The Bible - no findings in the field - reader comments

In the period before the talkbacks, we had to wait a week until letters to the editor were collected, some of them justified the article and others argued against it

The Bible did not happen, and Israel is not holy ("the land"
4 / 11 / 99)
The Halacha rulings for the sanctity of the Land of Israel were ruled for political reasons

Yossi Mart

Prof. Ze'ev Herzog's article published in the "Haaretz" supplement (October 29.10) casts doubt on the fact that the biblical stories related to the Exodus from Egypt, the conquest of the Land of Israel and other events did happen. These doubts are now joined by a study of myth and reality in the story of the flood, by the American geologists William Ryan Walter Pittman. The two recently published a book called "Noah's Flood" in which they describe the flooding of settlement sites on the shores of the Black Sea at the end of the Neolithic period. The research reveals that the Black Sea was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea since the last Ice Age (about 25 years ago) until about 7,500 years ago. Its level was about 100 meters lower than the Mediterranean Sea, and the Bosphorus straits were blocked. The great rivers flowing into the Black Sea today also flowed, and prosperous agricultural and cultural areas lived in their mouths.

However, an earthquake 7,500 years ago split the Bosporus Straits, and the level of the Black Sea rose rapidly. Ryan and Pitman assume that the sea invaded the Delta at a rate of about 15 km per day. At such a fast rate, escaping from the water was difficult, and most of the inhabitants drowned. In Mesopotamia, the story became the flood stories told in the myth of Gilgamesh and Athanasius, and from there the story probably passed to the story of the flood in the Bible. Thus, a natural disaster that befell a population struck by fate, was turned by the clergy into proof of the existence of a jealous and vengeful God.

Prof. Herzog's article also shows that the biblical stories are not supported by archaeological evidence. It is possible that there were raids by nomadic tribes from the desert into the seed regions of Israel at the end of the Late Bronze Age, but from then until the conquest of the land by Joshua guided by Heaven, the road is long.

These facts have not only scientific importance, but also a fascinating political significance: this week will mark the fourth anniversary of Yitzhak Rabin's murder, but it seems that the leadership has forgotten the connection between Yigal Amir's action and the rulings of the Halacha on the sweeping sanctity of the Land of Israel. The leading rabbis, including the former chief rabbi, Rabbi Avraham Shapira, and the leader of the Israel Defense Forces, Rabbi Haim Druckman, publicly ruled about five years ago that it is strictly forbidden to evict Jewish settlements from the land of Israel.

The basis for this firm halachic law, and for the rabbis' calls to the IDF soldiers not to evacuate settlements and military bases, is a series of categorical rulings by the great rabbis, including the Rambam and the Ramban, on the sanctity of the Land of Israel. These rabbis relied on the biblical story.

For nearly 800 years, generations of rabbis have provided various excuses as to why the Land of the Chosen should not be settled. The Ramban's rulings on the sanctity of the land did not stand up to the eyes of many rabbis in Europe after the First World War, who ordered their followers not to immigrate to Israel. Therefore, it is doubtful whether the Yeshiva in Eretz Israel is based on Jewish laws. This doubt was not resolved even with the rulings of the rabbis On the other hand, the rabbis were supposed to know that the traditional basis of the Halacha in question is weak, and therefore there is reason to assume that it was political or messianic motives that led to this fateful ruling.

All the verses are known about the divine promise to our ancestors and the promise to Moses our rabbi to give the Land of Israel to the people of Israel. Therefore, the scientific research, which questions the historical reliability of the Bible in the context of the settlement of the tribes of Israel, undermines the historical basis of the strict prohibition to give the land of Israel to strangers.

Now it becomes clear how much the halachic rulings that sanctified the land of Israel contributed, even if indirectly, to the murder of Yitzhak Rabin. We remember the murder of Gedaliah ben Ahikam and the circumstances surrounding it for more than 2,500 years. I hope that we will discover such a memory also in connection with Rabin's murder.

Prof. Mert teaches geology at Haifa University

Published in "Haaretz" on 04/11/1999

Readers' responses ("Mosaf Ha'aretz" 4/11/99)
If there was no occupation

As an educated Israeli, free in his opinions, I do not have to believe in the splitting of the Red Sea, in the collapse of the walls of Jericho (if they were or were not) to the sound of the trumpets of Yehoshua ben Nun, or in the stillness of the sun at his command in Gibeon in order to see the Bible as a masterpiece that instilled in humanity values ​​of morality and social justice, testimonies The historical connection between the people of Israel and the Land of Israel is indisputable. And if, according to Prof. Ze'ev Herzog, the people of Israel did not leave Egypt and did not conquer the land from its inhabitants, but if it formed and established a state in it, then these historical facts strengthen the connection between the people of Israel and the Land. Israel.

