Comprehensive coverage

My conversation with Eli Yishai

"So where is the equality?"

Eli Yishai (photo from 2002)
Eli Yishai (photo from 2002)

Two notes, before we begin:

A. The conversation, if you haven't already guessed, is fabricated from the ground up.

B. I am doing a great injustice to ultra-Orthodox individuals here. Most of them are good people who want to work, make a decent living, feed their families, etc. The current situation in Israel is that the ultra-Orthodox politicians are trying to keep the ultra-Orthodox public in their ghettos as much as possible. You are welcome to enter the 'Orthodox rooms' forum to argue. Because of this, it is important for me to emphasize that I am not going against the ultra-Orthodox public, but against the laws (which are being aggressively promoted by the ultra-Orthodox politicians) that bring a large part of the ultra-Orthodox to the situation he is in today - without a real ability to enlist, without being able to work (unless in black), and obliged to obey the head His yeshiva if he doesn't want to be thrown out and lose half of his allowances along with the ability to feed the family.

"Hello, Honorable Minister? Hello, speaking from Yaloni. secular."

"Hello Mr. Yaloni. You can call me Eli. How can I help you?"

"Listen, Eli, I wanted to thank you from the bottom of my heart for fighting for the benefit of the students. You are doing real sacred work!"

"What are you talking about sir?"

"You probably remember that the High Court of Justice invalidated the pensions law for widowers on the grounds that it was unequal. Then you stood up, dear man, and decided to change the law to make it equal. Now it's not just the elderly who receive an income allowance. According to the new law, every student will also receive it, provided that he and his wife do not work, and have already had at least three children."

"Oh yes. Now the law is equal!"

"Exactly, Honorable Minister, exactly. full equality. Still, there is a small problem here. The point is that students have to pay tuition. Something in the region of ten thousand shekels per year. In order to finance their studies, they have to work, and usually also their daughters and partners in the same situation. Three children is nothing to talk about. So in terms of secular students who are entitled to the benefit, I think there is only one like this in the entire Technion, and maybe a few more at Bar-Ilan."

"So what do you propose to do?"

"I thought, Mr. Minister, as a start, to compare the study conditions in universities to those in yeshivas. All in the name of equality. Lower the tuition to zero, and also give a monthly stipend to every student regardless of their attendance or the degree of investment in classes. We should also give up tests completely and let every student continue to study at the university until he chooses to go to work or retire."

"Sir, have you gone mad?"

"On the contrary, Honorable Minister, on the contrary. I actually sobered up. Everyone deserves it. If the enthusiasm is extinguished in the Yeshiva, what will the city's universities say? I also want exemption from property tax and exemption from kindergarten payments. And if possible, they will also fund my children's school from morning to evening, with a hot meal prepared and served by the Spanish students."

"that's it?"

"One more thing. If I decide to go to work, please take care of a good job in the public sector, like a kosher supervisor. Actually, it's better to be mayor."

"But there aren't enough cities!"

"We are building, Honorable Minister, and many more will be built. There will be many of us, with God's help and with your help. Oh, and—”

"there's more?"

"Also respect. To be respected for everything I do for the country. And whoever does not respect, is anti-Semitic."

"It's all well and good, but sir, you have to understand - we also need people who will work, who will pay taxes, who will protect the country."

"I thought about that too, and there is a solution. We will import foreign workers, pay them alimony, give them guns to protect us, pray for their safety and then say they are Gentiles and throw them out of the country."

"Oh, we've already started with that."

"Yes, but I heard that they are not happy with the whole thing. So I have another suggestion. We will convert them when they are in Israel, so that they feel good about themselves."

"But won't they then be entitled to the same conditions?"

"No, because we will cancel the conversion and return the foreskin."

"So where is the equality?"

"Well, Honorable Minister," I said, "that's exactly what I wanted to ask you."

46 תגובות

  1. It's been a while since the last post here and yet I wanted to donate my "liter of meat".

    Let's start with this: in the country, as it is, there is a non-homogenous population, meaning: there are minorities that arise from ethnic origin or religious belief, etc. When a country claims to be democratic, it obliges itself to give representation to its minorities in the parliament.

    The ultra-Orthodox are a minority in Israel. And in addition, most of them, although not all, do not recognize the state as a Zionist entity - for example: the Deputy Minister of Health and the public he represents.

