57%: of the public: religion should be separated from the state. From the report that people prefer to live with people similar to them in terms of religion. It's a shame that the Batatists don't take this into account
Just yesterday we published on this website the conclusion of Prof. Arnon Sofer from the University of Haifa As for the future of the State of Israel as a religious state in 20 years and now a report has come confirming that we are on the way, when the public believes that the level of influence of religion in the country is already too high today.
80% of the Jewish population in Israel believe that religion has a strong influence on the State of Israel. This is according to a report published today by the Central Bureau of Statistics as part of data collection from the 2009 social survey: religiosity and tradition among the Jewish population aged 20 and over
It turns out that the feeling according to which the residential neighborhoods in Israel are becoming more and more religious is now being confirmed by the official statistical agency in the State of Israel when at least 27% of the residents in Israel felt that their neighborhood is being disturbed, contrary to the status quo and the government's surrender to the ultra-Orthodox - the public is interested in public transportation on Shabbat and the opening of places of entertainment on Shabbat. 58% of Jews estimate that relations between religious and secular people are not good.
- 74% of the ultra-Orthodox and the religious and 84% of the secular believe that religion has a strong influence on the country. The majority of the population - 63% - believe that the influence of religion has strengthened in recent years: 62% of the religious, secular and traditional, and 60% of the ultra-Orthodox. Also, about a quarter (27%) of the Jewish population feel that in recent years their area of residence has become more religious. 59% feel that their area of residence has not changed and 6% feel that their area of residence has become less religious. In Jerusalem, half (50%) testify that their area of residence has become more religious, compared to 22% of Tel Aviv residents, 23% of Haifa residents and 18% of Rishon Lezion residents.
57% of Jews support the separation of religion and state, the percentage of supporters among the religious (23%) and ultra-Orthodox (14%) is largely lower than the percentage of supporters among the secular (77%). Also, the majority of the religious (78%) and ultra-Orthodox (95%) believe that it is important that the position of religious people be heard in policy-making processes, compared to 35% of the secular. At the same time, 90% of the secular believe that civil marriages should be allowed in Israel for those who are interested in it, 60% of the traditional-not so religious, 39% of the traditional-religious, 20% of the religious and 3% of the ultra-Orthodox.
And what about the education system?
About half of the population believes that religious studies in state schools should be strengthened, and here too a large gap is evident between the different groups: over 90% of the religious and ultra-orthodox think so compared to 23% of the secular.
What does the Jewish population think about the color of Shabbat?
The majority of the Jewish public (64%) is interested in allowing recreational places to open on Shabbat (restaurants, cinemas, pubs): 93% of the secular, 76% of the traditional-not so religious, 35% of the traditional-religious, and 12% of the religious. At the same time, a lower proportion report that they usually spend Shabbat in recreational places: 64% of the secular, 43% of the traditional-not so religious and 14% of the traditional-religious.
A minority of the population shop on Shabbat (34% of the secular), but many more support the opening of stores in the cities on Shabbat: 73% of the secular and a lower rate than the rest of the population - 48% of the traditional-not so religious, 20% of the traditional-religious, and 6% from the religious (46% of all Jews). The rate of support for opening shopping centers outside the cities is even higher: 87% of the secular, 70% of the traditional-not so religious, 36% of the traditional-religious and 15% of the religious.
62% of the population supports holding sports events on Shabbat (89% of the secular), and 53% is in favor of operating public transportation on Shabbat (82% of the secular, 57% of the traditional-not so religious, 27% of the traditional-religious, and 10% of the religious). At the same time, the majority of the population (59%) believe that it is important to avoid paid work on Shabbat (except for emergency services) - a third of the secular (33%), 62% of the traditional-not so religious, 85% of the traditional-religious, 91% of the religious, and -97% of the ultra-orthodox.
Religious-secular relations
More than half of the Jewish population (58%) believe that relations between religious and secular people are not good. Seculars think so at a higher rate than the traditional, the religious and the ultra-Orthodox (67% compared to 56%, 43% and 41% respectively). In the big cities, the seculars' assessment of the quality of relations is even more negative: 86% of the secular residents of Jerusalem assess the relations between religious and secular people as "not good", 71% of the seculars in Haifa, and 68% of the seculars in Tel Aviv.
