Will the development of laser weapons systems improve the defense of Israel's skies from missiles? On the development that can prevent harm to civilians and increase Israel's ability to warn Aviv, the article seems anachronistic, but Herzl Bodenanger's words at the end speak for themselves
For those looking for the update: Iron Dome: lesson learned and accuracy improved, 17/11/2012
Avi Blizovsky | Galileo Magazine
I wonder what would have happened if every missile fired from the Gaza Strip had exploded in the air over the Gaza border and failed to penetrate into Israeli territory. Perhaps in such a case there was no need to launch a "cast lead" operation?
On January 4, 2009, in the midst of the war, a forum called "Home Defense" convened in Tel Aviv, whose members - reserve officers and scientists from the universities - demanded the importation of the prototype of the Nautilus missile interception system. The development of the system, the result of cooperation between the Israeli and American defense industries, cost about 400 million dollars and was stopped eight years ago; However, Northrop Grumman, the giant of the defense industry, continues to develop the prototype under the name Skyguard ("sky guard").
Defensive laser weapons are mainly designed against moving objects: rockets, cannon shells, mortar shells, tiny drones and missiles
The prototype, which successfully intercepted many missiles over the test sites in New Mexico, rests like an unparalleled stone at the US Air Force Base White Sands in New Mexico in the United States. The Israeli government rejected the proposal to import for a long time. It is possible that if they had used it, they would have been saved from the destruction of houses in the Sderot area, and would have been spared injuries. Moreover, if the system had been installed in the north two and a half years ago instead of lying in the white sands, maybe the face of the Second Lebanon War would have looked different.
Apparently, the Israeli government does not have a prophetic sense, but perhaps there are those who are gifted with it; About a week before the start of Operation Cast Lead, the first meeting of its kind took place at Tel Aviv University, where scientists explained their research in the vernacular to the university's administrative and technical staff. The first scientist to lecture in the series was Prof. Avraham Katzir from the School of Physics and Astronomy at Tel Aviv University, an expert on lasers, on the subject of laser weapons.
Laser everywhere
Let's start, then, from the end: after Katsir described the operation of laser beams and the way they are used as weapons, he came to the conclusion that "the Israeli government must take steps to introduce laser weapons as one of the most important means of warfare in the IDF's arsenal of weapons. For this purpose, the investment in research and development must be significantly increased."
In the enclosed article, I will point out that Prof. Katzir is the son of Prof. Aharon Katzir, who was killed in May 1972 in an attack at Lod airport, which was carried out by Kuzo Okamoto and his friends. But he prefers that we remember his father as one of the founders of the Defense Science Corps and then the IDF. The idea was to use science to improve the defense of the State of Israel, in the spirit of Ben-Gurion's vision, who approved an initial budget (admittedly meager), assuming that since we are few against many, we must develop quality that compensates for quantity. Indeed, like his father before him (and his uncle, former president Efraim Katzir), Katzir tries to combine the two.
Lasers surround us today everywhere. The "eye" that reads the information from the CDs works by means of a laser beam; Speedometers used by the police transmit and receive a laser beam and thus they estimate the speed of the car; The laser is used in medicine for important surgeries (eyes) or for cosmetic procedures (hair removal).
Katzir explained in his lecture that the world around us is full of waves: sound waves, which are tens of centimeters long and light waves, where the wavelength is a millionth of a meter. If we compare the two worlds for a moment, it seems that a sound amplification system has a microphone, an amplifier and a speaker. If you speak into the microphone, the amplifier amplifies the signals without "spoiling" them, and they are transmitted through the speaker. If you attach the microphone to the speaker, the system transmits one clean sound without external sound. This is called an oscillator.
The laser beam is a light beam that undergoes amplification when it passes through some intermediary. The laser is actually an optical oscillator - an excited medium (gas, liquid, or solid) that is used as an amplifier and two mirrors are used instead of a microphone and a speaker. The differences between a laser beam and normal light are that the laser light is "monochromatic" (monochromatic, single wavelength); The laser light is emitted in a very narrow beam that hardly diverges, and it is possible to focus it on a very small spot.
What is the laser beam capable of?