    Government, democratic or not, is basically giving a handful of people the opportunity to manage the common life of the majority in a given territory/country. Part of that management is maintaining the private agenda of minorities. And there is nothing wrong with that.

    However, I will not allow a handful of people to manage the majority of the country's residents (in our case 120 MKs, 30 ministers and approximately 7.5 million citizens) without having goals, ways of implementation and the means to achieve them.

    If we look at the state budget and the way in which it is received, we will find that the budget book is actually a register of income and expenses that whoever has more power gets a bigger share of the pie.

    A socially and ideologically polarized country like ours cannot be managed with a register of expenses and income, but a book of objectives, means and methods of execution is needed.

    Since this book did not exist and since most of the citizens are busy with bread, the annual pogrom (or in its new invention, the biennial) of the national snort process takes place. the state".

    There are quite a few things that have been said here and I don't want to repeat them but: if there was a book of goals we would find out that it is important to have people here whose teachings are their art. There are those who will do their Torah and art in universities, there are those who will do it in the start-up societies and there are those who will do it in midrash schools and Torah Talmuds.

    In this utopia (because here it really doesn't exist) the state needs to define goals and if necessary to regulate them also by way of payment from the national budget.

    What happens in practice, I have already said, in the annual payment book, there are those who have two, but they also have no goals, no goals and apparently no implementation needs either.

    It is okay to have people whose whole art is delving into the Torah and its construction. There is nothing wrong with that. There is something very wrong with the fact that even the ultra-Orthodox, after they have taken a bite out of the national ledger, do not define goals, do not allocate means for the common good and, in fact, do not give back to the society around them what it deserves. We will clarify: since the establishment of the state there has been an encouragement of idleness under the auspices of the Torah. Since the establishment of the state, nothing that could help the Jewish/religious establishment of this country has come out of the ultra-orthodox's house of madrasah. There is and is no enterprise for the preservation of knowledge and education. What does exist is one big candle and the holding of people on the poverty line and unreserved dependence on a few "leaders" who call themselves "rabbis" as well as the encouragement of idle poverty and the religious coercion of a small minority on a large majority and also a big sucker who finances the It.

    I do think that the state should fund those who know the Torah and its secrets and on the condition that they are funded with the recognition that their work affects the general and also promotes the Torah and the way of life according to it and without coercion. Just as the state should fund academics who could contribute to the society around them because the only resource we have is our mind.
    But in Foyle: neither this nor this is happening, the great ones in the Torah as spiritual leaders are diminishing and dealing with the trifles of wiping their buttocks and picking their noses on Shabbat, and Nobel laureates are diminishing from among the people sitting in Zion.

    The picture of the situation is very bleak: a handful, the core anti-Zionists, who do not accept the state's laws and not even its rule, manage every year to bite off a larger part of the income/expenditure ledger and also manage, by force, to regulate the individual lives (from marriage through birth to the grave) of The other majority and all this because there are no goals here, for several good decades, and there is no leadership that acts on its mission, that is: accepting the burden of leadership as a result of presenting goals, the manner of their realization and the necessary means, and receiving the mandate from the majority to manage the country in accordance with these goals.

    What actually happens is that the person who took a seat (and I didn't omit the insults, they don't exist) does everything to preserve it from surrendering to minorities to removing responsibility or stripping the citizens of the country of responsibility.

    As long as we have a register of expenses and income and not a book of goals and the ways and means of their realization, we will continue to see minorities achieving, at the expense of the literal majority, whims that lead to poverty and poverty, and we will continue to howl at our fate until the elections come again and once again we will vote for the general on duty because he convinced us that he is capable of building infrastructure at night Wake up and give an answer to the problem created by those seeking the soul of this country, or he is the one who will increase the security budget and the readiness of the army for a type of war that passed away 4 decades ago in our region and almost 8 decades in the enlightened world.

    Eli Horvitz (the legendary CEO of Teva) once said that if he had submitted Teva's budget book to the state authorities as we citizens are presented with the national "budget book" (my compliments are not in the original) he would have been in prison for tax offenses and evasion of income. This is the face of things and as long as they are like this we will continue to manage our private lives according to the yoke of Torah imposed on us and we will continue to finance the poverty and enlightenment of a minority group - the ultra-orthodox and we will continue to pour money on an army preparing for a war that will no longer exist and we will continue to release our chosen customs from responsibility to their voters.

