Sagan devoted an entire chapter in his book 'Broca's Mind' to frauds and scams on the fringes of science. At the beginning of the chapter he brings the story of the oracle from Delphi or perhaps the story of the card reader from Tel Aviv
Last week, we read in several media outlets about a suspicion that Estegina from Tel Aviv allegedly promised to remove a "curse" and extorted a million shekels. Later we read that the card reader who is considered to be an "elevator" in her suspicious field took advantage of a client who was in a difficult mental state and took out a lot of money from her. The suspect's attorney: "She is known for her magical abilities."
Eli Senior reports inYNET Because the complainant contacted the card reader due to family problems that had recently arisen for her. The police believe that the detainee who recognized the client's plight began to tell her about the "curses" and indicated to her that they could be removed. The investigation revealed that the card reader would meet with the client in parking lots and deserted places and at each meeting she charged NIS 100 for the removal of the "curse".
On the other hand, the police referred only to the financial aspect of the problem and not to the actual cheating inherent in card reading. Sen. Meir Cohen, head of the fraud division in the Tel Aviv District Police, said that "We work in cooperation with the tax authorities. This is a suspect who took advantage of the client's weakness in a very ugly way and took huge sums of money."
The fortuneteller's name was not mentioned anywhere, but we would like to take this opportunity to talk about the fundamental problem anyway.
Those who follow the scientific opinion on this matter in the last hundreds of years, understand that this is vanity and ill will. To this day, all the things that are above and beyond - including spirits of people who have died, gods, demons, devils, and all these things are in the imagination of those who believe in them, and especially in those who promote them for their livelihood.
As we know we don't believe in séances, but we really wanted to know what one of the most rational thinking people imaginable thought about it. Carl Sagan, who died in 1996, wrote a monumental book in 1974 that greatly influenced my ways of thinking when I read it during my military service. The name of the book - Broca's mind.
(Carl Sagan, Broca's Mind - Chapter 5: Sleepwalkers and Merchants of Mysteries; Reason and Folly on the Margins of Science. From English, Dr. Naomi Carmel, Sefrit Maariv Publishing, 1981. The book is originally from 1974).
"In the Greece of the second century AD, during the reign of the Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius, there was a master conman named Alexander of Avonotichus. He was handsome, intelligent and free of any inhibitions, in the words of one of his contemporaries, he pretended to be knowledgeable in the wisdom of the occult and sought to make a living from this wisdom." In his most famous trick he ran into the market square, naked except for his gold-dotted loins; With nothing on his body but this and his sword, he shook his long and wild hair in the manner of zealots who collect money in the name of Kibli (also known as Magna Mater, the goddess of nature and fertility from Asia Minor), climbed to a high platform and delivered a sermon in which he predicted the coming of a new oracle. From there, Alexander hurried with the crowd following him, to the construction site of a temple and discovered a goose egg in the place where he had buried it earlier - in which was buried a snake of his own age. He opened the egg and declared that the tiny snake was the prophesied god. Alexander retired to his home for a few days and then allowed the crowds who waited with bated breath to enter. They saw a large snake coiled around his body: between now and then the snake grew to the point of being impressive."
"The snake was, in fact, a large and harmless species purchased for this purpose in Macedonia, and the crook fitted a linen mask with a somewhat human expression to its head. The room was dimly lit. Due to the pressure of the crowd, none of the guests had the chance to stay there for a long time or to examine the snake carefully. The audience came to the general conclusion that the prophet did give birth to a god."
"Now Alexander announced that God is right to answer questions provided that they are submitted to him in writing, in sealed envelopes. Left alone, he would pick up the seal or copy it, read the letter, seal the envelope again and attach a reply. People flocked from all over the empire to see the wonder with their own eyes, an oracle snake with a human head. In those cases where it later became clear that the oracle deviated from the rule of an ambiguous answer to the point of gross error, Alexander had a simple solution: he would change the answer in his records. And if he found the question of a rich man or a rich woman, who revealed some mysterious weakness or fault, Alexander would kill them without any pangs of conscience. The result of all these crooks was an annual income equivalent to several hundreds of thousands of dollars these days and a fame that only a few of his contemporaries have won."
Later Sagan describes Lamar Cain who served for 13 years as a spiritualist medium, considered a fraud even by his own admission. "He believes," writes Sagan, "and this is first-hand information, that all the demands of spirits, séances, and transmissions from the dead through mediums, are in fact scientifically misleading and that they have the purpose of abusing the sorrow and longing we feel for friends and relatives who live in the dirt."
Before repeating the question, Kane, just like Alexander, was answering questions given to him in sealed envelopes - not in a private letter, but above his pulpit in the church. "He would check the contents with the help of a hidden bright lamp or with the help of an illuminating liquid, two tricks that make the envelope transparent for a moment. He would find lost objects, present to the flock of his shepherds amazing revelations that 'no one could know' about their private lives, make contact with spirits and manifest ectoplasm (an influx typical of a medium) in the darkness of the séance...”
Sagan points out that in the years when his profits soared to record highs, Kane would have enjoyed an income equal, in purchasing power, to that of Alexander Maurontychus.
Later Sagan states that human stupidity costs a lot of money. "From the time of Alexander to our present day. Furthermore, probably since there have been human beings on earth, there have been people who have discovered that it is in God's power to become rich, provided that they pretended to possess knowledge like Moses or Tamir. "
It turns out that card readers in Tel Aviv in 2012, hundreds of thousands of dollars a year are not enough, they want to earn such huge sums from each client. And an important question that is always asked in articles of this type, how is it that the cards did not reveal to her that she was about to be caught?
What is certain is that her card reading will come out cheap in terms of the punishment compared to the punishment her colleague received in Papua New Guinea
70 תגובות
Yigal Granot,
send me Post the relevant links here.
I will not address the claim that it is "hard to believe". I don't accept God of the Gaps arguments.
The popular opinion is that there is no corroboration for the stories of the Torah and the majority of archaeologists would agree with this claim
You are welcome to deal with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_history#Schools_of_archaeological_and_historical_thought
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed
Unfortunately, I only just saw Shmulik's response, but in any case: the "Torah books" have no proof? who said? After all, the dating of the Exodus (to the 13th or 12th century B.C.) is not a proven scientific finding and there are researchers (including Israelis - such as Dr. Rudolf Cohen, Prof. Anati, Yehuda Gubrin) who generally predate all stories of the Exodus to -MB1 (ie to 2200 - 1900 BC) and this is based on finds in Arad and the Negev Mountains. If we accept their version, the Exodus must also include external Egyptian documentation (Papyrus Ipfur and others). If we want to be more precise, then we can certainly say that today it is difficult to contradict the claim that the biblical stories have one or another historical background. I would refer you to Pnina Galfaz Feller's book on the Exodus to see how accurate the book of Exodus is in describing the Egyptian reality - so much so that it is hard to believe that it was written a thousand years after the events took place (as claimed by those who consider themselves the true scholars). And there is more and there is no shortage, so it is appropriate to be humble and come and say that today we have all kinds of theories about the Torah books (including yours Adon Shmulik) and science has no real (non-political) ability to decide which of them is the correct one.