In the demonstration, Katzir showed the operation of a laser whose medium is HeNe gas and which emits red light at a power of 0.01 watts, and a solid laser that emits green light at a power of 0.1 watts. These powers seem low, but it must be remembered that this is the effective power. This is compared to household lighting lamps where the electrical power is marked in watts (and for which we pay the electricity company). The efficiency of incandescent lamps is low: only 2% of the power is converted into light. An incandescent lamp labeled 100W emits only 2 watts of light. The laser is marked with the actual light power emitted by the laser.
The US has about 7000 civilian aircraft, which still have no way to protect them. A shoulder missile jamming system based on an infrared laser may be a solution.
On a summer day, sunlight with a power of one thousand watts falls on an area of one square meter. A plastic lens with an area of 1 square meter can be used to focus all this power on a copper coin with an area of 10.000 square centimeter (a ratio of 10 to XNUMX). The coin is melted in five or six seconds! It is also the basis for plastic surgery, where laser radiation with a power of XNUMX watts is used, focused on a small spot on the body's surface. The energy evaporates the water in the target area and allows cuts to be made in the body.
This feature allows the laser to be used both as a tactical weapon used on the actual battlefield and as a strategic weapon used for deterrence, or in our case - to prevent the enemy from hitting us by firing missiles at the rear. Such a defensive laser weapon is designed mainly against moving objects - rockets, cannon shells, mortar shells, tiny unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), missiles and spaceships, but also against stationary targets such as side charges. According to the plans, it will be possible to operate the laser weapon from land, sea , from the air and even from space.
Katzir also classifies the laser weapons according to the intensity of the beams in each installation: low-intensity lasers are used, among other things, as target designators (soldiers in the field indicate to a plane or tank which target to hit, something that can only be done using a laser, which allows marking a target kilometers away); Rangefinders, which shoot a laser and measure the reflection and based on that calculate the distance where the target is, but their power is weak; lasers for disruption, lasers for blinding (and damage to the eyes); medium power lasers which are mainly lasers carried on planes or trucks, and used as weapons; And high power lasers are used to intercept missiles and satellites, as the Chinese demonstrated when they hit their satellite; They apparently did this by using a powerful laser beam launched from the ground. These measures are mostly in development stages.
Shoulder missile jamming
The American companies Boeing, Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin are simultaneously developing laser weapons systems for airplanes, with one of the problems being the weight of the system, which is estimated at about 6 tons.
Another military field where laser systems are used is the disruption of shoulder missile activity. In 2002, an attempt was made to shoot down an Arkia plane in Mombasa, Kenya using shoulder-fired missiles. Fortunately the attempt failed, but the squad hit the hotel where Israelis were staying.
The US has about 7000 civilian aircraft, which still have no way to protect them. A shoulder-fired missile jamming system based on an infrared laser may be a solution. After an aircraft detection system detects the delivery of a shoulder-fired missile, a laser beam indicating a target is sent in the direction of the missile and follows it. At the same time, a stronger laser beam is directed at the missile and "blinds" an infrared detector at the top of the missile, which is unable to home in on The plane misses it. Two groups at Tel Aviv University are doing research in the field: Prof. Adi Aryeh's group at the Faculty of Engineering is developing a solid-state laser and Prof. Avraham Katzir's group at the Faculty of Science is developing a fiber laser.
Lasers against Xams
What are the difficulties of defending against Qassam missiles? The Qassam missile, produced in makeshift factories in the Gaza Strip, is a terrorist weapon whose purpose is to sow fear: the missile flies at a speed of about 100 meters per second, for a range of several kilometers and with a typical flight time of 20 seconds. The missile is produced in a very simple way, therefore there is no "production series" and there is no uniformity in the structure of the missiles. Although the missile is not accurate, it is very cheap, and there is no difficulty in launching many missiles in a short period of time.
In 1996, the representatives of Israel and the United States, President Bill Clinton and then Prime Minister and Minister of Defense Shimon Peres, signed a joint venture - the development of Nautilus, a laser system that intercepted rockets of any range. Unlike the successful Arrow project, this project has faltered since then due to the reduction of funding from Israel. Although Israel was supposed to be the first country to be equipped with this weapon, the reduction resulted from a change in the perception of the rocket threat after the withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000.
Later in his lecture, Katzir listed the advantages of the system, saying that the Nautilus successfully intercepted Katyusha missiles and various shells. A similar system will be able to intercept Qassam missiles, rockets and drones; the system can handle several Qassam missiles, one after the other. And its biggest advantage is that the price of the "shot" ranges from one thousand to two thousand dollars.