    To cool down all those who will think that she is another one who rages about the affairs of the ultra-Orthodox, so I take responsibility for these messes. I, and many of the patrons of this site, are guilty, why? Because when there are elections here, we choose the one who shouts the loudest, who is a famous general and has the skills to wake up at two in the morning and solve a problem of enemies against you, Israel, of a prime minister who searches Google for help to put out a huge fire, of a foreign minister who, when the country calls for help from the nations of the world to put out that fire, goes and plays He has tennis (at the taxpayer's expense) in a luxury hotel in Jerusalem, of an interior minister with fascist views who only cares about a certain sector of his voters and of a government that brings an entire population below the poverty line and below the clarification line (at a cost of 127 million NIS) just sit and pray and continue not to know the essence of the state, and of a government that allocates NIS 300 million to the firefighting system without setting goals through implementation, and of a party whose senior leader is convicted of committing serial acts of rape against women who he saw in their bodies and souls as worthless and instead of managing his public mission, managed his passions, and of another leader who was busy accepting Envelopes with questionable content. All of these you and I gave to our leaders and this is what we will get back.

    Yours sincerely,

    Menachem Luria.

    Reader on the site.

  2. Dear father, it seems that there is a lack of communication between us.
    I wasn't going to have another heated and useless argument.
    Nevertheless, a few points for clarification:
    A) I do not believe that there are several truths. There is one, but we will be sure what it is, only on the final day.

    b) In my opinion Avrach should be treated like an artist (who is not in demand). That is, not to receive any payment from one side (since it is not right to take money from people who do not believe in the value of Torah learning, in order to finance Torah learning),
    But don't condemn him who doesn't produce anything useful, on the other hand. If his wife agrees to finance his art, what does it matter to others?
    What does it matter so much if the man is the breadwinner and the woman is a housewife, or if the woman is the breadwinner and the man is barren?
    A little feminism (do you admit that there is almost no ultra-orthodox woman who does not have a bachelor's degree and makes a decent living?).

    c) I am not well versed in income security laws, but it is clear that only those who work and still do not manage to finance their home,
    may receive such help, assuming he is willing to pay taxes like any citizen.

    d) It is permissible to work and it is even a mitzvah (the well-known Rambam and chapters of Derbi Avot Derbi Natan chapter 11). What did I say you thought otherwise?

    e) The damage done by Shas and Gimel is greater than what Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Yaron Yadan do together. They do not represent Judaism. They spoiled her. Since when do politicians represent their public?

    f) As for the coercion: with the exception of transportation on Shabbat, for which justice is right with you, I am amazed to hear such things from a real person. Who prevents you from living with your wife in the same apartment? Whoever chose marriage according to Judaism, logic says that it should be done, according to Judaism.
    Why should every Gentile who wants to gather with us in the country be 'converted'? Why not just accept him as a citizen, without conversion?
    I happen to know closely how great the demand is to buy an apartment in the ultra-Orthodox community. People are looking for bigger apartments. Young couples do not care which end of the country they live. There are not enough apartments for rent and not for sale.
    You for some reason it happens to take over. I hope you understand this, but the problem is with you, you don't think fairly.
    Limited food? I get dizzy just from entering the supermarket. Not enough for you? Since when is food ideal? It is not called to say Ai! It's just called whining.

    e) Anyone who has been 'kidnapped' once to the other side, knows where the kidnapping and brainwashing is.

    A real man has to change his mind from time to time. After all, you grow up and look at things differently, know more, are able to think differently. Are you able to think today, even for a minute, from a different point of view?
    How can one live in peace with a woman without developing such maturity?
    Good night.