I also wonder how someone who denies the books of the Torah in general (and of course the book of the Exodus from Egypt) can explain the findings of the archaeologist Professor Adam Zertal on Mount Ebal (an altar that fits the location and is described in the book of Judah and was built by the Israelites who entered the land) as well as the installations of the "sandals" of Prof. Zertal. So it is true that other archaeologists accuse Zertal of politicization (he worked with the settlers, mercifully) but if you check the tassels of the publications of the deceivers, you can notice lies, nonsense and all kinds of tricks, all just to not accept that it is the altar of Yehoshua. Well, is it science?
legal,
(the one who responded well was replaced by Shmulik)
I don't have the energy to go through all the posts I wrote, but the claim is not that the Bible has no evidence, but the Torah, and it's not that we didn't try to search. After the conquest of Sinai Ben-Gurion sent very serious archaeologists to look for any archaeological evidence of the Exodus and none was found. Even in Egyptian archeology there is no trace of any of the stories of the Torah, not even of Moses, who was a prince of Egypt.
And I will be even more precise: there is no claim here that the stories of the Torah are not true because there is no evidence that they ever happened.
Recently, by the way, there was an article in "Haaretz", about a coin that was found, which may have written "Beit Shemesh" on it and the title was (something like): "The first evidence for the stories of the Bible". Even if it does say "Beit Shemesh" there, you will agree with me that it does not confirm the biblical stories just as the presence of London does not confirm the Sherlock Holmes stories.
to one who responds well
I have no desire to enter into the glorious debate, but one sentence jumped out at me in your response: Where did you get that there is not a shred of evidence that what is written in the Bible is true? And if there is such evidence - what will you say then? As soon as you said "there is not a shred of evidence" it is as if this is what science has established - and not it!!! If we only take what the archaeologists find in Israel (even if only the Israeli archaeologists) we will find that not everyone thinks that the Bible is a book that tells random numbers or that it is a made up book (For political reasons of the kings of Judah) But there are archaeologists who have discovered and are discovering findings that prove that at least some of the stories are proven scientific truth - so what will happen now? For example: The Tel Aviv School claims that all the stories of the Bible are nonsense and bad spirits and that the Exodus from Egypt was not and was not created, and that King David and Solomon were not and were not created and that there was never a united kingdom at all. This argument was based on the fact that no evidence was found for the existence of David outside the Bible. And see it's a miracle: some time ago an inscription was found in Tel Dan in which "House of David" is mentioned in the commentary. The members of the Tel Aviv School first claimed that this inscription was a forgery, then fate (or luck or whoever it may be and perhaps the case) had its way and another parallel inscription was found that mentions the House of David. At this stage it was no longer possible to deny the existence of David and then they moved on to the claim (and all in the itzla of absolute scientific truth) that David was a small and poor shaikh of a very limited estate and Jerusalem was a small city and perhaps even a small village (meaning David was a kind of local shaikh who had a maximum of a small shevton or a small area that he controlled). And again he saw it as a miracle: the archaeologist Yosef Gorfinkel excavated the site of K. Kaifa in the Elah Valley and his findings confirm that there was a fortified, Judean and large city there - so it is not possible that in David's time the kingdom of Judah was small or dangerous but probably a kingdom of the order of magnitude spoken of in the Bible. So what is the science here? And in general, what will happen to the statement that "there is not a shred of evidence for the stories of the Bible" (and we have not yet talked about the findings of the archaeologist Adam Zertal and how the followers of "advanced science" abused them just to prove their claim that the Bible is false) - so who is even presenting here The real science, do you even know?
Lamir (combination of makitz and meir)
I answered you regarding your following claim:
"But the problem is doubly serious because you are probably one of those who believe that the world was created by chance and that we came from star wars. Be ready to accept any delusional argument, as long as you don't identify with creationists, God forbid, and then you will have to recognize Judaism as a religion and side with all the trolls and crazy people in your eyes"
The answer I wrote is that my opinion on the subject is not related to faith in any way. Read again why it is related (easy hint: to science).
You are the type of person who doesn't realize that the era of the Bible (5000 years ago?), was shared by other people, in other parts of the world. That is, except for the Middle East, other people lived and all of them had some kind of writers who talked about the essence of creation according to the information they had. Regarding your question, I understand that it was very difficult for you to search, so here goes:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_religion
The middle part of your post was so weird, I won't address it
Regarding the last part of your words, I say that creationism is not what is written in your book "The Truth" and as I recall, in your book "The Truth" the fathers sell 12-year-old girls to men, women who were forced by men married the men who coerced them, adulterous women and homosexuals were stoned, witches were murdered by a divine order that was severe The fall of the Ten Commandments (by the way, this order to kill witches is still in force) and more and more. This is because creationism attributes to the universe a creator, a claim that cannot be contradicted but that is exactly what makes this claim uninteresting. Your book "Truth" attributes to the Creator human qualities (especially anger, hatred and envy) and a specific reference to parts of the human race, meaning that he is a personal god. Therefore creationism or deism is not theism.
The atheist is an anti-theist meaning one who does not accept a religious God since the atheist requires evidence, however, the common atheist does not try to contradict a creator. Yes, the atheist can proudly read the books I told you about and understand that the human race knows how to explain its existence even without the need for a creator (hence the pride) and what do you know, these books do not contain information about what to do with 12-year-old girls. You see, it is also possible No 12-year-old girls
Sorry for the late response
But I would love to receive references to writings earlier than the Bible that testify to a different philosophy of life than belief in one God, ancient writings that are common today and no less reliable than the Bible, I don't know.
And let's not forget that the Bible is the source of religions: Judaism, Islam and Christianity since time immemorial, when Judaism is the primary source from which the other religions cleanse their false faith, because only Judaism believes directly in one God and does not worship messengers in the name of God such as Jesus and Muhammad.