However, Katzir admits that the Nautilus also had shortcomings: the Nautilus' hit percentages were lower than 100%, the price of developing the system would be over one hundred million dollars; The technology has not been proven yet; Only a limited area of a few square kilometers can be defended; The system will not work well in rain or fog or a dust storm; Some targets are difficult to handle; Complicated logistics of handling toxic gases, which the intermediary contains.
Dr. Oded Amichai, who headed the Nautilus project, writes on the article website "Omedia" that "about 15 systems will be required to protect the settlements of northern Israel and the Western Negev, the total cost of which is about 600 million dollars, an amount equal to the total damage to the economy as a result of 2.5 days fighting. This is an essential and negligible expense in relation to the benefit: removing the threat of missiles and rockets on the home front, when it is clear that following the lessons of the Second Lebanon War, terrorist organizations and extremist Muslim countries, such as Syria and Iran, will improve the performance of the missiles and rockets they possess, amid a threat to the center of the country. Equipping laser defense systems (Sky-Guard) will restore Israeli deterrence, because they will render the missiles and rockets useless, and the IDF will be allowed greater freedom of action when necessary" (and see link in "For further reading").
under the iron dome
In order to protect against Qassams, the Ministry of Defense decided to establish the "Iron Dome", which is a system of anti-missile missiles. In this system, a video camera will be installed in the head of a small missile and will allow it to home in on a Qassam missile and destroy it. According to Katzir, the advantages of the Iron Dome system are that the technology is based on existing Rafael missiles, and was even tested in the shooting down of Katyusha missiles. With this technology, mortar shells and rockets can also be hit. And its price will exceed 100 million dollars. Also, the development time will not be shorter than the development of a laser system and the price of a "shot" will be at least 50-30 thousand dollars.
From 1948 until today, the conflicting countries have not been able to attack the Israeli rear from the air. The solution of our enemies to use missiles is successful for them
During Operation Cast Lead, a debate developed over whether to bring the Nautilus-Skygard test system to Sderot to protect it. Although, from a practical point of view, this was not feasible, because it takes many months to activate such a system, which is still wrapped in nylons: but several heads of councils in the south expressed their anger that the government prefers to start investing in a solution that will perhaps be ready in a few years, at a time after the Second Lebanon War It would have been possible to accelerate the development of the Skyguard by Northrop-Grumman, if the government had ordered the purchase of systems. According to those heads of authorities, it was possible to build an active SkyGuard system in only 18 months.
Uzi Rubin, who served as the first head of the Wall Directorate, the directorate of the Ministry of Defense under which the Arrow missile weapon system was developed, was invited to respond to the allegations. Today, Rubin is a member of the IAT Association, the Israeli Association for Defense Against Missiles that was established with the aim of encouraging the government to act quickly, decisively and efficiently, with the aim of finding solutions to the missile threat against Israel and deploying them accordingly.
In a conversation with "Galileo", Rubin explains his unequivocal position in favor of using anti-missile missiles, despite their inherent disadvantage, which is the very expensive price of the shot: "When a laser weapon is practical and affordable it will transform the battlefield, not only in defense against missiles, but Even in anti-aircraft defense. I recently visited the US Army exhibition in Huntsville, Alabama, where anti-drone laser systems and anti-troop laser weapons were demonstrated. legs. Since gunpowder was invented, the laser may cause the next revolution. As far as I've heard from the Ministry of Defense, MAPAT (the Directorate for Research, Weapons Development and Technological Infrastructure) is investing in laser technologies."
Why not continue developing the laser weapon at the same time as developing anti-missile missiles?
Rubin: "In the past they started developing a laser system to protect against rockets. Like many things in the State of Israel, they left it in the middle. It is possible that if they had continued it would have been operational. The IDF withdrew from Lebanon in 2000, and then they thought that the rockets would rust in Hezbollah's warehouses. I did not share this statement, but called to prepare for a missile attack. After the Second Lebanon War, Amir Peretz, the Minister of Defense at the time, ordered the Defense Ministry to re-examine the issue of the defense system against rockets. The defense system was faced with three options: high-speed cannons (an option that was rejected due to being too specific), the continued development of laser weapons, and the development of a dome Iron. It was decided on an Iron Dome, because Israel leads the world in anti-missile technology."