  3. Because of the concern for the fate of the country that I leave to my children and grandchildren, I believe that the ultra-Orthodox should work, because as soon as the pyramid is turned upside down and the number of idlers exceeds the number of workers, there will be no state, and the same goes for the number of evaders compared to the number of people serving in the army.
    In America, the ultra-Orthodox work and nothing happened to them, where is it written in your book that the ultra-Orthodox are not allowed to work in Israel?
    In addition to my opposition to religion as the god of authority in any field, anyone who thinks that muttering to the walls will get anything, I even more detest postmodernism - the attitude according to which everything is relative and depends on the worldview. The issue of work and the army is not a matter of worldview. Without work there will be no one to pay taxes and without an army there will be no one to protect us and it has already been said by whoever said that if the Arab countries lay down their weapons there will be no war if Israel lays down its weapons, there will be no Israel.
    And by that I meant that you are endangering us, including yourself by the way.
    And as for nationalists - if they have an audience, then there is a demand. Production is not just physical products. On the other hand, the produce of the rabbis has no economic value, and if there is, then it is negative (because of all the prohibitions). After all, if religion was a good commodity, you wouldn't go out of your way to impose it on us (winter time in the middle of summer, public transportation closed on Shabbat, extremely limited and expensive food due to kosher, determining who to marry and who not, who to rent houses to and where, taking over neighborhoods through a campaign aimed at eliminating the possibility that somewhere in the country there will be a secular neighborhood), abduction of children for what you call in 1984 parlance the return of the teshuva.
    In short, you see to it that Israel is destroyed from within, both economically and physically. And after that, you still have the audacity to say that anyone who reveals the truth is an instigator (as the Shas people claim, who have blackened the country for the last thirty years with more blackmail and more blackmail until very little is left of its character, and even the music has returned to repentance and when we say aye, straight away you shout that this is ultra-Orthodox hatred ).
    I am not a postmodernist and with someone stepping on my right to say no and my right to fight for renouncing him.

  4. Avi :
    a) If you determined that manufacturing is only an economic term,
    After all, you decreed the artists, the professors of philosophy and many more,
    Read non-producers.

    b) I am convinced that you believe that you are 'rescuing' the country,
    But you forgot that it is only according to one worldview.
    Do you have the ability to imagine what would happen if you were wrong?
    This is a figure that should be taken into account seriously [=not jokingly], honestly [=without touching]
    And out of humility. ((According to my dear and wise wife, a real man is: serious, honest and humble))

    c) I admit that I am not doing much to save the country. But weakens the state? what did I do?

    I wish you, with all my heart, to create a lot of good benefit, out of joy and love.

  5. Shlomo. Productivity is an economic term, and it has a quantitative measurement, so it cannot be relative to a worldview. And the only "damage" I do is to save the country I live in and am a proud citizen of. You, on the other hand, weaken it.

  6. My dear father
    Productivity and utility is a matter relative to the world view.
    If indeed the world was created from absolute zero by some clever laws that no one enacted,
    So the ultra-orthodox does not bring any benefit and maybe even harm.
    If indeed there was a genius legislator who knew how to enact some laws and let them 'run by themselves' and create the
    the universe in all its components,
    After all, you have no concept of the damage you are doing.

    I don't expect a response.
    A useful and happy day.

  7. The answer - there are many irritating things, it is not in its place. There are things that are under our control and there are things that are not, the claim that because there are things that are out of our control we will not deal with the things that can be controlled is evil. Parasitism is not a decree from heaven but a continuous failure of the Israeli education system and a shameful surrender to your terrorism. that today we pay the fruits of their bauches.. If they taught you core subjects, you would go to work in a productive job and not bother us. Anywhere else such harassment would have bordered on criminal.

  8. Yes Abi, you are right, my luck that it doesn't work for me, for me it was a great way to get a scholarship and meet new friends, which is always a good thing and nothing more.

    Many things in this world hurt my father, get over yourself you are no longer a child. You must be aware of world hunger and the people who die from it every day while you live relatively well, the Chinese who work like donkeys under substandard conditions for products that you end up buying and in this way finance this modern slavery. But what can you do that you can't fix the world, you can try to fix the things that are most painful and important and affect you and the people closest to you. But to be strict about equality?? Oh come on...

    We live in a predatory world, we are at the end of the day like all animals... The stronger lion is the one who will multiply the herd, you for your part will try to be the stronger lion, and with as little harm as possible to those who are important to you.

    You are indeed the sucker of the religious, just like the Chinese are your suckers... the comparison seems distorted to you, but try to think about it deeply 🙂

    And by the way, it's a shame you didn't address the other things I said.
    However, thanks for the quick response.
    Have a nice day.