To the commenter: When you refer me to the book: "The universe came from nothing" and nothing is some dark substance that has not yet been discovered, then it is nothing that has not yet been discovered and cannot be estimated or quantified in an empirical scientific experiment because otherwise it is not nothing, but that does not indicate anything And it is not possible to change a philosophy of life from such articles, what's more, our sources also testify to creation from nothing, and if I'm not mistaken, they are more ancient than the scientists you mentioned.
It is important to understand that reality is relative to the scientific tools of the time we are in and it changes, on the other hand, creationism is a preconceived notion that has not changed for thousands of years, because it is a written testimony in the Book of Truth.
The problem for atheists to accept creationism is due to the fact that you are putting some black troll in front of your eyes
As a place: "I set the Lord against me"
from summer
Suppose a group of people stand before you and bring you writings and findings according to which they believe that viruses are the masters of the universe. How would you treat them?
to sum up,
There is a fundamental problem with my response to you, because actually the fact that I am responding to you, I seem to legitimize your response and yet: no, I do not have contempt and loathing against religious people but only against pseudo-intellectuals, religious traders, and converts like the "Rabbi". People of his type think that the Higgs is really related to God because it is mistakenly referred to as "the divine particle". This is the level. People of his type, the laughing tilapia, are a real danger, especially if you assume that boys and girls also surf this site. A man by his faith shall live, but why do I need to hear about it? You want to believe that God created everything, fine, but remember that this is a belief, while he preaches that these are facts, which is already delusional. This leads me to the next point, where I will address the nonsense you wrote: I do not "believe" that we were created by chance, but accept the fact that science (the very science that developed the computer you write about) has not bad evidence at all, to think so.
I can send you to two great physicists, who dealt with this very subject: Stephen Hawking in his book: the grand design and Professor Lawrence Krauss in his book universe out of nothing. Check Wikipedia. They, based on evidence collected over many years, with strenuous intellectual work, when they claim that we were created by chance, while you, based on a book, which I am sorry to remind you of, support the sale of 12-year-old girls to men, support marrying women who will rape them to men who will rape them, who support the stoning of women and gays And as for him, we have never found even a shred of supporting evidence for the stories he describes.
I'll stay on that side, the side with the evidence, thanks.
In any case, you are a man of faith, you should be happy in your lot, so why aren't you happy? I'll tell you why: because you're one of those who need everyone to think like you and you won't be happy until everyone believes in what you believe, so I'm sorry, although Israel is slowly getting alarmed, but I think these are the dying flickers of religion. In surveys that are conducted (usually in the western world), the group that grows faster than any other group is the group of atheists and I certainly hope that this is true. I detected a slight panic in some of the reactions of the pans after the discovery of the Higgs. They panicked a bit and it was very amusing
From the sleepy summer:
You are so convinced that you are awake, but you are probably inside a dream inside a dream inside a dream.. Be careful not to fall into limbo by mistake.. Have you seen the movie 'Inception'..?
Nachman
See, once again you automatically build theories ideas delusions again you quote a reader number, like some robot or computer, with software burned into it.
To the respondent:
Sometimes I follow your responses to "Rabbi" Nachman and detect a tone of disdain and loathing of clerics
As the "Rabbi" said, you were probably badly hurt by religious traffickers
But the problem is doubly serious because you are probably one of those who believe that the world was created by chance and that we came from star wars, be ready to accept any delusional argument as long as you don't identify with creationists and then you will have to recognize Judaism as a religion and side with all the trolls and crazy people in your eyes
It's just a shame that this is how you see reality
I rest my case
Unity is the perfect symmetry of the universe before the bang, before life, before the laws of time and before any reality.
That symmetry is the perfection and divinity that cannot be grasped and understood by the human mind
And we as Jews were sent for this mission to unite all forces to the divine symmetry, to the primordial source
Through the elimination of the ego (the whole Torah on one foot: and love your neighbor as yourself)
Later I will send quotes from the Zohar that strengthen the claim
Nachman
I really didn't understand, but the Big Bang is connected to the "Torah for Moses, God's servant", and not opposed to it.
But it would certainly be interesting if you could clarify that, thanks
Serious!!!
Everything should be done out of love and not persecution and fear
while uniting with the cosmic symmetry that was shattered from the moment of the big bang
Rabbi
I am really sorry and I hope you are not offended, in my opinion you do not behave significantly differently from the behavior of the individuals that make up any herd or band in nature, you prove to everyone who reads your analyzes and your reactions that you are absolutely controlled by the same fears and needs that were built during evolution. I know there is no chance, that you will understand, and again write another 40 50 lines to defend your existence for your life, and just like you regardless of color, sex and age
Practiced by those who believe in the 1,400 religions that exist in the world. About eight billion people.
He is also invited to relax..
to "Rabbi"
come on..
To Ernst: You wrote: "Rabbi Nachman speaks from and out of his needs, his feelings, his uncontrolled reactions, and not from some intellectual world that depends on culture, science or any other world that is material or realistic to us.."
You must understand that education and science are a tool to perceive reality as it appears to us with our senses..
And not necessarily what we see is the entire reality, therefore what is beyond reality and what is hidden from reality is beyond the intellect, because the intellect is a tool to process the information from the external world through our actual senses.
And give an example:
Let's say that a person from the 20th century in the middle of a conversation with his cell phone is returned in the time tunnel to the Stone Age or any other ancient period before the era of modern technology.
Now when a person from the primitive period sees the same person talking to a metal box, he perceives it with his senses and will not consider that he is having a conversation with an invisible person, because he has no wireless sense beyond sight.
And let's also assume that after the conversation ended, the mobile phone was destroyed or lost and the same person has to tell the primitive person that he was talking to another person without seeing him, in this case the creations change and the primitive is seen as enlightened while the enlightened person is seen as primitive because the cellular reality does not exist and is not perceived mentally at that time.
In the same way, when I claim that there were people who were prophets who called directly to a source of higher power, received messages and passed on messages, it definitely sounds delusional because it is not perceived by the senses, but it is known and proven that there were prophets for the Jewish people and more than any other people and their prophecies came true, this is not SCIENCE FICTION, either An ordinary person on a daily basis experiences a kind of prophecies such as telepathy in front of an open TV/radio receiver or telephone in predicting the song, program or person who calls him, only for one person this sense is more developed and for another a little less and for the Jew it is BUILT-IN more by virtue of his definition as a divine soul
And it is not impossible that in decades science will discover that the brain transmits wireless messages just like a wireless network
And so today it seems primitive, but science advances quickly and what is primitive today is rational tomorrow, see the case of the cellular phone and many other technological discoveries that were considered delusional in ancient times.