In general, for about half of the Jewish population (49%) it is important to live in an environment with a level of religiosity similar to theirs. The editors of the report conclude, and here should come a point for thought, why don't the fighters who take over neighborhoods take this into account, and also call the secular activists who are fighting them with derogatory terms, anti-Semitic being the moderate among them?
46 תגובות
Hello, I liked Menachem's words even though it is longer than usual, I read it in sequence, I agreed,
Although I was not born ultra-Orthodox, from the age of 12 to 18 I lived in an ultra-Orthodox society.
So I'm ultra-Orthodox in some place in my heart, which is what they call a seal, in certain animals.
With a deeper consciousness and understanding that I researched, studied, observed,
I came to the unpleasant conclusion, even for me, that there is no creator, it is simply required, for everyone,
who opened a newspaper, or a history book, even the Bible, nothing went smoothly with Moses,
Pharaoh and the Jews made life very difficult for him, with the manna with the calf with the water and what not.
I am still a Jew, the son of a Holocaust survivor, a resident of the country, I love Jews, even ultra-Orthodox,
Even though I am an atheist like all those before Elisha, Spinoza, Einstein, Ben Gurion Professor Har Segur
Many other good things, all good and peace, life
Admittedly a late response but better late than never. I don't understand how the discourse here has deteriorated to the level of a religion of science and all the words that have been spilled here, but no one has done what needs to be done on a site that brings publications from the mouth of the world of science...
And to the point:
First of all: let's make a complete and clear separation between Judaism and the home of Orthodox Judaism, which is known by the derogatory name (which it acquired through forced labor) Haredi. Judaism, by your permission, is a wonderful religion, if only because its entire concern and purpose is to regulate the life of the individual from the moment of his birth to the moment of his death, including marital relations, social life (remember the Jewish religion - in contrast to Christianity forbids a life of celibacy, for example) family life, regulations in the field of food and health and so on and so forth . Unfortunately, Judaism stopped developing in the 11th century when the Bible was signed in France in Western Europe, and since then a sect of people deprived of an internal focus of control gathered and handed everything over to the hands of the events they call "Hashem".
The Jewish religion is not the Haredi/Orthodox religion, was not and will not be. The only commandment regarding that "name" is to respect it. To respect him and not to adore him, to prostrate on the graves of the righteous, to caress the elders of the Kabbalists, and to extort money from anyone who is willing to finance this social fiasco.
The Jewish religion respects (if not sanctifies) a person who works for his livelihood and allocates it to others from the poor in his gates to the poor in his factories.
Shabbat is also the social order, one of the best there is, regarding rest from work and free time for leisure, including honoring God and not worshiping Him. Only Orthodox Judaism took over the original text and made the Sabbath a holy thing as we know it now.
Unfortunately, the Jewish religion (mine is the one that regulates human life between him and those around him) did not know how to continue to develop and update, and therefore has quite a few anachronistic laws that do not stand up to the test of the enlightened, critical modern man who lives in a world where information flows easily and is readily available.
The Orthodox religion is not the original Judaism. It is not the Judaism of the Ten Commandments and it is not the Judaism of forbidding work on Shabbat in order to allow leisure for other things. The Orthodox religion, with the help of the founders of the state, became a social parasite that sanctifies idleness and lives at the expense of others, completely opposite and in perfect contrast to the Jewish religion, which sanctifies work, studies, education, passing on information, respecting others, caring for the neighbor who comes to your gates, taking care of food and the health of the body and mind, and above all freedom to exist among people even if they are not members of the Jewish religion.
Everything I said can be proven scientifically on the way, and properly, to the site of science and I don't understand why the discussion here has entered into social emotions and why they have ignored the fact that the Jewish religion has undergone an ideological transformation at the hands of the ultra-Orthodox and a religion that regulates the lives of individuals between themselves has become a religion that worships dark forces that did not exist and were never created It is not required to work for them, to worship them, to caress their beards or to finance their idleness.
The Jewish religion sanctifies independent thinking, focusing internal control and taking responsibility of the individual for all his actions from the moment he opened his eyes to the moment he breathed his last. And all of this - dear friends, can be confirmed purely scientifically, all you have to do is open the book of names, chapter XNUMX.
As befits a site that respects other theses and asks for their proof, I am aware of the fact that there is another version of the Ten Commandments in the book of Deuteronomy, chapter 11, and I touched upon the matter in my words above, when I spoke about the signing of the Bible in the XNUMXth century (AD for the avoidance of doubt).