  9. It is so heartbreaking that young people, instead of doing productive work, start a business whose entire purpose is to dissuade other young people from doing productive work. It happens in Neve Shanan (see Wikipedia, the settlement there is no accident), it happens in Ramat Aviv with the Messianic delusions of Chabad and it will continue to happen as long as the government invests taxpayers' money in these non-productive factors and I would add even anti-productive ones.

  10. I'm not ultra-orthodox (haha how common it is as an opening sentence).

    It happened to you that you prepared in advance for an important meeting, a heated discussion, a debate, you imagined the questions that would arise, the questions you would ask, the answers you would receive and what you would say about them... and so on... you tried to prepare in advance. (It is true that Roy brought up an imaginary dialogue here, not a real attempt to predict the minister's answers.)

    And why am I telling you all this... because Roy approached the debate with the minister feeling superior. He is right, he knows what is right, he is sure that he sees the full picture, and in this debate (if Yeshi were a normal person and answers fairly) he is going to win.

    All the insights and conclusions that arise from Roy's claims are already known to him.. He sees them well..
    But what about the other side Roy? You will be surprised...

    In my opinion, this invented dialogue is simply unfair. I agree with you that it is difficult to catch Yishai for a conversation, but you could have (and still can) have this conversation with an intelligent Haredi, and maybe maybe maybe, get answers, ones you didn't see... (there are some in my opinion).

    Very close to the Technion, in the Ziv neighborhood on Shalom Aleichem Street, there is a yeshiva with young people I know because I am in a scholarship project they run for students...
    Sit down with one of them over a cup of coffee, they will be happy to discuss the issue with you.

  11. Roy, I did not find any of your comments in the list of responses awaiting approval or in spam comments. There may have been a glitch the exact second you saved the comment.

  12. Together the tribes of Israel:
    It's bullshit.
    I have explained this on dozens of occasions.
    (eg here: )
    For me, it would have been better if the state had been established in Uganda and idiots like you had no opening here.
    The possibility here is one of the disastrous results of the fact that people have not completely abandoned religion.
    You add to this disaster by claiming that those who oppose the very existence of the state and evade any duty have a greater right to the state than those who risk their lives for it and support it with their wealth.

  13. The Land of Israel", as a Jewish concept with halachic-historical-cultural validity, is the deep justification for our being here as Jews. Without it, our national claim towards ourselves and others has no meaning. "The Land of Israel" is a Jewish symbol that our attachment to it defines our identity and giving it up like it is a national loss to know. "The State of Israel", on the other hand, is the modern organizational tool created by Zionism to embed within the ancient symbol "Land of Israel" essential values ​​such as: national independence, mutual guarantee, state sovereignty, honor (national, social and human), national responsibility, kibbutzim, National formation, democracy and multiculturalism.
    Barry Zimmerman (Givat Haim)

  14. M-L R. - I don't want to argue, but Zuriel in response 28 said that you are a dog, albeit in a logically crooked way: "However, in the Exodus from Egypt, you were a neighbor as it is written that it will not be cut." The complete scripture that was said in connection with the exodus from Egypt is: "And the children of Israel shall not bite a dog's tongue".

  15. I loved ♫If the passionate meetings are extinguished, what will the city's universities say?♫
    The rest is trite, but tastefully written.

    All the commenters, and I am among them, just want our name to appear next to yours during a rollover. In a not long time I will be able to say to my grandchildren and great-grandchildren with pride, "Do you know that I also corresponded with Roy Cezana?"

    And seriously, this time my impression is that the article is original. Sometimes you bring translations (which are beautifully written and with exact fidelity to the original - and you deserve full credit for that as well) but "forget" to mention this or bring a link to the original.

  16. Zuriel:
    You demonstrate such ignorance that you should really be sent to first grade before they start arguing with you.

  17. Tzuriel

    Shame on you.
    The blood of Jews (and not only) was spilled so that there would be a home for the Jews.
    Are you talking about lotteries?
    And what will you say about the ultra-Orthodox who did nothing for 2000 years to have a home for the Jewish people?
    Why didn't they fight 'Amalek' for the right to build their house on a plot of land promised to them by God?

  18. Mr. Rothschild
    The secularists who founded it tossed a coin, which made them turn to the UN, which also tossed a coin to decide that this was a good reason to bring the matter to a vote.
    And in exactly the same way man was created from the monkey. This is the kind of gibberish and nonsense you spew from the grooves of your tongue. After all, in the exodus from Egypt, you were a neighbor who was written not to make a mistake.