In conclusion:
a) Our intelligence is limited to the world of the senses but we are always in a thinking and creative dynamic and each time reveals another aspect of the complex reality in which we live.
b) On the face of it, it seems that there is no need to acknowledge the reality of a creator because nature animates itself, but this is not true
Because it is not nature that revives itself, but the Creator in his honor and by himself anew every day the act of Genesis and it is known that the Creator in his honor and by himself revives creation every day: he maintains the order in the structure of the atom so that one of the known and unknown constants in the structure of the atom does not change, he also maintains the cosmic structure and legality The universe should not be the slightest deviation, because it is known, for example, that if the sun moves a little closer or further away from the Earth
Life did not exist on the planet, if the sea did not stop at the coastline, it would flood like this and many other examples...
c) The Bible is the earliest and most original book that testifies to the creation of the world and the giving of the Torah to Moses, God's servant
One who responds….
Try once to convince the toddler, that his father is not the smartest and strongest in the world, try....
Try to convince Nachman that his god is not the wisest and most powerful in the world, try...
Believe me there is no difference….
One who responds…….
It's not hypocrisy at all, it's just blindness and deafness, which are the characteristics of that mechanism and that need, and therefore it's not possible that when that mechanism is as strong in a person as a reflex, you can change it with words of logic or reality, because there is no connection between the things.
Proof can be seen in the thousands and thousands of people of all age levels, classes, and classes who flock to hearts, to coffee readers, to prophets, to healers, so let's treat it as a phenomenon, not private, not mundane, but human.
Those who are certified are already aware that they will not move the believer more than you or me. Again, because it's a basic and natural reflex. In my opinion, of course.
Rabbi Nachman speaks from and out of his needs, his feelings, his uncontrolled reactions, and not from some mental world that depends on culture, science or any other world that is material or realistic to us..
Rafi,
It is forbidden to censor any message. We must know the level of ignorance we are dealing with. We are strong enough and have extra thick skin. Every comment, no matter how stupid, forces us to check our basic assumptions again and again. What's better than that?
The other side is the censor, and we must not become him
(The quote was not of 'one who responds well' of course)
"A. These words were said by Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai,
You remind me of the most delusional believers, those from Chabad who believe that the Rebbe is alive and well
The Zohar was apparently written by Moshe de Leon, a Spanish Jew from the 13th century.
Avi Blizovsky: There is no chance that the place of these comments will be taken by factual comments that are related to the content, and not nonsense that does not finance the matter..?
arsenate,
The problem I have with people like the Rebbe is the hypocrisy.
You will find people like him, for example, in a discussion about evolution, debating the holes in evolution and claiming with a roll of the eyes that even though many elements have not been proven, and in the same breath they will tell here, that a story unfolding more than a thousand years old, at a time when they barely knew how to read and write, is a fact. This hypocrisy amazes me.
The reason I'm having tedious debates (in a field I'm a little familiar with) is because this site is about the only site in Hebrew that includes a forum and it needs to be protected and guarded at all costs, and if we don't respond strongly to every troll, eye roll, lip candy, it too will disappear.
Why don't qualified people respond here in the relevant fields? Where are you PhDs in physics, biology, history, etc. to comment on the nonsense that is written in the forums here!!??
arsenate,
I have no problem with this claim, I have read some articles on the subject
One who responds
I believe that if you treat, as I suggested before, faith as a trait and a need built during evolution
For the needs of existence and survival, there was no manager and such long and tedious arguments.
This type of belief is completely blind and therefore the findings of the studies in the facts cannot change that belief.
In my opinion, it originates from the importance that the individual in the herd or group, believed without question in the leader or the leader,
And this is what increased the chance of that group to survive.
You will see that followers and members of parties and members of various sects behave exactly like this. Acting out of absolute faith, both blind and deaf. Therefore, for Rabbi Nachman, an injury to the faith is similar to a life-threatening situation, in his opinion.
to the rabbi,
How wonderful that you are not ashamed to post what you wrote in this forum. Well done!
Let's start
As usual, you didn't understand anything from what I wrote. I brought Jesus and Muhammad as examples of what you must believe, not in the context of whether they existed but in regard to the miracles attributed to them. You really didn't get it?
As a believer in rumors I made up, and you didn't bother to refute this claim, you must believe that Jesus was resurrected, that's what it means.
As a believer in serialized rumours, you must believe that God spoke to Muhammad, that's what it means.
After all, there is no claim that can be made, as soon as rumors are your evidence, that the rumors that define the Jewish religion are stronger than the rumors that define the Muslim, Christian, or any other system of rumors, let's say the Chinese or the Indian. On the contrary, Christians, Muslims and Indians have many more people who swear that these rumors are true, so if rumors are your evidence, you must become a Christian or a Muslim or an Indian.
The only reason you prefer the system of rumors called the Jewish religion is because you grew up Jewish, that is, because you feel like it.
And this is actually the level of your argument: you want to believe the rumors about Yohai, so you believe these rumors. But then you come here, and claim that these rumors are true, and that is already audacity.
We will continue as you have completely disgraced yourself by breaking your promise to provide us with evidence for points 2 and 3 that I have raised. And these are not rumors, you wrote: "Later on you will receive proofs for sections 2 and 3". Come on, give proof. chatterbox
We will conclude by saying that you provided a prophecy from the Bible and not from the Zohar!!!! What ignorance!!!! What did I ask for? A prophecy from the Zohar, in the positive hope that science will be able to disprove or confirm. Why did you bring a prophecy from the Bible???
And by the way, it is impossibly easy to write that only a third of the world will be saved from a major war someday. So here it is: I predict that half the world will die in the next war. So I wrote.
In conclusion:
You didn't understand why I threw Muhammad and Jesus at you
You completely disrespected yourself by not providing us with evidence regarding sections 2-3
You brought a prophecy from the Bible and not from the Zohar
On a closing note:
In a completely opposite way, the Gemara says that we in Israel are extremely lucky to have learned from the gentiles the constitutions of the gentiles, that is, democracy, separation of powers, Magna Carta, the rule of law and human rights, which include full equality of rights between men and women (we will no longer stonewall women for adultery), equal rights for gays ( We will not stone) protect all children (we will not cripple, and we will not sell our 12-year-old daughters to men) and their culture, that is, science, skepticism, rationality, literature, art. luck, luck "from heaven"
To the commenter, let me break down your arguments again:
Reporter:
"You, as a believer in fabricated rumours, must, but must believe in the existence of Jesus since multitudes of Christians (and there are several orders of magnitude more Christians than Jews) swore that they saw Jesus, after he died"
the answer:
No one contradicts the existence of Jesus, he did exist, but he was a Messianic Jew who deviated from his path and obviously twisted the Torah of Moses, which is the source.