Let us remind you that Yom Kippur is not a day of fasting and asking for forgiveness from "the Lord" but it is the day when people, among themselves, put their differences behind them, fast a little by fasting (which by the way has been scientifically proven that fasting one day a year is very healthy for the human body and the metabolism of the human machine), and ask Man forgave each other for their actions. Only in Orthodox Judaism did this day become a day of fasting and work for the same hidden god who sought to prevent this very thing.
And as we said here before: I am Jewish because I was born one. I was not asked if I wanted to or not. I don't find a place not to take advantage of this or to narrate it, because in the Judaism I know and the Judaism I respect and live, one way or another, I am: very respectful.
I wholeheartedly reject Orthodox Judaism for all its delusional ways and all its idleness and negation of the other, and for all its caressing of the elderly, prostrating on the graves of righteous people and Shunor from all over the world and its cousins. This, this is not the same Judaism that can be scientifically proven in a clear and accepted way to prove its existence, its goals, its goals and above all its universality and its being the optimal arrangement of the individual's life between himself and between himself and other individuals.
It is such a shame that due to power struggles and the perpetuation of ignorance in order to control the minds of others (just as the cursed Communism and the despicable fascism did) the Orthodox Jews are slowly becoming the owners of the land, and are trying to impose their way of life and their worldview on everyone here while presenting a false representation that they are the living words of God.
And a final note: one may not agree or argue with Prof. Sofer's findings (as presented here and in their original form), but to deny the things with the argument that they are not tested and scientifically valid is impudence and brashness and regardless of whether I accept his (purely scientific) arguments or not. I read his article in the original publication of the University of Haifa, and it contains a logical and continuous explanation of the scientific methods, the scientific evidence, and on the other hand, Prof. Sofer's interpretation is appropriate for a modern academic article and in contrast to the halachic writings of some famous Abdkan...
Happy Passover,
comfort.
Good:
It turns out that there are also retarded Jews.
Not bad.
we will overcome
So what if there are those who think that belief in things that have been proven wrong is justified or that it is essential not to test the beliefs against reality?
So what if there are those who think that religious belief is open to change when it turns out that it contradicts reality?
And for the sane readers:
I apologize for using the word "thinking" to describe just a nervous spasm.
42
You are contradicting yourself. Are you Jewish, and also a Sabbath breaker? And also writes that: 'Because whoever does not observe Shabbat is not a Jew.'?
So you're not actually Jewish? So why do you write that you are Jewish? Are you lying about your name too?
Because whoever does not keep Shabbat is not Jewish.
Thanks for another proof of impermeability to the collection.
And these things were written by a Jew on Shabbat, at 14:31, unless he lives in Japan, China or Australia, he is desecrating Shabbat.
The editors here are constantly crusading for religion. You don't really think you can drive the webmasters out of their minds, do you? They are already big and wise. They also don't want to read and spread something that goes against their view - it is likely that many of your comments will not be published at all, that God forbid others will not read your opinion and may think about religion in a different way than what they are trying to present (hypocrisy and lack of democracy, some of the values they oppose, something ironic ).
Michael Rothschild:
"Why should there be a contradiction between faith and knowledge?
Really why?
Maybe because people believe things that are known to be untrue? What do you think?
We all believe in the end but the sane people test their beliefs against the facts and change them when a contradiction is revealed.
Religious belief does not allow this."
Shows exactly the mindset I'm talking about. Thinking in terms of black and white, positive or negative. Perception of religion as a "presentation of facts" instead of an attempt to understand spiritual and philosophical concepts. But let's face it, it is enough to see the lecturers wearing the kippah in the universities to understand that this opacity does not represent anything.
To all the delusional people who think they can determine whether a person is Jewish or not
I am Jewish for the same reason that a Frenchman is French and an Englishman is Englishman, I was just born that way.
Amit Steckel, you disgrace my name. Throwing words into the virtual space without hesitation and without substantiation, baseless accusations and claims will have no place on a site that represents and explains science to the masses. What is "secular science" is as true as "Or is a party for the secular"...
And do you have a criticism of the expression of opinion here? With comments like yours, the criticism can be understood...
Colleague - please behave accordingly.
Schmitz:
Not true.
It should be remembered that the war of religion in science could not begin before science discovered things that contradict religion.
Religion's opposition to science is the result of scientific discoveries that do not fit with the fabric of religion and these only began in the Renaissance.