  19. Zuriel:
    Maybe your stupid majesty will learn to write without spelling errors?
    What does the initial relationship matter? The state was established by secularists and did not exist before the approval of the United Nations.
    All along the way that led to its establishment - the ultra-Orthodox opposed it and most of them do so to this day - either openly or covertly (after all, redemption should not be pushed back as every ultra-Orthodox knows).
    Of course, they also oppose a democratic state because of the contradiction between theocracy and democracy.

  20. Mr. Rothschild
    Perhaps Hod Stotach can explain where the initial connection of the Jewish citizens of the country to Israel originates.

  21. Zuriel:
    I allow you to laugh too.
    In general - I allow you to express all possible forms of stupidity.
    It's just a free country.

  22. Mr. Rothschild
    Your connection to the Land of Israel does not stem from the Bible, right?!
    In your opinion, it derives from the UN decision which is the result of an evolutionary coincidence?!
    I allow myself to chuckle at your philosophical meanderings.

  23. Together the tribes of Israel:
    You simply demonstrate perfectly the polarization/hate etc. that you supposedly come against.
    The fact that you served in the army does not change anything about the evasion of the parasites you protect when you attack the honest people.
    Maybe you didn't notice, but the article was not about you, but about the dodgers multiplying without recognition.
    On the other hand - with all the demagoguery and distortions of the facts - it may be that the presentation about the service in the army and the number of children is also a misrepresentation.
    It is very confusing when you mix facts with nonsense and there is always a danger that someone will conclude that the facts are also nonsense.

    And in relation to the grip in this country - of course you are rambling without realizing it.
    No reasonable person should accept the argument that because someone's imaginary friend promised him the land then it really belongs to him.
    I - unlike the ultra-Orthodox dodgers - have a very serious justification for my hold on the country and I have already written a lot about it, but you just annoy me, so I will not even try to direct you to the answers because it is clear to me that the facts are not of interest to you and all you are looking for is an outlet for hatred/ polarization, etc. that destroy every part good in your soul

  24. I appreciate your intelligence and that of the readers, obliged to the reading of my father - the editor of this wonderful site. In this correspondence, we are not dealing with exact sciences - it started with 'laws of mammoths' with extreme knowledge about a large sector, important and loyal to his country and homeland - the heritage and property of our ancestors - suddenly we are dealing with 'laws of souls' - and handing out certificates with grades on who is more worthy... I am not one of 'Hasidi' Eli Yishai and Shas - however, if we examine the link with the unrestrained spillover to the 'Hidan' website - which is full of refreshing and interesting updates, we probably have a 'common denominator'.

    We are here now, moments before sunset, today we will light the first candle of Hanukkah, give thanks and praise for the miracles and wonders that were done to our ancestors in those days - and we will wish for God's salvation and His wonders - at this time, our existence in this land is supernatural and miraculous. We will know how to respect and love (yes, it really is a mitzvah to love every person from Israel!!!) each other despite the difference and the difference, we will all continue to be updated on a beautiful, useful and interesting website and we will gain a 'new light on Zion Tair' until the 'land is full of opinion' and so on...

  25. Oh, and according to an article in 'Israel Hayom' from about two years ago, the rates of calling and calling help services for victims of sexual assault are higher among the ultra-Orthodox in relation to their number in the population. And this is what the ultra-Orthodox rabbi who conducted one of these services said.

    but what? When you don't complain to the police and shut down everything in the community, nobody goes to jail either. And only the victims continue to suffer.

  26. It's amazing what you can do with:
    1. Unrelated statistics.
    2. Complete falsification of data (over 70% of those required to enlist in Tel Aviv do enlist, according to IDF data).

  27. From an alienation that originates in: enmity/polarization/hate/jealousy/and mistakes, the productivity of the ultra-orthodox sector is doubted. With sweeping generalizations, grafting on community leaders, branded 'stigmatism' of: 'idlers'... the 'unpleasant-smells', reminiscent of even dark periods of history.

