Circumcision and sperm wars

62 תגובות

1. Every day, all over the world, babies are born from wombs and from birth
   What do you say about that?!

2. Circumcision causes irreversible damage for life
   All the doctors' organizations in the world have stated that there is no medical justification for circumcision and some of them even call for a ban on circumcision by law.
   Even the Ministry of Health in Israel does not recommend circumcision.
   In Israel there are tens of thousands of intact children (who have not passed a covenant) and their number is growing all the time.

   Additional information includes accurate sources of information here:
   http://www.box.com/s/q4jqvvmc1a9q3rtc42j1

3. Mary, how much prejudice and stigmatization there is in your poor message.
   It seems you haven't met a religious person since your days
   Get out of the bubble you live in
   And get to know those who live around you.
   The religious world consists of many different currents and approaches. Things are much more complex than you present.
   I'm sure you can adapt to yourself a different, multidimensional vision.

   Successfully

4. Tal Hanania: "In contrast to you, the values ​​of the nation that have always expressed the Jewish nation do not change or distort.
   You are the one who suddenly decides to radically change and wants the definition of the Jewish nation to be different from what it has been for thousands of years!"

   You don't change or distort your "values" from what?

   After all, you are surfing the Internet, this is a sick and dangerous distortion in the eyes of your rabbis, you are talking to secular people about Ha Veda contrary to the divine commandment that calls you to stone them, and if we go later to the "sticks", then the only form in which you are allowed to talk to secular people is by You have repented. You do not do this and for that you are judged, the language you speak is also forbidden for "dirty" speech because it is a "holy" language, and therefore you are an apostate in this as well. will add and not subtract" as well as a number of related things.
   I assume that even walking in a "Gentile" costume, such as the one from Russia in the 16th century, here too there is an absolute prohibition to wear "Gentile" clothes, I assume that you would not deny your home's right to study, or to leave her home, or to testify in court, nor You would have outgrown her at age 12 for the price.
   Therefore, why do you demand some kind of concrete attitude regarding you and your Jewish Halacha as well? It's a thing and two. You have your own cult.
   After all, you are no less reformed than any other reformer here, and like the reform of the nasty orthodoxy.
   It's just that you are a chronic-serial denier, and this is a well-known disease in religions and especially in Judaism.

5. virtue:
   A nice response, but in my opinion there is no real justification for a seal in the flesh (and you insisted on that in your words as well).
   The connection between the word in its "fleshly" meaning and the word in question is also somewhat artificial.
   I used this connection once when I jokingly asked my friend:
   "What do you call the act of a Jewish woman who forces her friend to promise her marriage while they spend time in bed?"
   When they responded with a shrug, I told them: "She takes him at his word!"

6. Circumcision
   A word [words. . . words . .] - sealed in my flesh - now says and does! [Uphold ]
   Covenant - cutting [like cutting a branch] Covenant - at the entrance to every covenant there is a waiver of other tree branches whose cutting enables the growth of the covenant. The covenant [in any meaning] is a declaration of union with a message.
   Mention - in the meaning of remembering [Memory].
   When he created them, he will remember his word to me - his covenant.
   Why is it important [to the point of giving a physical sign] that the male remembers his word?
   We all know the answer to this and experience it ourselves, don't we?
   A friend we trusted and did not keep his word, etc. . . Very painful, right?
   And in particular, the male usually forgets his word when he gets up, isn't that right?
   How important and right it is for a person to keep his words.
   So that we don't get hurt, to keep us safe.
   - In my opinion, this is the intention and meaning of circumcision.
   - Declaration of unity with those who walk this way.
   - This is a powerful symbol of the protection of the parent [every parent] over his children. Because by doing so he says: I walk this way, word for word! Gives validity to every commitment, you can trust me! In doing so he takes part in creating a better world, also for his children, the next generation and lays the foundation for a correct educational path.
   Everything can be chosen whether to do and how, the meaning of that choice is sometimes in injury,
   Because [everyone knows] brokenness [ignorance], meaning pits [like soil], into which we often fall, and from there we learn and develop.
   It is clear that in a moral society that is not religious, the same morality and value can exist even without the symbol of the animal flesh, but from understanding the right and good path and walking it. That's the main thing. Walking the path that protects us, our world and our children's future.
   And on another matter - historically, the State of Israel was founded solely because the Holocaust created the [visible need] for its existence. Its necessity has not yet ended, has it?
   Yes, there will be one world government, but, let's not forget, there is a step before that on the way and that is the union of the blocs! The seeds for this can be seen in the establishment of allies against the "axis of evil", and to be historically accurate in terms of processes, at first there were families, then small tribes, then fortified cities, it moved to states, from there to superpowers uniting several states and provinces. . . And we are on our way to the blocks. Don't forget the gap between dreams and reality!
   He whose eyes are on the stars will not see the pits under his feet.
   In creating the union of the blocs, there is a need for a deep understanding of concepts such as unity and alliance, which can be created, solely on the basis of the ability to trust one another, in keeping the word and in linguistic mutual respect and common to all of us, in the broadest common denominator.

7. What's new:
   There was no world government and there probably won't be in the near future.
   We haven't gotten over cancer either, but that doesn't make cancer a positive thing.
   Humanity has all kinds of diseases and the madness of nationalism is in my eyes one of them.
   Anyway - I said that I am aware of this madness and adapt my steps to its existence.
   That is why I am in the State of Israel.
   The Jewish identity - as I said - is given to me by the antisemites (and maybe you too). I don't see my identity as such but I deal with the fact that others recognize me that way. I am a realist and therefore I act accordingly.
   However - I do not see "Jewish identity" as valuable - just as I do not see cancer as valuable.
   Both - as far as I'm concerned - are considered a necessary evil.
   My argument with Tal Haniya is about values.
   My argument with you is about "What did I argue about with Tal Haniya?"

