Whatever the astrological school, whatever the qualities attributed to each celestial body, there must be agreement on one thing: people born within a few minutes of each other (and therefore under the influence of the same constellation of celestial bodies) should be surprisingly similar in character and during their lives. This is at least the basic idea of astrology. is it true?
Whatever the astrological school, whatever the qualities attributed to each celestial body, there must be agreement on one thing: people born within a few minutes of each other (and therefore under the influence of the same constellation of celestial bodies) should be surprisingly similar in character and during their lives. This is at least the basic idea of astrology.
If we think for a moment, everyday life does not confirm the claim of astrology. Identical twins are indeed endowed with many similar traits (since their genetic load is the same), but twins who are not genetically identical are no more similar to each other than siblings (who are not twins). How does astrology explain this? If the state of the celestial bodies is what determines a person's personality, we would expect to see a lot of similarity even between non-identical twins. Of course, it is possible to claim that there is a combination of influences: genetic load, environment and the alignment of the sky at the moment of birth, but such a claim needs to be researched: does the influence of the elements of the sky constitute a significant, negligible, or non-existent addition to the other two factors?
There are many anecdotes about this. Researchers compared famous figures born on the same date (although astrologically, a difference of a few hours translates into a huge difference in the birth chart), and found surprising similarities.
In 2009, Dr. Elisabetta Levin published her book "Heavenly twins” in which she details comparisons between the biographies of 18 pairs of famous people who were born up to 48 hours apart. These 18 samples were collected from hundreds of pairs she tested. Excerpts from the book are given Read here.
There is no doubt that a lot of work went into writing the book, but can it testify to the existence of any phenomenon? Here are some points to think about:
- Every day, several are born across the world hundreds of thousands of people, meaning that every day hundreds of thousands of new heavenly twins are created! Undoubtedly 18 examples collected from the last 100 years is not a sufficient sample.
- The sample is far from being a representative sample. The mere fact that people became famous can indicate a lot about similar character traits, or common motivational factors. It's a bit like concluding that all people are highly cooperative, based on an internet survey. It must be assumed that the very choice of these people and not others to answer the survey already distinguishes them from other people who chose not to answer, and it is no wonder that qualities such as "cooperation" would be expressed in this population to the extent that it does not represent the entire population.
- But the strongest argument against this type of research is that the researcher chooses everything, in retrospect, according to the theory that guides him. He chooses the pairs to test, chooses what kind of similarities he looks for (after reading the biographies), and publishes the pairs that most likely supported his theory (18 out of several hundred in our case). In this way, similarities can be found between dozens of other famous figures who were not born on the same date. (This is also how the prophecies of Nostradamus are interpreted, for example - after an event occurs, we go back and read through all the hundreds of vague prophecies he published, and finally find something, which in a certain interpretation seems appropriate).
Elisabetta herself says: "I felt like I was a kind of hunter of hidden patterns and sometimes my breath was taken away by the revelation of an inner similarity between things that had never been connected." "We knew them for many years and did not notice the connection between them - this sentence is repeated in conversations with readers who were surprised to discover for themselves the wonders of the heavenly coordination in their relatives, acquaintances or famous people" - that is, in many cases no one noticed any similarity, but only Having assumed that there should be such a similarity, he searched, and finally found similarities of one kind or another. As it is said: "You touched and found - believe."
The human brain specializes in recognizing patterns, correlations and order. It has been adapted to this over millions of years of evolution, to ensure our survival in the complex and dangerous world in which we live. Our brain specializes in it to such an extent that sometimes we instinctively recognize patterns, correlations and order even in places where they don't exist. All the more we will find them if we search "with power"!
I will give a short parable to demonstrate how nothing can be learned from such work.
I claim that all the students who study in the same class at school are the same (or very similar, let's call them the same for the sake of simplicity). And I will prove it to you!