It doesn't bother me as much if Gezer had a wall of the poor, if Hazor was only fortified in an area of ​​30 dunams, and if the United Kingdom in the days of David and Solomon was not an "empire" that went beyond the borders of the Land of Israel. It is possible that the Bible exaggerates these issues. Is there a national history of antiquity that does not contain exaggeration?

And finally, wonder of wonders, "the historical existence of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah can be recognized beginning in the ninth century BC," writes the professor. And since kingdoms do not descend from the sky, nor was there a sudden conquest, it is permissible to assume that there was a process of formation of a people in its homeland, and the Jewish people, or the people of Israel, was the dominant people in the Land of Israel already 3,000 years ago. This modest fact does not justify flashy headlines and an article whose content tries to downplay, according to the best fashion, the historical value of the Land of Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people.

Major (res.) Shlomo Aral, Haifa

If there was no extermination

Prof. Ze'ev Herzog presents to the public the conclusions of the archaeological research regarding the reliability of the biblical description regarding the history of the people of Israel. You can accept his conclusions or reject them, but it is completely unnecessary, in my opinion, to go on to personally attack the author of the article. This is how Yosef Lapid behaved, when, having no knowledge of archeology, he rejected Herzog's conclusions outright, and ended by saying "So why is Prof. Herzog confusing the mind?" This is also how Prof. Yosef Ben Shlomo behaved, when he accused Herzog of narrow-mindedness.

It seems that these reactions indicate the psychological difficulty of the public, to which Prof. Herzog is referring, to deal with the appeal to the biblical historiography, which is perceived as a threat to our national identity. At the same time, when I first became aware during my studies of the various schools of thought regarding settlement in New Israel, and first and foremost the school of quiet and gradual penetration, I felt, among other things, relief. After all, if this theory is correct (as well as the sociological theory), then our settlement in Israel did not involve the destruction of seven nations, a thought that is too difficult for me to bear.

Dr. Yael Shemesh
Ramat Gan

Shattering the illusion

At first reading it seems that Prof. Ze'ev Herzog did indeed "succeed" in delivering a death blow to the religious Jewish worldview. However, after reading and giving it a second thought, it seems that Hachatat lies precisely at the threshold of the secular worldview, the one that saw the stories of the ancestors as legends, but sought to establish our right to the land from a historical point of view.

It was Prof. Yeshayahu Leibovitz who claimed and repeated and claimed that the Holy One, blessed be He, did not descend on Mount Sinai in order to hand over a history book to the people of Israel. That's what historians are for. These or other opinions about the "correctness" of the information contained in the Bible do not undermine the religious faith. On the other hand, the results of the archaeological research (if indeed they are reliable) do express the shattering of the illusion of the assumption that the Bible will be the basis and basis for our "right" to the land, From a historical point of view. It is no secret that today the "book of books" is becoming meaningless to a growing part of the Israeli and secular youth, for whom the Bible is nothing but another "lousy subject" for the matriculation exam, and this too is probably going to be canceled under the baton of Education Minister Yossi Sharid.
Michael Shesher
Jerusalem

reading signs

Prof. Zeev Herzog's article obscures the fact that archeology is a science concerned with reading signs, in this case signs of material culture. These signs are not unequivocal at all, and they can be read and interpreted in different ways, and there is no one way and one answer that came down "as a Sinaitic Torah".

The unequivocal statement at the beginning of the article, "It is clear that the people of Israel did not stay in Egypt", proves his one-dimensionality. It is very difficult to know if "Israel" or "proto-Israel" actually stayed in Egypt, for two main reasons: one, it can be assumed that almost all the administrative material that was related to northern Egypt was probably lost forever. In Fioremses, that is the biblical "Ramses", a huge city in the east of the delta, there were certainly large archives, however, due to the extreme wet conditions in the area, it is most likely that no text that was written on stone was preserved there. Since all Egyptian administrative material was written on papyrus or in ink on ostracon (or wooden tablets), it can be assumed that these texts were not preserved.