8. Michael

   "Have you ever asked yourself why a "Jewish identity" is necessary?
   You threaten destruction as if there is something sacred here, but why do you expect others to sanctify it?"

   The Hebrew language is part of the Jewish identity, right?

   So in the meantime you are part of the Jewish identity that you need.
   OK, so the "one world government" utopia has been postponed until after the Messiah,

   And in the meantime, not even the screams of an idiot will deprive you of your rights.

9. Michael

   Today there are four huge countries and they are: India, China, USA, Russia
   None of these countries encourage me to want a worldwide government in the future.
   Was the UN successful? Was the Korean War successful?
   Won't there be collusion, bribery, wars?

   There was actually a worldwide government that lasted a thousand years, the Roman Empire
   But she passed away because of corruption

   The human heart created evil from his youth and therefore I will always be nationalities, religions, and languages.

10. What's new:
    There was nothing right or cultured about saying "if you were honest with yourself".
    I am honest with myself and with everyone and to accuse me of not telling the truth - even to myself - is impudence.
    Besides, I didn't confirm anything you said. You asked why I am not making certain moves now because without any basis you have inferred that my worldview requires me to do them now (while my actual worldview does not require me to ever take them! It all depends on circumstances that currently do not exist).
    Note that I have not yet responded to the claim about the language. This is such a stupid claim that it is hard to imagine. I speak to a certain audience in the language in which I think I will be able to make myself clear in the best way. I don't need your permission to speak any language.
    For some reason you think (in most of your insolence) that you have the right to determine for me what I should have done.
    You have neither the data that I have about myself nor the ability to draw conclusions that I have, but it doesn't bother you and you don't see it as impudence.

11. Michael

    First of all, the first response was correct and not rude,
    But you rudely shut down.
    In fact, in your response you confirm what I wrote
    Meanwhile the current situation in the world is of many nationalities and languages.

    But in the future she would like a world-wide government, a world-wide nation, and a world-wide language.

12. What's new:
    The previous comment was somewhat laconic only because of the audacity of the comment for which it was written.
    If someone wants to understand, it's so simple!
    The world today is divided into nations, religions, countries, etc.
    No one has any technical possibility to live like a human being without belonging to any country.
    Naturally, I am a citizen of this country because "I was born here, my children were born here, I built my house here - with my own two hands, etc."
    No amount of shrieking from an idiot will deprive me of my rights.
    Beyond that - although my utopia (by the way - just like that of Einstein, the Beatles and many others) is of a "worldwide government", it is clear to me that at the current stage - because of all the madness that dominates the world and specifically because of anti-Semitism - Jews have no other place where they can be safe.
    The State of Israel was founded as a refuge for Jews and I am - by origin - a Jew.
    In this sense - I do not define myself as a Jew but the anti-Semites do, and they do this not only on the basis of religion but also on the basis of origin.
    It is no coincidence that the Law of Return is exactly a mirror image of the Nuremberg Laws.
    The condition in the Law of Return is the same condition as in the Nuremberg Laws, but while the Nuremberg Laws command to destroy when the condition is met - the Law of Return commands to save.

    The Law of Return was drafted precisely to meet the purpose for which the country was founded and I am a citizen of the country for the same reasons.
    If at some stage the human race is cured of the madness of religion and nationalism, it will find a much better solution in the form of a world government, but as long as it is not cured - and in particular - as long as anti-Semitism exists - there is a need (for me, too) for the State of Israel.
    Therefore - not only do I support the State of Israel, but I also served in its army probably 6 times more than you did.

13. Michael

    ok ok if that's your response.

14. What's new:
    First of all I am true to myself. This is the situation and this is how it is written in Hebrew.
    Other than that, 0- scale.

15. Michael

    "Have you ever asked yourself why a "Jewish identity" is necessary?"

    "Different feelings of "identity" for human groups are the basis of all wars in the world."

    The very fact that you write here in Hebrew contradicts the above sentences.
    The Hebrew language belongs to the Jewish people.

    If you were honest, if you yourself wrote in English, which is an international language, you would give up Israeli citizenship, which only brings trouble, and declare that you are a citizen of the world.

16. Parking fee:
    Have you ever asked yourself why a "Jewish identity" is necessary?
    You threaten destruction as if there is something sacred here but why do you expect others to sanctify it?
    Distinct feelings of "identity" for human groups are the basis of all wars in the world.
    Judaism survived thousands of years at the expense of its sons, most of whom died. is that good?

    You accuse others of demagoguery but apart from preaching "morality" (and I didn't just use quotation marks!) you said nothing.

17. BDS
    In the XNUMXth I will respond to the contradiction you presented
    I say live your life as you want and it's none of my business,
    But on the other hand, you cannot impose your opinions (only your decisions that you decided!, the decisions relevant to your nationality) on the nationality of your people
    In contrast to you, I do not change or distort the national values ​​that have always expressed the Jewish nation,
    You are the one who suddenly decides to radically change and wants the definition of the Jewish nationality to be different from what it has been for thousands of years! But according to your spirit, this really reminds of the same civil revolution that Aharon Barak tried to impose on the country..
    And by the way, whenever you talk about the Jewish people, don't ignore the Jews who live all over the world,
    The fact that they are not here does not make them someone who is not part of the Jewish people, and yet they too are important to the decisions concerning the existence of the Jewish people..., unlike those Arabs who sit in the Knesset and absurdly decide who deserves to be included in the Law of Return! and other decisions.
    And you still haven't answered the contradiction I asked,
    It is still not clear to me what right you have to occupy this land to sit in Gush Dan, at a time when the name Israel is just a name smashed by someone who wrote the Bible, at a time when the Bible is just an imaginary book, at a time when it is not clear who and what is a Jew at all What is Israel anyway?
    I look forward to an answer to these questions! And not to run away from the questions and attack in terms of religious coercion and hatred for all the Doss and their father.