In fact, they started a little earlier - by the ancient Greeks - but the Middle Ages, the heat of Christianity, suffocated them until the Renaissance, during which Christianity lost the reins of government.
Besides - science as an investigative methodology has only existed since the Renaissance.
Amit Steckel:
What is this specialization in demagoguery?
Did I say the website is for secular science?
No! it's a lie!
Nor could I say such a thing because the religious/secular definition does not apply to science. It applies to humans.
All in all, I wrote that those who want another site should set up another site for themselves and not try to impose the content they want on the administrators of this site who want other content from it.
It is true that the only people in Israel who coerce others are the religious, but I made sure not to point that out and you made the connection between coercion and religious by yourself.
Nor did I write that Or is a secular party. This is also your invention.
What happened?
You can't contradict the things I said so you put other things in my mouth just so you can contradict something?
I suggest to friends who still think that articles like this belong on the science website to set up a spin-off website called "The Skeptic" or "The Scientist" or something like that and move the comments there... I still haven't seen any comments that enlightened the readers or promoted science and/or society in Israel...
And just a note, science flourished during the Islamic period in the 7th-11th centuries AD, just as it sank immediately in the middle ages of Christianity, and froze for 3,000 years under the Confucians in China, and flourished under Catholic France 200 years ago... that is, under religious rule science also flourishes... and depressed…
Michael Rothschild:
Thank you for clarifying the system's position regarding the nature of the site:
"Hidan is a site for spreading secular science". (Religious scientists who are interested in science should set up a website for themselves)
And later, "Or is a party for the secular"... (religious people who wish to separate religion and state should establish a party for themselves)
Property of the right……
Moti:
You are the one who is funny.
In many countries the secular ones are increasing.
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/spages/1221750.html
A (very small) part of this multitude is the sane people who got fed up with types like you and decided to run away.
It is only in the State of Israel and the Islamic countries - all countries that in one way or another are controlled by the religious establishment - that there is the culture of the religious.
In Israel, of course, this is possible because the ultra-Orthodox - instead of working or serving in the army - can make a living at the expense of the sane and engage in delivering newborn babies.
But maybe they will really succeed and then they will be left alone and then they won't be left at all.
In general - throughout history - Judaism brought only disasters and destruction on its believers.
Amit Steckel:
What's this nonsense?
The ultra-Orthodox have been trying to talk since the establishment of the state and this discussion is also a conversation.
In the meantime - of all the enemies - we only shot at the Arabs. True - religious people shot at us and even killed our prime minister, but we always messed up.
Even on the contrary - we let many religious people live at our expense and evade any civil duty.
Do you find it wrong to try to get rid of this parasitism?
Do you find it wrong that they are trying to stop the state of war with the Arabs?
Maybe you'll come to your senses?!
jelly:
You should read Or's platform and refrain from writing baseless slanders.
This platform includes a reference to every issue - and the agenda of the party - which can be seen in the platform and in the questions and answers on the party's website, which is tens of times deeper than the change that, in total, was based on the publication of Tommy Lapid and the hatred for the ultra-Orthodox.
Amit Steckel (again):
Or is not ignoring the Israeli-Arab conflict - it's just your invention.
The point is that Or - unlike you - and this despite the explanations you received - understands that our ability to gain security is closely related to our ability to mobilize all the residents of the country for the struggle - both on the economic front and on the security front.
The situation at the moment is that a segment of the population is growing - not only does it not contribute to the struggle, but it burdens the part that does contribute - something that will soon reach a situation where there will no longer be any free potential left for improving the economy and security.
All this, of course, even before we talk about the fact that a large part of our foreign relations difficulties stems from the fact that religious people consecrate the land and try to tie the hands of the state by illegal settlements.
point:
Just as there is affirmative discrimination - there is also affirmative racism.
If you think that by calling someone a "racist" you will automatically become righteous, then you are very mistaken.
The State of Israel was founded as a refuge for the Jewish people.
This is a racist definition from the start and this, as mentioned, is corrective racism.
The original Law of Return (before the religious spoiled it) was a mirror image of the Nuremberg Laws: whoever the Nuremberg Laws approved of extermination - the Law of Return approved his naturalization in Israel.
Of course, since the ultra-Orthodox took over, this is no longer the case and the State of Israel can no longer fulfill its mission because hundreds of thousands of people whom the Nazis would have exterminated because of their Jewishness cannot receive Israeli citizenship for various religious reasons.
