the language of the Talmud, these are the people of the lands, people who despise investigative thinking and true knowledge.
Not only do they despise knowledge, but anyone who is suspected by them of being a scholar or a scholar in the language of the Talmud.
Unfortunately, you don't understand the point and how you can deal with religious mothers.
After years in which I searched and found all the mistakes and all the lies (and some of them are presented beautifully in this article) I have no choice but to tell you the bitter news:
Nothing will help you!
If someone wants to believe in something there is no point in chasing his future belief
What needs to be uprooted is his need to believe.
The facts have never hindered any believer
Or, for that matter, not even to a person with cancer who goes to seek answers from a fraudster like Oren Zarif or Baba Bubba.
Understand people with good intentions:
This war is already lost.
The number of people who converted because of "conviction" or some logical understanding is 0
There is no such animal.
A person who believes is a person who wants to believe.
Belief is the childhood disease of humans and evolution has selected those who believe
and made them survive better than those who do not believe.
There are several reasons for this, but the main one is: faith = hope, a person who has hope
A person who loses hope will survive and continue to live. He loses his life quickly (you are welcome to check it with seriously ill patients and see that the moment they gave up is the moment when the rapid deterioration comes).
Look at the Muslims: who really believes the grandmother's stories about Muhammad
Or the Indians for all their deniable gods
Look at the grandmother's stories of the Christians and the Jews and thus all religions are all illusions
But the logic is not the point.
The truth?
I think that the State of Israel is lost and that the ultra-Orthodox will take over it sooner or later completely
Anyone who has sense should run away from here because this will be an Arab country with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish minority.
I stopped investing energy in convincing stupid people who don't want to use their logic but only emotion.
There are situations where you need to know that
we lost
You killed me with laughter!! Well done with Aya Pluto!! Regardless of the humor, a very important article. I couldn't have phrased it better... but we probably won't be able to get the enemy of humanity (religion) out of humanity for a long time "religion is an opium for the masses" said a wiser man than me... I really hope I'm wrong...
Not working yet..
Invalid File or something like that...
to the fan Indeed the problem has not been solved. We will download the link in the meantime and wait for Amnon.
A girls' article, only that the demand to hear my returners' words is dangerous, their system is well oiled and the mental pressure on the listeners is enormous.
I prefer to watch the repentant Christians channel, but I watch it without sound and then I get to be impressed by the body language of the repentant and repentant Christians, quite an experience.
True also, in one of his programs, talked about the converts in America, a really interesting article.
In short, thanks to Amnon Carmel for the examples he brought. In my next arguments with the religious I will use them.
good week
Sabdarmish Yehuda
to the fan Try now.
Indeed, the story you brought about the bitter water test that was done to a woman who was suspected of infidelity is shocking and outrageous, but I don't understand where you got the "farting" thing from.
I searched various sites related to the subject and none of them mentioned it.
Please, provide sources and references for your words.
The link to the MP3 file that the author of the article brought.
Which link?
I will fix.
Amnon Carmel - if you could fix the link, I would appreciate it.