Here, take Moshe and Yosef from grade 1 - both are exactly the same height: 125 cm. Take Miriam and Havshelet from grade 2 31.4 - the weight of both is the same: 3 kg. Reuven and Yotam received exactly the same grade in the national math test, and they really study in the same grade - the 2rd grade. Nimrod and Yuval Ma'XNUMX - both are chronically late.
In this way, I provide you with 20 more examples, (or 2000, if you give me enough time), publish a book, do an interview on TV, and that's it. We have proven. Students who study in the same class at school are the same. Are you convinced?
How do we perform such an experiment properly?
We will have to define in advance if we are comparing height, weight, score in national math tests or the degree of tardiness (or some combination thereof), we will have to randomly select many pairs from the entire school, give a score for the degree of similarity between them in all the variables selected first, and only then check which classes they are from are arriving With the help of professional statistical analysis, we will check whether there is a relationship between the classes of origin and the degree of similarity in the variables we tested.
In exactly the same way, if we want to test the claim regarding similarity between "astrological twins", a study must be carried out on a much larger number of people, those whose time of birth is known with an accuracy of minutes rather than days, and those chosen at random from the population (who did not exhibit a special life cycle, such as being famous for example).
Beyond that, care should be taken that whoever evaluates the degree of similarity between each pair of subjects does not know whether they were born on the same date or not, and that the compared factors are defined in advance and not chosen after it is known that they were born on the same date. Only in this way can the bias of "seeing the desired" be cleared.
We will then move from anecdotal descriptions to studies.
The first systematic study About twins was published in 1994. The researchers gathered 128 people who were born on 6 different dates but found no striking similarities in the results of personality tests, appearance, handwriting, names, interests, profession or life events. At the same time, the researchers claimed that there was a greater relative similarity between those born closer to each other. A review of their findings By other researchers she showed that the "positive" results originated from the wrong way in which the data was processed. When the processing was done more professionally, the effects that even slightly supported astrology disappeared.
Geoffrey Dean, a British researcher who was also an astrologer by profession, also performed Such research is extensive (starts on p. 187). Geoffrey located a database of accurate birth data for over 2,000 people born in London between March 3 and 9, 1958. The database was built by another group of researchers who followed these people at ages 11, 16 and 23, and collected 110 different variables for each of them which included for example intelligence level, academic achievements, anxiety level, sociability, aggressiveness, weight, height, hobbies, accidents and marital status. What a treasure for research!
Jeffrey calculated the degree of similarity between every two people in the database according to the values of the above variables, and then checked whether people who were born minutes apart from each other (with the same star chart) are more similar than those who were born a few days apart from each other, as which is expected to happen if there really is in astrology.
The result was negative. Astrological twins were no more alike than non-astrological twins.
That is, even the twin tests that were carried out did not show any validity to astrology, whatever its school of thought. People born under the same constellation are no more alike than people born under different constellations.
In the next entry we will present the findings of the leading astrology researcher, according to all parties, both astrologers and skeptics: Michel Gauquelin. On the one hand, Goklin refuted almost every astrological claim in his studies. On the other hand, he discovered a certain effect that excited the best researchers for decades.
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Hello astrologer,
I don't know where you got the inference that someone only tested external imagination. What is not explicitly stated:
"And collected for each of them 110 different variables that included, for example, intelligence level, academic achievements, anxiety level, sociability, aggressiveness, weight, height, hobbies, accidents and marital status." (link to the article attached to the article). For each such feature a correlation was sought.
These studies were carried out by astrologers or astrology researchers who have been doing this for many years. Perhaps their school of thought is different from the school of thought you advocate, which only emphasizes the problematic nature of the issue.
I'm just quoting them. I did not pretend to be an expert in the field myself.
You are welcome to contact them and express your claims, or send a response letter to the journal in which the things were published, as is customary in the research world.
A quote from what you wrote: 'Jeffrey calculated the degree of similarity between any two people in the database according to the values of the above variables, and then checked whether people who were born minutes apart from each other (with the same star map) are more similar than those born with a difference of A few days apart, as expected to happen if there is anything in astrology.