By the way, I also think like you that Judaism is not a culture.
Simply because there is no Jewish culture apart from religion.
Even the Hebrew language that people tend to describe as part of the culture was not the language of any of the immigrants who came to Israel.
It is a language that was revived here and is part of Israeli culture and not of Jewish culture.
Apart from religion and race, the various components of the Israeli melting pot have nothing in common.
The countries of the world unanimously approved the establishment of the state - not to preserve the religion but to preserve the race that was a victim of anti-Semitism.
Religious scientist:
There are not many religious scientists.
It is true that there is one Nobel laureate, but overall the relationship between science and religiosity is represented by what is said here:
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html
Here:
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/55/ART1/748/479.html
And here:
http://www.calcalist.co.il/local/articles/0,7340,L-3480323,00.html
And that is clear.
No scientist in his right mind would believe that God who created the world does not know that a rabbit does not give birth to a rabbit and that the Euphrates and the Tigris do not come from a common source.
Even religious scientists - if they are honest with themselves - understand this - and you are welcome to view this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d35nFvb1Wh4&feature=channel_page
This site is about science. Not only in the scientific theories but (mainly) in the popularization of science. Religion is the main source of opposition to science and as a result, in the end, many state funds are invested in cultivating ignorance and parasitism instead of promoting science and knowledge.
Therefore, the site must deal with these issues.
If you want another website - you are welcome to set up one.
By the way - it is interesting to know what is your definition of scientific information and what is your definition of opinion.
You don't have to go far to see that religious people do often call those who criticize the religion derogatory names, anti-Semitism is among the moderate ones. This is a fact that is expressed even on this website and even many times on this website. So is this an opinion? No! This is a fact!
In light of this display of confusion, I will allow myself to express the following opinion "In my opinion, you are not a scientist at all, and this is the only reason why I do not say that not only do you respect science, but that you embarrass it - because only a scientist can embarrass science if he makes statements similar to yours."
Amit Steckel:
Why would there be a contradiction between faith and knowledge?
Really why?
Maybe because people believe things that are known to be untrue? What do you think?
We all believe in the end but the sane people test their beliefs against the facts and change them when a contradiction is revealed.
Religious belief does not allow this.
Great respect for science you do - a religious scientist!
Why should there be a contradiction between religion and science, between faith and knowledge:
After all, the occupation of science is to connect a raw idea - a thesis - with the verification of the idea or its refutation. We know many theses that have circulated and some of them are still circulating in the corridors of science, without proof, and many generations of scientists are still aiming to prove/disprove them.
A thesis, then, is a belief before we find proof/refutation of it and knowledge/of its existence afterwards.
And the question arises: what about the efforts that the scientist invests in designing the thesis, before he is free to investigate it. What guides the scientist in the process of formulating the thesis? What sets the direction? Could it be faith?….
And another question: And what is the force that motivates the scientist to invest his whole soul in proving/disproving the thesis - could it be that this is also faith?....
And another question is asked: suppose he proved the thesis and it turned from belief into knowledge, but after a while we found additional observations that contradict this knowledge... what then? Belief that became knowledge continued to turn upside down and became religion... or a private case? (such as classical mechanics within modern physics...)...
Why does a website of scientific articles express personal opinions of its editors and writers?
Please, leave the debates to the sites of expressing opinions, and keep this site clean, for science only!
"The conclusion of Prof. Arnon Sofer from the University of Haifa regarding the future of the State of Israel as a religious state in 20 years" - this is his opinion/forecast and not scientific information.
Why does a survey like the one in the current article, which deals with religious views, belong to a scientific website?
"And here should come a point for thought, why don't the militants who take over neighborhoods take this into account, and also call the secular activists who are fighting them with derogatory terms, anti-Semitism being the mildest of them?"- This is an expression of opinion and not scientific information.
Will you also present political polls tomorrow, and express your opinion?!
The matter of the influence of religion on the state is a subject that does not belong to scientific information. Is the site of knowledge also trying to educate its readers to be distinctly secular and to agitate against Judaism? If so, please say it openly and don't hide behind a "scientific" excuse!!!
There are many religious scientists, including one Nobel laureate, who see no contradiction between religion and science. There are also many such people. Why stir?
Mr. period (are you Mr. Ko's uncle?)