18. BSD
    I read the things, there is simply no limit to emotion and cheap demagoguery..
    Instead of starting to thoroughly discuss and clarify what the Jewish identity is and where this identity comes from, instead of dealing honestly and truthfully with the more embarrassing and deep questions that deal with the Jewish pride in morality in general, you straight up attack me as someone who holds an M-16 in his hand and shoots every Torah apostate.
    One more thing, and to both of you I say listen well well! The Jewish people did not start in the 20th century, it is still many years ago, and so is Jewish history and Jewish identity, so please stop tying Jewish identity to some connection of paying taxes and serving in the IDF, such is the Jewish identity, whoever determines what a Jew is is the same An authority that brought to the world the concept of Israel, this nation called the Jewish nation.
    To be honest, this is nothing new to me, it has happened to me when I come to a secular person with the deeper questions concerning Jewish identity and questions of honest morality, most of the time, he attacks in the form of someone who is a fanatical extremist who murders gays or religious coercion, etc.
    When will I be able to meet the person with whom you can really talk about these issues in a matter-of-fact and theoretical manner and who will not pour all the emotional ricochets that he has all the doss in the world on me.
    Enough of this demagoguery, you will begin to understand that in your approach people like Aharon Barak and his friends see no obstacle in abolishing this thing called a Jewish state (because who decides what a Jew is?..) and in having a state for all its citizens, (why not?)

19. Circumcision is a Torah commandment that has existed for over 3000 years!
    A few years ago they discovered that a baby born in a normal delivery - on the eighth day, the level of clotting substances in the blood is maximum!

    In Africa, as part of preventive treatment for sexually transmitted diseases, the foreskin is also removed

20. Hello to our virtual "selfish".
    The subject of the article was the "word", and all that is implied by that, therefore I mentioned in advance that this is not a conversation for girls... you cannot touch something that you have no experience with.
    When you mentioned that you hadn't yet reached the implementation of this in the field, it was clear to me that all things are beautiful and idyllic
    Until the moment of real truth arrives, and a higher insight than the thoughts you "thought" before, dictate to you the
    The decision, what's more, that in this matter will be your other partner, that together, you will most likely have common sense
    More weighted, in addition, of course for a new born, that will come into the world... the bridge is crossed, when you get to it.

    In addition to that, "words" and the "word" - the verb of idea and thought are the managers after all
    our lives, and what you think and say is, let it be, in your private life, unless you change and improve
    The formations of your thoughts are important, and therefore also important for improving your lifestyle.

    And why did I ask you, regarding the nickname you gave yourself? If you really have a true desire to share the
    Smile with another Elam Chen.. in "selfish" - there is not much, if any, room for harmony with someone else
    And you certainly wouldn't want him to call himself that name...think about it.

    If it seems that I was hurt, the hurt I felt was precisely, in the name of the dear Jew Hanan, who was somehow "sucked"
    The forum, and Uri's words lacking deep insight, caused him to respond.
    The man addressed in a spirited manner, with humanity, and even showed human dignity. -He also mentioned that he lives next door
    To the secularists, it is obvious that he is a real man of peace.
    As I said on another occasion here on the site, the ignorance of the subtleties that control us in life
    It does not exempt anyone from the results, even if the results are not always seen immediately.
    His reaction, the extension of Uri's bridle, proved in this case immaturity..so does your reaction - even if
    ideological.
    And dear Yehuda - it's clear that you didn't just return immediately! Said someone Jewish! And immediately you jumped like a soldier
    called to command by name.
    Why didn't I respond immediately?? Because I understood what was happening here.. and indeed you said your words, which might be pressing
    About many of us in the essence of the matter - and the resulting perspective..but as happens here more than often
    You put all your eggs in one basket.. and indeed on one of the best ones on the other side...

    And another matter, there are the issues - the personalities that concern all of us and all the peoples, to Israel as a parent nation, of
    At least three religions..(at least! 9)..I wanted not to go into more detail but the 9th will take over and did not want to be deleted..so it is more obligatory than all, even though the religious themselves or most of them do not yet understand the matter
    And some of them even have a kind of blind racism at this stage, for their important role, some know, but
    Keep quiet for now.. not everyone is ready to accept the ricochets that run here on the site and in other places
    others.
    The main points mentioned by Roy today, in response to another article, do indeed relate to their essence, to our main point, but there is more
    A lot to understand, and that's why we live—and you chose life!! People who live correctly and benevolently, are holy
    And live the dead too!
    Well, I've said too much, bye.

21. Hugin and Monin.. of Odin..
    my dear,
    A selfish peace-seeker, dear yes, call it a pacifist
    A thing that often goes hand in hand with the protection of human rights (including - us - human beings - and even the softest of our children that were born)
    But I am sure of one thing and that is that on his face - you - I am not fighting!!!
    Why then are you so hurt by my words?
    Not least when they were written in response to the other nephews of the keyboard?