The result was negative. Astrological twins were no more alike than non-astrological twins.
That is, even the twin tests that were carried out did not show any validity to astrology, whatever its school of thought. People born under the same set of heavenly bodies are no more alike than people born under different heavenly sets.'
You claim that it is expected that people born close to each other, minutes apart, will be similar to each other and you claim that this is how it is expected to happen if there is anything in astrology? Coated by whom? Only by you! Astrology does not claim any human imagination. In fact, it claims an emotional similarity or a similarity between emotional and other models between people born between close dates or even at the same point in time or close to it and in the same place on earth, a possibility that is extremely rare. Astrology is not seriously concerned with external form but with internal emotional structure, which means that everything you wrote about your conclusions is a kind of sketch and shows that you really have no idea what astrology is, what it is based on, and what it wants to prove. Evidently, the example of Goklan that you will give later may also explain to you something more about what astrology is looking for, but this is also not accurate: a very in-depth search in astrology is based on specific parameters within the birth chart, and since you have no real idea of what it is and have not studied the subject, you produce A lot of text that doesn't actually mean anything that you yourself don't want to hear. Or in other words - there are those who believe in it. I'm Gilad - no. So what did we do here? Did you report what is there and what did you actually innovate? The truth - nothing. A lot of words about nothing.
Father, are you sarcastically joking or are you serious?
There are literally records that have revealed thousands of baby fertilization dates for the learned researcher.
Gilad What does science say about the connection between the letters of the Aleph Beit and the creation of everything around us.
How does the shape of the letter A on paper affect the sound a person makes when he sees the letter A? Does science have proof that the letters by virtue of their shape create reality?
You said you said.
I'm sure they compared several thousand predictions from birth charts according to the moment of fertilization and several according to the moment of birth and the findings were clearly in favor of the moment of birth...
monument
The baby's first breath defines the moment of birth - a state of independent life independent of the mother inside the womb.
And why birth at all?
Why not fertilization?
Of course I was aware of this evasion method and therefore prepared enough answers ahead of time:
1. There are enough people there for there to be many and many at that "hour". True - maybe not in the same minute or second, but even with the resolution of a second, astrology has a problem because at the same time that Hitler or Einstein were born (at the exact same time - not only at the same second of the year but even in the same year) about 4 people were born with each of them.
Since we are not interested in the year, over a period of one hundred years over four hundred little Hitlers and four hundred little Einsteins were born - even if the exact second counts.
2. Astrologers give predictions without asking about the time (and anyway most people don't know what time they were born, and if they are talking about a second, then anyway - birth takes many seconds - is it the second when the navel comes out or is it the moment the umbilical cord is cut?)
But Michael, come on, it wasn't at the same time, and that means the whole arrangement of the sky was completely different.
Here, I saved for my father c. Comment.
An entertaining experiment that anyone can do on their own:
Take a familiar figure (say Adolf Hitler)
Look for her date of birth on Wikipedia (in the case of Hitler - April 20)
Search for this date in Wikipedia (simply write April 20 in the search box) and you will get a list of the important things that happened on this day.
Among other things, you will find there a chapter on births (Births) where you can learn who else was born that day.
For example, on the date of the year when Hitler was born, this lady was also born:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Angelica
And this gentleman was also born
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Rose_of_Lima
Avi:
I ask again: Don't you want to win millions of dollars?
Why are you wasting your time on this stupid argument?!
Just drive and collect the prizes!
Then you can return to Israel on a first class flight, sit down at the new computer and write "Did I tell you?!"
No one can argue with you!
monument
"I fear a world haunted by demons and superstitions, because indirectly these things affect my life"
There are many studies by the world's greatest psychologists regarding the types of phobias.
It must be assumed from what you write that you suffer from one of the severe phobias that do not have an easy solution
I recommend that you meet with me, at least you will understand where it comes from, maybe it will be easier for you to see life in a wider reality and in its various layers, the visible ones and the less visible ones.
Always remember that the customer is your measuring tool, he is the fence on the sides of the road and only thanks to him you can improve.