Reporter:
"As a believer in rumours, I arranged, I must, but I must believe that God spoke to Muhammad, since there are an infinite number of Muslims who swear that God spoke to Muhammad."
The answer is once again that Muhammad existed and his believers do believe that they heard him talking to God (so let them believe what they want)
But the source is the same because Ishmael is from Abraham's seed and Jesus is Joshua, so we return to Judaism again (what a shame for you)
Now, I will skip the rest of the sections to the more interesting part and give you a prophecy that was given in the Bible and must be fulfilled:
In the book of Zechariah the prophet XNUMX it is written there that two thirds of the world will die in the war of Gog and Magog, only one third will remain.
XNUMX And I brought the third, in the fire, and goldsmiths to refine the silver, and in furnaces to test the gold; He will call on my name, and I will answer him - I said, My people are, and he will say, Jehovah my God..
In the XNUMXth chapter of Zechariah the ending is written:
Behold, the day is coming, for Jehovah; And divide your waste, near you. XNUMX And I gathered all the Gentiles to Jerusalem, for war, and the city was taken, and the houses were taken, and the women were laid aside; And half of the city went out, in exile, and the rest of the people, did not know the city. XNUMX And Jehovah went out, and fought with those nations, as they fought, on the day of battle.
There is a description later of what will happen that day but we will spare you that
I mean this is what is going to be. Who will survive the war of Gog and Magog??
The Gemara says, "Whoever wants to be saved from Gog and Magog will study the Torah,
And in acts of kindness, that is: if he engages in the Torah and keeps its commandments, and learns the Torah as a business, and also engages in acts of kindness to help others, in all ways, in a spiritual detail, he will not learn from the dead their constitutions and culture, he will learn Jewish culture, and this person will not act like a gentile but as a traditional Jew, will be guaranteed in the war of Gog and Magog
Indeed yes, indirectly this is also the reason why I gave examples of "cosmic" events that man currently has no ability to change or predict, and not of matters related to human behavior.
Gilad, I would add: the prophecy must be kept a secret from those people who will fulfill the prophecy, otherwise, it is necessarily a self-fulfilling prophecy. The story of Oedipus as an example
arsenate
I am proud to be among "these people", who created science for us, against the efforts of religion, who, among other things, built the computer on which you wrote your message and are the only hope for our continued existence here
And following the protocol "Miracles of Prophecy", it is clear that:
1) All prophecies should all be recorded in advance (a prophecy that was not recorded, before the event is thrown in the trash).
2) They are all checked over time if they have been met or not.
3) The chance of the result of the experiment being what it is compared to what is expected by chance, or to the chance based on the knowledge we have today.
Section 3 is very important, because otherwise we can simply predict what is expected and reasonable according to our knowledge, and thus it is guaranteed that most of the prophecies will come true. For example, in the summer we will predict that "it will not rain tomorrow" (or as the forecasters call it - "lookout for tomorrow - similar"). Or I will predict that a stone will fall down and reach the ground in 2.6 seconds. This is great wisdom, but this is called science - the only one that allows predicting the future at some level.
Even 50%-50% prophecies are not particularly impressive if they come true. Success in guessing the side on which a coin will fall does not indicate special prophetic power. I hope everyone understands that.
It's all about statistics.
The rarer the events are a priori, and the "prophet" manages to predict them nevertheless, the more his "prophetic power" increases.
For example - a prediction of a meteorite crash at a certain point on a certain date (contrary to the claims of the experts in the field that they see no reason to think that such an event will take place) - this is a strong prophecy. Because the event is very rare and the chance that it will happen by chance exactly as described is extremely small.
(I purposely did not give an example of a plane crash, because it is possible that the prophet has a connection with terrorists for example).
Success 20 times in a row in guessing the side on which a coin will fall is also an extremely rare event.
And there are things that are not only rare, but also contradict the laws of nature known to us, and success in predicting such an event is even stronger, for example, predicting a solar eclipse on a date that contradicts all calculations. That would absolutely amaze me.
And speaking of predicting the future, I wrote a few things about it in the past:
* And today we will learn to predict the future - http://wp.me/p1K6uX-3a
* Prophetic dreams - was it, or did I dream a dream? – http://wp.me/p1K6uX-2x
* Future sensing experiments - another mountain that gave birth to a mouse - http://wp.me/p1K6uX-z5
And my forecast for today is still hot.
Rabbi Nachman
There are people who do not wholeheartedly believe in what is written and/or narrated, no matter if it is in a newspaper or in Genesis, in history books, in lectures, etc. As long as they are not presented with findings or facts from the world of Khmer, which support the information before them.
You are different from those people, most of the knowledge in your world is built from information that lacks the same proofs and facts, for example you do not have a physical part of the tablets of the covenant, or a remnant of the fig leaf that Eve wore, or a remnant of the burning bush, and not remnants of Noah's ark, yet you believe and they are due to lack The evidence is not.
I hope I managed to bring you a little closer to the way of thinking of those people.
Rabbi Nachman
If I understood correctly, in your reply to the commenter
If a number of people who do not know each other "when another so-and-so is not related to the previous so-and-so" testify before you under oath, that Buddha helps them succeed in life and answers all their requests, according to you "indeed this is also considered testimony and this testimony was not hidden...
To Rabbi Nachman Mazran,
Of course you didn't understand
You dos have to understand something:
1. The burden of proof is on you. The burden of proof is on you for each and every claim.
2. What is given without proof, can be revoked without proof
3. Claims outside of physics (Yoga as Dumbledore) need very strong evidence or in English extraordinary claims demands extraordinary evidence.
4. Not accepting a claim does not mean that I contradict the claim, but until it is proven, I do not even have to address it.
Let's dive in:
You, as a believer in fabricated rumors, must, but must believe in the existence of Jesus since masses of Christians (and there are several orders of magnitude more Christians than Jews) swore that they saw Jesus, after he died
You, as a believer in organized rumours, must, but must believe that God spoke to Muhammad, since there are an infinite number of Muslims who swear that God spoke to Muhammad.
Do you accept the words of Jesus and Muhammad?
On the other hand, I do not accept claims that rumors about the existence of Dumbledore, sorry, Rabbi Yohai, that lasted from the second century to the 13th century are evidence, certainly not strong enough for the huge claims you make here.