    I'm not as young as you would think - even if I'm older I still won't count
    But why is there no room for a discussion of more decisive opinions? And why is this issue related to age / lack of experience?
    My correspondence was conducted mainly against the words of the commenter Uri
    After all, he holds similar views to mine and even announced - I think - that he is a married man..
    (and a simple calculation led me to the insight at the moment because he is also my age)

    I personally enjoyed reading your mysterious responses and your unique writing style
    And if your readers haven't succeeded in recognizing your constant super staccato joy
    After all, you are probably missing my cynical pleasure - and this, as you know, is seriousness dipped in sharp humor..

    As for the demonstration of my opinions - which in my eyes are precisely humanitarian - and not harmful,
    After all, the word "selfish" as you hinted - has not the slightest connection to them!

    You have a refreshing weekend
    And really
    All the best
    selfish.

22. to be selfish in a group,
    May I ask why you gave yourself, here on the site, the nickname, Hela??
    It seems to me that there is some kind of contagious influence going on here...
    And maybe it really is time for me to retire...
    Besides, it is also evident that you are very young, according to your responses full of inexperienced flags...
    But we will not spare you, heaven forbid, the experience, the experience, and many more...hours on the way.
    All good. Fighting... who exactly???

23. Main thing I forgot!
    Being a vegetarian, I fight for rights in Israel
    After all, I am longing for the day when "kosher" slaughter will not be qualified or approved by law anymore!
    (And by the way - kosher keepers will argue that this is the most "humane" slaughter..)

24. Ori
    Thank you for the words of support
    And especially on the exemplary points that you brought up yourself
    Indeed glorified customs which, thank God, have disappeared from the Israeli/Jewish mindset
    (And as long as the name of the nationality "Jew" appears in my T.Z., I have no choice but to recognize myself as a secular Jew - there is no such thing as an Israeli nation - unless a person is an Arab for example. (Between Jew-reading a name that also includes Diaspora Judaism and Israeli-a name that defines a law-abiding citizen in this small country.)

    Indeed as a music lover there is no joy from me because I am allowed to sing
    As a "pug dog" I am not happy that homosexuals are not condemned to death
    And as a painter, I make many pictures of myself - and most of them deal with the worship of the human figure!

    And I'll end with another side note - also in response to commenter Roy's comments
    The separation in my own words between custom and tradition (in contrast to your comparison, Uri) was done intentionally according to Halez's claim that custom is one of the components of tradition - such an umbrella of customs - that unites/sets apart this or that group of people.

25. Anochi (T), indeed, you raised a good point regarding the non-exclusivity of the Jews on circumcision.

    I wanted to mention a few more Jewish traditions (tradition=custom) that we got rid of over the years without losing our Jewish identity. Some are older and some less so.
    1. Deprivation and inequality for women. The woman in the Bible and later is of lesser status, for example not bound to testify. At least on the declarative level, this no longer exists in Jewish secular society. This claim of course does not include the anxious part of the people.
    2. Distorted penal laws. For example, stoning a man/woman who were unfaithful to their spouses. Another example is the death penalty for homosexuals.
    3. Prohibition of women singing.
    4. Multiple wives (and thanks to Rabbi Gershom).
    5. Prohibition on making statues (I remind you: "You shall not make a statue and a mask").

    Although we have discussed circumcision so far, there is still a lot to fix. A bad example, which I'm sure won't last much longer, is the training slaughter. Nowadays it is customary to consider the animal's suffering, even if we eat it in the end. Therefore, the spirit of the times will dictate the change of the accepted method of slaughter (which is not one of the pleasant ways to die). I chose for now to avoid eating meat as much as possible (not including fish...).

    Ori

26. Well, I got off the set, after the last three comments.
    I'm sorry, that you are getting down from a person's dignity.
    Everything else, I will leave forever.
    Peace.

27. Since I am agnostic in an absolute and sweeping way, no "divine" argument will take its place in my considerations
    As for social arguments.. what did you actually say?
    Between "indecency" in the boys' bathroom in the first grade and mutilation of the body of an eight-day-old baby-
    Most of us will choose the second option???
    Have we finally gone crazy?
    I was happy to read that the same commenter named Uri shares in my opinion - because it is the parent on whose shoulders rests the responsibility of teaching the child that any difference between him and his friends at the playground
    From glasses (Abu Arba) through hair color (rusty red) to - even mercifully - having a foreskin (!) is in no way a reason for inferiority complex!!!!
    These are what I was if - or if and when I become like this
    I would not put society's ignorance before the health of my tender baby who separated from my body eight days ago!!!!
    Is there any reason to claim that the custom - being a "semen war" - stems precisely from the place where mature males - and this includes the father of the baby himself - feel threatened by the fact that the newborn is intact in its organs while they have a deformity - and therefore they are willing to impose it even on that helpless person before he resurrects them A healthy and whole Zerg makes you jealous?
    This is the place to point out that as a woman (who also discussed the issue with her girlfriends) the overwhelming opinion is
    Because a circumcised male is tens of times more attractive - from the aesthetic point of view - than his uncircumcised friend
    Nevertheless
    The consideration to choose "plastic surgery" so that my son's girlfriend/boyfriend will be more attracted to him
    I'll leave it to a man to be a man himself - just as I'll leave the decision in his hands to perform hair removal from the back with a laser!
    There is also the argument that at a mature age the process is more difficult (and emphasis is placed on the word difficult)
    Because the man is aware of the pain and its meaning, and even encounters an erection problem (as I alluded to before) that is not controlled even at a time when he would prefer to have more penis without unnecessary groins..
    And on the other hand
    I can claim that the process at an adult age was chosen by the man himself and he was aware of the consequences
    And he is able to deal with them
    The circumcision procedure at an adult age will be performed as an operation in a hospital by a doctor under appropriate conditions
    And not by some jam with a chisel on a table in the middle of a party with all kinds of bullseye, a quarter of a chicken and the holiday bureks around...
    What's more, there is no proof that the soft one doesn't remember the trauma of the word -inverting- I am sure that various Freudian currents will claim that this is a repressed memory that will scar the man's soul for life!!!
    How did his parents, who are entrusted with his protection and well-being, hand him over to a butcher who, in front of their very eyes, mutilated his masculinity???
    After all, even in an innate animal instinct (and not through cognitive psychology) this organ is directly linked to its survival!! - And now we have closed a circle again with the opinion that this idea stems from intra-tribal sperm wars...