Judaism is primarily a culture, whose derivatives (of the culture) are religion and nation.
You can remain Jewish when you give up religion.
The culture of Judaism is the Jewish religion. There is nothing else serious.
Sir point
Judaism is a culture.
Because you don't know this, it's no wonder you're uncultured.
one of the two:
Or Judaism is a religion, and as such everyone who considers himself Jewish somehow belongs to the religion.
Or, Judaism is a race, and as such anyone who considers himself Jewish is a racist. A racist without a race.
Avi:
You dressed me in Beilin clothing and that's nice, but this max could be suitable for Purim (I'm in "Beilin" and you're in "Streimel" :)...) I'm a little surprised to be disillusioned with peace with the Arabs on the left side of the map.. (rubs his eyes)
Calling for "equality of rights" and "separation of religion from the state" is a noble one that can (and should) be promoted.
The question is whether, in light of the increasing Israeli-Arab conflict (and which Or conveniently ignores), this call becomes Or's platform for resolving the (Israeli-Arab) conflict in the form of a "state of all its citizens"?
The answer to Yossi Beilinim is that we have already worn the Streimel and have not received peace, soon we will all be stormed, and this will not exactly help promote his peace.
Or will not get 10 mandates, nor two, and will not pass the percentage of blocking.
In order for a party to pass the blocking percentage, it has to come up with a social and political platform, otherwise it is not elected. It is not enough to come up with an ideology of separating religion from the state. Let's say that religion is separated from the state and stores are opened on Shabbat, there is public transportation on Shabbat, the malls are open on Shabbat and another percentage of ultra-Orthodox recruits for the Tehel. Let's say it happens. It does not solve the social problems. For example: the banks continue to charge high fees unlike European banks, the minimum wage remains low, young couples can't get an apartment, etc. In addition, people need some kind of political horizon (each according to his own view). When Tommy Lapid's Change Party arose, it provided a political and social horizon in addition to the idea of separating religion from the state.
Michael Rothschild:
I am curious to understand why I hear cries of war when it comes to Jews and peace (negotiations, reaching a settlement...) when it comes to Arabs?
Could there be room to make peace with both?
My father, in light of the increasing ignorance in the comments, it may be appropriate to publish the list about education
that I sent you ? ? ?
Catching: It's time to get up and take action. Just as Shas rose from 0 seats and gathered the weak and weak, the poor and the easy-going in society and reached 10 seats (sorry I have nothing positive to think about this bad party...) so can "Or" which is a popular party that grew from below and without celebrities and represents Me, you, and even the Dossians, they will be given full and comprehensive religious freedom (even though they are blocking our steps all the time...). Light will grow only when you and I join it, our families, our friends and acquaintances, our colleagues and all. There are only 2 more elections that we can change the situation after that….look east of the border.
Schmitz actually has a suitable and proper place for this in the society and history department. This article is not posted under the robotics or medical department…. Besides, under the rule of the religious Taliban, it is doubtful whether this website will continue and even if it does, I wonder how it will look with headlines like - "a miracle in the laboratory - researchers have succeeded...."
Try again to think how an article like this and similar ones promote the site and its goals and I am convinced that you will be able to reach a fruitful conclusion.
Again, it's rather boring to say this every time there is an article like this:
The debate here degenerates in these articles into a debate of subjective worldviews, not about religion, not about faith, but about how each ultra-orthodox/secular perceives the other.
I'm not sure that such articles should be published on a website like the scientist, under his current vision. I don't understand how such an article or discussion in talkbacks promotes the goals of the site.
Perhaps you should consider setting up a forum on the website where you can publish the articles that do not belong to science at all, and where those with an opinion can argue until it is time to read the Shema of Shacharit...
Passover that brings life to everyone
We need equality of rights and duties between all citizens.
And look how every ultra-Orthodox family has 3 children.
There are problems with democratic socialism.
For example, that a group of idiots reproduce at a triple rate of the rest of the population, change the laws of the country
include themselves as eating the main slice of the pie.
I have an idea, I don't know if it has been tried before:
Let's say they take the Ministry of Religion, and turn its budget into a voluntary tax.
I mean, those who want to will set aside money for the religious world, and those who don't want to will not set aside.
Many people will choose yes to set aside, traditionalists of sorts are still the majority,
But there will be many people who will feel great not to donate a shekel to finance Seder yeshiva and child #9 of an ultra-Orthodox family.