Try telling your friend a story and ask to hear the story passed on to a third friend, and ask to hear the story from the third friend a week later. The chance that the story will remain unchanged, without exaggeration, without confusion in the facts is poor. Now take my experiment and stretch it to over 1000 years. really. How gullible does one have to be to believe such nonsense.
I do not accept the fact that the Torah in the Old Testament passed without disruption, but Mila, this is not the subject of the debate, but Bar Yochai is not a Torah in the Old Testament and therefore there is no "obligation to remember" his stories.
And again, I want to summarize: so far your only "proof" that he existed, these are rumors, which for you are sufficient evidence but for me, these are not sufficient evidence. If they were enough, rumors about the Higgs particle would have been enough and we wouldn't have had to build the Zern accelerator, which you know better than anyone, thanks to your name. In your free time, check out what 5 Sigma is
In addition, I'm sorry to tell you, just as there is 0 proof of the Torah, as far as I know, there is no proof that either King David or Samuel the prophet existed and I am eagerly waiting for sections 2-3 and beyond, to a much more interesting topic which is the challenge I posed to you, the pans
Give a prophecy from the Book of Zohar about our future, something that can be touched, disproved. see you. What did Shimon say about string theory for example (but only an example, don't get caught up in it)? I ask, because after it is proven to be true, you will come to tell us that Shimon has already spoken about it, so why are we surprised, alternatively, if it is proven that a theory is not true, you will tell me that Shimon already then said that it is not true. You always sit on the fence, waiting and waiting but always always only after science has already proven something, you tell us you already knew it
So go ahead, give a prophecy in this forum that we can disprove or confirm, go ahead.
to the respondent,
I want to understand: you claim that it is not possible to prove the existence of an entity if it does not have archeological documentation, photographs, writings or any tangible documentation, except by reference.
It's hard to believe, but if so, you are very wrong because the absence of actual evidence is not proof of the existence of the entity.
And I will give an example: when so-and-so tells you about an unknown existence that you do not know, then doubt exists and doubt does not
But when another so-and-so, who is not related to the previous so-and-so, also tells you about the existence of an unknown person, and so more and more so-and-so people tell about the same unknown person, then indeed this is also considered testimony and this testimony was not hidden because this type of testimony is still used today
And they coordinate. What's more, it's not clear why it's so hard to believe that there was a man named Shimon bar Yochai, just as there is King David and Samuel the prophet, there is also Shimon bar Yochai, and there are still people called by these names, which is also a wonderful testimony to the continuation of the line of Hebrew names.
The same is the case with the people of Israel who gathered from all corners of the world and there was no communication between them before the age of media and the internet, they all testify unanimously to the existence of Shimon bar Yochia and many other righteous people, therefore this is a conclusive testimony of various so-and-so's.
Later you will receive proofs for sections 2 and 3
To Rabbi Nachman Mazran
What a joke it is to bring a page from Wikipedia as proof that it existed. Just a joke.
The page is a description of what is known about it, but nowhere on the page is any proof given outside of the Talmud that it existed.
For example, the proof that Ben Gurion existed is in the fact that he was photographed many times, well documented, people living now who met him and will testify to this. This is pretty good proof that he existed. Bar Yohai has no such proof.
It was clear to me that people would get caught with this nonsense, so I bothered and wrote that it would probably be relatively easy to bring evidence that it existed, so bring evidence. But that's not the issue!
Prove that the Book of Zohar, which emerged in the 13th century (according to the same holy Wikipedia) was written according to what Rabbi Yohai said!!!! Give one tangible evidence!!!
So you have a very difficult task ahead of you:
1. It is proven that the man existed
2. It has been proven that the Book of Zohar was indeed written according to his words
3. Show a direct connection between his "prophecies" and reality
Beyond that, answer the challenge: give a prophecy from the Book of Zohar about our future, something that can be touched, refuted. see you. What did Shimon say about string theory for example? I ask, because after it is proven to be true, you will come to tell us that Shimon has already spoken about it, so why are we surprised, alternatively, if it is proven that a theory is not true, you will tell me that Shimon already then said that it is not true. You always sit on the fence, waiting and waiting but always always only after science has already proven something, you tell us you already knew it
So go ahead, give a prophecy in this forum that we can disprove or confirm, go ahead.
To the respondent:
"Bring evidence (outside the Talmud) that there was one Shimon bar Yochai..."
Here is proof:
http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A8%D7%91%D7%99_%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%A2%D7%95%D7%9F_%D7%91%D7%A8_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%97%D7%90%D7%99
enough find? Or should the man also be raised from his grave?
to the dawn of the sleeping ones
I don't have a problem with slander, in fun, but I don't remember writing unsubstantiated things, and when I did, I made sure to admit that I might be wrong here. This is about your claim that I took a risk for the umpteenth time, and the readers will judge it regarding the 5 posts (or something like that) that I wrote here.
Beyond that, how convenient it is to describe events from the century from 600-1000 from the height of the 13th century!!!, when the Book of Zohar probably appeared.
How convenient to write in a book from the 13th century, which claims, without any evidence, that it describes things that Shimon bar Yochai said, stories about events that happened 300 years or more before it was written. It's just a ridiculous claim, but perfectly suitable for people like you.
This is not a prediction, it is a form of writing history and the historians will forgive me for this sentence!!.
Hence, since everything said by Mikitz HaNradim is given without a single proof of the correctness of the things, it is possible to cancel without any reference. Bring evidence (outside the Talmud) that there was one Shimon bar Yochai, let's start talking. It's easy, because it's quite possible that she's such a person, although I don't believe for a second that he was Dumbledore. Bring evidence that he wrote the Book of Zohar, which according to the archaeological evidence, was written around the 13th century and not in the 2nd century, by Jews who were influenced by the Christian nonsense, let's start talking, until then, I am exempt from commenting on the nonsense you wrote.
You keep inventing a mystery where there is no mystery. A book was written, which absorbed all the horrible elements of the Christians, in the 13th century. Any description in it of past events is not a prophecy, by definition.
Beyond that, let's challenge you: give a prophecy from the Book of Zohar about our future, something that can be touched, disproved. see you. What did Shimon say about string theory for example? I am asking that after it is proven to be true, come and tell us that Shimon has already spoken about it, alternatively, if it is proven that a theory is not true, you will tell me that Shimon already then said that it is not true. You always sit on the fence and tell us, after science has proven something, that you already knew so much in advance, so go ahead, give a prophecy in this forum that we can disprove or confirm, go ahead.
People, don't let such nonsense pass you by, not on this site!