    And only in order to also address the issue of the "tradition" that defines the "tribal" structure without which we would all be "heathens"...
    Many good customs, not to mention entire traditions, have died out or remain valid only in small separatist groups, since the introduction demanded/proved otherwise
    As a nostalgic person by nature, many times I regret the naive past that will not return.
    It's amazing (!!!) how cutting off the genitals of an eight-day-old baby is hopeless
    is the custom in the news
    on which the Jewish empire will rise and fall
    (Especially since it is also a Muslim custom - and these are the first of our enemies to rise up to our brides)
    And what about the fact that there are people of all religions and denominations who perform Mila at different ages due to health/aesthetic considerations? And African tribes who see ceremonies like these as a proof of masculinity?
    I believe that it is mainly the fear of a person to admit to himself that the procedure he performed on his children / performed on himself is barbaric and sadistic that is at the basis of the survival of this practice!

28. Ori,
    Good Morning…

    What is the difference between a Jew and an Israeli? And asked differently, a Jew who does not live in Israel, should he join the army and reserve? Pay additional income tax to the State of Israel as well?
    You also said:
    "I'm not saying that the old traditions are necessarily unimportant, but they are not set in stone and can certainly be changed, all according to the spirit of the times."

    Definition of tradition according to Wikipedia:
    "Tradition is the cultural values ​​that are passed down from generation to generation: customs, rituals, opinions and beliefs that are passed down from generation to generation in a particular group or society. Most of the time, tradition actually forms the basis of the group's definition, both externally and internally."

    That is, you cannot one day come and change a tradition. When you say that tradition can be changed as you see fit, you contradict yourself. In my opinion, you are conforming to the custom, and you have the right to change it just like Rabbi Ovadia.

    And one more note, it is true that if we change it the Jewish people will not collapse, and the sun will not set in the east, but we as a people will lose something of our national identity. Something that distinguishes us from the other nations, something that unites us, and in the end there will be no difference between a Jew and the rest of the Gentiles. Maybe it's for the better, I personally think not.

29. parking lot,

    Yehuda's response is certainly sufficient. I added a few short notes:
    1. It is recommended to take a few deep breaths before responding.
    2. Are you relaxed? Good, now look for where there is preaching in my words.
    3. You did not find... the reason is that I am describing my *worldly* view (which I believe many secular people share) and I am explaining why *I* see myself as a Jew. Note! I did not ask you (because you are not relevant) but I explained my views.
    4. After I've already said that I don't believe in God - that's the meaning of 'atheist' - do you really think that I'm afraid of words like an infidel?!
    5. Since I did not preach and I feel quite comfortable in my own skin (including my association with the Jewish people - a people over whom you have no power) the question arises: which of us feels uncomfortable. The answer is quite clear.
    6. I quite understand why you are shocked. The possibility that a secularist is capable of a coherent worldview that does not abolish the Jewish people, but does not need God along the way, must be difficult for you. It's okay, you'll get used to it.
    7. If we are dealing with contradictions: note that in the same sentence you combined the verses "your right to live as you please" and - "but please do not invent new definitions of who is a Jew"; I hope you see the contradiction.

    Ori

30. Hello, dear religious Jew

    Like it or not, here in the Land of Israel there is a majority of Jewish people who define themselves as secular. My definition of who is a Jew was not given by books from 4000 years ago, for me a Jew is anyone whom the Nazis wanted to put in the crematoria, you will be surprised, for me a Jew is also someone whose father is only a Jew, someone you and your ilk with your rabbinate are able to make life miserable for him. For me a Jew He is someone whose grandfather is only Jewish, but is ready to contribute to the country and serve it.
    And as for the rest of your words, why are you unable to be precise? Where did you see that we canceled the Tanach?
    You are proud of everything written in the Torah, does everything written really fill us with pride?
    The destruction of the people of Amalek, women and children is acceptable to you?, not to me!!!
    And a person who was created as a homosexual, should he also be killed?
    And your Shabbat, in which you make your life miserable starting with three hours of prayer in the morning, and ending with the sale of the various passages in the Bible, is this the Shabbat?, people who ask if it is permissible to cut toilet paper, and sometimes walk many kilometers, the main thing is not to start their car, is this the rest of the Shabbat?
    Desecration of Shabbat death is acceptable to you?, Ali no no no!!
    If only he would let you, you would place machine guns on the coastal road and cut off all the passengers on Shabbat!
    And what about the service in the army? Why don't most of you serve in the army, why?, your blood is redder than mine??
    Besides, it's a shame to see your peers stutter in their attempt to explain the Holocaust.
    I still haven't forgotten the extreme rabbis who ordered Shabbos for everyone who immigrated to Israel before the Holocaust, because only the Messiah has the right to return us to Israel.