Secondly, the Egyptian author had at his disposal a number of fixed and clear terms for the linguistic description of "people from the area of ​​Syria and Israel". It is possible that there was no need or interest on his part to specify their exact ethnic characteristics. In light of what has been said above, it is surprising that Herzog mentions, almost in passing, the most important step in locating a people Israel in the vicinity of Eretz Yisrael is a stele from Marnpetah. In the section describing the conquest of cities in Eussia, the author deviates from the usual conventions and takes pains to write the name Israel with great precision, with additional hieroglyphs that define it as an ethnic or social group with a distinct and distinct identity.

Dr. Orly Goldusser
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

Sensational title

Prof. Ze'ev Herzog's article does challenge the historical data that emerges from the Bible up to the tenth century BC and at all, but on the other hand he does not deny the fact that from the ninth century BC onwards we stand on much more solid historical ground, backed by rich archaeological findings and documents Extrabiblical histories.
This is even highlighted at the end of the article.

Since the biblical period ends no earlier than 550 years later, with the Hellenistic conquest of Palestine, the headline published on the front page of "Haaretz" (October 28.10) - "Archaeologists agree: the biblical period never existed" is, at best, a display of ignorance accompanied by misunderstanding The so-called, and in the worst case, outrageous provocation.

A newspaper editor must show responsibility even in headlines intended to promote articles he publishes. Many readers of the newspaper, who are not familiar with the intricacies of historical research in our time, or who have not read Prof. Herzog's article in its entirety, may actually remember the erroneous sensational headline, and not what was published in his own article.

Raz Mostigman
Tel Aviv University

The Bible as literature

As a student of the biblical department at the Hebrew University in the 1960s, I would like to confirm that a significant part of the revelations published in Prof. Ze'ev Herzog's interesting article has been known for many years to people studying the study of the Bible. As a Bible teacher in an elementary school for nearly ten years, I would like to point out that in secular schools the Bible is not taught as history, but partly as literature and partly as a work of Jewish culture, with religious, moral and national attitudes.

I am puzzled by the reactions of the cancellation of the article from the people of Israel, and I sympathize with the position of Yitzhak ben Aharon, who claims that the thesis in the article has no significance regarding our right to the land. Also according to Prof. Herzog there is evidence of the existence of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah starting from the ninth century BC; Isn't this enough to establish "our right to the land", especially when these data are added to the undisputed existence of the state in the days of the Second Temple.

Dr. Yona Altshuler
Jerusalem

extreme positions

Prof. Ze'ev Herzog's article presented extreme positions on the subject
An academic debate has been going on for years: the historical reliability of the text
The Bible concerning the periods from the beginning of Israel to the days of David's kingdom
And Solomon. Alongside the minimalist and even nihilistic views on this subject, there are
Quite a few researchers believe that the biblical text did go through incarnations
Many until it was formed in its final form, but it can be found alongside
Exaggerations and stories with a purely literary tone are also ancient traditions
Many, including pieces of poetry, citation of ancient documents and historical information
authentic.

In presenting the archeological research as validating the extremist opinions of Shuli
The biblical history of these periods is due to distortion and oversimplification.
Thus, for example, according to many researchers, the archaeological data on
The period of the judges and the beginning of the monarchy do not cancel the history of
These periods, but put it in a correct realistic perspective.
On the one hand, archeology made it possible to verify many of the data presented
in the Bible about those periods, and on the other hand to refute other data.

The ranting headlines that accompanied the article damage the image of
Israeli archaeological research, both in Israel and abroad. They are also made
lead to misuse of archeology for non-scientific purposes. Too bad
Prof. Herzog, an excellent archaeologist in his own right, drifted into an extreme presentation
of such a controversial subject, above the press pages of Idan
The rating.
Prof. Amichai Mazar
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

That's how you don't find a wall

There is something quite ridiculous in Prof. Zeev Herzog's conclusions, especially in light of this
The fact that these are events that happened 4,000-3,000 years ago in the region
who has been through so many ups and downs. Jericho, for example, has been through countless times
Conquests and it is not impossible that some of the conquerors shaved the city
to its basics. So what kind of wall exactly does Prof. Herzog expect to find? him
The same applies to documents from that period. in the many wars that were in the region
Many documents disappeared/burned/destroyed. The modern equivalent, the abbreviation
3,000 years of war for a few minutes, is the nuclear weapon. Let's say for a moment
that the Allies would destroy Germany and Central Europe with nuclear weapons
In 1944 there was no trace left of the extermination camps and those documents
Germans who referred to the extermination process. Most historians were
It is announced today, 55 years later, that there was no holocaust and that it was an invention of
The State of Israel is designed to promote social and political goals.
Jacob Fedhzor
Kochav Yair

Blind archaeology

Most of the things that Prof. Ze'ev Herzog brings to the public's attention are acceptable
by anyone who is aware of the nature of the archaeological find. open question
Is the provocative nature and sometimes one-sided interpretation of
His article helps or hinders the dissemination of the findings in the public consciousness.