Allow me to intervene in the discussion, especially to one who responds well and took an uncalculated risk for the umpteenth time..
The Arab occupation of the Land of Israel lasted from 640 to 1071, that is, about 400 years. The Seljuks, who were Muslim Turks, conquered the land, from the Arabs, then the Fatims, who are also a Muslim dynasty, ruled the land until the Crusaders conquered it, and again Salah al-Din conquered it from the Crusaders in about 1200
In short, the government during the Arab period was divided between the Umayyad House, the Abbasid House, the Seljuks and the Fatimids.
There are also many quotes from the introductions, here are the quotes I have collected for you after much effort from the Zohar
This is what is stated in the Holy Zohar regarding the control of the Arabs in Israel:
"Rabbi Haya said to Rabbi Yossi this is what I heard from the mouth of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai... For four hundred years that minister of the Bnei Ishmael stood and asked before the Almighty and said to him: He who is circumcised has a part in your name?
He (God Almighty) said to him: They are.
(Ishmael's servant) said to him: And Ishmael, who was circumcised, why does he not have a part in your name like Isaac?
He (the Almighty) said to him: Isaac was circumcised properly and properly and this is not true (Ishmael was only male and not Pharaoh - and it is as if he was not male). And no more except that these are properly infected with it for eight days and these (the sons of Ishmael) are far from it for a few days (circumcised only at the age of XNUMX).
(Ishmael's minister) said to him: Nevertheless, since he was circumcised, will he not have a good reward for it?
Alas for that time when Ishmael was born in the world and circumcised, what did the Almighty do (according to the claim of Ishmael's minister), distanced the sons of Ishmael from the highest, and gave them a part below in the Holy Land, for the Word among them.
And the future children of Ishmael will rule over the Holy Land, while it is empty of everything, for a long time, just as their word is empty without perfection. And they will delay the children of Israel from returning to their place, until that right of the children of Ishmael is exhausted."
And everything is fulfilled word for word:
A. These words were said by Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, how did he know that the sons of Ishmael would come here, and rule for a long time?! (Muhammad was born later in the seventh century AD, about 1300 years ago).
B. How did he know that the land would be desolate for a long time?
third. After all, over ten kingdoms ruled the land during the exile (see above the prophecy "The Wall is not a sword for the world), how did the Holy Zohar know that the people of Israel would meet the Ishmaelites here?!
d. How did he know that they would prevent the people of Israel from returning to their land, and that there would be a hostile relationship between the Jews and the Arabs - a Palestinian problem?!
Now that I have brought citations and proofs of the Arab rule, will you wake up from your slumber? Will you doubt doubts
Yours, as Rabbi Nachman Mazran beautifully defined skepticism, or you will fight for your honor until the last doubt.
By the way, the Ottomans weren't even Turks, it was simply a family line that accepted Islam.
I'm taking a risk here, because I'm not the historian, but when exactly did the Arabs rule the country? Do you mean the Ottomans?
And beyond that, bring the references to what you say. Write here the exact quote of each "prophecy" and "prophecy". I wondered how all the historians and philosophers and physicists missed the power of Kabbalah to prophesy and instead resorted to establishing Tzarn.
Regarding the people of Israel who returned to their land, you are confusing a prophecy with a prophecy (no big deal, just a few letters that sound similar, changed places).
Unbelievable that people are still trying to prove their faith on the subject. delusional
Nachman, the Zohar is a thousand years newer than what the Kabbalists are telling you, and besides, if something needed ten layers of interpretations and translations to constitute a prophecy, this is a problem, because anything can be prophesied with a little stretching of the interpretations. And as for the question - even a million testimonies are not enough.
So if this is not convincing enough, another testimony that is not silent:
About 1800 years ago, the Zohar states four things: that the Arabs will rule the land during the exile for a long time, that the land will be desolate and empty during their rule, the people of Israel will return to their land" and then the Arabs will still be in the land, and that the Palestinian problem will delay the Israelites from returning to their land.
And another:
A prophecy gave that the Western Wall would never be destroyed. If this prophecy was written by a man out of his mind, how did he take such a huge risk, to commit in advance to one wall, a remnant of an ancient temple, that will remain in existence and will never be destroyed? And no more, after all, during the two thousand years of exile, many wars passed over Jerusalem, and it was destroyed and rebuilt at least nine times! What will naturally guarantee that the wall will be guaranteed and immune from all these wars?
Okay, how much evidence is needed to break the threshold of skepticism, is it even possible to doubt the skeptic who prevents the connection of the Jew to his roots
to the rabbi,
I am not sure that there is any archaeological proof that these people ever walked across the Earth and that the events they describe ever took place.
You wrote a number of things about something so that you know: for the Torah, there is not a single historical proof, and it's not that we didn't look for it. After we conquered Sinai, Ben-Gurion sent archaeologists to dig in Sinai and find evidence of the Exodus and our existence there, and nothing. Nothing was found to confirm anything from the Torah. Absolute zero. Also, there is no mention of Moses or the Hebrews in the Egyptian writings: not in the pyramids and not anywhere. So what is given without evidence, can be revoked without evidence.
By the way, before you jump in, I know that the prophets are not in the Torah.
Let's assume for a moment that they did exist. What my father is explaining to you is the subject of silent testimony. I mean, what about all the crap they predicted and didn't happen? And by the way, the stories of the prophets are important because of their moral essence and not because of the prophecies.
In addition, I want to remind you of the self-fulfilling prophecy. If it is written that we will return to Israel, and almost everyone is aware of this (because it is in the prayers), the fact that we have returned is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I would be impressed by the level of the prophecy, if the prophecy was not known and only after its fulfillment, it would have been revealed to us.
Avi Gilad Anati and the rest,
Indeed, there are scientific tools for predicting the future. And they prove themselves every day. They are called probability and statistics, which are the best tools invented to date for determining the chances of occurrence of various events. They are of course not perfect, but their successes are "a little" better than those of the various oracles and istegnins.
Recommended on the subject of Peter Bernstein's book - Against the Gods
http://www.ybook.co.il/htmls/%D7%A0%D7%92%D7%93_%D7%94%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%9D.aspx?c0=21879&bsp=13582
Rabbi Nachman Mazran, you probably won't catch the answer.
If someone rambles that much and also has knowledge of the context, it is clear that he will be right in making some predictions, especially if he does not attach numbers to them - so severe weather, for example, can be localized rain, or a hurricane that stretches for hundreds of kilometers. It is therefore clear that this assumption will be justified to a high degree. This is roughly the type of prophecies in your book, (these of course were not written retrospectively). And even if it is something rare it may happen. Even an event that occurs one in a million was experienced by 7,000 people around the world.