    I am a proud secular person. Proud of the book of books, but it is moral enough to take only rules from it such as - honor your father and your mother, and throw away the teaching about the destruction of the Amalekites. And I am proud of King Saul who refuses to destroy my Amalekite children and hates Samuel the prophet forcing him to do so.

    And as for the existence or non-existence of God, after the Holocaust, I really don't care. If after two thousand years of suffering he still does not rest and makes sure that another six million of us are destroyed, then, I would rather believe that he does not exist than that he exists and sat quietly in the Holocaust.

    Go live your life the way you want and don't force your opinion on me.

    Good night
    Sabdarmish Yehuda
    The silent secular majority

31. BSD
    Hello Jew,
    I don't know you and by mistake or not...I came to the site
    I read the things, and I'm quite shocked by the contradictions that are hidden in the things that were written. ZA It seems to me respectable and intelligent enough to write "Listen to Jewish tradition, it's nice, but it's not for me, it's just not appropriate".
    But what did you actually write? You wrote like this about some type of ideological secular Jewish stream (which really does not exist as a large secular public, only a small number of seculars think exactly like you) who came and said the Bible, God does not exist at all.
    And after you say that it doesn't exist, you feel some kind of discomfort because in the XNUMXth century you are a Jew and then you claim I believe in what suits the spirit of the times, and what exactly is that which suits the spirit of the times? After all, the reformers also live according to the spirit of the times and are not unbelievers,
    (at least some of them) Another absurdity, let's say moral commandments which are more said to be closer to the morality that a person understands such as: slander, incest (at least some of them) the commandment to observe Shabbat which has always been a symbol and a central pillar in the life and also in the moral view of the Jewish person, these are not relevant in your view but some An act that by all accounts seems pagan-primitive, not circumcision, is indeed relevant, like, it screams! What is the logic? But what if we call the child by his real name - instead of adapting the Jewish world of values ​​to the times (as you claim) you simply adapt it to your convenience and that's another story and it's your right, but to preach to some new Jewish stream that never existed and there is none (as a stream that is the majority) and say that there is Such a movement of people - this is simply not true, I know and I live among my secular brothers for the most part today and the majority symbolically observe mitzvot in one way or another according to their convenience, but I have never heard from that majority that they omit the Bible/God in such a way Such a totality and then are proud and believe in their Jewish identity, not that there is a problem with being a Jew and being a Jew since a Jew is one whose mother is Jewish, but in terms of the idea in question you are simply an unbeliever in the place from which what you are testifying about was born, a Jewish people
    And then you say that I believe in this animal which is called a Jewish people. And one more thing regarding the subject of taxes, etc. You deserve to be appreciated for good citizenship, but from this point to tying the Jewish identity to good citizenship over the world of Jewish values ​​and morals that have shaped the Jewish people for 4000 years and are still shaping the Jewish people, it seems to you that this is an obvious thing and you can do just that Your arbitrary decision?.. Such ordinary Jews gave their lives for thousands of years of exile just to not change their national identity and now his honor comes and officially decides what the definition of a Jew depends on.. There are Arabs and Druze who are good citizens, are they more Jewish than some say a person A Jew living in Europe?
    Who is your name to define what depends on the Jewish identity?
    Ask me and why should I decide? So it's that I don't decide and don't change, at least on a principle level, I go the way our people have always gone throughout the generations, and if I change, I admit it's because it's difficult for me, but I'll never make an ideology out of it.
    You have the right to live as you please, (and if you ask me, I will be the first to vote for the party that will abolish the religious laws, since for me Judaism is a nation and not a religion, what you see as a religion, I see as a nation)
    But please do not invent new definitions of who is Jewish or what Jewish identity entails and do not arbitrarily decide which act is Jewish and which is no longer Jewish
    You have nothing that disintegrates the Jewish nation like those subjective definitions (which, as I argued, most seculars do not believe in those opinions)
    Good day, Jew

32. to Judah,

    I also see myself as a member of the Jewish people and even married a rabbi. By the way, I didn't really have a choice and maybe I would have chosen differently if I had a choice. Despite this, I am completely secular and a complete atheist. The way I choose to be part of the Jewish people is not the way of the traditions, and surely some will say that I am not Jewish because I eat pork/don't fast on Yom Kippur/eat leaven on Passover/don't keep the Sabbath - things I do do - so why are we discussing circumcision ?!
    The question arises, why after all do I see myself as a Jew? (meaning as a member of the Jewish people - and not a member of the Jewish religion)
    My answer is simple - I am Jewish because I function as an integral part of the people of Israel. That is, I make reserves, stay in Israel, pay taxes, participate in national holidays, study history, etc. My Judaism is not derived from the existence or non-existence of the old Jewish traditions. I'm not saying that the old traditions are necessarily unimportant, but they are not set in stone and can certainly be changed, all according to the spirit of the times. Surely there will be those (for example, religious) who will not deviate even a little from what is written, but we, the secular majority, are allowed to examine the old traditions and adapt them to our modern values. The word is a good example of this. If once it was enough for us that the word mitzvah is written in the Torah, today it is no longer enough. My son, even if he is not born, will be part of the people and he will receive such an education.

    Regarding the matter of "abnormalities" - the first one who opened a non-kosher restaurant was also an exception, but see, the Jewish people did not collapse even when many did not eat kosher.

    Ori

    PS I ignored your comment regarding your Muslim friend. A Muslim person is a religious person and therefore his opinion and customs are not relevant to our discussion (mine...). We are discussing the behavior of the secular person.