Missiles are cheaper than lasers
"Someone misled the heads of the authorities into thinking that there is a system that just needs to be removed from the nylons and it will protect Sderot," says Rubin. "Actually, we are talking about something completely different - financing the development of a new system based on Nautilus. Although, Northrop-Grumman promised that there would be a good system within 18 months, but I know enough defense projects to know that this is not realistic. If the company had developed the technology in a year and a half Or the last two years, maybe there was something to talk about, but they didn't move a screw. When the breakthrough happens, when investment costs decrease and technologies advance, the laser will be the weapon of the future. For the next few years, he is not relevant."
If you want to quickly defend specific targets, you can use the Phalanx - a cannon system that detects missiles and quickly fires many shells at them
"The most misleading thing is the price per shot. It is not fair to present such an argument when people's lives are in danger. The story that the price of a shot (Blazer) is cheap is half true. To shoot a shot that costs $3,000, you actually have to invest several hundred million dollars to have a system. Compared to That said, missiles are expensive shells with a cheap cannon. When you do the total calculation of placement in the field, the cost of eliminating targets with missiles is cheaper than a laser based one Nautilus".
"Before we approached the development of the arrow, we did research to determine which defense technology to enter. We also thought about the laser, but the price of protecting a square kilometer with a laser is much higher, since it is a high investment and in relatively small areas; On the other hand, a missile battery can cover a sector of tens of kilometers."
"If you want to quickly protect specific targets, you can use the Phalanx - a cannon system that detects missiles and quickly fires many shells at them. In the United States, the Phalanx is produced at the rate of one system per week to protect the American forces in Iraq," concludes Rubin.
Strategic damage
"Whatever the technology for missile defense, the decision makers in Israel are not aware of the need for such defense." This is what Major General Herzl Budinger, the former commander of the Air Force, who serves as chairman of the IAT, says. "In the years to come," adds Budinger, "the entire territory of the State of Israel will continue to be exposed to attack by missiles of all types: starting from small and simple missiles, through medium and large missiles that arrive from Syria at a distance of hundreds of kilometers, to those that arrive from a very distant area."
"From 1948 until today, the conflicting countries have not been able to attack the Israeli rear from the air. The last attack was the Egyptian Air Force's attack on Tel Aviv on May 15, 1948. Since then, the attacks have been avoided because the Air Force was able to protect the country's skies with airplanes. Therefore, Our enemies' solution to use missiles is successful for them."
"The perception that existed until recently, according to which the best defense is an attack, is still correct in principle. But shifting the center of gravity towards active anti-missile defense systems has become essential. As mentioned, until now fighter jets have prevented Israel from being bombed from the air, but a missile strike in the rear raises the need The urgency of other defensive measures. In addition to harming human lives, the missiles cause strategic damage to infrastructure The strategies of a small and advanced country like Israel may cause it damage in the short term and in the long term."
"My concern is that when we reach a few good years of calm, the budgets that are currently invested in systems of this type will be diverted, and if when we need them, God forbid, these systems will not be there to help.
If they had continued with the Nautilus project, then it is assumed that there would have been many such systems in the north and south, and they would have thrown the rug under the enemy's idea that he had managed to obtain some kind of strategic weapon that causes us unbearable damage to human life and property. It is safe to assume that if this had happened, maybe they would have considered their attacks differently. They think they have a magic solution, and in fact they do. Therefore, I and the association of which I am the chairman have to make sure that this does not happen again."
Laser alongside anti-missile missiles
"I am in favor of ending the development of systems. If they have decided to develop the Iron Dome, let them continue, so that nothing similar to what happened to the Nautilus happens. However, I do not believe that it is necessary to go in only one direction, because none of the systems have the full capacity to protect us. It is necessary to combine the Phalanx, an anti-missile missile system (from the Iron Dome to the Arrow), and to continue the development of the laser technology, which there is no reason for us to lag behind."
Budinger suggests integrating a laser cannon into the Iron Dome system because such a cannon can use the same infrastructures such as radar, fire control system, communication system, etc., and decide which system to use against each missile at any given moment depending on the weather conditions, and concludes:
"I hope that a good agreement will be signed soon, that it will be respected and that there will be a few quiet years. But since we are in a difficult economic period, the fear is that they will say that the center of gravity needs to be shifted and train lines and water desalination facilities should be built. All of this must not come at the expense of reducing the security effort. Unfortunately, we have hours ahead of us difficult."