A striking example (and not the only one) of this is the question of the United Kingdom,
which is today at the center of the scientific debate. The existence of the kingdom of David and Solomon
(And Shaul) is not in doubt in my opinion, even if her image is inflated. The appearance of
Court writers and chroniclers, the echoes of whose records found expression in the compilation
The later books of the Bible put the period on a historical basis
More real than its predecessors. The question arises what was its nature. turns out
that similar to other "archaic kingdoms", the beginning of whose formation is known from
Anthropology had not yet developed at the beginning of the Israeli monarchy
monumental. Jerusalem was indeed nothing more than a "king's fortress"
("Citadel of Zion"), a well-known archaeological and historical model, which probably included
From Solomon's time also a temple complex (the approximate location of which is under the Temple Mount
does not allow digging).

It should be noted, however, that such "post-tribal" primary kingdoms
Can have territorial space and impressive military achievements.
Don't forget the common fact that archeology is blind
In the absence of a material finding. Famous examples of this are empires
Great and short-lived tribalism and statehood, like that of Attila in Europe
In the 5th century or that of Shaka in South Africa in the 19th century that are recorded
Unquestionably historical but lacking a real archaeological find.
Prof. Ezer Gat
Tel aviv university

A test of reliability

Prof. Herzog points to a contradiction that worries every Bible lover: the findings
The archaeological so far do not match the text. When they dug into the layer
The pottery corresponded to 1350 BC according to the Egyptian dating, no
Evidence of settlement and occupation was found, and when they dug in Jerusalem in a clay layer
Dated to 950 BC according to this method, no building remains were seen
The splendor of the kingdom of David and Solomon. From this concealment it can be concluded that the authors of the Bible
Fantasy regardless of reality. But to the same extent it can be concluded that dating
The Egyptian strata is wrong, while the Bible is reliable.

Yehoshua Etzion, in his book "The Lost Bible" (Schoken Publishing, 1992), presents
Many findings that undermine the reliability of the accepted Egyptian dating on
Prof. Herzog's colleagues. Regarding the scientific issue, it is possible that Etzion
Right, and the Bible is more reliable than the Egyptian strata dating.

Prof. Herzog is right when he states that ideological considerations
Distorting the scientific debate on this matter. It is better to remember that a scientific decision
Between the reliability of the Bible and the reliability of the dating of the archaeological layers is not
You will carve out the fate of the State of Israel.
Dr. Hanan Kostaf
Ramat Hasharon

Evidence from the field

Prof. Ze'ev Herzog came to refute the credibility of the Bible as a source
historical, but he actually proved that "the Bible is a historical document,
which went through several stages of editing, but fundamentally reflects the ancient reality,"
According to Albright. Thus, for example, Prof. Herzog confirms that the name Israel "is mentioned
As a tribe (without territory) in an Egyptian inscription from the days of Maranpetah" the testimony
The oldest extra-biblical attributing to our ancestors from 3,300 years ago
the collective name "Israel".

We know Marnpetah as the successor of Ramses II, who ordered the city to be built
Ramses. The name of the city was erased and changed 200 years later and is no longer remembered.
That is, the testimony mentioned in the Bible about the construction of the cities of Pithom and Ramses could
to be given only in the first 200 years after Egypt was enslaved; late
They could no longer call the city by its original name. The biblical story indicates
Israel after the exodus from Egypt as a wandering nation, in the desert and the Negev. tombstone
Marnfatah refers to Israel, according to Herzog's own formulation, as a "tribe
Without territory." It is hard to imagine a greater match between the two
The biblical testimony to the "from the field", the archaeological testimony.
Dr. Avraham Wolfenson
Haifa

Almost certain proof

Ze'ev Herzog's words are full of contradictions: on the one hand, he claims that
There was no conquest of the land, and on the other hand he admits that "the archaeological find
Verification of an important fact: at the beginning of the Iron Age, in the phase associated with
In the 'Settlement Period', hundreds were founded in the central mountain areas of the Land of Israel
Small settlements." Alongside his claim, "It seems to me that today there are no more supporters
to the biblical model of military occupation", appeared as part of Prof.
Adam Zartal, who dedicated his life's work to mapping Samaria, and claims that
Behar Ebal found "almost certain proof that the story of entering the land is very
Amin". That is: not only are there supporters of this model, but the main supporter
Therefore, he is the only person who excavated the area for eight years.