My father c
You probably missed what was said about the Furrer effect + the nice video, the embarrassing mistakes of the astrologers who gave a very impressive opinion, only what, based on the wrong map, you are welcome to read Ray Hyman's story here: http://wp.me/p1K6uX-5y
I mean - my claim, which you probably won't be willing to check, is that even if you say the opposite of everything written in the astrology books, your customers will be just as satisfied.
This is what I call - "there is no connection between the claims of astrology and reality".
I fear a world haunted by demons and superstitions, because indirectly these things affect my life (imagine what would happen if leaders based their decisions on consulting an astrologer for example... and of course I am aware that some do.)
I am glad that my articles brought you pleasure.
On occasion you will read about "confirmation bias" and you will see that the way you react is a well-known and documented thing in psychology.
I will quote Francis Bacon, from around 1600:
The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. And though there be a greater number and weight of instances to be found on the other side, yet these it either neglects and despises, or else by some distinction sets aside and rejects, in order that by this great and pernicious predetermination the authority of its former conclusions may remain inviolate"
monument
Exactly the astrologer sees the client with the help of the birth map (date, etc.) in the metaphorical sense seen from the map and the other components (parents, environment, intuition).
First of all, I change my position when I am convinced that I was wrong. After 35 years of astrology, I have not received negative feedback from clients, the match between what I said to the client and what the client knows about himself did not drop below 80%, so there was no reason to put astrology aside.
Gilad, what happened that you already believe in God who refers to him? Who am I that God will turn to? Those who will change my position on this matter are only the customers who come are the test tool the result is the most accurate and reliable research and not any unfortunately shallow statistics of one researcher or another.
Finally, the sting is out of the bag of your subjective statement "I do care that things that are completely baseless are taking over the world. Why do I care? That's how" explains the articles and explains the simple truth that there are people whose mental structure is a rational realist who is afraid of the ethereal state not perceived by the five senses.
Gilad, thank you very much, I was very happy to read the articles and the comments, they further strengthened my perception of my world.
Regards.
Avi Gideon
Abi C,
"No matter how much you insist on seeing a match between the data of basic and non-binding astrological information because it is a metaphor and putting it on this or that person, you will get nowhere."
Isn't astrology an attempt to dress up metaphors about this or that person according to his date of birth?
I didn't understand your point.
I understand that you cannot change your mind in any way.
I understand that even if God reveals himself to you and tells you that there is no connection between the astrological symbols and reality, you will not believe him, and tell him that he is missing the point, because for thousands of years people have believed that it works, and are impressed that it works, so what the hell is he talking about.
OK.
I hope there are more open-minded people, that's all.
I really have nothing personal against astrology, for my part it works like quantum theory works. What do I care?
I do care that things that are completely baseless take over the world. Why do I care? So.
Gilad, do you deliberately want to read only what suits you? So keep it up.
The astrologer does not take the astrology book that gives a very dry and general interpretation of certain basic situations and based on that he performs his analysis. The astrologer performs an intuitive analysis when he sees the map with the entire constellation of the stars and the horizon with his supersensory feeling in front of the client and describes his astrological position to a specific question of the client.
As much as you wade through the mathematics and statistics of the matter, you will feel frustrated and confused.
No matter how much you insist on seeing a match between the data of basic and non-binding astrological information because it is a metaphor and putting it on this or that person, you will get nowhere.
For at least 5000 years the method has existed in one form or another over the years for various reasons and neither you nor any research will tamper with it. You can tattoo the existence of God, it will not move the majority of the world's population, they will continue and believe that God exists.
Father, it seems that you are not reading the things.
The studies showed that there was no sign of greater similarity between people born under the same sky map, compared to those born under a different sky map.
What does this teach us?
If astrology was valid according to the numbers you indicate, then people who were born in the same minutes should be at least 60% similar to each other (I have no idea how it is measured, but let's say).