The article appeared in the March 2009 issue of Galileo magazine
35 תגובות
For balance: on the limitations of a laser system for intercepting rockets.
A. It is possible to spread the heat on one side and mislead the radar on the other if the body of the launched rocket is assembled
From polygons let's say hexagons and its rotational movement parallel to ballistic or linear.
B. An electro-optic beam in the IR range is sensitive to weather such as cloudiness.
third. It is true that each pulse is cheaper, but the complexity of an integrated laser system is higher than an iron dome and therefore the risk that its availability will be small exists. A system that consists of a cascade (serial connection) of subassemblies
Its probability of failure is higher than that of any subassembly in it. It is enough for one assembly to collapse due to a strike.
In my opinion, there is such a complication in our other system, which I will not name for the sake of convenience. A small power plant is required to operate the Nautilus, this is not a jeep equipped with a laser. Accumulators (fuel cells, capacitors) are required to charge a large amount of energy and discharge it not as a pulse but as a continuous beam or As a broken line of beats, the accounting in the iron dome was proven to be inaccurate, the number of casualties, and the saving in property damage, and the effect The obvious disincentive created by the system, just look at all the foreign networks. Look at the amount of foreign purchases of Iron Dome: NATO, Germany, South Korea, USA.
However, as a complementary system for the 0-15 km range and also at the same time as Iron Dome, I would not rule out the development if there is someone to finance it. Such development can be applicable to other fields. In other words, Nautilus does not rise above an iron dome, but it should not be dismissed.
Muti - what exactly do you smoke?
After being misled by the interested parties for years, and billions poured into the pockets of the dubious security enterprises, now (2011) everyone admits that the Iron Dome will not provide the defense against rockets as we had hoped. The claims I made in April 2009 have come true. The dome is not effective due to financial limitations, nor does it provide 100% success coverage as promised. Another white elephant was born.
It is necessary to return and invest in the development of the Nautilus immediately.
For all questions regarding effectiveness in weather, toxicity, return from coatings of the attacking missile - see the attached link
http://www.magenlaoref.org.il/mashabat.html
I have an idea for a system similar to Nautilus, only cheaper than it and much stronger than it and it has another use like a pillar of fire but that comes from above and not from below in order to create walls of "light" with high energy
Let's start working on it and see where we end up in the lab at Beit Heket
Tommy:
Too bad you didn't read the link I referred to in my previous response.
Thanks for the correction Roy.
In any case, what about the simplicity of inciting the laser beam with a mirror or coating similar to nickel?
A familiar story, Tommy, with two serious mistakes:
1. NASA did not invest a single penny in the development of the pens. It was done by an independent entrepreneur, who profited handsomely from the subsequent sale of the pens at NASA and on the open market.
2. The Americans avoided using pencils because the graphite chips that broke off from the ends of the pencil and floated in the air could reach electrical circuits and cause a short circuit and burn - something that is not recommended in space. Besides, they could also enter the eyes of the astronauts. Not pleasant, when the tip of a crayon enters your eye, and there is no doctor in the room.
In short, a lovable urban legend, but without any basis in reality.
Good Day,
Roy.
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my new blog - Another science
To all the detractors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautilus_laser#Countermeasures
To Eyal from response 15.
Not long ago I saw a TV show about weapons development.
There was an experiment where a powerful laser beam was fired at a steel plate.
Which of course caused many sparks, and in order not to damage the expensive machine, they simply turned the beam to the side at a distance of about 15 meters from the laser machine using mirrors.
The shortcoming stood out there in a blatant to very blatant way.
The idea is fundamentally ineffective in my opinion due to the fact that it can be manipulated in the simplest way possible. (Chrome coating or something similar but less fragile for example)
And it reminds me of the old story about the pen that was developed at NASA to deal with the problem of writing data on the side of weightlessness.
Several hundred thousand dollars were invested in the development I guess. (perhaps only tens of thousands of dollars) and when the competition for space softened between the USA and Russia and astronauts and cosmonauts met in space in that historic meeting.
The American asked the Russian "How did you deal with the problem of writing the data in weightlessness?" The Russian answered him "We used a pencil"
I wonder how many pencils you can buy for a hundred thousand dollars...
Certainly if I were the enemy and the system was implemented, I would simply coat all the rockets and missiles in chrome.
When the system would try to intercept the missile over its territory, the return beam would randomly hit somewhere in the target area. And the missile would have reached its destination anyway.