    The CBS and the CBS provide reflective data indicating that out of 22,788 security and criminal prisoners in the State of Israel, of which 9.068 are security, 794 are serving their sentences for murder, 551 for robbery, 1,563 for drugs, 2,322 for domestic violence, 1,212 for sexual offenses, 1,714 for misdemeanors Property, of which 555 are female prisoners - 2,7% of the prisoners belong to the sector of the 'Observant Division'... (That's right, it's a lot!!! - because the morality required of a believing Jew is tenfold and mandatory).

    Another point for thought, gentlemen: demography, the other minorities in Israel, the alarming phenomenon of infiltration. Compared to them: unemployment in Or Akiva and Ma'alot, in Yeruchem, Dimona and Be'er Sheva - cities where the rate of ultra-Orthodox is zero... and above all this - some alarming data must be remembered and internalized: 1) Most high school students and those required to be drafted in Tel Aviv - avoid. 2) How many very mature students do you know who postponed their recruitment until the end of their studies.

    With all due respect, alienation brings enmity, hatred and resentment - I will not answer: 'Tul Cora from your eyes' - because this is my country and my homeland - I love every person regardless of who they are and according to their beliefs and outlook on life, you should understand that an 'EDI card' is still not a 'certificate of honesty' And an ultra-Orthodox person who is a yeshiva member is neither an idler nor a needy person...

  28. I do not doubt the ability of the ultra-Orthodox to volunteer. I'm just saying that it shouldn't come at the expense of real work that their rabbis don't allow and certainly not instead of military service for the defense of the country they live in (and from).
    What's more, from a quantitative point of view, the volunteers are idle in the sixty compared to what you call those who stupefy themselves in the Torah tent, and we simply say they are idle. Many of them would be happy to work and some do find refuge in volunteering. If everyone works, there will be fewer people in need of favors.

  29. My father's first comment is accepted! accept my apologies.

    The second comment clearly indicates alienation and that you are not aware of the power of the sector, you make sweeping generalizations, fed by hostile media. I don't know who lives here thanks to whom!

    For your information, it was not by accident that I surfed the Hayadan - I am busy with my head and shoulders and my occupation at the 'cutting edge' of science, if and when you find out about the 'work of life' in which I and my shoulders are busy - you will be left speechless and amazed.

    In conclusion and reconciliation, I am ready to challenge and dedicate a day in my busy diaries, to present to you and your colleagues some enterprises and individuals who, thanks to their work and their work in Tsina, are far from the spotlight and public awareness - they do not sign an EDI card, they donate their milk and blood - their eyes and minds - for the protection of the people of Israel, its security and health !!!
    you are welcome…

  30. To respond together the tribes of Israel.
    First of all, on the science website it is customary to respond politely, even if you disagree with the author's opinion.
    Secondly, thanks to people like Roi you can live, because they promote the economy that ultimately allows the ultra-orthodox sector to be carried on its back, but this sector thinks it can ignore the hardships of those who carry it on its back and continue to burden it until we all fall together, and the right of Those who feel this resent it.

  31. 1. The respondent belongs to the ultra-orthodox sector and is the father of a family blessed with children. 2. Of your shoes above your feet, here: Deputy Mil. IDF casualty informant
    3. We live in Israel, because this is the land promised to our ancestors - in the covenant between the Batirs, otherwise - you and your like have no right to hold and settle in this land.
    4. The Weizmann Institute, the Technion, Tel Aviv University - are they not philanthropic institutions? What is the unbridled fallout, fueling hatred and polarization?!
    5. The Jewish Halacha determines the time of death for me - think now that because ZAKA and MDA and Tzela volunteers and the philanthropic institutions that often poke your eyes - will stop treating those who hold an Edi card?! Stop peeing outside the pot!!!

  32. Together the tribes of Israel:
    Is the fact that some ultra-Orthodox operate philanthropic institutions, the majority of whose donors are actually secular, supposed to qualify the creep of evasion and parasitism?
    By the way, how many ultra-Orthodox do you think signed an Edi card?

  33. Roi Cezana, and the editor of 'Hidan' with the Honorable President of the Weizmann Institute, you are invited to visit the 'Public Umbilical Cord Blood Repository - in your blood' Bone marrow with a modern technique, the hand is still tilted to the many and good ones from the ultra-Orthodox community who do their work faithfully for the common good, with a humane universality worthy of note - for the glory of the people who dwell in Zion and for all the inhabitants of the world who are in need.