It is unlikely that they all had genes and an environmental influence that acted precisely to cancel out the astrological effect, certainly not across thousands of subjects. But even if such a statistically implausible cancellation effect did occur, there should still be 20% dissimilarity according to your approach, meaning that in any case, and worst of all, some increased similarity between people born under the same sky would have to be found.
That's not what it turned out to be.
What I did not understand?
monument
Gilad, read what I have written so far and you will understand why the studies are not relevant.
It is unequivocally clear that you write articles in the name of Omram, but when you do not have the slightest understanding of what astrology is, you will blindly continue not to try and understand. That's why Gilad, you need to sit down with a serious astrologer for a few hours and ask all the questions, and then maybe you'll start to understand how the method works (or not according to your method).
The method of astrology as a whole of 100% makes a schematic division of the astrological interpretation in such a way that the astrologer has to take into account only 60% of the structure of the map (the constellation of the stars in the sky)
He is the star interpretation, 20% he must take into account the genetic connection with his parents and education at home and 20% environmental influences. And with all this, a quality astrologer has a high intuitive sense (perhaps the sixth sense).
Therefore to carry out a scientific study to prove an astrological method that is not a science and a symbolic interpretation of the constellation of the solar system is simply ridiculous.
monument
The astrologer in his interpretation stage takes into account the above division. And therefore the interpretation of the celestial bodies are considered for him in the ratio of 60% of the total astrological analysis.
Yair, I am putting my efforts into a certain corner of things, which interests me in particular, and that is -
Raising awareness of the huge gap between what we think and believe to be true, and the state of things as they really are, and what are the tools of thought that can come to our aid to reveal this gap.
Astrology for me is an excellent example of the subject, because on the one hand many think it is "true", and on the other hand all the evidence points to the fact that there is no connection between these beliefs and reality (except in the minds of those involved in it).
I believe that if people internalize the basic principles that stand behind the things I bring, (which in the end are not so many, and come up again and again in every false belief), they will be able to take and realize it in every area of life.
And the one who understands will understand.
monument,
I have no interest in this thing, astrology. But one commendable thing can be said, it does not evoke any atmosphere of harming others, as far as I was able to identify, in contrast to the religion, since it calls the offending to harm women and members of other nations. Maybe you should spend your efforts against religion?
Yair, you may refer to this as an entertainment industry.
About a quarter of the population believes that this is true, and about a tenth of the people in America think that it is science for everything (according to polls).
Not to mention the many professionals who absolutely believe in it.
I fail to understand the great efforts to show that the entertainment industry is not a science. And if you say, we pay for these prophecies, well we pay for a lot of unnecessary things, football, movies, unnecessary food, trips to the beach, people like to have fun..
According to the studies, it appears that the part of astrology in the equation is 0%, isn't it? I don't understand why the studies are irrelevant in your opinion.
And what is meant by "60% interpretation of the heavenly body metaphor"? It is not clear.
"Influence of 60% from celestial bodies" I understand, "influence of 60% from metaphor of celestial bodies" - let's say I understand.
But what is a "60% effect of interpreting a metaphor of celestial bodies?"
I assume that by "interpretation of metaphors" and "intuitive ability of the astrologer" you mean the techniques of cold reading, i.e., retrospective adjustment of the things said according to the nature of the interaction with the client, in a personal meeting. Because we have already seen that any interpretation of the birth chart, no matter how professional it may be, if it does not include a personal meeting with the person - fails miserably in the matching attempts.
monument
In every book that teaches astrology it is made clear that the human being is influenced schematically by 20% by genetics and the effects of the parents' education, 20% by the effects of their living environment over the years and 60% by the interpretation of the metaphor of the heavenly bodies in the astrological birth chart.
It is also explained in the literature that the intuitive ability of the astrologer is an important and perhaps decisive part of the accuracy of the analysis.
All the studies do not refer to what I wrote here, therefore the study is nice but really does not hit the target of the validity of the astrological method.
Continue with the articles, they give grounds for an important discussion and bring the writers' approach to the subject to the surface.