Shame on all the billions.
Try to develop a fabric that changes its color depending on the environment in which it is located.
Iron Dome cannot protect against mortar bombs and therefore this system is not suitable for us, residents of the Gaza Strip. Although the defense establishment and Minister Barak are trying to create the impression that in a short time there will be a solution, but in my estimation the ones who will benefit from the Iron Dome are only the defense industries and not us (the residents of the Gaza Strip).
As for the phalanx, it can protect the enrichment route, etc. in a reasonable way, and in my estimation there are such systems in the Navy warehouses as a reserve, but no one will take them out for us.
Thanks.
The Arabs are much smarter than us. Missiles are indeed more logical than airplanes. Why don't we have them?
Why do you need to lift an airplane into the sky to destroy a house or a tunnel?
Push a red button and within two minutes the target was destroyed.
The missile's camera system is only intended to complete the adjustment by the radars. In addition, I believe that the camera sees in infrared (or another effective wavelength), so limitations such as weather are almost not significant at all.
The laser is ineffective in different weather conditions not because it "doesn't see" the target, but because the laser's wavelength is well absorbed by water droplets and dust in a way that weakens it, it can be completely. This is one of the problems of why a laser in the atmosphere is "weak" relative to the required power - there are many absorption and refraction/scattering effects. And this is actually where his distance limitation comes from - the more distance he travels, the weaker his strength is due to these effects. And in weather that is not clear, its strength weakens even more.
The only moral option is to open fire at a potential source of fire (before it even becomes one). That way we will save him from committing the moral offense. and killing innocents.
The article states that the limitation of the Nautilus is due to it being ineffective in the weather. On the other hand, they justify the Iron Dome and in the same breath explain that the Iron Dome missile has an optical camera at the top of the housing. Hence the argument about the inefficiency of one system is also valid for the other. Therefore there is no differentiating or disqualifying factor here! Regarding the return effect claims: Even before the first steps were taken to develop the Nautilus, these questions were raised and the explanation of Mr. Eyal A. (Response 15) was the basis for canceling this claim.
The cheapest option to deal with rocket barrages is probably to return fire to the sources of the fire. However, this option is seen by us as inhumane or does not comply with international law.
Probably during the test there will be no choice. We won't have a laser based defense system and the Iron Dome missiles will run out after a few minutes.
The article states that the laser system is not effective in clouds/fog, which is a serious disadvantage
a question:
What happens if there are clouds or fog?
Stop eating lies already God.
In the midst of the barrage of gunfire that preceded Cast Lead, the Prime Minister and the Minister of Defense claimed that an "expert" was sent to America to get another opinion on the Nautilus...and he saw that it was not close to being effective and operational so there is no discussion on the issue.
The media picked up the gauntlet and looked into the issue in depth.. and received a response from the Americans that not a single representative of ours has visited them at all lately, nor has he seen or been present at any experiment since Israel withdrew from the deal several years ago. This was an official response from the US Department of Defense.
If this in itself is not enough to understand the depth of our stupidity and the lies we are ready to eat, here is a small calculation
10000 missiles..let's say Hamas has them..because they have more..but let's say 10..a round number...if each Iron Dome missile costs 70 to launch (estimates ranged from 70 to 100 according to what the Minister of Defense said)..come Let's be nice .. say shekels ..
So an easy calculation 70*10 we will add the surrounding zeros... how many are these??? Oh yes ..a lot!!!!
All in all for a computer starting with 10000 multiplied by 70000 is 700 million dollars!!!!…
Now Hizbollah has about 4 times as much...Vaxam costs $5 per cit...
Conclusion... to paralyze us financially, all they have to do is produce 20 thousand of these that were even sitting in warehouses... we will have to produce our own response to this and voila
A billion and a half kaput .. they finished us off ..
On the other hand, at the time Nautilus needed an additional 150 million dollars, but we decided to withdraw.
And then every shot 3000
It is estimated that three or four such systems are needed around Gaza so that they back each other up... and here you go...
Here's something more interesting... put some of these on the border with Hezbollah and you've closed this corner as well...
Here's something even more interesting... This is just a prototype of a whole series... Future development will also be able to intercept surface-to-surface missiles or better aim at the target... missiles from Iran or any other country that decides to launch a missile at us...
But hey...who can win that they do in the country above, a competition has changed who has a bigger one and who can bring out a white elephant more than a hind into the world.