Not delusional comments at all, Ernst claimed:
"To this day, as far as I know, no person has been able to prove, even once, that he is able to predict the future,"
And here I brought the prophets and the prophecies, there were many cases where the prophecies came true:
For example, the city of Babylon was the capital of the Babylonian Empire and it ruled over nations and countries. And here Jeremiah and Isaiah prophesy, contrary to logic, that the city of Babylon will not only be destroyed and become a heap of ruins, but also a promise: "You shall not dwell forever", an eternal desolation!
And before us is a prophecy that goes down to the details, and it is amazing to see how well it was adapted to its details: "And the Lord returned you to Egypt in ships on the way that I told you you would not see any more, and you sold yourself there to your enemies as slaves and handmaids, and there was no buyer" (Deuteronomy XNUMX:XNUMX).
Avi,
Just commenting that given the fact that Heinlein was not a religious enthusiast, to say the least, I don't think he would have joined the current tea movement, which has been taken over (like the Republican Party) by evangelical Christians.
We need to worry about Rabbi Nachman Mazran's delusional comments
The tea movement combines extreme libertarianism that does not allow any government intervention and any safety net with evangelical Christianity. The emphasis is actually on the economic issue, which is why, for example, the Koch brothers - owners of large oil businesses and prominent in the financing of the Tea Party, make sure to use their money to threaten any politician who dares to support green energy - will not be re-elected. Both because this will cause them personally losses and also apparently for an ideological reason because government encouragement for anything, including green energy, is fundamentally bad.
Today I believe on the contrary, that government encouragement is a good thing and a safety net is an essential factor, because the rich will really know how to manage, but you have seen what happens to people who have deteriorated.
To Ernest:
What about all our prophets, who predicted the rise and fall of kingdoms: Babylonians, Romans
And a prediction of a return from exile to Israel
Not mine, of the translator of Heinlein's books.
Father, if I understand correctly, this is your translation of TANSTAAFL meaning there is no such thing as free meals.
By the way, Professor Kroes and Nobel Prize winner for physics Professor Steven Weinberg say that the universe is the ultimate free meal.
Regarding Heinlein, he is a libertarian who advocates personal initiative and work but the tea movement today is a movement of evangelical Christians and he was, as far as I can remember, anti-religion.
Below is a selection of quotes from his writings
http://atheism.about.com/library/quotes/bl_q_RHeinlein.htm
I answered
To this day, as far as I know, no person has been able to prove, even once, that he is able to predict the future, of course, being under the supervision and control accepted in science. And this is because there is no soul or spirit in the universe, everything is matter and energy, and when you claim luck, for prophecy in front of a person who sees the world as I do, he should simply answer you that it is only the world of hallucinations, if he does not answer you in this way or similar, he is lying to you and to himself.
I answered, I have news for you,
A blind monkey would do well to pick stocks from an average mutual fund
And I didn't say it:
http://wp.me/p1K6uX-bY
"Luck is that there is no such thing - a real fortune teller" So you believe in luck but not in horoscopes?
How do you determine that there is no real fortune teller? Is this a scientific determination? Is there any research that shows that certain people cannot predict the future with a probability lower than 100%
If you can see the future with 75% accuracy, it's still not enough to guess the lottery, but it's enough to make a living from cards or to be a broker
The luck is that there is no such thing - a real fortune teller. …
Today, by the way, I would read Heinlein with completely different glasses, even an innocent phrase like 2th century (XNUMX points for whoever explains what it is). Today I would define him as a Tea Party man, a movement that causes a lot of damage to the USA in general and science there in particular.
Leave nonsense! It doesn't matter at all what Mr. Carl Sagan would say about it.
What is very important is what the genius of the generation Robert Heinlein said about it.
And what Robert Heinlein said about it, is that you can tolerate a fake fortune teller, but a real fortune teller should be shot immediately.
Avishai,
So why don't we prohibit by law any occupation that earns a living that cannot be validated, rabbinate for example, theater, painting, jokes about Poles...
The time has come to establish in the law a ban on making a living through the practice of mysticism. To hell with freedom of occupation!
Lair:
There is a fundamental difference between fraud in coffee and fraud of tycoons or ministers!
in coffee:
If you want it, buy it, if you don't want it, you won't buy it.
Not so with tycoons or ministers:
You will want what is good, you will not be forced to.
And the most important difference:
The ministers were elected out of the public's trust to fulfill a role. The choice was made out of trust in their honesty and skills.
The choice was made on the assumption that they would take care of the public good.
The minister has a responsibility to the electorate.
"And if I want to sell him the car, I'm not right"
We also wrote about them, just a month ago (how time flies).
https://www.hayadan.org.il/expensive-baba-160612/
All the readers in the coffee, her daughter, in the market, in cards this is small money, the big money is rolled by the Baba of sorts, eight billion NIS according to the estimate of the Income Tax.
The only fundamental problem in this case is cheating.
As long as people want to receive the services of readers in coffee or cards or homeopathy or any other factually invalid patent, and willingly pay a few hundred shekels for the time and advice, this is normal supply and demand and it joins countless entertainment and other factually invalid acts.
One can also ask what Carl Sagan or Ehud Olmert would say about any other act of deception and fraud, and there is no fundamental difference between fraud in coffee and fraud of tycoons or ministers.
To my father, please update the Soyuz spacecraft that was launched today, Sunday
I answered That's exactly the point. There is no scientific basis for predicting the future, otherwise we would all be rich, what with the fact that she did not foresee that in the future that customer would complain. Therefore I am forced to blacken all witches because of the actions of 100% of them.
Your attempt to blacken the whole spiritual field in Israel according to one witch reminds me of the witch hunter of the Middle Ages.
What is certain is that you don't even understand science, because a basic law in science is that based on one story you heard that cannot be accurately reproduced, a complete theory cannot be established.
The question then arises as to what is the source of the stories you describe here and for that I am thankful that I do not have an answer and the only field of accepted disciplines that you would agree to receive an answer from would apparently only be a psychologist.
Avi,
How different do you think this is from people who claim to "understand the market"
Do you give them the best of your money to play with in the stock market?
DA Once in my life I participated in a séance experience, with friends and the cup moved.
(It's hard to move the glass when 5 different people's fingers are touching not gently touching it).
The shift was significant, the cup moved to 'Yes' on the letter board.
Unfortunately that was the last thing I saw from the seance, because the answer was yes to the question of whether the spirits want me to leave the room…….