(I don't see secular families with child #9)
Moti
Judaism and the Torah have existed for thousands of years, yes, that is probably true.
But today - after thousands of years - even Jews who are more Jewish than you, laugh at the Torah, and at zeroes like you who see in the book (in a soft or hard cover, whichever you choose - and you can also put gold decorations and pom-poms on it)
as some kind of supreme value and it cannot be spent.
You guys are just funny.
Comfort yourself, it will be very helpful
But your party that is on the road will never ever cross a road block
And there will always remain the party of the victorious losers along with the enlightened and the liberals and the petty people of all kinds. What happened to the left parties in Israel to this day, where are they?
Judaism and Torah have existed for thousands of years. And there will always be funny people like you.
for entertainment.
Shaul: The fact that you live in "la-la-land" (a word that entered the Oxford dictionary this year and means that you live in a cocoon from reality...) does not mean that you are right. What to do and in reality there are many Jews all over the world who do not believe in God Jehovah or any other God and your definition of Judaism is correct only for you and maybe for a few others. You have to take your head out and see Jewish communities in the world, for example the humanist American Jews who do not believe in God. How exactly are they Jewish (apart from the fact that they were born to a Jewish parent??).
Lemuti: There is no doubt that your logic is that of a religious person. Every human phenomenon has cycles and "waves". For example, after the French revolution, which was a real light, there was a difficult and worrying retreat with the reign of terror, Napoleon, who strangely, despite being emperor, spread the ideas of the revolution in Europe. After his defeat, the Congress of Vienna restored the monarchical regimes, but this did not prevent the progress and continued progress of human rights and the liberal outlook in Europe, which changed slowly until the First World War. Then in the 20th century, at the same time as the establishment of liberalism, severe deviations and distortions occurred in the form of communism, fascism and nazism, but these disappeared (hopefully never again) and once again liberalism emerged as the winner. Just like that with religion and faith. Since the 18th century, the Enlightenment has been developing, and the humanistic-liberal concept and the dark reactionary forces of faith, both religious (all religions...) and secular (as mentioned: communism, fascism, etc.) raise their heads from time to time in cycles and waves, like a harmful and destructive tsunami, bringing destruction, darkness and disgrace to humanity which is trying to advance in its cultural evolution.
So let's be precise: a momentary and temporary strengthening of the reactionary forces of darkness does not indicate their righteousness or the nonsense you expressed: "There are those who manage the eyes".... The Enlightenment, humanism and liberalism will win after the forces of the religious and religious reactionaries are submitted to their kind and issue.
To remind you, the Shas party had 0 mandates before it emerged, so is Israel Beytinu. The Party of Light and Enlightenment, which was established last before the last elections, will grow, develop and lead the country on the right path - if we want to live. If not there is always the example of Rabbi Akiva and the one who was crowned by him as Messiah-bar Kochba - today we know where these two clowns led the people. If only we would follow the path of Ben Abuya who interpreted and was right.
Amit Steckel:
What people don't usually realize is that this issue has a huge impact on economic and security issues that people are actually interested in.
Out of a lack of understanding - people who are only interested in security - throw security (and with it the country) into the trash.
Saul (6):
As someone who can see which comments have been blocked (by the automated system or by a person), I allow myself to make it clear to those you managed to confuse: your comments were not published simply because they were not written at all. There is no blocked response of yours in the system.
Moti:
You succeed in multiplying because we - the secular - are stupid enough to finance you.
This is due, in part, to the fact that many of us think like Amit Steckel - that you are only a secondary problem and not the problem of the news.
If - heaven forbid - the seculars are forced to flee from here (because you are making their lives miserable) - suddenly we will see the ultra-orthodox stop multiplying and start working and serving in the army (or - alternatively - we will see the state collapse).
borrowed,
I have two objections to your last sentence in response 7.
First, what is Judaism: Judaism has two aspects. One is carrying out a completely casual collection of instructions, which have no connection to reality, such as, at the beginning of the summer not to eat bread for a week, at the end of the summer one day not to eat at all, and many other such casual instructions. The second aspect is discrimination against women, and of people who are not considered good enough Jews, and serious harm to non-Jews.
The second thing is the concept of faith. It should be clear to you that when a man says I believe, he means that he knows that the object of his trust does not exist, but I wish he did, he says to himself.