Oh yes and to the question of the peace of others..
There are small children in the south who grew up with shells for over 9 years..they still pee in their pants and have post-traumatic syndromes....if anyone here had a child of her name I doubt if they would have spoken differently.
Those who want peace should live for war..and even though I wish and hope for peace like any sane Jew...they are not really logical I would say...and until then we need something to protect us..
So bring me laser robots all Star Wars here..just to make it work and now
A final point..the Iron Dome..predicted date for operational activity 2012!!!!!
So even if I was wrong about everything else... and the Nautilus is only a partial solution...
I will take anything that will reduce the suffering of the poor in the south.. They are us and we are them..
And no one here would have said otherwise if magic had landed on Tel Aviv (by the way, I am also a resident of Tel Aviv so there will be no doubts)
But political hypocrisy is a completely different issue
It is very unlikely in my opinion that any coating on a rocket would protect it from a laser beam with the power sent from the Nautilus. This is not a weak laser. The intensity of the beam is so strong that it interacts with matter in fractions of a second. So the optical properties of the material that makes up the target should not affect widely. But all of these can be calculated. And I'm sure that whoever needs to know already knows how the face of things may change given one coating or another.
I wonder how much the phalanx system costs. It is true that its range is relatively short (one and a half kilometers), but if its price tag is significantly lower than the other systems, it may be more profitable to buy a large number of these systems that are already working and exist in the field until the development of more spatial protection is available.
The length of each border of the Gaza Strip is about 56 kilometers. Even with full coverage of a system every kilometer and a half, this comes out to about 37 systems. Let's say each system costs 100 dollars (which I think is excessive for a cannon that shoots projectiles) it is still a much lower price than all other systems.
The same goes for the northern border, the total length of which is about 160 km
Obviously, developing a missile with a shiny coating, or dispersing smoke/fog around the missile, would protect the missile.
It also poses a danger to the residents of the area who will receive the radiation return directly to the eyes.
Hamas will do what Hezbollah did in where they tested weapona on our tanks until they found how to penetrate them. We saw the results in the Second Lebanon War.
What they will do will be to fire a missile every day and then allocate improvements and another missile and another allocation until after a month they find the Achilles heel of the system and we are left with a white elephant.
I won't give ideas here but just give it a month and you will have a white elephant.
Then some journalist will read the comment that someone wrote on the science website two years ago, but like in Beaufort they will not look for the real culprits in the omission.
Believe me, it is very simple to trick this system.
The coating of Katyushas and rockets of all kinds with a coating looks likely to reduce to zero the efficiency of a laser system of the type described.
Unfortunately, commenters 2 and 9 are right.
Such coating is of course relatively cheap and easy to perform with primitive technology.
For this reason it was probably decided to turn towards the development of "Iron Dome" and its parallels, and not only due to the stupidity of the government systems which, fortunately, has not yet encroached on the MFA.
For those who attended the lecture, from careful listening it was possible to get the impression that the main reason for Prof. Katzir's (Kechul) lecture is probably the lack of financial resources to finance the scientific research on his subjects. Although this shortage is unfortunate for all concerned, it does not justify the investment of huge security resources in the direction that it is unlikely to bring the desired results for the security of the country.
The solution to prevent the huge financial investment in the "Iron Dome" systems is a strategic solution - creating a deterrent that will prevent most launches in advance.
In short: carpet bombing of every launch site and shutting off the electricity and water supply, at the same time starting a hunt for the leaders of Hamas.
It is possible that the Netanyahu-Barak-Lieberman government will try to examine this solution, but it is unlikely in light of the fact that after their terms Barak and Netanyahu want to continue their careers as businessmen without being required to prosecute for committing war crimes.
Those who say that al-Qaeda people will rise in place of Hamas are right, but this will happen in any case, so it is better for us to conduct the campaign under our control and according to the pace we set.
Life is interesting in the Middle East.
On the face of it, it appears that economic interests that are not necessarily pure led to the development of a white elephant (Iron Dome), over a proven system with high rates (Nautilus).
Anyone with common sense understands that the calculations that showed that despite the high cost of the short-range anti-missile missile, the total expected launches - their cost is cheap - are wrong!
The mathematics behind this losing logic is not valid even now, even before the development of the absolutely inappropriate means is finished! The cost of dealing with the Iron Dome against 10000 missiles (20% of what Hezbollah has) will reach about a billion US dollars. The cost of treating the same threat using the Skyguard may in the most expensive scenario reach $20 million!