    Wise men, be careful with your words!!!

  34. As long as it doesn't turn out in the end that those young people who go to work "learn it quickly" and perform it better
    And with more faith than the seculars who just come to do their hours.

    Then the seculars will find themselves competing for jobs with the ultra-orthodox.
    Or maybe they'll start having kids and try to change the demographics.

  35. Moshe,

    I haven't joked about politics for a long time. You are welcome to file a defamation lawsuit against me, but you should be prepared to pay the court costs.


  36. Moshe:
    Would you like to identify yourself?
    This is important in case someone wants to sue you for intimidation and threats.

  37. Roy Cezana
    When they sue you for 10 million NIS for defamation, you will continue to laugh even then.

  38. Michael
    My father posted an article here today that is very related to the matter and I think there is a great opportunity for this.
    See from "Dina Haunted by Demons" - the "Courage of Amsalem"

  39. Obviously that's not true!

    In connection with the tuition fee refund:
    You will not be able to enact a law that forbids the people from leaving the country before they have paid for their studies and they will not report to anyone if they go on a trip or intend to leave.

    Regarding the heifers:
    What prevents the yeshiva leaders from wanting the money today? Something to do with students? The flaw in the law is in a completely different place and everyone knows what that place is.

    If you had tried to understand my intention regarding the income tax, you would have understood that a student who increases his income following his studies also pays more income tax and therefore ultimately returns more to society than the investment in his studies.

  40. Whoever wants to leave the country should pay his debt and fly wherever he wants.
    Income tax will be paid as usual, in addition the tuition fee will be deducted.
    The owners of the yeshiva will very much want their students to go to college so that afterwards they can return with high salaries and finance the yeshiva and the owners of the yeshiva, after all, everything revolves around money in the end...think about how much money the yeshiva will earn from their students. In meetings and in addition they contribute to the state.

  41. Variations on this logical idea have been discussed many times.
    I don't have a reference at the moment, but I remember it mainly from living room conversations.
    There are of course quite a few difficulties in its implementation if you think of someone who studies in Israel and then comes down.
    On the other hand, to some extent it can be argued that this is already happening - simply through the income tax.

    Besides - of course this does not solve the problem of the Haredim's useless studies.

  42. I wanted to share an idea with you, I don't know if it's possible to do so, but with a little pressure it can come true...
    Every student who registers for studies signs a promissory note that he undertakes to pay the studies only after he has finished them, received a certificate and started working.
    The state will start deducting from this person's salary every month the school fees he owes to the state and peace be upon Israel.
    This way students will be able to study without pressure and will be more successful, poor people will also be able to study and then we will be able to raise the standard of living in Israel by unprecedented percentages, the ultra-Orthodox will also study and then go to work afterwards in order to pay their debt to the state and this is how we will solve all the stupid problems that we are fighting for until the end one against the other.
    You are welcome to come up with ideas for starting the process or of course oppose it (meaning me) and put me in the category of delusional and daydreamers...

  43. This is the thought of every reasonable person... except that in our government, logic does not rule, it is the lust for power and money, the combines, the schemes and the pigs.
    But I don't think that will change soon.
    Commenter 1 I don't really agree with you, I guess the majority of the secular public would like Haredim who work and don't live on their own.

  44. Excerpt from a letter I sent in this regard to the Gabai committee:

    The comparison between abrachs and students is artificial and tiresome.
    Students study for a limited period of time - as much as it takes them to practice their chosen profession.
    They study material that later in their lives they will use for the needs of productive work that they will engage in.
    It is not for nothing that the term "eternal student" has become an example and a joke.

    The barbarians, on the other hand, study all their lives material that at no point will serve them for the needs of productive work.
    "I will live forever" is actually the norm there.

    Investing in the development of students' knowledge is an investment that bears fruit in the end.
    The investment in the development of the pits of the Habarach carries only the basis for further investments.

  45. : )
    The situation is definitely grim.
    From this side it seems that the seculars prefer that the ultra-Orthodox stay in the Kollelim and not go out to work on the streets of Tel Aviv and Herzliya. Otherwise there is no logical and reasonable explanation. Can a minority of ultra-Orthodox politicians influence the entire Knesset? After all, it's clear that it will suck your finger.

    The seculars have to hate someone.

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