Don't worry, since the elections, every day the ultra-Orthodox make sure that their behavior is propaganda for the Or party.
In the meantime, there were dozens of violent incidents on your part such as the starving mother, the Karta parking lot, the hospital in Ashkelon, graves in Jaffa, and as Michael showed - there is not a day without some news about crimes in the name of religion, not to mention the injustice of daylight saving time ending two months before its time. You just have to make sure that there are no security incidents that will distract the public from the biggest problem - the Halacha state on the way.
This party received only 2009 votes in the 815 elections. (according to Wikipedia)
You didn't even manage to recruit only Ramat Aviv.
Good luck.
If logic is on your side and communication is on your side then how come you are so poor
I wonder why the secular ones are decreasing and the religious ones are increasing
You were supposed to convince and the majority was supposed to be on your side
Bottom line the facts point to your failure and the success of the religious
And nothing will help you change that.
As it is written, and when they torture him, he will multiply and he will break out
There is someone who manages the eyes and it is not you.
Finally there is a party that has a chance of not betraying, and now we just need the public to know about it and not be afraid to vote for it because there is no one to vote for anyway because all the parties in the Knesset today betray the secularists, or are very extreme and not suitable for everyone.
A hint that her name appears many times in chapter XNUMX of Genesis.
God forbid, my father.
I choose the appropriate party and support my world view - and I trust them to push this when they enter the Knesset.
What to do when the party you choose betrays you time and time again?
And what will you do if I insist on being a member of the Jewish heritage but do not believe in an imaginary creature? Will you force me to observe mitzvot that there is no reason to observe?
Amit - it's like wanting to be a professor and not a member of the academy.
There is no Judaism as an independent culture - it does not exist.
No one is telling you to be ultra-orthodox.
However, faith in God Jacob and the intention of spiritual fulfillment are the heart of Judaism, in fact they are Judaism itself.
How can I answer you when my comments are not published?
Is this the democracy you want to keep?
To ask: And to everyone who thinks like him - who doesn't want to be Jewish, who?? We don't want to be religious, do you understand?
Religion is an opium for the masses and is not suitable for an enlightened, liberal and humanist Jew.
There is and is Judaism without God. There is Judaism as a culture and not just as a religion. And yes, I am also ready to be called a Hebrew because the Jews are the offspring of the Hebrews.
The fact that an orthodox minority of the Jewish people defines Judaism as requiring belief in God is the problem of this delusional minority. But it's okay in every culture there are different currents and in this case - different. The Jewish culture contains (in suffering and suffering...) also the orthodox religious stream.
Only that the Jewish people will understand a rich, ancient and glorious culture. Part of it is the orthodox current which is delusional enough to think that it and its indispensible represents true and authentic Judaism while it is absolutely clear that it is a difficult and even dangerous deviation from the path that Jewish culture should follow.
But like everything that is false, the time of this delusional and fanatical current is limited.
Indeed, a sea of numbers from the CBS just to once again understand that various issues related to the quality of life in Israel, including the separation of religion and state, are on the one hand a consensus and on the other hand fail to reach the center of the public debate in Israel, as reflected in the Knesset. The Eretz coalition government, (typical of "multi-opinion" countries such as ours :)...) is able to promote only key issues on which it was elected, and pushes less key issues... (On the other hand, don't forget, the coalition has advantages such as better representation of the public in the government and therefore higher trust ). For now, there is no change on the horizon in the system of governance - I ask myself, how will you manage to raise the issue to the center of public discourse where many others (left and right) have not succeeded in the past, since the establishment of the state - again, even though there is and was a consensus on the issue! For now, as reflected in the Knesset, the most important issues in the public discourse are foreign affairs and security... Internal issues, since the founding of the state, have not been able to rise to the same level of importance.... I ask myself again - are our troubles in Israel really over and can we discuss issues that have been created by the Creator of the world?...
This is the main problem in secular culture - living on the image (or vanity in the biblical language).
like to go without and feel with
borrowed:
A man is driving on the freeway and hears on the radio that there is some crazy person on this freeway who is driving against the direction of traffic.
"One?!", he says to himself, "The company on the radio is really out of date! Almost everyone is driving in the opposite direction!"
I don't know what your problem is.
You don't want to be Jews - you are allowed.
But there is no Judaism without God Jacob. It's the basis of everything (it's even part of the name).
Start calling yourselves Hebrews - you possess Hebrew culture. no more than that.