33. A.
    Your question
    to continue

34. A response to Eli who wrote "This is a website of infidels who are trying to destroy the people of Israel". He probably belongs to converts who are essentially ignorant, and unlike the religious from Lada, they are also ignorant of Judaism, Halacha, tradition and sources.
    He quoted a Sage article and it is not at all clear why he quoted it. In addition, he quoted it with a lot of errors. Below is the correct quote.
    "There is a small organ in man, whose satisfaction is hunger, and whose hunger is full" (Sanhedrin XNUMX:XNUMX)

35. To make a point
    In which class do you teach question mark?

36. A.
    You better learn to read
    Successfully.

37. to hug
    Aren't you Qantas from last month?
    According to your liking the balance for periods and commas.
    This means that the semicolon is cut off in the word
    Probably to minimize confusion and confusion
    Let the words be simple and complete

38. Laurie

    I read your comment again and again, and it's strange, even though I agree with all your comments, I still stick to my opinion that it was good to dress my son.
    What is the reason? Is it to please my parents who surely wanted the word? Is it because I attach more importance to the fact that my son should not be excluded from the group of circumcised children?
    For a moment I thought that the answer could have been given by my son, after all I could ask him if he would prefer not to be molested?, but... I can also ask myself if I would prefer not to be molested?. I remember a time in my childhood, as a child who read about the holocaust, I was angry at the word that caused a lot of Jews to be exposed, and die. But today I know that I am proud to be a member of the Jewish people and if it involved a word, then no big deal.
    The example that Uri gave, regarding uncircumcised soldiers, is not a good example because I am talking about children.
    It is possible that in Russia, where the majority are non-circumcised Gentiles, I too would avoid facing my son, just so I wouldn't be an exception.
    And maybe this gives me the reason why I do it? Shouldn't the rule: "in Rome behave like a Roman" apply here?
    I know what it is to be an exception. Look at how many people attack me because of my (honest) belief in the idea of ​​pushing gravity and the simple universe, it would have been simpler to line up with what was agreed upon and live in peace and quiet. But what, I am willing to bear the consequences of my deviations, but do I have to complicate my son's deviations until he grows up and decides himself?
    And by the way, even though we are secular, we still prefer to marry rabbis (most of us anyway), and the decision is up to us, so how do you explain it?
    And by the way, as you know, our Muslim cousins ​​also name their sons.
    Well, I brought up this problem (a long time ago) in a conversation with my friend, Joseph, a devout Muslim, who had made the pilgrimage to Mecca (Hajj). Joseph blessed his sons when they were babies. I asked him: - Your Torah allows you to circumcise them even at a later age, so why don't you let them decide? His answer was: "Why should they suffer when they are young boys if it can be done when they are babies?" I believe that beyond his answer he would have preferred that they not be exceptional in the Muslim society in which they are found.

    Finally, it would be interesting to do a study on this topic among secular young people and ask their opinion about the word, whether they did well to deceive them and if they are preparing to confront their sons.

    Good Day
    Sabdarmish Yehuda

39. to Judah,
    I did not expect such a dark response from you... to the point: even if circumcision has advantages (we will discuss them in a moment) there are also disadvantages. For example, malfunctions during the execution of the word, infections afterwards, deformations of the genital organ (I have seen these with my own eyes!), damage to pleasure, failure to cover the vagina during intercourse, etc. Regarding the "advantages", there are two main ones we are talking about: improvement in hygiene and acceptability Socially (I ignore the traditional/religious aspect which is not relevant to me). Regarding the first advantage, I doubt its importance in modern society where hygiene is strictly adhered to at any age. Regarding social acceptance... well, every child has characteristics that distinguish him from his peers and it is my responsibility as a parent to teach him to accept the difference And not to see it as a disadvantage. Moreover, should I cut my child's flesh just because it is socially acceptable?! This is an irreversible process! If my son wants to face himself then the authority is in his hands and it will be his sole decision.

    I will add and say that I believe that if the foreskin was unnecessary then evolution would have already eliminated it.

    By the way, as a soldier who did his apprenticeship about 15 years ago, I saw, even then, many boys without a word, so the phenomenon is not that unusual (it is also more common among Russians).

40. to me,
    It's a shame that you forgot in the religious sector, the voice of the spirit...
    And the biggest sin, that you turned her voice, it's unpleasant to say, into a pubic area.
    If so, no wonder, opposers arose, from all streams.
    And this, the result, that you and others see today,
    We are sorry for all of you.

41. to me:
    you rattled

42. This is a website of infidels who are trying to destroy the people of Israel

    Thanks to the word, our ancestors were redeemed from Egypt

    Apart from the facts that a word is medically useful, there are things that I cannot understand and regarding the last ruling the sages said, "A person has a small organ that makes him hungry and fills him and his fill makes him hungry" as true as this is from experience

43. Laurie
    Only one people will be ready to accept your children without any hesitation and that is the people of Israel.
    As soon as you decide not to circumcise your children, you will bring them from a young age into conflict with the religious establishment (at least) of this nation. And that's something I wouldn't recommend you do.
    So the question of whether circumcision is unnecessary or not is irrelevant and it is better that you circumcise your sons for their convenience. Do not make them different from their friends who will make their lives bitter on the grounds that they are Gentiles.
    And by the way, I don't think circumcision is unnecessary, and believe that it has health benefits.