It is appropriate that a newspaper like "Haaretz", which was one of the cornerstones of the construction
The renewed Zionism in the State of Israel will also give a central place to views such as
of Adam Zertal, who corroborates the Bible stories based on findings
archaeology, and will not give a platform only to a certain current in the academy, which
who claim that it will lead to the suicide of Zionism.
Yaakov Shapira
ore

Samson Higar

Of all the reactions to Prof. Ze'ev Herzog's revelations, I was pleased with his response
of MK Yosef (Tommy) Lapid. The great secularist, spokesman for the Enlightenment
From Spinoza to Ephraim Kishon, who never misses an opportunity to get stuck
In the ultra-Orthodox who "darken" his teeth of enlightenment, he actually penetrates
From the sensational revelation: the juicy stories are just juicy stories.
Oh, enlightenment and ignorance and holy hypocrisy, oh, tartif in tartar sauce.

As for other Bible-as-history lovers, they better go and ask for forgiveness
Precisely from the ultra-orthodox Jews, because their ethos was at least not acquired
Through the English and German Protestants, who turned the Bible
to a "founding historical text". Talmudic Judaism, at least, understood that faith
Religiously, it is forbidden to base stories about giants in Kiryat Arba,
Or the overthrow of an entire fortress by one Hebrew hero. This is what is said in the Talmud
Samson the hero: "Samson girded with both legs" (Suta, 10). and David
the king? "Until midnight he would doze like a horse. From then on he would get stronger
Kari" to study Torah, of course (Barchot page 3).

Why is it important to mention the Jewish irony here? also because
that the real reckoning with the Bible-as-history has only just begun.
Yitzhak Laur
Hod Hasharon

The right is not violated

Prof. Ze'ev Herzog is not satisfied that the archaeological findings
Those who deny the truth of the biblical stories do not penetrate consciousness
the public He believes that the Israeli public feels a threat to its national identity
and about his "right to the land" and therefore he ignores the new revelations. I am
A completely secular Israeli and I do not feel any threat to my national identity
from the archaeological findings described in his article. He agrees that there were
Hebrew kingdoms, in Judea and Samaria; He agrees that the Jews of
The Kingdom of Judah wrote the Bible in the Hebrew language and it does not dispute
The fact of the existence of the second house.

My national identity is not anchored in the religion of Israel but in the history of the nation
who began his journey in this country about 3,000 years ago. As a descendant of this people
I have a historical right to the land regardless of whether there was an exodus from Egypt
or not. In addition, the Bible is a literary and philosophical work
A standard that was written in the Hebrew language and shaped the image of the Jewish people,
preserved his language and allowed his return to his homeland after two thousand years
exile. Therefore the place of the Bible in the Jewish bookcase is guaranteed, no
Any connection whether it is a historical document or a fairy tale book.
Prof. Yaakov Amir
Netanya

Still an empire

With a hint of Timahon, I read Ze'ev Herzog's article, which, to my dismay,
I am not an academic, there is nothing new about it. Indeed, archeology has proven
For a long time, a small and unimportant kingdom existed in the Land of Israel. but
Israel had one and only one thing that was not its own and is not its own in any culture
Otherwise: the great prophets, and prophecy in general. From a cultural point of view,
Israel has been an empire for 2,500 years and the culture of the West cannot be described
Without the contribution of the prophets, on their moral and justice theory. Against
The parchment scrolls of the book of Isaiah, the findings of archeology are like broken pottery.
Amos Kenan
Tel Aviv

Parting is hard

I read Prof. Zeev Herzog's article with a heavy feeling of anguish. indeed
Parting from the stories of the Bible is difficult even for the non-believing person. However, there isn't
There is room for Prof. Herzog's accusations regarding the company's neglect
the Israeli from the findings and from the conclusions arising from them. Rather, they will present
The archaeologists will present their findings in the exhibition, or alternatively they will gather the facts
and the theories, on which there is agreement, in a book aimed at the general public. nothing
expect a serious discussion (not to mention the internalization of "reality"
the historical presented by Herzog) on ​​the part of Israeli society, without being presented
She has all the facts in front of her.
Nir Arieli
Jerusalem

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