When Hezbollah equipped itself with tens of thousands of Katyushas after the last war, it basically wrote the writing on the wall: "The iron dome is not suitable because it will not be enough for more than the barrage necessary for the defense of a single combat day!". The problem of our small and poor country, that the decision-makers do not understand that an inherent economic investment must not influence a renewed examination of the need and response in the future. Unfortunately, they are being dragged along by empty promises, by "knowers", who are hiding behind the rabbinical rabbis.
Claims like "the system is cumbersome and not portable" are irrelevant. Sderot is not mobile either, and the cities of Israel will not be displaced from their place in the coming century. Regarding fuel storage, filtering the combustion products - all of these have a technological solution. No one will be poisoned. It is true that the initial investment in the Skyguard system is high, but here too the economic law of the advantage of size applies. The marginal cost of each additional system decreases significantly. With a billion dollars, the entire northern border and surrounding Gaza can be properly protected, and come to Zion Goel.
As one who follows through the media the debate on the choice between an interception system based on a laser versus a missile, and from an objective point of view (I have no financial interests, everything is based on logic) the Skyguard system wins big!
Has anyone answered Haim's question: How will the laser cope if missiles are mirrored?
It is not pleasant that a few cans of silver paint will go down the drain of an investment of 500 million shekels...
Almost always solving one problem brings another problem, if not several. Ability is not desire, although there is a connection between them. There is a quote that I don't remember in Medik, but I remember its meaning, "It is better to let the rebels steal food than to prevent them from eating it, because if you don't, they will burn the fields of the country."
Omer,
Peace is possible only after all the war mongers are destroyed.
And it will never happen so forget peace.
Shabbat Shalom.
The future is in peace and not in people who think how to hurt each other and show who is stronger, like children.
The future is in the good old atomic bomb
Herzl Budinger, the former commander of the Air Force, is so right about the fear of diverting defense budgets to other things. Unfortunately, human nature is to become complacent after a few years of relative quiet, and it's just sad. As a matter of course and less and less willing to fight for it. But that's probably human nature, there's nothing to be done.
The Nautilus is based on a fluorine gas laser whose optical energy generation efficiency is very low. It requires a chemical factory that is itself a dangerous waste that requires a complicated, expensive and dangerous recycling system. The energy consumption of a laser like the Nautilus is enormous and so is the power plant that travels with it.
In order to protect the south, it was necessary to fill the entire Negev with toxic power plants. The US Army decided not to equip the Nautilus and go for another laser system.
The new laser in question today is based on very high power optical fibers. This is a technology of the last 5 years and it guarantees an order of magnitude more efficiency in energy production, it is completely clean except for the exhaust gases of the generator, its firing rate is much higher. just what? She is not yet fully ripe and the Americans are at their own pace. I think there is a good chance that Israel will develop such a system much faster and that it is indeed working in that direction. By the way, the development of a system does not mean the development of the laser as was the case with the Nautilus, but the development of the Shov systems. Israel is good (the best) at the development of Shov systems. The solution of an interception system with a fiber laser is very simple compared to the Nautilus. There is also no doubt about the technological feasibility. If you want, I can send you the position paper of the team responsible for the development of the system in the USA (visible material)
Israel also has an interest in systems to intercept long-range ballistic missiles such as the Shihab 3. The arrow is probably borderline for missiles with ranges of thousands of kilometers unlike the Scud which is hundreds of kilometers. The problem is that the longer the missile, the faster its penetration into the atmosphere. The Americans have long-range anti-missile systems. It is true that these systems suffered from low reliability and failed in a large part of the first tests, but as a pen they have already solved most of the problems and successfully tested the missiles. Israel has a great interest in these obstacles.
As of this morning, it seems that instead of allocating NIS 300 million to the development of the laser, they allocated it to 37 ministers and deputy ministers. These are expenses for the entertainment of the few instead of the security of the many...
I want to understand something. If the missiles are all coated with reflective material, what will happen to the laser's efficiency?
The Nautilus system is an amazing system. But the problem is the huge amount of energy it consumes during operation. Which makes it impractical.
It is impossible to paralyze the Gaza Strip, every time the system fires.
The 'Iron Dome' is only a temporary aspirin. Let me show you that the future is in lasers.