    Good Day
    Sabdarmish Yehuda

44. First of all, I say that I am not in favor of circumcision (I may not do it for my sons in the future).
    We will continue, apparently there is strong evidence that circumcision in an unhygienic environment reduces the chance of transmitting sexually transmitted diseases. Therefore, a man who has several wives reduces by circumcision the chance of transmitting sexually transmitted diseases between them. This seems to me to be a more successful explanation for the phenomenon described in the article.

    Regarding whether it is worthwhile or not to be circumcised: I am strengthened by the fact that the absolute majority of Gavbari men do not perform circumcision and see this as evidence of its unnecessaryness.

    - just my two cents

45. There is and there is. In Greek society, homosexuality was an accepted and even revered way of life, as well as in other societies. It is difficult to make the generalization that homophobia has always existed in all societies.

46. The homophobic reasoning only reinforces the fact that homophobia exists in society even from 5000 years ago, there are things that men have been afraid of since the dawn of time as well as from its foreskin.
    The proof of evolution in the face of it - still behaving like monkeys...

47. I was responding to Wilson's rant

48. Thanks.

49. To Mama Hugin
    Little by little the mystery is removed from you.
    At first we asked ourselves: - a boy or a girl. well daughter
    And now with regard to age, we are talking about a mother of children here, which gives us a small gap of years, something between 20 and 60, and this is already a big progress.
    I might have been able to analyze more, but the late night time and the mysterious concept of "super staccato", stopped me in my attempts, not bad.
    The main thing is that we always smile and that we and all the commenters on the site have a good time
    nice weekend

    Good night
    Sabdarmish Yehuda

50. Oh.. and wait, if I already peeked.. and wised up..
    It's simple, and I didn't want to touch the traumas that you boys may be carrying around,
    From the age of eight days..innocent.
    But indeed, I remembered of course, and how could I not? That there are also girls, in certain tribes in Africa, if I am not
    It's wrong, that when they reach the end, they are forced to go through a similar process, mercifully, a clown, and it's really not on my part, the improvement of the seed...

51. Facilitator:
    I don't think that there was a point in my words referring to the article.
    I think he was responding to another comment but maybe not.

    Anyway, I think people are allowed to ask themselves if what you want to do to your son is not abuse and within that question maybe even think that you should be prevented from doing it.

    Would you agree that a group of people would rise up in the country and adopt for themselves (in the name of a religion they would invent for that purpose) the custom of cutting out the tongues of their children?

    Therefore, a more correct question is not "What does the writer want from you?" but "what do you want from your children and by what right?"

    Now, please don't misunderstand me - I also killed my son, but the truth is that I did it with mixed feelings when the considerations were the physical damage on one side of the scales and difficulties of absorption in a society haunted by demons on the other side

52. Dear Yehuda

    It is obvious that you have not yet grasped my constant joy, but the main thing is that my children, myself, and all those who know my values
    In life, they realized this a long time ago.
    I wish you, in all seriousness, to be happy, always wise, and - not Mein.. only, Hass.
    But, in any case, thank you for the nice reference.
    And as for... your interpretation, my stuttering?? You probably haven't realized yet that I'm super staccato, in my speech...

53. Dear Hugin

    The excitement and stammering visible in your response is understandable.
    So, in your difficult hour, I will pour you a drop of wine, so you can evaluate if it helps our holy babies or at least identify with them in their difficult hour.

    All the best and sweet dreams!
    Love you
    Sabdarmish Yehuda

54. I agree with every word
    Apparently the writer doesn't want to confront his son - that's his right
    But what does he want from me????

55. By the way, Hugin:
    Why are you apologizing on behalf of your place? After all, it's him and not you!

56. Hugin:
    Since according to your words it is possible to think otherwise, I must emphasize that the wine is poured into the baby and not anywhere else 🙂

57. No offense, but - Hugin and Monin.. of Odin..
    What the hell did you write there?

58. nonsense
    .

59. This is an article, for discussion, for boys only, with all the implications.

    Good luck to you, very dear boys

    And by the way, sorry that my place is poking its nose, again... it is known that the "ritual".. the seller... for the blessing... the seed...
    Pour the "Rabie-O", the "juice".. a little.. wine.. to dampen.. the pain..
    Like that, really, really,..from the side, the side..is there any connection to our affairs??on the site???.
    well, bye, bye,,,,

60. is this from (with a strong gaddish accent)
    The last paragraph is not so out of place - it seems as if the writer came to defend his word or the Jewish people and their customs... There is nothing to argue about faith: you believe=>cut; Don't believe - don't cut (or cut because everyone around you is cutting).

    1. The Jews did not start cutting now until a few years ago, and it is likely (although I cannot prove) that the origin predates even Judaism
    2. The gay argument seems to me to negate the camouflage argument of the chameleon by arguing that it does not change its shape depending on the environment (unless the environment is a tractor wheel)
    3. One of the advantages of man is the possibility to leave the here and now and understand past, future, etc.

    A personal opinion is great, but the arguments here are, how to say, a bit insulting

61. Dr. Arnon:
    Without anything to do with the article, the general idea of ​​which seems to me to be narrow but I have no idea, your description of the influence of the alliance seems to me to be extremely far-fetched.
    Continue your idea a little more and you will come to the conclusion that the entire limb should be amputated so that the ends of the nerves are even closer. You will also improve your tactile ability if you cut your hands.
    Of course it is illogical and it also does not fit with the structure of the nervous system but this is not the place and time to go into detail.
    By the way, is "Dar" your first name or your last name?

62. Just the opposite
    In a number of studies, the opposite finding has been found: removing the foreskin increases sexual fertility because the nerve endings are closer to the surface.
    I wonder what research Wilson relies on?

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